I looking into opening a shop,a sales and service shop.I would like to have in sales dept,suspension lifts,shocks and accessories.I also will have a full service shop with custom 4x4 conversion's motor and transmission,axle rebuild or repair.
I now ask you as a customer, what would make your 4x4 shop better? I know this is a hot question but Thank you for any of your ideas.
:usa:

Save up the sach and start it debt free.


Why does this matter to me the customer?



Because when you get neck deep into debt, you show me you are not the best at business decisions. You also will more than likely not make it more than 3 years before you are filing for bankrupsy and/or shutting the doors for good.

Do it right - and you will be around for a LOOOOONG time, and that makes me happy as a customer.... a familiar place that has been around and will be around.... :)

It all depends on your location. Where is Sonora?

Are you going to be a 4WPW competitor (bolt-on mods) or will you be doing full custom rigs?

have the answer and have the options and let me tell you what i want. like for example if i come in with a cruiser and say i want to do a v 8 swap don't jump the gun and start the paperwork saying that you can have a 350 in and done in two days. maybe i want a 383 or 454 maybe i want ford or dodge.

second service, service and moreservice if i buy something from you and it fails and i was using it properly i don't want to hear to bad i want let me see what i can do or heres another unit

third i want a shop that has been there and done that no way will i go to a 4x4 shop where the owner drives only a ricer lowered and chopped

CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!

that, and i would want to see you out on the trail with the same stuff that you sell/fab. if you stand behind it and wheel it yourself, then youve got my $$$. also just be a cool guy, like f you do a suspension for a guy go with him on his first run with it so you can show him specifically how it works and why in the real world. and just so he knows that youre there if it breaks/doesnt work right. he can ask you right there on the spot.

and dont make things up to be more than they are. if you are selling a aftermarket u-joint that the manufacturer tells you is "by far the strongest thing out there" dont believe it automatically and go endorsing it as that. test things out before you sell hem, make sure YOU like it and would use it before you try telling others to.

good luck, wish i was in CA! :flipoff2:

As the owner of Essentially OffRoad I tell you customer service is #1. I dont force my ideas on my customers. I will educate you the best I can on the particular subject and you make the choice. I will tell you pros and cons. Dont ever underestimate the customer in front of you.
You must take care of the customer after the sale also!! You must be in the woods with your customers from time to time. That doesnt mean you take them riding..just let them know you are going and they are welcome.
You will most likely not get rich in this line of work, but you will meet many great people in this sport. I dont plan to get rich, but I enjoy my job 99.9% of the time. It also means you get to buy the cool sh%t cheaper! Good Luck, Rocky;)

and in order to match my current salary I would have to do about $150K a year ($3K a week) worth of business, with no employees. It seems pretty tough to do to me. Granted, I could live on less $$ per year if I didn't have to buy ANYTHING for my rig, cause it was all worked into the business, but I would still need to clear about $25K a year to put into house, car, etc, which would be tough to do.

It's sad to say but to make it with a shop doing lifts and offroad stuff... you would also have to sell the stupid stuff like lowering kits and dubs.
Theres a crappy shop in town tcalled the lift kit wharehouse that does more business selling lowering kits and budnick wheels and matching steering wheels then it does lift kits. and they are putting out a bunch of lame ass over lifted 3/4 ton trucks with lots of chrome.

I would like to some day get a shop going that does short production run fabrication for shit like bus stop garbage can holders and sign frames. and railings for refineries that would help fund the real business of Fabrication.
Seems that most shops I have worked for do some sort of side/contract work to keep things going.

I don't know if you Rubicon guys will remember this, but years ago, a guy from Pasco, Washington used to wheel his Jeep Shop truck up on the 'Con. It was turquoise and white, the same color as his shop. The shop is dirty and look like a tin building that has been beat to hell. There are old firetrucks and 1 ton p/u's laying around everywhere that have all had the axles stripped out of them. When you drive by one side of the shop you can see 6 bay doors, 4 on the other side. They throw the doors open in the summer time to cool the place down. The inside is spotless. There are trail rigs of every caliber on the lifts. From chromed out show trucks, to rigs waiting to fully GET IT. He doesn't advertise at all. Just through word of mouth. Al is gettin old now. People say he can be an ass sometimes, but damn it, when you have seen every newbie with a checkbook in your service office, you can't blame him for being a little cranky sometimes. The green and white tin shed off the side of the highway, faded orange sign, "Al's 4x4 and repair". He never had to do the bolt on chit. He swapped motors in hot rods in his down time.

