Would a Dana 300 be an 'upgrade' for a daily driver? I have a 93 YJ 4.0L and, unfortunately, spend more time on asphalt then on trails, but would like the capabilities of the Dana 300 - twin shifters, gear driven, shorter case, iron case, etc. I'm just worried how it may effect my YJ when its not on the trail, e.g., gas mileage, wear, etc.

TIA
Paul

Then there's the whole problem of it dropping the front driveshaft on the wrong side... :rolleyes:

he dont care about a front driveshaft.. he is a pavement pounder probably dont even get into 4wd

I think he's talking about Down East Off Road's "flipped" Dana 300 kit, where the driveshaft is in the correct position (for the YJ pumpkin)
As to the original question, I am not sure, shouldn't be a problem though. Its gear driven, it'll probably whine a lil' louder,but at the same time you dont have to worry about chains "slacking" ?
BTT for ya, as I also wanna know:confused:

Is this post a joke? :rolleyes: :flipoff2: Anybody ever seen a CJ7 as a daily driver? Hmmmm, I wonder if they all swap in NP 231's for better mileage and reliability :laughing:

its more of an alternative than an upgrade. an upgrade would be an atlas. you can twin stick and 4 to 1 and every thing else a np231. they get alot of shit for being chain driven and not being cast iron, but they aren't all bad. i've never had a problem with mine. if you have one already and don't want to pony up to the atlas, build the 231. no sense in going to a 300, since it will cost 695 for the flip kit, extra for anything else, price of the case, driveshaft work, ect. that stuff gets expensive fast, and you will be at the price of the atlas by the time you are finished.

Originally posted by aaronlosey
its more of an alternative than an upgrade. an upgrade would be an atlas. you can twin stick and 4 to 1 and every thing else a np231. they get alot of shit for being chain driven and not being cast iron, but they aren't all bad. i've never had a problem with mine. if you have one already and don't want to pony up to the atlas, build the 231. no sense in going to a 300, since it will cost 695 for the flip kit, extra for anything else, price of the case, driveshaft work, ect. that stuff gets expensive fast, and you will be at the price of the atlas by the time you are finished.

What happened to the good tech on this page. Here is a huge break through on this thread as far as informations goes....
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231's SUCK MAJOR DONKEY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
D300 is a MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better choice in cases, and argueably just as good as an atlas with the flip kit and 4:1. Personally, I agree, the Atlas is the best out there, but the D300 is way better than a 231. Dont ever believe it isnt.

Yeah the dana 300 is a better T case, for hard core wheeling.
But I wouldnt suggest spending the time and money, on a flip kit, and swap, just for the status symbol of having a D300.
The NP231 is a good T case, once the slip yoke has been replaced with good SYE and HD output shaft.
Drive it like that, untill one day, when you find yourself climbing like a mountain goat, on a rockface, and suddenly realize, there is no way to make the pivot and climb the steepest line you have ever seen anyone attempt, because you dont have that damn twin stick.
Then sell your SYE'd NP231, and buy an Atlas.:flipoff2:

Geeze learn how to break the stuff you already got, before you go and blow your bankroll on a $1000(or more) swap you dont even need.

Originally posted by aaronlosey
you can twin stick and 4 to 1 and every thing else a np231.



HUhhh:confused:
You cant twin stick an NP231. :rasta:

I have both a 300 and Atlas. I sold my 231 with SYE when it had 715 miles on it to upgrade to the Atlas. I do plan on getting rid of my 300 and getting a Atlas when the funds are there. To your question. Yes the 300 is a better transfercase, but I don't think it is worth the money to "fix" it, so that you could use it. Save you money and do it right the first time. You will save money in the long run....:D

Originally posted by H8monday




HUhhh:confused:
You cant twin stick an NP231. :rasta:

I was gonna ask who had that kit.

-Bart

Thanks for the replies - its appreciated. In my initial post I didn't include the reason for considering the Dana 300 in place of my NP231. I only just started considering the Dana 300 and wanted to find out more about it relative to the NP231 and so I posted as such. But maybe I should explain why I am consider the swap.

