I'm looking for more bite from the brakes in my RRC.

Offroad they're fine but last week I found a dog in town that really wanted to play with rover and I only just managed to stop in time.

I'm running standard wheels (225/85 R16 all terrains), have solid discs all round and OEM type pads. Vented front discs are in the works but the pads I'm undecided on.

How do semi-metallics handle wet and cold conditions? Do they chew out your brake rotors?
Anyone used EBC pads on a rover?

Anyone experimented with smaller MC pistons?

What year is your classic?

What year is your classic?

It's an 85.

DBA cross drilled and slotted rotors with LR pads work good on my disco.

Probably the best Bang for the buck is to stick on some D90 Calipers and Rotors...
Vented rotors and much bigger calipers that will bolt on..
Why LR decided to put such big brakes on their lightest car (d90) and such puny brakes on the biggest car (at the time) is beyond me..


My Fat pig disco will actually lock up the tires (35/12.50) on pavment if you're not careful.

I also have the little Disco front calipers on the rear with a custom Bracket... This helps a lot out back but it seems I'm running out of master cylinder at this point... Maybe a residual pressure valve might help.

Probably the best Bang for the buck is to stick on some D90 Calipers and Rotors...
Vented rotors and much bigger calipers that will bolt on..
Why LR decided to put such big brakes on their lightest car (d90) and such puny brakes on the biggest car (at the time) is beyond me..

The defenders they sell over here (new zealand) have brakes which look suspiciously like the ones I already have. Solid front discs with similar four pot calipers.
Of course these are TD5, not V8 versions.
Paddock Spares (link below) are listing the same part number for discs to fit a D90 and 86-94 RRC.

Do you know the disc diameter? Mine are 298mm (11 3/4"). Do you know the model code for a US spec D90 (LA, KA etc)?

I've started getting parts from paddock spares in the UK www.paddockspares.com, if I can nail down the part codes this won't cost me much more than replacing my worn rotors. :)

DBA cross drilled and slotted rotors with LR pads work good on my disco.

I have a vented set of them on my RRC LWB, and will also be putting a set of vented ones on the front axle of the CrewCab. They do work nice.

The DBA catalog for Land Rover is here (http://www.dba.com.au/dba_catalogue_2004/HTML/pdf/Out/Landrover.pdf) . It contains siz information.

Vented and non vented are the same diameter, just thicker. Defenders after the 1994 (300TDI) change should have the vented discs in the front.

I'm not sure that just swapping to vented/slotted/drilled rotors will help the power much, but vented rotors are in the works anyway.

Any of the aussie members know a good mail order source for the DBA rotors?

So what about pads, anyone running other than stock (lockheed?) pads?

NAPA pads on my LWB, Lockheed on the CrewCab (Lockheed are better IMO).

Avoid slotted and cross drilled rotors if you do much wheeling in mud.

Avoid slotted and cross drilled rotors if you do much wheeling in mud.

Most of my driving is dry. Is the "avoid" caution for the simple reasons of them getting packed with mud or is there a more sinister explanation?

It looks like EBC rotors (vented/grooved, not drilled) are going to be cheaper than DBA rotors with generic vented rotors costing about 1/3 of those.

EBC hype up their "greenstuff" pads, but my experience with them on mountainbikes isn't good. No initial bite and no backup power. They also seem to fade pretty easy.

Rovers don't go fast enough to need good brakes! :flipoff2:

To make sure I have this straight....as I'm going to need newer brakes in the spring.
on my 87rrc(no abs). I can buy calipers for a d-90 and d-90 rotors, and not need anything else? I don't need a different bracket?

The NAS D90 Calipers by Lockeed and vented rotors will bolt onto any coiler until P38 RR's/ Disco 2
These calipers are the same as a 110 with a spacer to allow use of the wider vented rotor.

Have you checked the amount of engine vacuum to the brake power booster?
Brake power boosters require about 17" of vacumm to be truely effective, and rover V8's don't produce the best vacuum, at least not here at 6000'+.
Also, make sure the vacuum check valve is working properly, and that the booster is not leaking (vacuum that is).
I've had a diesel D90 (when I was at the Dealer) that the customer was complaining about poor brake performance, another tech diagnosed a booster problem - well it got replaced to no avail. After that it got handed off to me, I traced it down to a defective vacuum pump, brakes worked great after the pump was replaced.
If you engine is running properly, and you have found no problems with vacuum hoses, check valve, or booster, but are still only producing vacuum under 19-20", I would suggest an inline vacuum pump. I realize thats not factory, but would give you much stronger brakes. (Cadillac has done exactly that in th 80's). This upgrade will give you much more assist to the brakes, but obviously not affect brake fade due to heat - that is where the vented front rotors come in.

My .02
Jeff C.

http://www.dap-inc.com/acc_frm.htm check out their brake section. I wouldn't go with the kevlar pads though theres no need.

Hi There,

If you like more brake power, then an option could be to use very early 110 Calipers. These have bigger pistons, about 25% bigger than the later Defender setups, so therefore brake 25% harder.

