I currently own a 94 1500 chevy with a 350 I need to know if the Air Aid thottlebody spacer is worth the money.

give your head a shake
do you really think the factories would fawk up by a 1/2" when making intake manifolds?

i agree, if it really made a difference then gm would have made it that way.

worked on mine.

Added some nice blue color to the engine to match the paint.

That alone is worth what 20 hp?

So I guess that k&n air filters, rooler rockers, msd boxes, and throttle body spacers dont work because GM does not use them. And 37" mtrs, or boggers dont work either cuz GM did not use them either. WRONG!!!
Expect 1-3 more mpg and at least 10-20 hp with the spacers on your throttle body!

Expect 1-3 more mpg and at least 10-20 hp with the spacers on your throttle body!
Is that from the spacer alone, or in conjunction with other mods?

Throttle body spacers are a waste of money. They only time a spacer works is on something that has lots of mods. But hey its your $$ not mine.

...Expect 1-3 more mpg and at least 10-20 hp with the spacers on your throttle body!
gm (and all the makers of trucks that dont meet the rediculous 20-something mpg standard set by the government) wouldnt pay thousands of dollars of fines imposed by the gov because they arent meeting their stds for milage. if 1-3 mpg were that easy, then they would have cast the intake so it was taller than they did. sh*t, they would have made it 2" tall and made their trucks get 50 mpg. :shaking:

dont u think that the cost of adding 1/2 inch to the manifold would be offset by the increased sales that a truck getting that much better milage would have?

maybe that 10-20 extra horses you have has more to do with those roller rockers.

you probably got one of those spiral spacers that spins the air too! :laughing:

So I guess that k&n air filters, rooler rockers, msd boxes, and throttle body spacers dont work because GM does not use them.

ding ding ding
we have a winner
k&n doesnt do anything
roller rockers do not do much but roller lifters do a lot which is why Ford started using them and chev followed their lead
roller tips do next to nothing but a roller fulcrum helps
msd box doesnt hold a candle to the DIS units the factories are now using that use a wasted spark, I presonally wouldn't use a cheapo MSD if it was given to me

throttle body spacer is the best ripoff gimic going right now IMO
I wish I had thought of it
amazingly enough I wouldnt have believed people were stupid enough to fall for it
shame on me for underestimating the populous

...I wish I had thought of it
amazingly enough I wouldnt have believed people were stupid enough to fall for it
shame on me for underestimating the populous
bahahaha! :laughing:

MJ, has hit the nail on the head! TBI spacers are a waste and you will notice nothing....except maybe less :beer: $$ in your wallet. Seriously, save your hard earned money. You will not get the gains clamied by the makers.

I have heard some positives about this product though over on Chevytalk.com http://hypertech.com/powercharger.html

so u people claiming 10-20 more ponies, did u test that on a dynamometer? (even those results could be tweaked to say almost whatever you want it to say, but are still far more accurate than your 'seat of the pants dynamometer')

people that say they can feel the power difference between, say a clean paper air filter, and a k&n, make me think of people doing medical studies taking the placebo. ever heard of the placebo effect? its when your mind expects a certain condition or response to something, and it fools itself into believing it is happening. :shaking:

For a Throttle body I have heard if you get it bored out to Marine specs it helps alot also.

I think the best bang for my buck was getting the ECM reprogramed. And I dont mean adding like a chip or a reprogramer. I mean sending the ECM to a performance programer.


oh yea, and the nitrous fogger kit. :D

off subject, but could the ecm be reprogrammed to handle a cam more that 204/214 (iirc)? thats the biggest cam avail for tbi sbc. tried tbi on a sbc with a bigger cam than that and the map signal is out of the factories parameters and the engine drowns itself in fuel til it dies.

what about boring out the throttle body? who does that? i pollished mine (the butterflies, air inlets, and injector housings) to smooth out flow, but bigger openings would be awesome for when i build her into a 383. it sucks howell efi discontinued their 4 bbl tbi unit.

I dont remeber where I read about boring out the throttle body spacer, seems like may have been on Colorado k5. Read it in a few places. If IIRC theres a place in Arizona that does it. Sorry I know thats not much help.

