Well, I was out running trails all weekend. First up was leading a group of guys back to the Lost World. I had been there 3 times with my 33 x 15.50 SX's, once with my old 32 x 11.50 BFG's. This is a good run to test tires, first part is rutted, washboard roads, next comes two steep, loose hills, then a non-stop rockcrawl and we finished it off by climbing the last waterfall. For those who didn't know, I borrowed a set of 35 x 13.50 bias ply Baja Claws to try out a larger tire on my Zuk. The tires I was considering were the 35 x 12.50 MTR or a 35 x 12.50 TSL.

First the washboard road. On Monday I am going out to the junk yards to look for a Cadillac emblem. The ride was so smooth, I was doing 50 down Castle Hot Springs Rd. and could feel nothing. I attribute this in part to the Claws bigger sidewall. For reference I had the Claws at 7psi, and usually run the SX's at 7psi.

Hillclimbs. There are two steep hills on the shortcut to the Lost World. I spun my SX's on both the last time. The Claws seem really at home in the loose stuff, they didn't break loose once on either hill.

By the time we got into the rocks I was paying even more attention to the tires. I wanted to find out which situations caused them to slip. The SX's would slip if I didn't put enough tire onto the rocks (like trying to run along the edge of a rock). Also, on the last waterfall I had so little traction I was spinning all four tires and despite having the wheel turned the Zuk wouldn't move to that direction. It took a little push on the front fender and then from behind to get the SX's to hook up. So I tried running the edge of the Claws along rocks, hitting them head on, running just the rear tire up stuff, etc. The Claws didn't slip once, not once (yeah, I couldn't believe it either :eek:). The waterfall was the kicker. I took the line right up the middle, got into position on the vertical face and eased the clutch out and went right up. That was a cool feeling. I still can't believe how well these tires hooked up in the rocks.

On the way out I tried the hills in 2 hi, something I couldn't do with the SX's without a lot of momentum. The claws never slipped, again impressing me.

Sunday we scouted out a new area looking for potential trails (found a killer wash). The terrain was mainly old mining roads, some of them were almost impossible to see. The claws did awesome again, I even climbed some stuff that my friend Ron had to put it in 4 lo to climb (he was running MTR's). On the way out we tried taking a shortcut down a wash, we were both doing 30-50mph for about 5 miles, nonstop sand and small ruts. The tires did awesome, absorbing bumps and holding the corners. I felt like I was in a sports car :D

I wasn't sure what to think when I borrowed these tires. I read a lot of negative stuff about them so I wasn;t expecting much, but as you can see I am impressed, enough so that I am looking for some used ones asap. The ride and traction are way better than my SX's. The one negative I can see is they are very short tires for a 35. I measured the claws at a hair over 33" tall, plenty of clearance for me but a longer rig should look to a bigger size.

Last thing, the tread compound is really soft. We found some Samurai sized culverts under this aqueduct and backed up into them for a picture, the Claws were leaving black marks everywhere on that concrete, my friends MTR's left nothing.

It's nice to hear good things about Baja Claws for a change. :D

Still looking for 38/12.50/15s that handle ok on the road, great offroad, and don't cost too much....Wet dream?:flipoff2:

That is the first good report that I have ever heard about the Claws, so there better than the Sx's? In you opinion...

Originally posted by fatkid
That is the first good report that I have ever heard about the Claws, so there better than the Sx's? In you opinion...

