Building a Garage/shop, I would like some advice or suggestions

[jheady]

I wanted to hit everyone up for their opinions on a detached garage.

I have been pricing with builders for getting a "shop" built for my jeeps and toys. I don't have the time or I would actually build it myself, and I know I can't get it completed it a timely fashion so contractors seem to be my best option. I have only been looking at Post Frame (wood frame) construction with metal roof and siding. I have gotten bids from $10k to $18k (Just the building)for my specs so far. I am going to do the site prep, electrical, water, and concrete myself. My basic bid is for a 10' ceiling height, but open to the roof. I have also asked for the possibility of a 12'6" ceiling height which breaks out about $900 - $1k additional cost. While it is not much money compared to the cost of the structure, I just can not justify that with selling it to my better half like I have for the 10' ceiling. From what I have researched so far, the 12'6" would also give me the option of adding a lift if I would like in the future. I just need a good sell pitch to get it done.

I wanted to see what you other guys have built or paid for something similar.

Here are my present specs:
* 30'x40'x10' - basic open floor contruction
* 2 - insulated 8'x10' garage doors
* 1 - man door with window
* insulation/vapor barrier (insulation specs (R-value = 3 - 6) so far have practically been just a vapor barrier unless I want a more costly avenue.)
* 1ft over hand all the way around
* possibly 2 windows
* provisions (bandboard) on backside of 40' for possible 15' shed at a later date

Stuff for me to do:
* Electrical and water supplies to the building from my house
* 1 frost free hydrant in the building
* Internal wiring w/ a 220v box or two, at minimum 4 boxes per wall w/ more around "work" area
* at least 6 or 8 - 8' ceiling lights
* concrete and gravel for the pad and gravel for the turn around (parking) area. I am still determining how big it will be
* Heat source at a later date, I am exploring options at this time.
* Possible floor drain with pipe out the back at this time.
* Find another Fridge for the cool pops.

Anyone have any suggestions on things I should consider before signing a contract? I know there are somethings that are better tackled while under initial construction, but I want to try and make sure I don't miss any thing major. I have read through CAMO's build up twice and he does have a nice building, I just know I won't be able to swing it with the boss.

Thanks for any insight or input you may have.

Joey

[glfredrick]

The post and beam with metal is a viable construction option, my own shop was built that way and I really liked it except when it rained - it was noisy in there. More insulation would have helped.

Couple things that you want to think about...

1. Ceiling height. With nice 2 post lifts selling in the $1600 range, you will want to make sure that you can raise a vehicle high enough to walk under it. That will mean that at least the center section of the shop should be built high enough to accomodate a lift. Most guys don't even think of a lift in a home shop, but I would factor one in on the costs right up front... You would never regret it.

Check out this company... (My son just installed one of their 10,000 # low ceiling lifts in his shop - they are nice and fit under a 10 foot ceiling. It took one day to completely install the lift ourselves, including wiring - runs on standard 220.)

http://www.completehydraulic.com/lifts.htm

2. Floor. If you are thinking of things like floor drains, they have to be in place before you pour the floor. I made a dry well for mine by burrying a 55 gallon barrel, which was filled with course rock. Punch holes in it so it drains out, then hook up a drain pipe from the floor to the barrel. That may or may not be legal in your neck of the woods, but they are sure handy just for the times when you mop the floor. Of course, you don't want to pour stuff down there that hurts the ground water, just drippings from cars, etc.

Next, think about the type of finish you want - I used the semi-polished finish which was great. Very easy to sweep up and clean up, and not too slippery like epoxy or highly polished floors. You can even run a broom across the concrete in several places if you like to give traction, but that generally isn't needed.

Also, IF you are thinking about a lift, pour some deeper pads around the area where the lift posts will anchor - I'd make them at least twice as large as the pads themselves (they are 14" square on the lifts above) - and I'd pour 6" deep instead of the more normal 4". It also helps to have your water pipes in place before pouring. Pour right around the hydrant pipe, or pour in a couple larger sleeves so that you can pull in the electric, gas, and water from under the slab (if you are burrying the stuff).

