For the last month or so, I have had bad death wobble in my XJ.
I have replaced all my tie rod ends and that didn't help. I don't
know what it is. Any suggestions?

What size of tires are you running?

Anything that is loose in your front end will produce the Death Wobbles- tie rod ends, ball joints, worn or loose upper/lower control arm bushings- you name it. So you'll have to eliminate all the possibilities one by one.

You've already replaced the tie rod ends so that shouldn't be a problem as long as they're tightened down correctly. Next, make sure that the draglink ends aren't worn and correctly tightened. Now carefully inspect the *WARNING! WARNING! BRAIN FART! BRAIN FART* stupid part that locates the front axle left & right. On the chassis end it connects to a tower bolted up to the frame. Make sure those bolts are properly torqued. The check the steering box and it's mount. Make sure the frame hasn't cracked and the bolts are tight. If the box is worn, that will give you the DWs. Check the whole setup for anything I forgot to mention. ANY play in any of the steering linkage or locator arms WILL result in DWs.

Just one more thing: a steering dampener will NOT cure the Death Wobbles. It will only hide it long enough for something to REALLY come loose and send you off the road. I know many will disagree, but I think you should chuck the steering dampener. Mine fell off on the way to the Rubicon one summer and the only reason I noticed it is because the steering felt better

There are a bunch of different things it could be. Your front trac bar joint could be blown out, front castor could be off if you just lifted it more than say 3 inches with out checking the castor. Tire ballance is a big cause on bigger tires, you could just check their balance. Front disk brake rottors could be warped. I used to get this on my TJ a bunch, and 70% of the time it was tire ballance. May be 20% it was disk rottors, and the other 10 was after my lift and that cause was the castor. Hope this helps.

I have a 6" lift with 32's and I balanced the tires and got a new
hiem joint on my track bar and made sure nothing else was loose.
I got an alignment and the caster angle was 3.0 degrees, wich
way should it go and how far?

check the ball joints and toe in...if you have more than 1/8" toe in thats your problem......I get mine aligned tehn reset teh toe in so it @ zero

Check ur LCA brackets...just replaced mine...they are papper thin and get hogged out easly..Rusty,s has a beefier set for $60.:D :flipoff2: :p


:jeep: __(OIIIIIO)__rOkOn:usa:

Do a search, this has been covered a million times.

Long threads on this subject.

I try to read all of them and I seem to remember TOE is the largest offender.

After replacing everything I had in the front end, mine was toe in.

tooooo much toe in...:)

The ROOT cause of death wobble is high scrub radius. Scrub is caused by improper backspacing of the wheels. Changing your caster, camber, toe, ball joints, rod ends, tire balance, etc. will cover it up and change the harmonics to a different speed. The proper way to eliminate death wobble is to correct your scrub.

If you draw an imaginary line through both of your ball joints (looking from the front), the line should come about 1 inch below the center of the tire. The distance between the center of the tire and this line is your scrub. Anything over 1 inch can cause death wobble.

Sometimes with large tires and wheels it is impossible to get the proper scrub.(brake clearance and fender clearance) This is why I don't like wide wheels.

What about a U joint w/ play in it; could that start DW? The reason I ask is I recently started getting DW and it only happens at highway speeds, when going over a series of bumps. At which time my U joint starts its clunking, which in turn causes the whole suspension to start its DW. Coincidence or serious possibility this is the cause?

Colby

If scrub is the case, then why was I getting the DW with factory rims? As soon as I ballanced the tires it went away? Shouldnt factory rims have the proper scrub from what you are explaining? I don't think thats the case.
I do agree though that Toe in/out plays a big roll though, I keep mine at anywhere from 1/4-1/8th of an inch toed in, and it does change a bunch after a lift.

DORFS ON WHEELIN...........I think he knows as much as DORFS on golf.......ITs obvious that the dude's been smokin some good sh*t...... Amazing how many of us have experienced this DW with factory wheels...he probably got his info from SEARS

I may be wrong on this, but I think jeeps are supposed to run about 5 degrees of caster, you said you have 3 degrees, try to adjust some more in. With 6" of lift, ya probably lost some, and when the bushings wore to where they are now, the DW has the opportunity to rear its ugly head.

As for the scrub radius thing, it may be important for running a slolom, but for a wheeler, to hell with it.:flipoff2:

Ken

Yea, SEARS, that is where I get my info. Good one. I have had approx. 12 cars a day on an alignment rack for over 14 years. I know my alignment angles and their effect. It isn't worth smokin' anything if it isn't good! As far as factory wheels causing DW, I can't say that some manufactures didn't make mistakes. But it is the root cause. If you had no scrub, ie. the lines intersect, you can experiance a squirm. The point of load of the vehicle follows the line intersecting the ball joints, this is both forward and aft (caster) and lateral (s.a.i., or king pin inclination). Nothern AZxj, are you sure you even know what DW is? Your probably think you get DW when your tire is out of balance.

kwranglin is correct, as far as wheelin' who cares? But build a dual purpose rig, don't complain about DW with high off-set wheels on the way to the trail.