Better than my 33 x 15.50's on a Zuk. Bottom line seems to be they flex a lot more, and if you ever look at a 15.50 swamper on a 15x10" rim you'll see there isn't much sidewall to flex to start with. I was thinking some more about the comparison, basically wether or not the tread design may be better for the rocks than the SX design. On the Chaos run my SX's just weren't hooking up on the waterfalls, at first I thought I might not have enough contact pressure or that my tread wasn't deep enough (1/4" left). Both Jack and Pat had 12.50 SX's with more tread than mine but they had problems in the same spot and we ended up pushing to get them moving again (like we had to for me).

http://www.azrockcrawler.com/_images/2002/2-02chaos/DSCN9149.JPG

So I am leaning towards the opinion that the Claw tread design may work better in the rocks than the SX tread design (softer rubber may also be a factor). I was going to put my SX's on for this weeks trip to The Asylum (http://www.azrockcrawler.com/_images/2001/11-01nextlevel/11-01nextlevel.html) , but now I think I'lll run the Claws. My whole attitude of what line to take changed about halfway thru the Lost World, I was no longer thinking "If I can get the tire to hold I can take this line....", instead I was just pointing it and planning the next obstacle without giving a thought to the tires.

I'd really love to run a set of MTR's thru the Lost World for another comparison. Several of the Jeeps had MTR's and they did ok, they lost traction on the loose stuff and didn't seem to hold the rocks as well but I can't say what they were running for air pressure and they were on a heavier vehicle.

Originally posted by Yota_san
It's nice to hear good things about Baja Claws for a change. :D

I was surprised at their performance. They weren't even on my list of tires preferences for my next upgrade, I really just borrowed them to see how my gearing would be affected. Since they are shorter than a true 35" tire the gearing felt fine if anyone was wondering.

Almost forgot, after Sat. I went looking for Claw related info on the web. Not much out there, I wonder if it's due to the price? Anyway here's the only write up I found : rockcrawler.com (http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/mt_claw35bias/index.htm) .

Your comparison is alittle biased. The SX's you run are well past their prime. Also the big fatties don't always hook up to well. The first waterfall on Chaos gave me no troubles with traction, but Pat had to winch. We both have the same tires. The second falls was a spin fest for all.
SX's, in my opinion, need really low pressure to flex. With the low pressure you need beadlocks. The lightweight of the Zuk may not help with the flexing either.
Anyways, run what makes you happy.

Originally posted by JackA
Your comparison is alittle biased. The SX's you run are well past their prime. Also the big fatties don't always hook up to well. The first waterfall on Chaos gave me no troubles with traction, but Pat had to winch. We both have the same tires. The second falls was a spin fest for all.
SX's, in my opinion, need really low pressure to flex. With the low pressure you need beadlocks. The lightweight of the Zuk may not help with the flexing either.
Anyways, run what makes you happy.

A quote of what I thought, pretty much what you said above right?:

[Better than my 33 x 15.50's on a Zuk. Bottom line seems to be they flex a lot more, and if you ever look at a 15.50 swamper on a 15x10" rim you'll see there isn't much sidewall to flex to start with.]

I agree the skinnier SX's hook up better on some stuff, a good example was Anaconda. Now the million dollar question is how would 35 x 12.50 SX's compare on my rig. I bet their sidewall doesn't flex good under my Zuk, a 35 x 12.50 TSL radial might flex better, if they made them. Anyway I mentioned the Chaos waterfalls because there was no traction advantage in my opinion between the skinny and fat tires.

I guess I don't see how the comparison is biased unless you don't think 1/4 of tread depth is not enough to climb smooth rocks, I think it is because at that point it's all tire compound doing the work. I think the hill climbs would favor deeper tread, so yea, the SX might have done better there, although my friends 33 x 10.50 tsl's didn't do any better on the same hills and he has more tread than I do.

Too bad I don't live out there. I'd trade you my 33" MT/Rs for a couple trail rides on your swampers.

I love the MT/Rs everywhere but gooey mud... but gooey mud us about all we have here. :(

They take a FAWKING incredible amount of wheel spin the get them cleaning, where my buddies boggers are grabbing fine at pretty much idle. I'm moving to AZ. Can I have Scwafish's spot in your yard? I can be there the day after tomorrow.

:skull: :skull: :skull:

Originally posted by Azrckcrawler

I bet their sidewall doesn't flex good under my Zuk, a 35 x 12.50 TSL radial might flex better, if they made them.