3. Doors. I'd make sure that you have high enough doors. If you are on Pirate, that means that you are messing with lifted off-road stuff. A standard door simply doesn't cut it. Add a section to make them taller for sure. You'll be really glad you did. Note: On the post and beam/steel construction, it doesn't cost that much more to go taller... Also, I'd stick in more than 1 service door unless your lot is set up in such a way as to make that unneccesary. I ended up with 3 in mine - one on the entrance side, and 2 more in the rear to get at my stash of steel and parts.

Otherwise, it sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the details.

[jheady]

Thanks. You are reaffirming some of my planning.

I wanted to add a few things since we are thinking similar solutions in many areas. I would like 12' ceiling a whole lot, but I also like being married. I am not saying it can't happen, but there has to be a convincing arguement to support the need. The boss is fine with the 10' but now I would be changing so I need to back it up with something better than I just want it. I don't dare tell her that I am going to put a lift at this point, she will just see more $$$.

Floor drain. To get the building in place I planned on sticking the pipe out the back for now. I do plan on getting a distribution box (Which is about the 55 gal. drum size) and burying it with a short run of drain tile off it. The floor drain would just be for dirty water or floor spray. It wouldn't be a whole lot, so the "drum" or box should be able to handle it.

My cousin does flat work concrete for a living. I know he is going to do my floor so finish and drain area are covered. I am planning on a smooth finish with some control joints sawed in so it won't be bad for sweeping and clean up

The electrical line is going to be buried. The building will be about 100' from the house so I want to make it as secure as possible. I am building on my 5 acre lot so I have the space available. I am planning stubbing a 3" or 4" pipe through the concrete for the electric. I will probably run a 2" pipe up through it to the box.

I am going to build at least a 1' box for the water spigot to be in. I want to make sure that if I ever need to replace the hydrant I can do so without busting up the floor. Plus the gravel in the box will drain any small amounts of water for the quick hand washes.

[tsm1mt]

I've seen guys cut trusses and install a lift such that the rig is THROUGH the ceiling when up in the air. :D

I think, short of putting in a lift, a 10' ceiling is just right.

One thought I've been having is building a 10' wall, but then putting in a "cathedral" ceiling on one end of the shop for center lift clearance. You wouldn't have a flat ceiling on one end, it would be peaked in the center to provide more room for a rig on the lift.

The downside I see to a 12' or 14' or 16' ceiling to clear the lift is you end up heating all of that extra dead space.

I would bury an extra run of 2" PVC conduit from the house to the shop while I have the trench there.. feed a rope through it while you're burying it.

You can then run telephone, ethernet (Internet), cable-TV, etc. through there later. :D

[glfredrick]

I really like the idea of the extra 2" conduit burried... That would be great - especially with a pull rope (could be clothesline) already installed. Any new line could be easily done for cheap. Just remember that you can't pull electrical line in parallel with other lines like phone and computer. The electrical interference would completely kill the signal. I've pulled in around 50 miles of computer and phone line cable in my days, and that is an absolute rule - so run the electrical in a separate and spaced conduit.

Also the idea of cutting (or using cathedral modified) trusses for clearance is a good one. All you really need is room for the top of the vehicle in one spot and with 10 foot ceilings, the actual center of the truss would be more like 15 foot - plenty...

BTW, the low clearance lift that that company I posted sells fits under a 10 foot roof! My kid's shop has went without lifts for over 30 years becsaue they only had 12 foot ceilings. When they found out that they could still install a lift they went crazy... It was a one-day decision and the next day they had a working lift.

[jheady]

Got it covered. I am planning on running a separate line in the same trench with the water, it will also be at least 3' from the electrical trench. I was planning on putting phone, data, and some pull cord for later. I don't plan on putting cable to the building, but I like the option if I need it. It will also have it's own sleeve entrance into the floor as well.

glFredrick - I just noticed where you are located. I am only about 35 miles from Lou-ville.

[ddjjeep]

I am building a shop this spring and Im planning to use this :http://www.socketsystems.com/ to frame it up. Then use wood siding and metal roofing. Worked out to be a little cheaper than stick building the whole thing (in my area anyway) It will have 12' eves and no trusses to get in the way of the lift.