As far as reprograming the ECM, they can do alot to it, I guess it would depend on where you send it. Read a post here asking about where to send the ECM to be reprogamed just recently and ppb guys listed like 3 places.

you know the answer...........search

off subject, but could the ecm be reprogrammed to handle a cam more that 204/214 (iirc)? thats the biggest cam avail for tbi sbc. tried tbi on a sbc with a bigger cam than that and the map signal is out of the factories parameters and the engine drowns itself in fuel til it dies.

what about boring out the throttle body? who does that? i pollished mine (the butterflies, air inlets, and injector housings) to smooth out flow, but bigger openings would be awesome for when i build her into a 383. it sucks howell efi discontinued their 4 bbl tbi unit.


Talk to the guy at affordable fuel injection. http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com

He did a computer for me for my TPI for my cam 214/222 @.050 and .488/.509 lift. TPI is a little different but mine is manifold air pressure so the cam restrictions are still there.

Wouldnt it just be easier & cheaper to buy a new/used throttle body instead of boring one out? If you bore one out you have to have a new butterfly made. Then you have to pray to god that the new butterfly is sized properly, otherwise you'll have a high idle from hell. Just fork out the money for a new larger one. Heck buy an aftermarket fuel injection kit.

well the "seat of your pants dyno".. i like that term by the way....
i disagree about the k&n air filter doing nothing.
i have an 89 blazer with a tired old 4.3 in it, and i took out the cheap 8" paper air filter, and put in a 10" k&n, and used a die grinder to cut away the sides of the round air box. after i did that the truck would finally bury the needle again.. my home made highflow cost me 20minutes of my time and the price of the filter..

well the "seat of your pants dyno".. i like that term by the way....
i disagree about the k&n air filter doing nothing.
i have an 89 blazer with a tired old 4.3 in it, and i took out the cheap 8" paper air filter, and put in a 10" k&n, and used a die grinder to cut away the sides of the round air box. after i did that the truck would finally bury the needle again.. my home made highflow cost me 20minutes of my time and the price of the filter..
but was the paper filter clean or dirty? if it was dirty and you put a new clean filter on (paper or kn) it could make a big difference.

ya it was clean.the only reason i even put a k&n on the truck was because it was free LoL

off subject, but could the ecm be reprogrammed to handle a cam more that 204/214 (iirc)? thats the biggest cam avail for tbi sbc. tried tbi on a sbc with a bigger cam than that and the map signal is out of the factories parameters and the engine drowns itself in fuel til it dies.

what about boring out the throttle body? who does that? i pollished mine (the butterflies, air inlets, and injector housings) to smooth out flow, but bigger openings would be awesome for when i build her into a 383. it sucks howell efi discontinued their 4 bbl tbi unit.

You could try swapping in a TBI unit from a 454. I believe it flows like 600 cfm, where as the 350 TBI unit flows about 400 cfm. You would have to bore a little on the intake to make it work.

i disagree about the k&n air filter doing nothing.

i believe mj was referring to the fact that the air filter does nothing air filter-wise, not performance wise. just like how running no air cleaner is a "performance mod".

alot of the reason that the k&n filters work so well is simply because they remove the restrictive OEM filter box.

and the restrictive OEM air filter, leaving you with no air filter! yay im excited now!
:eyeroll:

and the restrictive OEM air filter, leaving you with no air filter! yay im excited now :rolleyes:

off subject, but could the ecm be reprogrammed to handle a cam more that 204/214 (iirc)? thats the biggest cam avail for tbi sbc. tried tbi on a sbc with a bigger cam than that and the map signal is out of the factories parameters and the engine drowns itself in fuel til it dies.

Check this... http://www.msefi.com/ :grinpimp:

I hate the double edit...:laughing:
...i disagree about the k&n air filter doing nothing.
i have an 89 blazer with a tired old 4.3 in it, and i took out the cheap 8" paper air filter, and put in a 10" k&n, and used a die grinder to cut away the sides of the round air box. after i did that the truck would finally bury the needle again.. my home made highflow cost me 20minutes of my time and the price of the filter..
I numbered your total mods:
1. Stepped up from 8" to 10" air filter.
2. Cut away sides of air box.
3. Installed K&N.
Two out of your three mods did not make for a straight comparison with the paper filter.