Take a close look at the 35 x 12.5 SSRs..... They should flex great, and the tire compund is even softer than the radials. The interesting thing is, they dont seem to tear up as bad here as the radials do.... A little work with your grooving iron and I think they could be a real hot setup.

Originally posted by okcrawler


Take a close look at the 35 x 12.5 SSRs..... They should flex great, and the tire compund is even softer than the radials. The interesting thing is, they dont seem to tear up as bad here as the radials do.... A little work with your grooving iron and I think they could be a real hot setup.

I might consider a set of those if I could find some used ones local. Course I believe those are bigger than the actual tire rating, I think Geoff measured the 33's at nearly 34" tall. So I could get away with the 33's. Strangely nobody runs those down here, well, at least not on their trail rigs. I wonder if it's because the TSL's are so much cheaper?

Originally posted by Yota_san
Too bad I don't live out there. I'd trade you my 33" MT/Rs for a couple trail rides on your swampers.

I love the MT/Rs everywhere but gooey mud... but gooey mud us about all we have here. :(

They take a FAWKING incredible amount of wheel spin the get them cleaning, where my buddies boggers are grabbing fine at pretty much idle. I'm moving to AZ. Can I have Scwafish's spot in your yard? I can be there the day after tomorrow.

:skull: :skull: :skull:

First come, first served :D

Originally posted by Azrckcrawler

Last thing, the tread compound is really soft. We found some Samurai sized culverts under this aqueduct and backed up into them for a picture, the Claws were leaving black marks everywhere on that concrete, my friends MTR's left nothing.

just out of curiousity, are you that impressed that you're willing to trade :
- accelerated wear from the rubber compound being softer?

- possible increased damage to sidewalls (requiring tire replacement) from them being so flexy?

the reason i ask, is it seems you're going from one extreme to another- the SX's are supposedly picked for their badass tough sidewall, making them inherently less flexy than some other choices.(unless i'm mistaken....i have never had them)
did you have this in mind when you originally got them, thinking you needed the protection?
if you get Claws and then start mangling them or they wear out really quickly, will you accept that as part of the price to pay for "superior" performance?

coming from a motorcycle background, i always picked stickyness over wear characteristics, but with the cost of four tires....that could add up, yikes. :eek:

I wheel regularly with several comperable rigs with different size swampers. I also wheel with another rig that is equipped with the same Claws I have. The claws have consistantly out performed the swampers in the type of wheeling that Chris does.
I can remember several instances where the claw equipped rigs were the only ones to clear an obsitcal unaided. Niether Kong's or I have had to replace a tire in 2 years for any reason. They do however seem to chunk more than a swamper and the available sizes are limited. Also price is an issue.

You tried 'em, you like 'em, go buy 'em. (I need those wheels:) )

Originally posted by UZI 9mm


just out of curiousity, are you that impressed that you're willing to trade :
- accelerated wear from the rubber compound being softer?

- possible increased damage to sidewalls (requiring tire replacement) from them being so flexy?

the reason i ask, is it seems you're going from one extreme to another- the SX's are supposedly picked for their badass tough sidewall, making them inherently less flexy than some other choices.(unless i'm mistaken....i have never had them)
did you have this in mind when you originally got them, thinking you needed the protection?
if you get Claws and then start mangling them or they wear out really quickly, will you accept that as part of the price to pay for "superior" performance?

