Allright, so I have a BBF bellhousing hanging around and kinda need to know whether it's for a 400/early 460 or a late 460. So, how deep is the 400 bellhouisng and how deep is the 460 housing from the engine mounting surface to the transmission mounting surface?

Justin

What year and application are you refering to?? A part number would be helpfull. (it will start with a letter, a number, a letter and another letter, and a bunch of numbers, like D5UE-44456-3.) I assume the belhousing came from a t-18, t19 or a NP435. That belhousing will work for either motor, you just need to find the correct pilot bushing for the back of the crank, and mate that belhousing back up with the correct transmission. There is two pilot bushings. One is about 1 1/2" outer diameter(80's and up applications), and the other is like 3/4" or so. Both will have the same inner diameter. Stuff the end of the crank with some putty and mate the tranny to the engine. This will tell you which one you need. 11" clutches will fit with no problem, 12" will require clearancing on the belhousing webing if you have a belhousing from a 351M/400. I have an 11" Centerforce dual friction clutch setup and flywheel with less than 10K on it im lookin to sell if you dont have a clutch yet.

Allright, so I have a BBF bellhousing hanging around and kinda need to know whether it's for a 400/early 460 or a late 460. So, how deep is the 400 bellhouisng and how deep is the 460 housing from the engine mounting surface to the transmission mounting surface?

Justin
early/late 460? It doesn't matter.. the 351M/400/429/460 share the same bellhousing (and distributor!)

11" clutches will fit with no problem, 12" will require clearancing on the belhousing webing if you have a belhousing from a 351M/400.
When I swapped the 73' 460 (read: internally balanced) into my truck, I used the original 351M/400 bellhousing in my truck with a 12" clutch with no problems. No grinding/clearancing or any engagement issues.

The externally balanced 460s use a thicker flywheel then the internally balanced versions. This would account for one reason some people have to grind for 12" clutches and some don't. The thicker flywheel moves the clutch assembly back far enough to cause problems when using an externally balanced engine.

I can't comment one way or the other regarding differences in bellhousings from early to later models. I've never looked at later models to compare.

SPECULATION: It's conceivable that some people have trouble with PP to bellhousing interference due to varying dimensions between different brands of clutch assemblies. I have a 12" Valeo clutch assembly hanging on my 73' 460. The PP is fairly shallow when compared to the ZF PP on the 96' 460 I'm swapping in. Food for thought.........

When I swapped the 73' 460 (read: internally balanced) into my truck, I used the original 351M/400 bellhousing in my truck with a 12" clutch with no problems. No grinding/clearancing or any engagement issues.

The externally balanced 460s use a thicker flywheel then the internally balanced versions. This would account for one reason some people have to grind for 12" clutches and some don't. The thicker flywheel moves the clutch assembly back far enough to cause problems when using an externally balanced engine.

I can't comment one way or the other regarding differences in bellhousings from early to later models. I've never looked at later models to compare.

SPECULATION: It's conceivable that some people have trouble with PP to bellhousing interference due to varying dimensions between different brands of clutch assemblies. I have a 12" Valeo clutch assembly hanging on my 73' 460. The PP is fairly shallow when compared to the ZF PP on the 96' 460 I'm swapping in. Food for thought.........

The later model bellhousing is alum and set up for hydr clutch (a totally different piece than the old cast iron 351m/400). You can modify (lengthen) the fork and use it it with the linkage setup, I did.

the clutch clearance issues seem to be with the long style (3-finger) pressure plates, diaphram plates are thinner, there is enough room for 12". I used an 11" clutch and a 390 flywheel myself to be safe. And you need the smaller pilot bearing for the 2y(internal) crank.

SPECULATION: It's conceivable that some people have trouble with PP to bellhousing interference due to varying dimensions between different brands of clutch assemblies. I have a 12" Valeo clutch assembly hanging on my 73' 460. The PP is fairly shallow when compared to the ZF PP on the 96' 460 I'm swapping in. Food for thought.........

That's at least partly because the later bellhousing is deeper.

That's at least partly because the later bellhousing is deeper.
Are you talking about non-hydro bellhousings? I'm assuming that it was just the later 5 speed trucks that got hydro clutches, not the 4 speeds. Is that a correct assumption?

Regardless, I guess it makes sense that they deepened the bellhousings.

Are you talking about non-hydro bellhousings? I'm assuming that it was just the later 5 speed trucks that got hydro clutches, not the 4 speeds. Is that a correct assumption?


I parted an 85 F150 4X4 not that long ago. T-18, 4 spd and hyd clutch.

My understanding is that all of the post-79 blocks use a deeper bellhousing. I'm not sure where the difference is coming from, whether the back of the block and the crank extension is different, if the flywheel is thicker, or it's in the pressure plate. I don't have all the pieces sitting here to compare, so I can't say for sure.

But the hydro bellhousing I have here (85ish T19, IIRC) is about 3/8"-1/2" deeper than the pre-80 mechanical bells.

And yeah, the hydraulic clutches started in the mid-80s. This bellhousing is an E4TA aluminum one... so figure late 84 or early 85. The five speeds didn't come out until 88.

Hope that helps.

78 bronco with a 400, 3 finger 12" clutch and my bell housing fit just fine. It is the stock one which was on the bronco.

The externally balanced 460s use a MUCH thicker flywheel than the internally balanced ones. Because of this, ford DID deepen the bellhousing for the late (read externally balanced) 460's. The bellhousing I have is cast iron and set up for a mechanical clutch, don't know the PN as it is not infront of me.

By this, it could be for a late internal balance or an early external balance. All I really want is how deep the 400 bellhousing is so I can measure the one I have to see if it's for an internally or externally balanced motor. I'm getting ready to pick up an externally balanced 460 and if I have the measurement I can stop on my way to pick up the motor to measure the one I have to see if I need to get the bellhousing from the guy also.

I don't want to have to mix and match parts, so I want the housing/motor to match so I can use the PROPER pilot bearing, clutch, TOB - all that stuff.

All I need is a measurement.

And saf-t, thanks for the 1/2" measurement, but I still need to know how deep one or the other is so as to compare.

Justin

Well, here you go: The hydro bellhousing I have is 6-3/4" deep, face to face. The flywheel is about an inch thick. Both for a mid-80s 460 with a T19.

Thank you much, that was exactly what I was looking for :D

Justin