Seems to me that most shops that really make it are known for somthing "IE" AOR in colorado is known for orbiteye springs somthing like that. All Pro is another example

service
Like others said. Listen to your customer and do what you are paid to do whether you liike it or not in a timely fashion.
I am not to sure on the replacement part (stand behind what you sell0 thing, Becuase your customers will come up with some pretty stupid ideas that you know will not work from the start.
Do not get all high and mighty and start looking down your nose at people and there rides. Looks can be deceiving.
Case in point: I went to this one 4x shop that is big in our area.
When they found out i wheel a ZJ they just became total asses.
They would not price me any parts at all. Not an Optima battery or a Clifford valve cover, sway bar bushings NOTHING.
I will never go back there. EVER.

Originally posted by Monkeyboy
I would like to some day get a shop going that does short production run fabrication for shit like bus stop garbage can holders and sign frames. and railings for refineries that would help fund the real business of Fabrication.
Seems that most shops I have worked for do some sort of side/contract work to keep things going.

This is a great idea to help keep cash flowing.

Originally posted by foley
and in order to match my current salary I would have to do about $150K a year ($3K a week) worth of business, with no employees. It seems pretty tough to do to me. Granted, I could live on less $$ per year if I didn't have to buy ANYTHING for my rig, cause it was all worked into the business, but I would still need to clear about $25K a year to put into house, car, etc, which would be tough to do.

It's going to be hard billing 3k/week without employees. How much time have you planned on to sell the services ? . There is going to be a lot of wasted time talking to potential customers that have no plans to buy the high profit stuff, they will pick your brain until you kick them out, and then they will say that you are a grouch. Plus, you will have to stop and start work all day long to deal with the bolt-on crowd who want to compare your price with the mags. or internet.

Don't limit yourself or the way you think. Trying to sell folks on what you like won't always work. I'm doing something similar out of my garage right now. I don't do chrome nerf bars and things, but I know what works on my rig. It's peiced together from different stuff, but it's the best combo I've played with so far, and it's simple. The trick though, I do more than lifted chevy's, we've also got a 69 2wd longbed chevy and an 86 lowered S-10 that are shop rigs. We diversified and now see more business. I don't mind lowering somebody's truck, it's there truck, whatever makes em happy.

Keep folks happy. Stand behind your stuff and show them on your rig what you've done and why. This makes a HUGE difference. Sams offroad will bolt on any damn thing they sell and tell you it's finer than snuff and not half as dusty, but you also don't see them running a bunch of the stuff they sell. In my opinion, if I'm gonna sell it, I want to know it works, and works well. That's what customers will want to see.

Align yourself with folks that are honest and upfront as well. Show that you are a good business and an asset to the community by joining the chamber of commerce and putting your name on the local high school football callanders. All this costs, but if the community likes you, then your image will be MUCH better.

We've got a local muffler shop (yea I know, mufflers, big deal, but wait) that has been around for YEARS. The guy has the best price, incredible work, and sponsors EVERYTHING he can. Everybody knows Roger and knows he's an upstanding guy. He's put about 6 chain places out of business just by taking care of the customer and being a good guy. Schools don't have to pay for exhaust work on any the buses, and the town loves him. He's made more than enough to retire, but he is having a ball.

Just my ramblings.

Good Luck

You'd better check into the whole insurance deal. Most land barons won't rent out to a shop that doesn't carry insuarance and most insurance companies won't give you insurance if you do custom work. At least not for cheap and you can imagine what "not cheap" is to an insurance company.

my two bits

Originally posted by crawlerfj40

I now ask you as a customer, what would make your 4x4 shop better?

Some way to see what I'm getting before I spend the money. By far the best thing would be having a friend with a rig similar to mine except he's got one mod I don't, and I can ride with him 5 minutes and see exactly what it will do for me. I'm not saying you can do this in a shop but the closer you can come to that ideal the better.

and in business a bad reputation travels faster than a good reputation:D the other day the wife had a nail in her tire and called a national tire company said they could do it tommorrow well i told her to go to this local shop i use for all my company equipment( and she didn't my name or company) well these guys have a stack of work like crazy but she is in and out in twenty minutes because these guys want the buisness and have hired, trained and staffed there places with the can do attitude. now last week i go in and have an allingment done well one of the rear is cuped and so they don't bill me thinking theres a strut problem which is covered under the warranty well come to find out it's an aligment problem long story short all my cars go there all my tires are bought there and all my company buisness goes there why th price is the same the owner stands by his work and when i have a problem which has happend once or twice it was taken care of promply and effectively

I too would like to open a shop but I need to quit spending $$ on my truck. I've got a friend that is very interested in doing this also. He's recently taken a job a 4 wheels parts (I know I know) just get some cash comming in, but with any luck I can get in part time just to get some experience in the biz. He has a garage that we'd like to start in. I'm looking into buying more tools to get started. Now if I can get started.