I have an 8.8 waiting to go in, and because I don't want to have to mess with pinion angle more than once I decided to do other things as well, such as a flat skid and relocating the rear spring hanger below the frame. I have 2.5" OME springs all the way around, a MORE SRS out front, I'm relocating the rear spring hanger to level out the YJ - and please ... no flames on the decreased approach/departure angles, I've already been through this :rolleyes: I have my t-case dropped with washers to quench some of the driveline vibrations and I want to get rid of the t-case drop, raise the tranny up via a flat skid, relocate the rear spring hanger and swap in the 8.8. The 8.8, to the best of my knowledge, results in a 1" shorter DS. So I planned on a AA/JB SYE/HD CV DS for $550 to help out the angles for this and the flat skid. I've read of some folks with 4" lifts and the Tera belly-up that have driveline vibrations - although I don't have that much suspension lift I want the longest DS w/o sacrificing my t-case. This is why I'm considering the Dana 300. Costwise it seems comparable

The fact that its a cast iron case and is gear driven seems like a huge bonus to me, as are the twin shifting capability. If (when) I go SOA I will certainly need a longer DS and this would help. I want to do this once and get it right. As far as the Atlas, I can't afford it right now. There's a group buy going on and I'd like to be a part of it since I can save quite a bit.

Here's my breakdown for the Dana 300 conversion:

Dana 300 - $100 (got a line on one)
Rear DS - $250
Tera 4Lo - $530 (group buy)
Flip kit (DEOR) - $550 (group buy)
Front DS - $200
Sell NP231 - -$400
Total - $1230

To upgrade my NP231:
SYE/HD CV DS - $550 (Tom Wood's)
Tera 4Lo - $800
Front DS - $200 (Need due to MORE SRS)
Total - $1550

I can do the Tera 4Lo when I have more cash so the initial cost of this conversion is $700 vs $750 for the NP231/SYE/HD CV DS/Front DS (no Tera 4Lo). Either way I should get what I want as far as driveline angles. In addition, the Tera 4Lo will be more expensive with the NP231.

Given the fact that I only started researching the Dana 300 this weekend I'd like to know if this upgrade will result in any negative behavior on my YJ. I really don't know much about the case and I figured that you guys would know. I do know that I can't flat tow without some modifications (paddles, or clocking it flat (?)) and that I don't shift on the fly capability unless I lock the front to get the front DS spinning. I was thinking of welding the spider gears since I have a YJ D30 with the vacuum disconnect (posi-lock soon??) so I can have the passenger axle disconnected onroad. This way I retain shift on the fly - this isn't that crucial for me but would be nice for when I'm driving in slippery conditions and need to shift into 4WD.

I don't wheel that often right now because I'm trying to finish up my Doctoral studies and work 6-7 days a week. Plus, this is my only ride. I'm not looking for a "more reliable t-case" or "better mileage" - I just want to know more about the Dana 300 vs the NP231 to make it easier to decide. I already like the shorter case, that its gear driven, stronger, twin shift, etc. The question is whether this is a good swap for a YJ vs the NP 231.

So ... should I just SYE my NP231 or swap in a Dana 300?

Thanks ... and sorry for the long-winded post
:emb:

Paul

You can just have your front shaft shortened. Shouldn't be anywhere near $200.
Yet another 150 reasons to do it!$$$$

JUST get an Atlas!! do it right ro do it twice...
just kidding, I love good advice like that, but who cares since you are only a street stomper.

Anyway, I don't see how you can consider a 300 an alternative, not an upgrade to 231, I would consider it a lowcost alternative to the Atlas, I and everyone else and their brother knows the Atlas is a great case, but that really has nothing to do with this post since he is asking about a Dana 300 and not even considering an Atlas. If you think a 300 will cost as much as an Atlas anyway, then you are mistaken, Simply upgrading a 231 to a SYE and 4:1 will bring you much closer to the price of an Atlas, and you still won't have twin sticks and a 4 inch longer driveshaft, and you'll still have a chain driven aluminum case.
There's more than one way to acheive a goal, and since everone on this board is so DIY, i think this should be right up everyone's ally instead of inciting flames.

-Jer

While you are adding the Terra lo and flip kit dont forget the stronger rear output shaft fron advance adapters which list for $466.46. So now we have new figures to add.

Dana 300-------------------$100.00
twin stick kit---------------$129.95
Terra lo---------------------$530.00
flip kit-----------------------$550.00
rear shaft upgrade-------$466.46
total price for Dana 300________
with upgrades-------------$1776.41
minus what you sell ----$400.00 ----sounds real optomistic to me
the NP 231 for ----------_________
new total =========$1376.41
This does not even include your time and labor or shipping cost and assuming that all bearings and gaskets are included in the kits( I have not installed one so I do not know what is included).

Now for the Atlas-------------$2395.95
sell your 231---------------------$400.00
total -----------------------------$1995.95
no extras needed so assuming the kits include everything,-free shipping- and your labor isnt worth anything-and you dont mess anything up while putting it all together you save $619.54

Originally posted by DownunderBender




HUhhh:confused:
You cant twin stick an NP231. :rasta:

Damn, beat me to it :D

I went with as flipped 300 and I like it so far. It is a big upgrade over the 231 IMO-cast case, shorter, all gears, A "real 2-low, twin sticks, and a cheaper 4:1 if I go that route and if I ever start to bust the out put shaft I can upgrade it.

I I know a Atlas is better but one is just not in the cards for me and I needed something and another 231 was just not going to cut it. There is nothing wrong with the fliped 300, I'm sick of this trend where it seems to be all about spendign the money for the mods and not piecing it together with what you can get cheap.

Maybe I'm just not thinking straight here this AM, but why don't folks with YJ's just try to get a '74-'79 waggy 44 front end, and swap it in so the drop is on the correct side for the D300, rather than the $$ for the flip kit. I can kinda understand the TJ folks since there is the whole coil spring issue.

Or are most YJ people who are doing this already have upgraded front axles? Or are there other things in the way that would preclude this from happening?

I realize you have to mess around with steering & make sure your gear ratios match, but for around the same cost (or a little more) you could get 2 upgrades.

It was my understanding the the YJ & Waggy have about the same track & same spring width?

Just a thought....

-Mel

I wouldn't count on 400 for a stock t-case. Unless it is one of those Scout II, Texas style bolt pattern 231's:rasta:


Anyway, don't count on the t-case sale in your deciding which way to go, that is a constant.

Why do you want to spend all that $$ to get another shifter. Really do you need 2Lo? Leave the T-case until you bust it....

Originally posted by aaronlosey
its more of an alternative than an upgrade. an upgrade would be an atlas. you can twin stick and 4 to 1 and every thing else a np231. they get alot of shit for being chain driven and not being cast iron, but they aren't all bad. i've never had a problem with mine. if you have one already and don't want to pony up to the atlas, build the 231. no sense in going to a 300, since it will cost 695 for the flip kit, extra for anything else, price of the case, driveshaft work, ect. that stuff gets expensive fast, and you will be at the price of the atlas by the time you are finished.

Are U smoking crack? I have never seen a twin stick 231. The 300 is a much stronger case than a 231 no chain, and its not alunimum, not to mention shorter... what a :rainbow:

Originally posted by hy_desert_4wheeler
While you are adding the Terra lo and flip kit dont forget the stronger rear output shaft fron advance adapters which list for $466.46. So now we have new figures to add.

Dana 300-------------------$100.00
twin stick kit---------------$129.95
Terra lo---------------------$530.00
flip kit-----------------------$550.00
rear shaft upgrade-------$466.46
total price for Dana 300________
with upgrades-------------$1776.41
minus what you sell ----$400.00 ----sounds real optomistic to me
the NP 231 for ----------_________
new total =========$1376.41
This does not even include your time and labor or shipping cost and assuming that all bearings and gaskets are included in the kits( I have not installed one so I do not know what is included).