[Reflexx]

Hello all,

i just purchased a MIRACLE TRUSS ( www.miracletruss.com ) building 30' x 48' x 10' eaves. It took me 4 months of research. I'll be documenting the build here ove the next few (6+) months. I'm building the "garage-mahal" with all the goods (AC, HEAT, 220v & 110v all over)

These buildings are more $$ than a regular "steel" building. The trusses are steel and they use wood purlins & girts (wall and roof beams). This allows you to use regular insulation and drywall/finishing techniques. PLUS you DON'T have to have an "erection" company construct it for you. I figure two people and about 20 days (not it a row) to have a "box" (roof/walls/windows/doors installed) and anther 10 days for drywall 7 electrical.

My build cost will be upwards of $40k (finished with four rooms, doors, windows, insulated, electrical, etc, etc...) It's also going to be my new place of business.


Let me know if you've got questions. I believe you do something once, and do it right. Plus it's a huge boost to my property values, because it's not just a "shed"

Reflexx :D

[fj40guy]

If you can raise that roof... you'll have that much more storage around the walls! I have 14' walls, now wishing I had gone 16' (I had planned on a 4:12 pitch on the roof, but that was $$$ I went with 1:12, but didn't raise the walls higher!) Opps.

Also if you're doing the concrete work your self... don't over look having a 2' tall mud sill. So you're 10' tall building will be 12' above the floor. Yes, adjust your doors.

8' x 10' garage door. Bigger the better. One reason I went with the 12' x 12' door was so the Tow vehicle/trailer/rig on trailer could all pull in. I've gotten home late and just wanted "put everything away and mess with it later". Pulling into the garage with the rig on the trailer gives you that option. (Everything was soaking wet, nice to unload in a dry shop).

Good luck! Now only it would stop raining so I could work on the shop!

Tom :usa:

[Toyota_Jim]

I built my 40x60, pole building, wood framed. I built my house in 20 foot of one end.
They started building my 60x100 today. Its a steel framed building. I don't plan on finishing the inside, just adding lights and doors with openers. Just using it to park trucks in. If I had it to do overagain, i would have built both in steel.. cheaper by alot.

[threadkiller]

I wanted to hit everyone up for their opinions on a detached garage.

I have been pricing with builders for getting a "shop" built for my jeeps and toys. I don't have the time or I would actually build it myself, and I know I can't get it completed it a timely fashion so contractors seem to be my best option. I have only been looking at Post Frame (wood frame) construction with metal roof and siding. I have gotten bids from $10k to $18k (Just the building)for my specs so far. I am going to do the site prep, electrical, water, and concrete myself. My basic bid is for a 10' ceiling height, but open to the roof. I have also asked for the possibility of a 12'6" ceiling height which breaks out about $900 - $1k additional cost. While it is not much money compared to the cost of the structure, I just can not justify that with selling it to my better half like I have for the 10' ceiling. From what I have researched so far, the 12'6" would also give me the option of adding a lift if I would like in the future. I just need a good sell pitch to get it done.

I wanted to see what you other guys have built or paid for something similar.

Here are my present specs:
* 30'x40'x10' - basic open floor contruction
* 2 - insulated 8'x10' garage doors
* 1 - man door with window
* insulation/vapor barrier (insulation specs (R-value = 3 - 6) so far have practically been just a vapor barrier unless I want a more costly avenue.)
* 1ft over hand all the way around
* possibly 2 windows
* provisions (bandboard) on backside of 40' for possible 15' shed at a later date

Stuff for me to do:
* Electrical and water supplies to the building from my house
* 1 frost free hydrant in the building
* Internal wiring w/ a 220v box or two, at minimum 4 boxes per wall w/ more around "work" area
* at least 6 or 8 - 8' ceiling lights
* concrete and gravel for the pad and gravel for the turn around (parking) area. I am still determining how big it will be
* Heat source at a later date, I am exploring options at this time.
* Possible floor drain with pipe out the back at this time.
* Find another Fridge for the cool pops.

Anyone have any suggestions on things I should consider before signing a contract? I know there are somethings that are better tackled while under initial construction, but I want to try and make sure I don't miss any thing major. I have read through CAMO's build up twice and he does have a nice building, I just know I won't be able to swing it with the boss.

Thanks for any insight or input you may have.

Joey

I built a 30x40x10 pole barn last year in Celina, TN for about $10,000. Here are some specs:

6" concrete floor
Sawmill grade lumber for the walls- 8x8 posts 2x6 stringers
30' 4:12 "w" trusses with NO overhang.
Galvalume sheetmetal for roof, walls, and trim. 6" gutters
2 - 9x7 uninsulated garage doors
1 - 36" steel pedestrian door, no window
No electric, plumbing, heat, or AC. Just a place to store stuff.