Note: on the opening shop part.....charge whats necessary, I understand that you have bills to pay, but when you go to a place and they want to charge $85/hr. and you know their employees are only getting $15/hr it just kinda makes you sick and say never mind. A recent shop closed because they just charged too damn much., i.e. $85/hr. Do it becuase you enjoy it and to make a living, not fund a team. Like said before, your reputation will bring your sucess.

Club discounts
and make your own club - (this will be time consuming at first - but you can have other club members take it over
look at the retired crowd - they like to get out

spec your kits - tell customers that these shocks are better and these springs are better if they are (example RE springs with someone elses shocks) knowledgeable customers save you headaches in the future.

two words that your shop must be big on

LAND USE!!

you will get clubs buisness and get good networking going to meetings PLUS help keep the trails open that make your buisness happen.

I know it is going to be a long process,but like a said before stick to what you are good at and the rest is easy.I would like to get a couple guys who would get into this and make it a 4x4 auto service center time money and just plain commitment is a major factor.I know a lot of guys cant work togather but i think if you are good at detailing and another is good at the automotive,and so on and to buy a couple of toy's to sell while you are slow to keep the doors open.I know and we all know the phone will not ring for days and walk in's are just that, then all of a sudden wam phone off the hook and people are buying like crazy.
I Thank all of you, and if anybody has some time some money and is good at what they know and is not afraid of commitment 7 days a week 14 hr days intell it is well on it's feet drop me a e-mail let's talk.
:usa:

That is very cool. I live about 10 mins away from Al's shop. I've had him get me hooked up with an ARB bull bar and winch for my Land Cruiser. I love the guys shop. There are always very cool rigs sitting around. What all can this guy do as far as custom mods go? Is he able to perform mods such as SOA, V8 swaps, axle swaps?
Thanks man

To go along with the CS theme treat your customer as if they were your last (even if they are CHIT HEADS) because being a small business you can't afford to loose a customer like the big companies can. I want to open one up here in IN eventually. I had had to draw up everything for one in my Business class it was pretty awsome. If you get lucky and you can fall into some land that would be awsome. Open a little park with the shop

Lozy:beer:

This may not be the popular opinoin, but as a small business owner and a good friend of a 4wd custom fab shop owneer, I would recommend against it. It sounds like you have a good job. Unless you just hate your job, I would start doing more and more fab work on the side and just slowly get your name out there and see where it goes. It would be difficult to bill 3K a week. You are going to have good weeks and bad weeks. Some weeks you'll have to turn work away or get backlogged and piss people off. Other weeks you'll have no work (and no $) for weeks on end. Then it'll all hit again all at once. On those bad weeks, the landlord still wants his money and so do the utilities and the insurance co. and the lease co. that you got your lift through and the hazardous waste disposal co. and the list goes on and on. Pretty soon you're hoping to have a good month just to catch up on the bills you didn't pay last month. David's right about the debt thing. Go into it debt free/WELL financed so that a bad month or two doesn't change your business plan over the long haul. Also, you have to budget for ADVERTISING, and it can't be the first thing you cut when things get tight. If you don't advertise, you don't grow. Period. Also, the general public is a funny thing. You depend on them to pay your bills, and want to fufill their needs, but they don't have your best interests in mind, they have theirs. They will tell you things that you know are wrong, want you to do things that will make you lose money, expect you to perform to levels that aren't always attainable, and to top it all off, you have to always try to smile and meet their often unreasonable expectations. It'll make you bitter real quick if you're not careful. Good luck, but if I were you, I'd consider keeping your day job, or at least the option of getting it back. :D

Originally posted by muddogbob
That is very cool. I live about 10 mins away from Al's shop. What all can this guy do as far as custom mods go? Is he able to perform mods such as SOA, V8 swaps, axle swaps?
Thanks man


The man can do anything. Just be prepared to pay for it. He is good, and he stands behind his work. Where at in Richland are you? I'm from Pasco. I lived one mile from his shop.

I agree with Aceguy. I used to have a Jeep Shop, Don't think I ever really made a buck, had to keep putting the profit back into it. Met a bunch of good wheelers that are still friends, had a bunch of fun, but didn't make any money...then again, maybe I just suck at business;)

FYRMAN,
I live in South Richland off of Keene Road. I am currently attending WSU and stay in Pullman. During the summer I come home to my parents house in Richland.
I know Al stands behind his work, b/c when he ordered me my ARB bull bar and the Warn winch didn't fit right, he contacted ARB and Warn and took care of everything. It took quite a while to figure out, and my truck was in and out of the shope quite a bit. Al was kind enough not to charge me for the extra hours my truck was being worked on.