Daan

[QUOTE=JCRover] I would suggest an inline vacuum pump. I realize thats not factory, but would give you much stronger brakes. (Cadillac has done exactly that in th 80's). This upgrade will give you much more assist to the brakes...


Has anyone gone this route - I find at low RPM, I have very little braking power - particularly of concern on those steep downhills offroad where even in 4low and 1st there isn't enough rpms to create sufficient vacuum. The pedal will go all the way to the floor and I will still be rolling along - pumping helps, but is sub-optimal. Anyone have any tech on this? Source vehicle for particular part?

Thanks,

NSG

Whiterover,
If your pedal is dropping to the floor then there's something else wrong. If you did not have enough vacuum, your pedal feels harder than normal (example: with engine off - pump brake pedal till no vacuum left in booster - pedal gets harder w/ each successive pump).
Normally, the only reason for a falling pedal is a fluid leak (external leak = visible leak, internal leak in master cylinder = invisible leak).

Jeff C.

Good information guys, please keep it coming.

I've got a turbo diesel powering this thing. The vacuum is via a pump on the back of the alternator which is under a year old so is clear of suspicion. Even hours after a shutdown there's still vacuum in the lines.
The diesel is also responsible for this vehicle being 300kg heavier (2300kg all up) and pretty much all over the front end. It tops out about 90mph on a flat road.

Daan, can you be a bit more specific about "early" when talking about the 110's? Those calipers sound exactly what I'm looking for (with new rotors of course).

Cheers
D

Hi dougal,

Not sure about partnumbers, I bought them on an autojumble. I will have a look tonight, and measure the piston diameter. Not sure what year your range rover is or what it is suposed to have anyway.
On Defenders, they changed the system at some stage with smaller pistons (including master cylinder). I have early calipers at the front and a modern mastercylinder, so improve leverage. I did this in order to compensate for 35" tyres. We all look at stronger drivetrains, but what about braking? Also, I rebuilt these calipers with stainless steel pistons, these transfer the heat much slower than normal pistons. discs are vented from a rangerover. I also built the system without a presure relief valve to make the rear brakes work harder to (not sure if a range has got this). The brake balance is right on my 88" hybrid.

Daan

There are also the front calipers that go on factory Salisbury coil-sprung axles. They are used mainly on armored riot-control Defenders, etc. The Salisbury coil rotor is VERY thick, but the sad part is those rotors are damn near impossible to find, and when you do they are about $650US. PER ROTOR. :eek:

I had a pair of the calipers sent to me on accident from Craddock, but rather than sending them back I had the center spacer machined down so that I can use stock vented coiler axles. The calipers are quite beefy, use the same pad as stock 110 brakes, and bolt into the stock coiler mounting points.

I have part no.s somewhere around here. I do not know if these are the same as *early* 110 calipers. Possibly so.

Hi Dougal,

No news about partno's here; My partsmanual only states D90s; I can tell you that the pistondiameter is about 46mm, so you can doublecheck whether this would make a difference to your setup. I found the box with replacement pads from AP Lockheed. The numbers mentioned here are:

6MTG 2530 99 301 2921
LPG506
disc pad axle set
VTS5A2/1130

With early 110, I mean 1983 onwards.

Daan

Whiterover,
If your pedal is dropping to the floor then there's something else wrong. If you did not have enough vacuum, your pedal feels harder than normal
Normally, the only reason for a falling pedal is a fluid leak...

Jeff C.

Jeff,
thanks
I did not describe correctly first time around - the situation quoted above is exactly the it - pedal is moderately stiff, driving around town it slows fine-but offroad I can push on it with both feet (will not go to floor) on a steep decline and not get the kind of stopping power necessary to halt forward motion- pumping makes pedal harder -particularly bad at low rpms - no visible or invisible leaks to speak of, or at least no loss of fluid (reservoir is full)

Of note, maybe, is that I pulled the ABS the cb way (disconnected it) and put in a mastercylinder from an '87 rangie - (the truck is a '90)

???

When I pulled my ABS out of my '90, I never felt like I had the firmness that I wanted as well. I also put in a MC out of a Disco, and have thought that I needed a proportioning valve.

Do you have one in your system? How did you deal with the front dual-lines?

There is something wrong with your brakes. Off road you should need very little pedal pressure to hold the vehicle. I've known guys with 6000 lbs Discos and they have no braking problems.

Hi Dougal,

No news about partno's here; My partsmanual only states D90s; I can tell you that the pistondiameter is about 46mm, so you can doublecheck whether this would make a difference to your setup. I found the box with replacement pads from AP Lockheed. The numbers mentioned here are:

6MTG 2530 99 301 2921
LPG506
disc pad axle set
VTS5A2/1130

With early 110, I mean 1983 onwards.

Daan


I measured the slave piston diameters today in my 85 RRC which has solid discs all round. Both front and rear pistons came out at 41.3mm. So defender calipers with 46mm pistons will give me the extra 25% clamping force I'm after.

Thanks for the quality info guys, it's often hard to find on the web. :cool2: