http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=306650

This is Paul Bredehoft's '91 Explorer he just got it out of the fab shop. Winter Douglas designed the steering and front suspension.

umm nice X

Thats the best flex I've seen out of a red x.

Not bad not bad at all!! :D

WOW, flexes almost like a straight axle. Probaly could had a 60 front for the cost of all the TTB stuff. Why spend all that money on TTB when its just gonna break?:question:

Um..................OK:rolleyes:
Thank you for sharing:laughing:

looks like a regular dana 35 that some one put coil overs on. need mroe pics.

I don't think the D60 would do the high speed runs nearly as well as this setup. It's a crossbreed rockcrawler pre-runner and it does both pretty damn well.

why not just use that money toward a solid axle?

maybe its me but that bumper is :rainbow:

The D35 has been widened, cut and turned, and boxed.http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=303399

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=303403

As I said it just got out of hte shop and the photos aren't great. He needs to get some better detail shots.

Originally posted by rollmeover
maybe its me but that bumper is :rainbow:

Yeah, I'm not fond of those tow truck bumpers either.

Hey matt think you can work your magic and get his pictures to show up?

Nice engineering. not what I would do, but hey, diff'rnt strokes for diff'rnt folks.

I am not knocking that at all, nice flex, but what is the advantage of going ultra custom on a TTB setup rather than a SAS?

Sure. :D

Originally posted by TrailRunner
Hey matt think you can work your magic and get his pictures to show up?

2

I already said it. He's going to use it for high speed desert running as well as rock crawling. Sure the SAS is better for rock, but which do you think will handle the high speed turns and jumps better? My bet is on a well set up TTB.

I had a long discussion with him before he did the conversion and this is what he wanted. He knows the pros and cons of both.

Now for my tastes in wheelin' I went with a SAS.
http://www.explorer4x4.com/pumpkin_frflex.jpg

http://www.explorer4x4.com/rick_rearrock.jpg

FYI, since swithching from the TTB to the SA I can't run the washes at T-haven as fast and sure footedly as I did before the swap. It just feels way tippy going into the turns at high speed. Not to mention the ride isn't as smooth since an impact on one wheel is transmitted across the entire axle.

Now for everything else I do I like the SA way better.

5 points for anyone who can guess where the shot on the bottom in the previus post was taken.

Originally posted by Explorer
5 points for anyone who can guess where the shot on the bottom in the previus post was taken.


hmmm... post claws but pre body damage... that terminator trail?

Nope.

Originally posted by Explorer
FYI, since swithching from the TTB to the SA I can't run the washes at T-haven as fast and sure footedly as I did before the swap.

Rick, Im not saying that a solid axle is the key to pre running, but with a good coil over front suspension (I noticed you're just running Ranchos or something similar, and Bronco coils or equivalent) a SA will most definitely fully get it in the whoops. :)

I'm sure it will be a lot better Lance. In fact I can't wait to see for myself. My Bilstein's arrived last Friday! Now to get off the trails long enough to fab the new setup...

Originally posted by Explorer
I'm sure it will be a lot better Lance. In fact I can't wait to see for myself. My Bilstein's arrived last Friday! Now to get off the trails long enough to fab the new setup...

Sweet! Which ones did ya get?

Originally posted by MattS
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=318789



I'm impressed...thats the first TTB I've seen flex.....That steering is definately key.

However......

In the picture above, notice the angle that the axle u-joint would have to work at. That's just doesn't seem functional. Where as if it were a straight axle there would be no problem....the whole prerunner thing is noted.

Still great job on that steering design, I can definately see a market for that.

2" body, resovoir, large diamter shaft. 10" travel. They will be mounted back from the axle on the lower link so the 10" is all that's needed.

I'm not sure if you had seen the thread on my front suspension, but my current shocks limit the droop. http://www.4x4central.com/dana44_16.jpg

http://www.explorer4x4.com/pumpkin_travel.jpg

The shocks in the lower photo are the same length as the coil overs I'm getting. That will cure the "problem" you see in the photo.

Rick, maybe these pics are bad angles, but I'd almost say Zimmerman's flexed more than that one.

& every time I see pics of Tory & Jeff with their sunglasses on backwards, it really annoys the hell outta me.