Now for the Atlas-------------$2395.95
sell your 231---------------------$400.00
total -----------------------------$1995.95
no extras needed so assuming the kits include everything,-free shipping- and your labor isnt worth anything-and you dont mess anything up while putting it all together you save $619.54

Just a couple of comments, the twin stick comes with the flip kit from down east so its included in the cost. I wouln't bother buying the upgraded rear shaft upgrade until you break the stock one. The guy that makes the kit was running a LT1+38's on the stock shaft and hasn't broken it yet.

Originally posted by Mel85CJ
Maybe I'm just not thinking straight here this AM, but why don't folks with YJ's just try to get a '74-'79 waggy 44 front end, and swap it in so the drop is on the correct side for the D300, rather than the $$ for the flip kit. I can kinda understand the TJ folks since there is the whole coil spring issue.

Or are most YJ people who are doing this already have upgraded front axles? Or are there other things in the way that would preclude this from happening?

I realize you have to mess around with steering & make sure your gear ratios match, but for around the same cost (or a little more) you could get 2 upgrades.

It was my understanding the the YJ & Waggy have about the same track & same spring width?

Just a thought....

-Mel




Now that is the only thing good i have read that has come from this thread....waggy 44's are a dime a dozen so are Dana 300's...you should have bought a scout 44 so you could stick a waggy 44 dana 300 and scout 44 cheaper than that $1500 tcase crap. dont worry about the upgraded shaft in the dana 300 you will nuke a D44 b4 that sucker blows. look at every side b4 you go buy a $1500 part. dont buy it twice, cuz i bet (me) all these guys have in the past one way or another. we know from experience. :beer:

Hell yes the D300 is a good case. Get the HD rear output (much cheaper from Terra BTW) and the 4to1 and it's almost as strong as an atlas for less than half price.

As for the flip kit - skip that. Get a front D44 for less than the cost of the flip kit.

Phil
With a D300, 4to1, HD output, and Chevy D60 DIY narrowed, with Detroit anf 5.13's ALL for less than the price of an Atlas...

As far as the HD mainshaft, I can do that at a later time, as with the Tera 4Lo. It seems that everyone comes up with a different cost for the D300 so I'm not going to argue it - the numbers I posted are relative to my situation and the deals through group buys so it will change. The reason a D300 sounds good to me is that I don't have to send in $2000 at once (which I don't have), while I can slowly build the D300 as I have the funds.

The Scout D44 conversion is problematic for me because I'd have to re-route my exhaust - obviously can be done, but the flip kit will let me install the D300 and keep everything else stock until I can afford other upgrades. Plus it comes with the twin shifter kit as well for $550 (group buy). A D44 up front would be great, but that will have to be a future upgrade.

Either way, I'm spending comparable money (see the my breakdown above) on the t-case and new DS's. It is just a question of whether to SYE the NP231 or get a D300 w/ flip kit.

Originally posted by robobx
You can just have your front shaft shortened. Shouldn't be anywhere near $200.
Yet another 150 reasons to do it!$$$$

You mean lengthened. Front shaft and rear shaft will both have to be lengthend.

Oh yea, and dont forget the Transfercase Disc Brake.. :D

my 02c is put a HD SYE in the 231 and just wheel the damn thing.

its a couple of hours work start to finish and you'll not likely break it with your 4 liter. Sure there's no twin stick or 4:1 low range but you said yourself you spend most of the time on pavement.

After you get rich sucking fat out of people with the lipo-gun ;) then money won't matter and you can slap an atlas 2 and a pair of Dana 60s under your new Lexus GX 470 and really get it :flipoff2:

edit: I assumed "Doctoral" meant you are becoming a doctor but this may not be the case so ignore my last comment, but hopefully you see my point. Sounds like now is not the best time for you to spend time or money so just get it back on the trail and wheel it.

With a D300 swap( in a TJ anyway) I had to have my front shaft shortened.

Yep, going from an np231 to D300 will result in having to shorten the front shaft, and lengthen the rear.