:eek:

I fully realize there are trade offs. But I am at that point where climbing ability is of much more importance than the possibilty of the sidewall holding up. But that is assuming the sidewalls on the Claws won't hold up. If you saw Mark's truck you'd know he's done some serious stuff, no glass left and not a straight piece of sheet metal to be found, a true rockcrawler :eek: I'll snap some picks of the tires tonight, up close. My SX's may be worn down but these tires are by no means brand new either. The body on Marks Toy did some custom siping on the rear two, there are chunks of rubber hanging off here and there. I am not looking for tires that will last forever, I just want some that will go where I point them and allow me to run wide open getting to the trail with fewer bumps. Oh, and my rigs a trailer queen, so I bet the tires last longer than the rig will :D

it's definately lookin' like you will have Claws in your future, m'boy.:) :beer:

Originally posted by zags
I wheel regularly with several comperable rigs with different size swampers. I also wheel with another rig that is equipped with the same Claws I have. The claws have consistantly out performed the swampers in the type of wheeling that Chris does.
I can remember several instances where the claw equipped rigs were the only ones to clear an obsitcal unaided. Niether Kong's or I have had to replace a tire in 2 years for any reason. They do however seem to chunk more than a swamper and the available sizes are limited. Also price is an issue.

You tried 'em, you like 'em, go buy 'em. (I need those wheels:) )

So that's why you bought the SX's right?:D

Can I have Scwafish's spot in your yard?

Chris, let me answer this one for ya....NO! I have had dibs for weeks. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by JackA


So that's why you bought the SX's right?:D

That's a downside to these things is they are small. I measured one after filling it to 27psi, 32.75". Fine for a Zuk but I can see a LWB getting hung up a lot with these. I am sure that's why I didn't feel much change in the gearing. I wonder what 37" Claws actually measure? Anyone?

Chris- Are those 15x8 or 15x10 wheels? ~Steve

Maybe you said it in there but what did you run your SX's at...

Chris,

You're right, my 33x14.50 Swamper SSRs are almost 34 inches tall when inflated to street pressure. Side by side with a regular 33x12.50, they look like 35's. And as you know, I love their additional width, but I spent a lot more time in the deep soft snow than you get to down there in AZ.

The other nice thing about having tall tires is that you can air them down real far and not lose as much ground clearance. In the rocks I run 4psi which gives me a real fat contact patch. In the snow, I go below 1psi and float on top of everything.

I believe Dave King has 33x12.50 SSRs, you might want to go by his place and check them out. Who knows, maybe he'll loan you his set to try out in the rocks too. I'm sure happy with mine. I've thrashed the heck out of them and put about 10,000 miles on them on the highway, and they are the best all-around tire in my opinion. They stick like glue to the rocks too, and their sidewalls are way tougher than you'd think at first glance. I'd be interested to hear your opinion of a direct comparison between the Claws and the SSRs.

I had to get some beadlocks, I couldn't run my 33x14 Boggers any lower than 8psi with out driving on the rim! 8 psi just doesn't get it for me.

Originally posted by squirrelman83
Chris- Are those 15x8 or 15x10 wheels? ~Steve

I have 15x10" rims, the Claws I borrowed were also on 15 x 10" rims.

Originally posted by zukiman
Chris,

You're right, my 33x14.50 Swamper SSRs are almost 34 inches tall when inflated to street pressure. Side by side with a regular 33x12.50, they look like 35's. And as you know, I love their additional width, but I spent a lot more time in the deep soft snow than you get to down there in AZ.

The other nice thing about having tall tires is that you can air them down real far and not lose as much ground clearance. In the rocks I run 4psi which gives me a real fat contact patch. In the snow, I go below 1psi and float on top of everything.

I believe Dave King has 33x12.50 SSRs, you might want to go by his place and check them out. Who knows, maybe he'll loan you his set to try out in the rocks too. I'm sure happy with mine. I've thrashed the heck out of them and put about 10,000 miles on them on the highway, and they are the best all-around tire in my opinion. They stick like glue to the rocks too, and their sidewalls are way tougher than you'd think at first glance. I'd be interested to hear your opinion of a direct comparison between the Claws and the SSRs.