Very nice Rick! I like the creative inginuity in the design of the TTB and steering linkages. What's the owner running for the rear suspension? BTW, I'm sure that setup cost some major $$$ but which shop did the fab work and any idea how much? :cool:

Zimmerman's doesn't compress nearly as much as Paul's even though they do get good droop.

Winter Douglas deseigned Paul's steering and contracted to have the fab work done. I'm not sure where it was done or how much. It is supposed to be available in kit form at some point.

Right now the rear suspension is stock. SUA with National springs. Winter is designing a new rear suspension for him to match the capabilities ofthe front.

That's pretty cool and all, but my question would be why did he keep the D35 TTB rather than upgradeing to the D44 or D50 TTB? I would think the weak hubs, shafts and u-joint would be the first thing I would get rid of.

Good point Grandpa Jeep. I wondered the same thing and asked about that. The guy who designed it says he was looking for something he could offer in kit form and he beleived there had to be a cutoff point for expenses. If I was going to go through all that trouble I would have went with the D-44 or D-50 myself without a doubt.

That is cool!, i like TTB because it take some much tought into making it work killer, but i do agree with Grandpa jeep, a TTB 44 from a fullsize would make it a lot easier, even still in a kind of kit form
but i like it

D44 TTB setups get sent to the scrap yards all the time. They should be a dime a dozen.

why use a dana 44 TTB? The dana 35 uses the same size ujoint as the 44 does. the hubs are a little weker on a 35 but can swap the knucles out and have the stronger hubs off the 44 on a 35. Also most people that are going to do something like this might have gears and lockers in their 35 so this way they dont have to spend the extra money on new gears and lockers. I am hoping to make it to TDS so I can see it in person. I bet it will be seeing some major air time if colin gets to drive it :eek:

Matt

Originally posted by Explorer
5 points for anyone who can guess where the shot on the bottom in the previus post was taken.

Real close to potato salad hill in moab? Do i get my 5 pts Rick? :D

Originally posted by Underdog
Um..................OK:rolleyes:
Thank you for sharing:laughing:
Bahahaha

Originally posted by rollmeover
why not just use that money toward a solid axle?

The TTB doesn't seem to suck so bad at speed. :D

We had 3 last year, now there'll be 4 1980s FS TTB Broncos racing based out of Bozeman, MT.

TTB Bronco, new HD longer radius arms, trussed housing, 4" lift, some 35s and a little trimming..

With a 351 they'll really eat up the courses.

My friend Blair finished first in at least half of the races he ran with his low-buck TTB Bronco.

Rides nice n' smooth, too. I rode shotgun with him for an hour long baja-race.

Much nicer than my solid axled Scout II. :D

Fortunately, he goes down in the drags against me. His 302 has sucked a bit too much dust..

Brian is right... then again he was there with me :D

There is one part of the D-35 that's not upgradable Matt, and that's the paper thin aluminum housing and the crappy, poorly casted, aluminum bearing caps.

Originally posted by RockRanger
why use a dana 44 TTB? The dana 35 uses the same size ujoint as the 44 does. the hubs are a little weker on a 35 but can swap the knucles out and have the stronger hubs off the 44 on a 35. Also most people that are going to do something like this might have gears and lockers in their 35 so this way they dont have to spend the extra money on new gears and lockers. I am hoping to make it to TDS so I can see it in person. I bet it will be seeing some major air time if colin gets to drive it :eek:

Matt

The D44 knuckles out swap? Didn't know that. Didn't realize the u-joint was the same size either. But like Explorer said. That still leaves you with the 27 spline inner shafts, a smaller r & p and an aluminum diff casting. They only made TTB D44s for what 17 years? They should be everywhere and should be cheap since no one wants them.

That is true about the diff not being upgradeable but it does have a benifit of being RC. The only person I have seen have trouble with the dana 35 carrier is tom davis. And he is just tom so that explains it right there :flipoff2: The only other problem is putting holes in them with the drop bracket lifts as you saw me do rick. Another thing to cosider is wont the 44 weigh more up front as well? I already have a pretty nose heavy front end and would hate to add any extra weight to the front that i dont need.

Matt

Phuuuuleeeze !!

What the heck is going on here?

Nice engineering?....yea - for a wind chime or kiddies mobile?

You HAVE to be kidding with that bent tie rod thingey.