Phil

This seems to me like a wasted argument. What do YOU want to do with your setup? Got the money? GO ATLAS!!!! Got time AND money? Go 300. Limited funds, not really sure yet what kinda wheelin you are gonna end up doin? Go SYE and try to break shit. I wheeled for 3-4 years on a 231 and then a 231 with SYE. Never broke it. The only reason I changed...I wanted to get BUSY in the BOX!!!!!! Now I can and not have to worry about takin my t case out on the trail side. Long story short....just buy what fits your rig, and style of wheelin.

Same message, different messenger ... If it aint broke don't fix it.
Save the money for the Atlas.

The bonus to the D300 is it's shorter than the Atlas II so your rear drive shaft will be longer.

Originally posted by Square Peg
Same message, different messenger ... If it aint broke don't fix it.
Save the money for the Atlas.

Damn! is anyone reading the original posters' questions?:rolleyes:
He is not simply asking if his stock 231 is better or worse. Gave us the info on the planned upgrades. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by DNA
As far as the Atlas, I can't afford it right now. There's a group buy going on and I'd like to be a part of it since I can save quite a bit.



Hmmm, I may not have a 6th grade education, but it sounds to me like he would buy an Atlas, and if he didn't piss away his cash on a D300, flip kit, and 4-1 he could have one.

Original question - is a D300 an upgrade to a NP231 ... No!, If your willing to piss away enough cash to be able to use it on a YJ with the driver side drop then YES it is.

Originally posted by Square Peg
Hmmm, I may not have a 6th grade education, but it sounds to me like he would buy an Atlas, and if he didn't piss away his cash on a D300, flip kit, and 4-1 he could have one.

Original question - is a D300 an upgrade to a NP231 ... No!, If your willing to piss away enough cash to be able to use it on a YJ with the driver side drop then YES it is.

No pissing away involved. Not EVERYONE needs an Atlas. They just want something stonger than a 231. The D300 is much stronger than the 231. Gear driven, no chains, iron case, etc. The Atlas is the same design as the D300.
Anyone that says that the D300 is not stronger than the 231 is smoking crack.

And for those who commented on having to install the flip kit and Teralow yourself vs just bolting in an Atlas, I hope you aren't the same guys that spout off when someone buys something like a bumper instead of building it yourself. Whatever happened to the fun of DIY?

Besides, that extra $600 can go towards many other mods. :D

Chris

Originally posted by Square Peg


Original question - is a D300 an upgrade to a NP231? No! ...

OK, so let's forgert the 4:1 altogether for a minute. Just compare the cost of an SYE and a CV driveshaft vs the cost of a 300 and flip kit. they are roughly the same, give or take a few hundred. The main advantage of an SYE is improved drivline angle. For about the same cost you get a more improved driveline angle, and all the other advantages just come with it.

Yeah, but it's not an Atlas!

Like it has been said, not everyone needs an Atlas. Not everyone has the cash to throw out there all at once. For less than a a grand you can get better driveline angles and a much stronger case. And lets not forget about the extra cash from selling the 231!
So you put in the flipped 300 for about $700 and run it while you save for a tera low.
If you have no plans of swapping in a V-8 and running 38"+tires you don't need an Atlas.:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Square Peg


Hmmm, I may not have a 6th grade education, but it sounds to me like he would buy an Atlas, and if he didn't piss away his cash on a D300, flip kit, and 4-1 he could have one.

Original question - is a D300 an upgrade to a NP231 ... No!, If your willing to piss away enough cash to be able to use it on a YJ with the driver side drop then YES it is.

Are you the same guy who was givin the guys on the 300 group buy over on JU a hard time? It really is getting ridiculous, why do have such a hard time understanding that most of these guys buying the 300 like myself prolly would have never broken the 231 so why waste the extra 6-800 on an Atlas you don't need??? For christsakes that's enough for an ARB or a couple of auto lockers. Just go away you have nothing constructive to add. He asked if a 300 was an upgrade to a 231 and the answer of course is "yes"