Look at the K&N filter gauze under light. Look thru the filter, that is. You will see visible holes. The oil will not stop dirt from passing thru holes you can see. If you can see holes with the naked eye, they'll let dirt particles thru that are too large to be measured in microns, the standard filtration media measurement used to gauge minimum particle size allowed thru a filter's media. Not good.

i bough some parts from this place...cfm technologies (http://www.cfm-tech.com/catalog/gm_tbi_performance_parts___accessories_126905_prod ucts.htm) i installed the fuel pressure regulator and gauge for my 454 tbi and pumped up the fuel pressure a couple of psi from what it was andit was a world of difference. i can now set the fuel pressure to what ever i want making it run leaner or richer. i also bought a chip from this guy...tbi chips (http://www.tbichips.com/) and it was a stage one chip to use with a 180 degree thermostat and it was only 70 bucks, and noticed a difference. he claims 10% more of what ur currently producing...just my .02

the only reason i cut the side out was because of the size of the filter. i actually kept the one i took out and got a stock air box to use in the winter.

This is a FACT!! Dyno proven about 2-3 months ago at our local F-Body Clubs dyno day. A fellow F-Body owner put his 1999(ish) Chev truck on the rollers. He pulled a pass on the dyno with his KN filter installed, then opened up the box, took it out and pulled a pass with NO AIR FILTER AT ALL. The end result was 1/2hp less at the wheels without the KN filter, so it picked up 1/2rwhp withthe KN installed!!
I dont have the sheets infront of me but I believe it was a 5.3l, mod chip, and exhaust, and it pulled about 240rwhp I think.

This is a FACT!! Dyno proven about 2-3 months ago at our local F-Body Clubs dyno day. A fellow F-Body owner put his 1999(ish) Chev truck on the rollers. He pulled a pass on the dyno with his KN filter installed, then opened up the box, took it out and pulled a pass with NO AIR FILTER AT ALL. The end result was 1/2hp less at the wheels without the KN filter, so it picked up 1/2rwhp withthe KN installed!!
I dont have the sheets infront of me but I believe it was a 5.3l, mod chip, and exhaust, and it pulled about 240rwhp I think.

it is doubtful that back to back dyno tests would be within 1/2 hp with no changes

Besides, would any quality paper filter do the same thing? K&N flows well because their filters don't filter well. The gauze has gaping (by filter standards) holes in it that allow for great air flow with poor filtration at the holes. Maybe good filtration where the oiled gauze has good coverage.

Besides, would any quality paper filter do the same thing? K&N flows well because their filters don't filter well. The gauze has gaping (by filter standards) holes in it that allow for great air flow with poor filtration at the holes. Maybe good filtration where the oiled gauze has good coverage.


agree 100%, you sacrifice filtration for performance. Also about the spacer, look for one with a money back guarantee. I do think they work, because high rise manifolds are always a good mod.

And to those who say--well GM would have done this and that to make it get better MPG. Do you even know the history of GM? They own a handful of patents to carburetors that were proven to get 30mpg on old V8 motors. Yet kept never put them on the motors. There are a lot of things that can make GM trucks better, but GM doesnt always put them on the trucks either for price, or because of standards.

I have to disagree with the post about K&N doing nothing. I installed a K&N FIPK kit on my trans am and noticed a 5-10 degree difference in tepature, and more power. I dont know if it was the cold air induction kit which removed the restrictive factory air box or just the K&N air filter. I believe it was the entire kit working in conjuction with each other.

...I dont know if it was the cold air induction kit which removed the restrictive factory air box or just the K&N air filter. I believe it was the entire kit working in conjuction with each other.
You disagree but then produce your own dead-on-right doubts which you then answer. I would credit the cold air induction upgrade with most of the improvement. You could throw a quality paper filter in there and see little or no change. But I'd bet that K&N designed the kit so that only their special filter sizes fit. Go try to find a non-K&N filter replacement. You see, K&N is smarter than they give us consumers credit for.

and noticed a 5-10 degree difference in tepature

that would make me nervous when all I did was change an air filter and the engine temp is affected

agree 100%, I do think they work, because high rise manifolds are always a good mod.
the reason high rise manifolds work for high rpm engines is the entry angle of the incoming air charge. right where it bolts on to the head, the angle is more inline with the way the air flows through the head. a throttle body spacer does not change this entry angle.

And to those who say--well GM would have done this and that to make it get better MPG. Do you even know the history of GM? They own a handful of patents to carburetors that were proven to get 30mpg on old V8 motors. Yet kept never put them on the motors. There are a lot of things that can make GM trucks better, but GM doesnt always put them on the trucks either for price, or because of standards.
does anyone on earth have proof of this? do you believe in aliens too?

the sales generated by a truck with a powerful v8 that gets 30 mpg would be insane. everyone and their grandma would buy 1. shit, if this were so easy like u suggest, then some of the other manufacturers (that arent part of the gm bad fuel economy conspiricy :rolleyes: ) would make a car that gets 100 mpg on a small 4 cyl.

I know that there is also a retrofit you can make to a rochester to get 100mpg but chevron owns that patten. The man who invented the carb had a book on how to do it, when he died they bought all the remaining copies.
They also have engines made completly of plastics that decrease weight and increase efficency. There are also engines that run on hydrogen extracted from water.
Synthetic fluids increase the life of parts and does not deplete our natural resources.
There are tire compounds that can last the life of the vehicle and get as good as if not better traction than those of current technology.
The big four are out to make a buck, the engineers are instructed to engeneer themsealfs into keeping there job and company profitable. More complicated stuff that keeps you comming back to the dealer for cosly repairs.

and a flying saucer just went over my house!

















:rolleyes:

I hate when that happens

A throttle body spacer is a simple concept called a velocity stack, rip off? For the money you pay yeah ripoff but they do work. Ever seen a highrise intake manifold on carbs.

there is nothing similar between a velocity stack and a tb spacer

the high rise intake comment was already covered

all a tb spacer does is increase the plenum volume by a very small amount.
negligible
for all you know the plnum volume could be too high from the factory

Reddman, I was going to take on the 30mpg carb post but thought I'd caused enough trouble around here, lately.:D I'm glad I "left" it to you. Your take was funnier.:laughing: :laughing:


I think what the folks who equate throttle body spacers with high-rise intakes don't realize is the high riser's runners angle down to the heads from a higher point above the block than a non riser intake's runners do. So, a spacer on a non-riser intake makes the air go straight down for an inch (or more) before it enters the lower situated runners. The high-riser may have the same under-carb, vertical channel thickness as a regular intake with spacer, but the lowest point of the riser's vertical portion below the carb ends at a higher point over the block than a throttle body spacer and regular intake's vertical combined "throat" channel, all thing being equal otherwise. Thus, high-rise intakes have height, runner angle, and runner length differences with regular intakes sporting spacers.

mj, have I got that right. :confused: If not, I give up. :shaking: :D :laughing:

leaner = hotter more air=leaner

the computer will compensate for the increased airflow if there is any
if that small change in combustion temperature shows up on your engine coolant temperature gauge I would say you have some serious issues to attend to
my thermostat and radiator have maintained the same engine temperature, and therefore temp gauge reading, through several carb changes and now a conversion to propane.

oh yeah Poet,
you is on da money.

off subject, but could the ecm be reprogrammed to handle a cam more that 204/214 (iirc)?

I talked to AFI and per them am getting my cam reground to 214 intake and 224 exhaust @ .050 with a 4.3 V6. Thats as big they say to go with TBI V6

what about boring out the throttle body? who does that? i pollished mine (the butterflies, air inlets, and injector housings) to smooth out flow, but bigger openings would be awesome for when i build her into a 383. it sucks howell efi discontinued their 4 bbl tbi unit.