And a d35??? Jeez - we're constantly complaining about the weak point in solid axle d44 being the joint, and someone wants to go and build something with EXTRA U-joints in it??

High speed or not....that is awful.. Shiny.....but awful:flipoff2:

I knew that looked familiar Rick LOL.

So someone want to try this with a dana 44? there is a complete d44 ttb on ebay right now for $20 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1803856666&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1013806898&indexURL=0&rd=1)

BillaVista, when I first saw that setup I thought exactly what you just said. I would like to see it perform on the rocks to see just how well all that does. I know it should do good for the baja type stuff but i dont know about rocks.

Ehmmm Matt, i guess you don't remember my "Whoops! page: http://www.explorer4x4.com/busted.jpg

I sheared my carrier in half. Took out the bearing cap, split the bearing race in half and shattered the housing. I hate D-35s... On my original wish list for aftermarket support was a cast iron or nodular center section for the D-35. Then I woke up and realized the 35 wasn't worth upgrading.

Oh the lower pinion is from an 8.8".

Matt, do you know anyone who did the D-44 knuckle conversion? Winter told me the spread at the ball joints is different. Anyway, by the time you get the new knuckles, spindles, hubs, and outer axles you might as well have bought an entire used D-44 TTB.

Winter could defenently be right about that. I thought one of the people on your site had done it. I did a quick search but didn't find it i guess i could be wrong. I didn't remeber that you detroyed your 35 like that all i remeber is the story about the spring perches on the 8.8 Ive only known you sence last truckhaven and you already had the 44 up front.

Matt

Paul Gagnon had started a thread about it,but never did it. I have heard a lot of people discuss it, but have never talked to anyone who did it or even knew of someone that did it for sure.

Yeah, I busted that thing back in '95.

Originally posted by RockRanger
The only person I have seen have trouble with the dana 35 carrier is tom davis. And he is just tom so that explains it right there :flipoff2:

Hey, I tweaked, and then had a bearing cap break on me (total replacement of the pumpkin, $500++ from Ford, $300 from a junkyard (you have to get all of the pumpkin, not just the shell...)

So I tossed it, and put in a cutdown, 78 Ford d44 solid axle. Promptly rolled that puppy too.

Oh well, time for a zuki!

"Phuuuuleeeze !!

What the heck is going on here?

Nice engineering?....yea - for a wind chime or kiddies mobile?

You HAVE to be kidding with that bent tie rod thingey.

And a d35??? Jeez - we're constantly complaining about the weak point in solid axle d44
being the joint, and someone wants to go and build something with EXTRA U-joints in it??

High speed or not....that is awful.. Shiny.....but awful"

You just have to love a guy who has all the answers even though he has no freakin' idea what he is talking about. Go out to the races sometime and check out the FULL RACE TTB trucks and 2wd trucks with Twin I beam front ends. 'nuf said. For that matter check out the steering on ANY full race truck.

BTW, since you don't seem to know why racers use a steering system like that... the reason is to keep the tie-rods in perfect alignment with the axle beams throughout their range of travel.

Originally posted by Explorer
Paul Gagnon had started a thread about it,but never did it. I have heard a lot of people discuss it, but have never talked to anyone who did it or even knew of someone that did it for sure.

Yeah, I busted that thing back in '95.

That's right, it was an idea that I had tossed around with DangerRanger. Nothing ever came of it. If it does work I'm sure it could be a (less than perfect) solution for someone who has a lot of cash into their D35 and want's to keep it. For me the D35 stays until it has a catastrophic failure or until I get tired of the radius arms binding up on me.

You just have to love a guy who has all the answers even though he has no freakin' idea what he is talking about. Go out to the races sometime and check out the FULL RACE TTB trucks and 2wd trucks with Twin I beam front ends. 'nuf said. For that matter check out the steering on ANY full race truck.

Oh you misunderstand....I know exactly WHY it's done like that, it's not the theory I was critiqueing, just the execution. I have checked out race trucks...not a D35 on any of them :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Look pal, don't get your panties in a bunch...people do that all the time - posting pics and trolling for compliments...well this is the POR extreme 4x4 site - not "Johhny wanna be a race truck.com." I don't have the answers, never said I did, all I have is an opinion...which YOU asked for with your post...don't get bent if I don't like it.