Your project calls for overhang. That takes a considerable amount of money and labor to wrap that in metal.

Going up 2.5 feet shouldn't cost $1,000. I can see $500.

Try this sales pitch: If you have a lift, You can do the maintenance on her car and you won't have to miss work. Plus, you can work on it in bad weather. To do that requires that you spend a little extra money, but it will be worth it in the long run. In fact, the property value will be increased because of it."

[jheady]

Thanks a lot guys.

I do want to add that I am planning on putting the garage doors on the side of the building and roof peak running parallel to house roof line. If I was not, I would probably just go with one garage door on the end that would be as big as would fit. If I do go with the 12'6" ceiling, I am going to look into at least one of the garage doors being larger.
I am still gathering info to throw at the boss for decision time on the ceiling height.

Thanks again,

Joey

[tsm1mt]

Thanks a lot guys.

I do want to add that I am planning on putting the garage doors on the side of the building and roof peak running parallel to house roof line. If I was not, I would probably just go with one garage door on the end that would be as big as would fit. If I do go with the 12'6" ceiling, I am going to look into at least one of the garage doors being larger.
I am still gathering info to throw at the boss for decision time on the ceiling height.

Thanks again,

Joey


That reminds me.. I meant to add "You need a bigger door"

Go 9' tall, definitely.. and if you can swing one 16' wide door, that would be even better.

It'll be handy the day you need to back your car trailer inside for whatever reason - to unload something, or work on the trailer, or..

[heavytlc]

If you ever go to sale your house, and building, the extra height could make or break the sale. Anyone buying a house with a large shop will fall into a few different types. They will have lots of cars, or be in an auto type hobbie/business, horse people, with a large horse trailer, or they will own a large RV. For any of these types of people, they will all need at least a 10foot door, and 13'6" would be best.

I just sent the Cashiers check, today for my steel building. 60x100 16' eves, 1-12 pitch, 20x100 shedroof on the back(outdoor covered storage, and a good place to put the spray booth, without eating up shop space) 8' liner panel on all interior walls, 12 skylights, wainscoating on 3 sides, 3 14x14doors, 2 10x10, 3 3x7 walk doors. I ordered my building from WWWAmeristall.com. I will have close to 40k in the shell, no doors, no erection, just the building, but I did lots of expensive custom stuff. The building was maybe 5% higher than my average bid, but the shop will match the barn I am building at the front of the 12.5 acres.

[57ringo]

One more thing you might do is raise up the building site so when it rains, the water won't be sitting around the building. We have a 40x80 that dad was to tight to raise the building sight about a foot and now in a wet season, the 4" concrete slab will raise close to 1" because of the dirt under the slab getting wet. The other building we built up the site and have no water issues.

[flimmy]

Bathroom , you know as soon as you get started working on something your gonna have to go.

I have one in my garage along with a rough in for a shower. If you can, try putting pipe in the floor for your heat. You might not have the $$$ to hook it up now but it will be nice when you do. Just go lay on a cold concrete floor for an hour.

[Toyota_Jim]

I just go outside and piss. if i got to shit i go inside to the john.

[jheady]

Thank you all for your suggestions, they have been great.

I have been working on the boss and feeling out the 12' ceiling height. It could go either way, but I think I can swing it. So I am also checking with the contractors to give me a the price for a 10'x10' door. If the price is right I will be looking to have both doors the same. (Granted that the boss's stamp of approval on the package goes through and the final price is set in stone)
So far I am good with the 30x40x10 with the 8x10 doors, but last night she asked me if I planned on have a porch or extended roof over the man door? (I think she liked some that are in the brochures) So I may be looking into adding that in. We also discussed color schemes so she is expecting something to happen as soon as the pricing and details are worked out.
At present the exisiting specs are looking to cost $17,900. The 12'6" is probably going to fall @ $ 19k. Keep in mind, these prices are just for the building.
I do have another question. How are a majority of you financing your buildings? I am planning on tapping into my home equity and gaining another tax write-off, but covering the "me" projects out of pocket. I will be locking in the equity in a fixed 2nd mortgage because I know I will not have any large sum fall into my lap. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you again

[SHERPA]

If you're ever considering buying an RV, you'd want to have that 12' ceiling/
wall height...... I currently have a 11' cabover camper, and it barely* fits under my 10' carport...... actually, to get the camper OFF the truck, it has to go up about 10" higher.... so, there you go. even a cabover needs an 11'
wall height.................................

