GRADE 12 BOLTS? No way... [Archive] - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

Josh83

09-22-2002, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD
Wow! Good thinking. I think between the two of us, I'm the only one to have shown a vehicle. Being from ky illicits you as being white trash. I simply have a functional truck, that I drive everyday. Tell me what's trashy about that, and by all means show me the pictures of yours. I could use a laugh, I'm sure. While you're at it, die.

Anyways, back to the bolts.

Well, I don't have pics, but it is a 2000 TJ that is totally stock cause I just got it. Before that, I had a 91 4Runner, 33" MT/R's, 5.29 gears, detroit rear, full armor, and had an SAS in the works, but couldn't justify it to myself on my daily driver. As for the white trash comment, I don't think so. While your at it go fuck yourself.

MR4WD

09-22-2002, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by SCOTTS_4X
MR4WD you fawking moron, are you absolutly stupid? what happens when things get hard? they are brittle, you stupid fawk! why do axleshafts shatter instead of twisting like licorisce (sp?) because they are HARD! oh and I'd liek to see a thread where I couldn't get my hubs unlocked.......?? and I'm with everyone else ......SHUT UP!

-Scott

Oh, so you're assuming that with grade, goes up hardness. Interesting. Go drive your white trash truck through some more fields or something. I never said anything about using any of these bolts on my truck, however, if I did I'm sure they'd last just fine as have all the bolts. Especially the ones I replaced the u-bolts with. (except the 8 retaining the axle shaft, they all sheared off) (while we're on it, what's happens to the shear strength of something as it becomes less prone to bending? or, as you implied being "harder")

Who's everyone else? The under 130 (IQ) crowd? There's a bunch of people to set a standard by. Keep talking, you're bound eventually to say something smart albeit unimportant.

MR4WD

09-22-2002, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Josh83

Well, I don't have pics, but it is a 2000 TJ that is totally stock cause I just got it. Before that, I had a 91 4Runner, 33" MT/R's, 5.29 gears, detroit rear, full armor, and had an SAS in the works, but couldn't justify it to myself on my daily driver. As for the white trash comment, I don't think so. While your at it go fuck yourself.

Pussy, my truck's a daily driver. Put out or shut up. You lack the former, so shut up. Oh wait, I bet yours is a grocery getter. Well done!

SCOTTS_4X

09-22-2002, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD
Wow! Good thinking. I think between the two of us, I'm the only one to have shown I simply have a tiny penis, tell me what's trashy about that, and by all means show me the pictures of yours. I could use a good arrousal, I'm gay.

Anyways, back to the bolts.

bwahahahahaha

-Scott

Josh83

09-22-2002, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD

Pussy, my truck's a daily driver. Put out or shut up. You lack the former, so shut up. Oh wait, I bet yours is a grocery getter. Well done!

I never said your :rainbow: piece of shit wasn't a daily driver. I simply wasn't willing to make the sacrafice and have to drive it every day since I drive about 80 miles a day. On a side note, why the FUCK did you just ask me to put out? You are a fucking homo.

MR4WD

09-22-2002, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by SCOTTS_4X

bwahahahahaha

-Scott

www.geocities.com/scotts_4x/truck1.html bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

bwahaha

bwahahahahaha

I didn't say "Let's have a stupid contest." But pretend I did, you just won.

Anyways, back to the bolts then.

Mustard Dog

09-22-2002, 09:18 PM

Somebody please move this crap over to General 4X4:rolleyes: Looks like tech to me, we'll see how far this goes over there.

Erich In AZ

09-22-2002, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD
because I have pictures. Mostly just for Erich in Azhole

Sure, I'd love to see an SAE grade 12 bolt.
:shaking:

Originally posted by MR4WD
if what you're saying is true, and these "so called" grade 12 bolts exist, why then would anybody have a use for them if they are so brittle? Would not the strength go up with them too? What sort of application would call for a bolt to be really expensive and also really brittle?

Titanium is lighter and stronger than steel, yet more brittle. Why would anyone use that shitty material then? Or do you care to argue that too?

MR4WD

09-22-2002, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by Josh83

I never said your :rainbow: piece of shit wasn't a daily driver. I simply wasn't willing to make the sacrafice and have to drive it every day since I drive about 80 miles a day. On a side note, why the FUCK did you just ask me to put out? You are a fucking homo.

Oh my god. I didn't think it was possible, but you do have the mental capacity of a grape. What's with all the faggots around here calling everybody else gay? Where's Ratty when you need him? "The pot just called the kettle black" Continually, you idiots never cease to amaze me. Get off the gay topic, and get back to bolts, homo.

I meant, put out as in "get it." Either way, I guess you'll be doing neither with your TJ anytime in the future.

Josh83

09-22-2002, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD

Oh my god. I didn't think it was possible, but you do have the mental capacity of a grape. What's with all the faggots around here calling everybody else gay? Where's Ratty when you need him? "The pot just called the kettle black" Continually, you idiots never cease to amaze me. Get off the gay topic, and get back to bolts, homo.

I meant, put out as in "get it." Either way, I guess you'll be doing neither with your TJ anytime in the future.

Ok, I am done with this. Fuck you and I hope you crash your lame ass truck tomorrow and die.

mjs408

09-22-2002, 09:27 PM

Ti is not lighter than steel pound for pound , although it is stronger, what makes Ti light is that it is so strong it can be made to have thinner walls than something out of steel so thats what makes it lighter

MR4WD

09-22-2002, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by erich_in_AZ

Sure, I'd love to see an SAE grade 12 bolt.
:shaking:

Titanium is lighter and stronger than steel, yet more brittle. Why would anyone use that shitty material then? Or do you care to argue that too?

Dear dumb Erich, I made an inference to what scotts2x said previously

sure there's grade 12 bolts. but how hard is a grade 12 bolt? really hard, we're talking brittle. but what you should do is break the bank on them, that way we can laugh at you for running grade 12's and breaking in fact, just incase you missed it.

I know full well the benefits of titanium along with other hardened metals and alloys. None the less, I'm not here to argue the point of space-age alloys. I'm simply curious if you still stand by your months old statement that they don't exist. Perhaps if you feel like having a debate, have it with this okie, since he seems to think there's no point in running anything but grade 3 bolts since they're cheaper and more willing to bend.

I don't have any charts, be it SAE or ASTM, just bolts with 12 strikes that come in boxes that say Grade 12. What I'm getting at, is yes, like all things I'd stated previous they do exist and I've used them. I'm not here to belittle you, or make you look stupid. I'm giving you a reference point to go by and some actual proof (I've still yet to take pictures, but I will)

Gwamp

09-22-2002, 09:28 PM

Here are torque specs for "grade 12 bolts".

bolts (http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/bolts/M_bolts.html)

Google is an AMAZING tool...

R O

09-22-2002, 09:29 PM

MR4WD,your sir are a troll.
What happened,did the kids a school pick on you a lot?Are you mad at the world?
You sure don't like yourself much do you?
All you do is post shit about how stupid everyone else is,how come?what are you trying to prove?
Nobody really cares about you or what you have to say.it's the internet.
You should probably see a psyciartrist(sp),you seem at have some severe selfesteem problems.
All this ranting and being mad at everyone is quite abnormal.It's only the internet.

MR4WD in no way represents Canadians.I for one am embarassed and dismayed by his posts.

SCOTTS_4X

09-22-2002, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by erich_in_AZ
Titanium is lighter and stronger than steel, yet more brittle. Why would anyone use that shitty material then?

thank you, and I withdraw myself from this stupidity.

-Scott

MR4WD

09-22-2002, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by Josh83

Ok, I am done with this. Fuck you and I hope you crash your lame ass truck tomorrow and die.

Good enough!

MR4WD

09-22-2002, 09:36 PM

Hey gwamp, that's right and not right. I meant imperial, not metric bolts. There's sort of a history behind this all, sorry for not stating that earlier... Ie, Grade 3, 5, 8, 9 etc...

Thanks freud, I mean RO. I don't really give a fart what you think. I can well imagine how long it took for you to form that post. However, if people get the feeling I'm making them look stupid, that's their problem for looking stupid. Not mine! :flipoff2: OBVIOUSLY you DO care what I have to say, since you wrote back. Never the less I don't much care for your opinion...

Scotts, shut up. I'm not sure which, either myself or Erich but someone pointed out that you're an idiot, thanks for leaving...

All flaming aside, I'm here to talk about bolts.

Sully

09-22-2002, 09:36 PM

My God... Do you guys really not have this ignoramus on your ignore list yet????

Reading this thread, is like watching a bunch of adults trying to argue with a three year old. Except the three year old would probably be more intelligent and mature than MR4WD, of the Sinister Sierra fame.