What the fawk do you care what I think anyway...really - if it turns your crank...that's cool - do what makes you happy...just don't get upset if not everbody bows down and worships it....coz I for one think its crap:flipoff2:

:flipoff2: Yourself:rolleyes:

Here's your complaint "Nice engineering yea - for a wind chime or kiddies mobile? You HAVE to be kidding with that bent tie rod thingey."

Didn't sound to me like you knew what those "wind chimes" were.

"And a d35??? Jeez - we're constantly complaining about the weak point in solid axle d44
being the joint, and someone wants to go and build something with EXTRA U-joints in it?"

As far as the D-35 and the "extra" U-joint.. WTF is the diff if he used a D-44 or D-50 TTB same damn joints throughout! Hmm, maybe he should have went with unequal length A-arm IFS like on the current breed of race trucks, that would have saved a few bucks:rolleyes:

Bill, why don't you scrap your D-30 hybrid POS and go with a "real" axle. After all no one with a clue would put money into a D-30. Right... Come on, lets see a hydraulic steer 2.5 ton under that Jeep. That's what the "real" rock crawlers use, unless you like "kiddie mobiles" that is.

It's been said many times, to each his own.

As far as trolling for compliments, it's not even my rig. I just can't stand ignorance big difference.

One last thing Bill, I guess you've never seen Rangers entered in Desert Races with their D-28 or D-35 TTB setups... Amazing there have been hundreds.

Originally posted by Explorer
One last thing Bill, I guess you've never seen Rangers entered in Desert Races with their D-28 or D-35 TTB setups... Amazing there have been hundreds.

I was just going to say, there was one recently in Fourwheeler with the D28 TTB. Pretty cool the way they did it. Left the front ratio stock and put in a 9" with 6.xx:1 gears in it. Made up for the difference by modifying the transfercase (different sized sprockets in the chaindrive I assume)

Also, the last Tough Truck competiton I went to had a couple high flying BIIs with TTBs. Not sure if it was the D28 or D35, but it was definately one of them. They kicked butt over all the solid axle rigs that night.

I'd say the TTBs definately have their place when it comes to taking impacts. If you can make one flex too then more power to ya.

Here's your complaint "Nice engineering yea - for a wind chime or kiddies mobile? You HAVE to be kidding with that bent tie rod thingey."

That doesn;t sound very nice of me...I must of run out of smack that night, sorry !

let me re-phrase

Are their any concerns with the left side tie rod ling being bent like that without any gusseting. I'm not an expert at TTB, I understand why it's done - just that many solid axles rigs have had terrible experiences with Z shaped drag links, and it seems this link may also be an unintended weak spot?

TTB axles may have their place, but I used to wheel a fullsize bronco with a TTB and I HATED that front axle - constantly breaking and wearing out all the u-joints, and the shafts get hammered by the elements and quicly experience corrosion that leads to stress risers and failure. that's just my experience with them.




One last thing Bill, I guess you've never seen Rangers entered in Desert Races with their D-28 or D-35 TTB setups... Amazing there have been hundreds.

yea yea, but that's not what you showed, and not what this site is about. You were clearly trying to demonstarte the solid-axle like "flex" prowess of a TTB axle...and I was just saying...falls short of the mark. I mean - I could post a pic of a race car and say "check this awesome setup" and everyone would say WTF and I could just defend it with your argument..."Haven't you ever seen a race....." What's the point.

Bill, why don't you scrap your D-30 hybrid POS and go with a "real" axle

I am. It was neat idea, showed what can be done, built my confidence, and has served me well...but it's not really up to the task.



After all no one with a clue would put money into a D-30.

That is very true!

Come on, lets see a hydraulic steer 2.5 ton under that Jeep

I've driven Hydro steer equipment....don;t like it, couldn;t get used to no feedback. 2.5 tons are for troop carriers, dump trucks, and people who can;t afford 40 spline D60's :flipoff2:

It's been said many times, to each his own.
Yea, exactly...this obviously works both ways....you're clear to think it's cool, I'm clear to think it's not......we have that equal right!



. I just can't stand ignorance big difference

The big difference is between ignorance, and just differing opinion. I was perhaps a little harsh...i still don;t like it, and that tie rod still looks like a weak link, and there are WAY to many joints and u-joints and rod ends to maintain and keep tight IMHO

Now that is a reply I can live with Bill:D You explained yourself instead of just going off.