I believe Dave has TSL's, unless he picked up some new tires recently. Yeah, if I can get my hands on some SSR's mounted on 6 bolt rims I'll definately evaluate them. My only problem with considering the SSR's is price, those things are like gold, especially considering they aren't designed to be the most aggressive tread or toughest sidewall. If I can find a set used with some decent tread left I'll most likely pick them up. There was a guy selling 4 35 x 14.50's for $390, good price but I think those will be too big.

Originally posted by mickfatty
I had to get some beadlocks, I couldn't run my 33x14 Boggers any lower than 8psi with out driving on the rim! 8 psi just doesn't get it for me.

Yeah, gotta get those things to 5 or less, then they work good.

Originally posted by mickfatty
Maybe you said it in there but what did you run your SX's at...

Lately 3 of them have been doing good at 5psi, one of them looses air if I go that lo so I keep it at 7-10psi and it seems to do fine. I had my rims modified so the safety bead is built up, acts like an internal beadlock. I think the bead is ripped on the one that leaks all the time, been considering taking it to one of the 4x4 shops and have them dismount it and put some silicon all along the bead, then put it back on the tire.

Chris

don't write off the MTR"S.......

"I even climbed some stuff that my friend Ron had to put it in 4 lo to climb (he was running MTR's). "

you have way lower gearing than Ron. weighing in at less than half his Phat Zuk....and have way more miles of extreme trails under your belt......and not on your top like he is most of the time....lol

I've got a set of 35's your welcome to test out......or My tires.....but if you break them....you got to replace them....;-)

Originally posted by Arizona Zuk
Chris

don't write off the MTR"S.......

"I even climbed some stuff that my friend Ron had to put it in 4 lo to climb (he was running MTR's). "

you have way lower gearing than Ron. weighing in at less than half his Phat Zuk....and have way more miles of extreme trails under your belt......and not on your top like he is most of the time....lol

I've got a set of 35's your welcome to test out......or My tires.....but if you break them....you got to replace them....;-)

You got those on 6 lug? :D Hey, what am I missing? I see the Tire Rack has 35" MTR's for $156 ea, that halfprice sale was $131? Are the guys in town just marking them up a lot?

Originally posted by Azrckcrawler


You got those on 6 lug? :D Hey, what am I missing? I see the Tire Rack has 35" MTR's for $156 ea, that halfprice sale was $131? Are the guys in town just marking them up a lot?

got 35 inch BFG's on 6 lug.....not much back spacing though....
I've got a tire machine.....if you feel rowdy....ya can change them around for a test.....the air is free

not sure what's up with the prices......:-)

Originally posted by Arizona Zuk


got 35 inch BFG's on 6 lug.....not much back spacing though....
I've got a tire machine.....if you feel rowdy....ya can change them around for a test.....the air is free

not sure what's up with the prices......:-)

Hey, measure that backspacing, I am running standard 3.75" right now. If they are not more than 4" I'll try em out on Sat. if that's ok. I can be out at your place early to swap em around. I don't even want to mess around trying to get mine on/off my rims, I have heard it can take as much as a 100psi to get the bead over Rogers Baumlock........ I'd be afraid I'd pop a tire :eek: If nothing else I can't pass up free air....

Originally posted by JackA


So that's why you bought the SX's right?:D

No,I wanted to have to have the biggest tires:flipoff2:

Actually, my last two comments explain my decision. You and I have had our tires about the same amount of trips, and yours seem to be wearing better. I am giving up some performance for longevity, and the size I wanted.
After reading Chris's review, I hope I didn't make a big $ mistake.....

I'm pretty sure my 33" MT/Rs will be for sale soon, too. When you convert an IFS Toy to solid axle, you need a certain amount of lift so you don't have things smacking into each other on compression. IFS frames just don't have enough arch over the axle to get away with 3-4" of lift.

So if it's gonna end up lifted enough to run 35s, I'm running 35s.

Too bad I don't live out by you Chris, I'd cut ya a deal on em. They certainly flex more than the SXs... 11PSI is plenty low on a Toy.