I guess I just don't see the scrub being important here. I used to always get the DW when I was driving straight at around 45-55 MPH. Seams if the offset of the rims was playing a roll there it would be when you turned or something.

I have adjusted over 50 XJ's with this problem and none have come back without a problem....maybe scrub is a term where you are from...but I believe what you are really talking about is toe-in.......I think.....thats what it is called in the real world at least......let me know where you work so I dont send anyone there!....you are like most alignment guys I atke my XJ there....get it adjusted tehn take it home and correct it with my tape measure!........no Im not an alignment specialist but I ahve never heard of wheels with an " or two of wheel backspacing difference changing the effects on the setup....the wheel still has a flat WMS and the angles of intersect will not change because of wheel width change....that is impossible!......the point of intersect will but that will not make any difference.

I had the same thing and it was one of my rear tires that was 14oz out of ballance

This has nothing to do with tire balance.......or the rear this is a front end problem only....

Originally posted by NothernAZxj
I have adjusted over 50 XJ's with this problem and none have come back without a problem....

I guess that makes you 0 for 50. One of these days you will get it right!

http://aligncraft.com/terms/terms.html#Scrub Radius

....hehehehe...I guess I should have said with a problem...lol.....long day.....and thank you for the SCrub info....but it proves my pooint that it by itself can not couase DW but will be a tirgger for it to happen.....there still must be an underlying problem.

Scrub is an issue. The offset or back spacing does make a difference. The problem I have found is that it doesn't seem to be just one thing. Ball joint tension, the Track bar joints, toe, caster, can all help to fix it. Many times it is a combo of all of them.

You need more caster than 3 degrees.

Get hydro-assist and forget about it. Go ahead and shim up the caster on that front end to get your angle right and get the diff/shaft out of the rocks.

Originally posted by Cochese
Get hydro-assist and forget about it. Go ahead and shim up the caster on that front end to get your angle right and get the diff/shaft out of the rocks.


Ummmm, how do ya shim coil springs?:flipoff2: If ya rotate the front end to get the driveshaft higher, you'll be losing castor not gaining castor and make the problem worse than it already is. :flipoff2:

but like We have arlready said there are many out there who have experienced DW with stock backspacing rims......there still is an underlying problem that causes it to happen....for me the RE trackbar works loose, and of course ball joint problems....hard articulation is tough on the steering joints too...mine @ one time had wallowed out....the biggist improvement That I ahve done is to install Grand cherokee steering in my 88 XJ....the setup is a little different and no DW since...install took only 30 minutes and set everything up with tape in driveway then had it check @ johnson alignment....no adjustments needed......He will be doing the steering conversion on lifted XJ's in the future when problems arise.

What type of steering does the Grand Cherokee's have?
How much would it cost to switch over to ZJ?

Originally posted by norcalXJ
I have a 6" lift with 32's and I balanced the tires and got a new
hiem joint on my track bar and made sure nothing else was loose.
I got an alignment and the caster angle was 3.0 degrees, wich
way should it go and how far?

I would try adding a few more deg of caster.
In my travels lifted front suspensions like XJ or TJ sometimes require as much or a little bit more caster.
It can't hurt kick it out a bit see what happens.

I have my upper cotrol arms adjusted as short as they go.
My lower arms are adjusted all the way out, so i cant give it any
more +castor. And it still has DW.

What type of steering does the Grand Cherokee's have? I picked up the entire setup from my local wrecking yard for 95.00 including the stabalizer.....it bolted on directly in less than 30 minutes....
.
http://imagep.webphotos.iwon.com//1000022638/1000022638_2192002103229PM9.617251E-02.jpg
.Stock steering setup
.
http://imagep.webphotos.iwon.com//1000022638/1000022638_2192002103234PM7.321894E-02.jpg
.95 ZJ steering setup...much beefier...much tighter feel...probably the cheapest and best thing I have done to the XJ

Just Get a New Jeep!:flipoff2:

ahhh, I see a fellow Jeeper who has to wrench in the rocks... :D (gravel driveways suck) That is a sweet setup tho.


BTW, what's up with norcalXJ & 87XJ's sigs....

ahhh, I see a fellow Jeeper who has to wrench in the rocks... (gravel driveways suck) That is a sweet setup tho.


Just makes me feel like IM on the trails......lol