I don't expect that you read the whole thread, I usually skip around myself, but let me clarify a couple things.

1. Those are the only photos of the new setup since the truck had only been out once. So there aren't any photos of it jumping or doing high speed stuff.

2. I mentioned that the truck was supposed to be a hybrid, not a dedicated rockcrawler flex monster and not a dedicated race truck. Just something to have fun with and do it in a different way.

I agree that bent arm looks bad... I'm worried he's going to take it out while rock crawling, but I'm sure it's thickwall chrome moly so it should hold up fairly well.

I carry a spare tie rod in my tow vehicle, I hope he does the same.

As I mentioned to Lance, my truck doesn't do the high speed stuff nearly as well after doing the SAS. I'm going with coil overs very soon, (there sitting right here) so that may make it do better, but the TTB really shined in that regard.

A lot of the problems with TTB is having the lift brackets break or bend. With his setup he uses stock brackets. When combined with cut and turned axles they hold very well.

Here is a photo of Camburg Engineerings TTB Explorer Suspension

http://www.camburg.com/images/ExlporerCustom/1-Driversideshot.jpg

Originally posted by Explorer
5 points for anyone who can guess where the shot on the bottom in the previus post was taken.

we call it the "end of the pavement" on kane springs road

hehe bet you didn't think anyone would guess that huh??

:smokin: Good job! Can't wait to get back out there! http://www.explorer4x4.com/moab_rickair.jpg

:eek: :eek:

uhm...somebody found the "hole" on patatoe salad..

that musta been a good save!

112" is just right for Moab:D
http://www.explorer4x4.com/moab_rickdblwham1.jpg

http://www.explorer4x4.com/moab_rickdblwham2.jpg

Darn TTB just won't take you anywhere ;)

BTW, that was my truck before the SAS and the Great Pumpkin paint job.

Rick,

I really was being a cranky jerk....I'm sorry.

Mob mentality.....kinda fell into it, got carried away. My wife hates it when I do that. Quote "Are you on that 'black site' typing like a redneck again?" My bad.

I should have been more observant too...I can imagine you're tired of closed mindedness, having chosen to build an Explorer...and I can relate..having chosen to build an XJ.


And I'm not the TTB hating goon I pretended to be. In fact - many's the time I used to try and defend the Hummer by explaining to people that it was never dsigned to be the "ultimate offroad vehicle" despite what Hollywood says, but that it was meant for high speed tactical battlefield use. And having ridden shotgun with a Marine Corporal - the IFS.IRS works really well for what it was designed.

PS - I like the great Pumpkin paint

It sounds like you guys might be able to direct me to the right people to find what I'm looking for. I recently did a SAS on my 89 Bronco, and I need to replace the front coils that I used (6" lift coils from a 79 Bronco) with some that are softer and allow more travel.

Here's the problem.

http://www.soderblom.net/t/coil.jpg


Here's witout the coils installed:

http://www.soderblom.net/t/up.jpg
http://www.soderblom.net/t/down.jpg

I found one place that will do custom progressive coils, but it's about $400, and I'm hoping you all might know of someplace that'd be cheaper. I may end up having to cut and extend the upper coil mounts, since my minimum length right now is 14" and extended length is about 33".

Any thoughts? Thanks, guys.

No problem Bill.

bsoder, A lot of people like the Wild Horses Progressive springs for the Bronco.

yea, if I remember right, early bronco coils & fullsize coils use the same mounts, just the early bronco coils tend to be softer. If you ask that question on the Ford board, I'm sure someone will know for sure.

Heres an idea i have been playing around wit for some time now. Why not run a TTB front and rear? Would kick ass on the high speed runs, no? Just put another engine crossmember in the back, and fab some coil buckets. I would use the d50 ttb front a rear of course. But that 20" of travle would be cool on all four corners.

Originally posted by SMC
Heres an idea i have been playing around wit for some time now. Why not run a TTB front and rear? Would kick ass on the high speed runs, no? Just put another engine crossmember in the back, and fab some coil buckets. I would use the d50 ttb front a rear of course. But that 20" of travle would be cool on all four corners.

Biggest problem I see with that idea is where are you going to find a transfer case that has a driver's side front output and a passenger's side rear output? I suppose if you had enough wheelbase you could use a centered rear output and run your rear driveshaft at an angle.