--5th wheel trailers are really tall.... like 13 feet..........

--Sherpa

I'd say put in plumbing for a toilet/sink in a corner... if you're not gettgin
permits for an indoor bathroom, then just have the toilet flange 1/8" below
the concrete floor height when you pour..... make dimensions for yourself
so you know exactly where the hole needs to go...... cover the flange with
a flat cap so cement doesn't fill the drain....

after all the inspections are done, chip the 1/8" of cement off the flat cap,
and add your toilet-!

--sherpa

[jheady]

I'd say put in plumbing for a toilet/sink in a corner... if you're not gettgin
permits for an indoor bathroom, then just have the toilet flange 1/8" below
the concrete floor height when you pour..... make dimensions for yourself
so you know exactly where the hole needs to go...... cover the flange with
a flat cap so cement doesn't fill the drain....

after all the inspections are done, chip the 1/8" of cement off the flat cap,
and add your toilet-!

--sherpa

I am presently not planning on any plumbing other than a water hydrant and possibly a center floor drain. If anything else, it would be shop sink, but tied into the floor drain, which will not see much action as it is. I am not looking to add in another septic system since the house is 100ft from building. If I need to pee I will just slip outside. For #2 I will walk to the house and if I have the runs and in the predicament of having to be in the building I guess I will find me a bucket. :)

[!wayota]

Just a thought but when i built mine i plumbed in air lines.

[jheady]

Okay, here is an update.

I have the go ahead with the 12' 6" ceiling and I have the builder scheduled to come out on the 29th to go over my lot and make sure we are both on the same page. I still haven't signed any paperwork, but that will be on the 29th or shortly after.

I am presently trying to figure out my door configuration. So far I have 2 10x10 garage doors priced into the quote, but I am thinking changing it to 1 and a 8x10. From talking with the builder he suggested I don't go with anything more than 10' tall on a 12' ceiling. I was thinking if I could put an 11' for there I would be set, but he said that deviation for the average 2' sections gets costly.
I am thinking the 8x10 for the other door (which would be where I would put a lift when/if I do get one), because I wouldn't want anything bigger there than I could put on the lift. (Trying to make sure dummy me doesn't put something into the rafters or roof).
Still haven't decided if the man door needs to be on the front or the side of the building.

Thanks again for all of your suggestions.

[jheady]

Just to give an update to the ones that care.

I will have my building soon. I have received delivery of the building pkg and it is getting scheduled for the crew to come out. I ended up going with Morton Buildings. They were the highest bid, but pound for pound it seems to be the best buy. The end product is going to cost a couple hundred shy of $20k for the building. I will be able to start the next phase of "my" work after that.

The Building pkg details:

30x40x12 post frame, 4:12 pitch roof with 1' overhangs, insulation/vapor barrier on roof and walls, 2 -10x10 insulated garage doors, 1 -9 lite man door. Morton pkgs include wainscotting around base w/ OSB backing, gutters, ridge and soffit vents, and it is all 26ga metal.

I do have a question for some input too. I am looking to a good quality pre-made floor drain trough. Does anyone have any suggestions on a brand or make? I am thinking of putting a 8' section with grate in the center of the building.

Thanks to everyone.

[fj40guy]

Post up pictures.

Neighbor used Morton Buildings for his house/hanger combo. Nice buildings.
No friggin bird problem either! :(

Have you already poured the floor? Bathroom in the corner is still a viable idea, I'm 100' from the house, but what a pain when I have to go! :)
I rough plumbed, toilet & bathroom will be done in the future. Yep, "shit pump" is required for the 100' run to the septic tanks.

Tom :usa:

[PAToyota]

For trench drains, we spec from the following:

http://www.josam.com/
http://www.zurn.com/
http://www.acousa.com/drain/
http://www.jrsmith.com/

Any are good names. Check out the fiberglass products. Lighter weight, cheaper, and no corrosion problems.