Summit sells a 670cfm 2 bl TBI unit for GMs. hope this helps out :grinpimp:

here are pics of what we are talking about for those of you who arent grasping this...

notice the angle at which the incoming air charge enters the head. this style is very similar to stock.

now check out this entry angle, much more inline with the way the air will travel once in the head, hence it will not have to make such a sharp bend into the head. this is why a spacer does nothing. :flipoff2:

oh for summit racing gets credit for these pics.

show the Victor series manifolds rather then the lemons :)

i just snapped pics of the first 1s i saw.

Reddman, now throw that tunnel on a relatively stock motor and see what it does to low rpm TQ and throttle rrsponse. It will KILL it, if it even runs at all. A tunnel ram is designed for max RPM runs and not much more. I agree with the "Just Say No to TBI Spacers" group, save your Damn money! They offer no "ram" effect what so ever and will NOT increase available air! Where the hell do you think the available air is going to come form anyway. This has been hashed out on several boards and the masses have noted no change in performance of any kind. Funny thing is there is always 1 or 2 people who say they have noted an improvement...I only wonder what state of tune their motor was in before and/or how do they come up with the "noted" performance gain. You will not see or feel a few extra HP or lbs/ft. of TQ in such heavy vehicles. Maybe if you tested TBI spacers on a go-kart you might note something....might?

does anyone on earth have proof of this? do you believe in aliens too?

the sales generated by a truck with a powerful v8 that gets 30 mpg would be insane. everyone and their grandma would buy 1. shit, if this were so easy like u suggest, then some of the other manufacturers (that arent part of the gm bad fuel economy conspiricy :rolleyes: ) would make a car that gets 100 mpg on a small 4 cyl.

I do have proof. I do not believe in aliens.Try to keep an open mind :D -----


Apr. 9, 1935

J1-A,1,19 CARBURETION, POGUE, Pat.#1997497

Charles N. Pogue is issued a Patent for a High Mileage Carburetor. (see 1/7/36)

"early 1936

J1-A,18 CARBURETION, POGUE

BREEN MOTOR CO., Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada: Tests the POGUE

Carburetor on a Ford V-8 Coupe and got 26.2 miles on one pint of gasoline. The performance of the car was 100% in every way. Under 10 mph the operation much smoother than a standard carburetor. T.G. Green, President of the BREEN MOTOR CO., did the tests. (see 1/7/36)"


"Apr. 30,1936

J1-A,18 CARBURETION, FORD MOTOR CO.

FORD MOTOR CO., Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada: Tests the POGUE Carburetor and is at "a loss to understand" how the carburetor got "25.7 miles on one pint of gasoline"! (That's approximately 205 mpg). Mr. W.J. Holmes and Mr. Purdy conducted the test for FORD MOTOR CO.

(see 1/7/36) "


"Aug. 10,1936

J1-A,18 CARBURETION, POGUE

S. Stockhammer tested the POGUE Carburetor on a 1934 Ford V-8 Coupe and got 28 miles per pint of gas. "I can say the performance was all anyone could desire in every shape of form." (see 1/7/36)"

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There is more if you are really interested. I checked the patent number on a government webpage, it checks out, the images are amazing. And the FACTS are documented and verified. :p

looking ay the spiral TB spacers I womder if the spiral actually creates an unstable airflow zone effectively reducing airflow

I do have proof. I do not believe in aliens.Try to keep an open mind :D -----
...There is more if you are really interested. I checked the patent number on a government webpage, it checks out, the images are amazing. And the FACTS are documented and verified. :p
Open mind here [but not about aliens:shaking:].

These quotes are worthless without links. Especially links to the U.S. Patent Office.:usa:

Open mind here [but not about aliens:shaking:].

These quotes are worthless without links. Especially links to the U.S. Patent Office.:usa:

These quotes are use on many sites, not sure where they originated from. A quick google search brought this up

http://www.himacresearch.com/books/crisis1.html


also to look at the patent go to

http://www.uspto.gov/

on the left side click SEARCH then patent number search. Enter 1997497 then click images to view the .TIF images. There are many other patents for high mile per gallon, this is just one small example.