Give it up guys, he's a tool, and always will be one. No amount of arguing will change that. Our posts are better spent enjoying ourselves, then trying to reason with this putz.

Jeez, after reading this entire thread, I'd almost trade his ass to have Jeffery back.

MR4WD

09-22-2002, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by Sully
...........Our posts are better spent enjoying ourselves..... .....I'd almost trade his ass to have Jeffery back.

Is that what it takes to be "in" around here? Enjoying (ones) (others) selves? Interesting. I think I'm glad I'm not part of the in-crowd.

Erich In AZ

09-22-2002, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD

Dear dumb Erich, I made an inference to what scotts2x said previously

Hey dipshit. Check out this link:

http://us.share.geocities.com/biwens1/Bolts2.ppt

Look at page 10.
In case you don't have powerpoint, I think it says Grade 8 is more brittle than Grade 2 or 5. Hmmm.!

BTW what was said so long ago was that there is NO SAE Grade 12. I still haven't seen anything to prove that wrong.

Sully

09-22-2002, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD

Is that what it takes to be "in" around here? Enjoying (ones) (others) selves? Interesting. I think I'm glad I'm not part of the in-crowd.

Nope... I can't really speak for anyone else on how they feel the "in-crowd" as you put it, is defined. However, my opinion, is that you simply have to not be a shithead. It's really not that hard. However, I think that pretty much leaves you out... so how about admitting that you are full of shit, you're trying to compare apples and oranges, and heading back to the corner to shut up.

Erich In AZ

09-22-2002, 09:57 PM

Hello...

*tap tap tap*

is this thing on?

No response? Is your shoe stuck in your mouth?

Mr McGee

09-22-2002, 09:57 PM

wow :rolleyes:

i guess its official that i am not the most immature, stupid bastard on this board....could somebody just answer the fucking question please?

(sorry im gonna have to side with mr4wd on this one....but i still think everybody needs to look at the wrinkles on your face and realize that you're adults...) :rolleyes: :flipoff2:

MR4WD

09-22-2002, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by erich_in_AZ
Hello...

*tap tap tap*

is this thing on?

No response? Is your shoe stuck in your mouth?

No, I was having a shower if you absolutely must know.

You changed the parameters of your statement. I'm positive. I have no recollection of you stating anything about SAE, or whatever else. I'm quite clear that you said something along the lines of (but not quite) "Grade 12 bolts don't exist" Never the less, I'll take a picture of the box they come in. I'm sure being grade 12, there's some sort of reliance on the bolt It wouldn't make sense for just any acme based manufacturer to stamp 12 strikes on a bolt and call it good, without some sort of regulating body. ASE, NASA or BMW. I have no idea. I've got to think it's ASE though. I know for a fact that Komatsu sells grade 12 bolts, and uses them quite regularly on their equipment. It says clearly on the bolt Gr.12...

And fatboy, I still haven't argued that a grade 8 would tend to be more brittle than grade 2 or 5. Thanks for the powerpoint article though!

Moab Austin

09-22-2002, 10:36 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MR4WD
[B]

No, I was having a shower if you absolutely must know.

You changed the parameters of your statement.

changed prarameters?

I thought you said you were NOT talking metric....now you say you don't know hte governing body that rates the bolts....

well if there is 12 marks on it I would say metric.....

Oh wait thats why grade 8 bolts have 8 marks right:rolleyes:

metric 12 is almost equal to grade 8.....

..now what you gonna say I don't know the difference between metric and standard ??

well if you're really trying to attempt some tech here Post some fawking pics and facts instead of arguing fawkin Newbie....

MetalMender

09-22-2002, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by mjs408
Ti is not lighter than steel pound for pound , although it is stronger, what makes Ti light is that it is so strong it can be made to have thinner walls than something out of steel so thats what makes it lighter
Sorry about the thread jack but I had to jump in here on this one. your saying a 2" square block of steel weighs the same as a 2" square block of Ti?:eek:

Have you ever worked with Ti ?

rich

elf_cruiser

09-22-2002, 10:54 PM

After reading this thread, i finally found the appropraite pic to illustrate my thoughts:

http://www.azchatfield.net/Comebacks/thumb.asp?W=640&F=Interesting_WakeMe.jpg

MR4WD

09-22-2002, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Moab Austin
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MR4WD
[B]

No, I was having a shower if you absolutely must know.

You changed the parameters of your statement.

changed prarameters?

I thought you said you were NOT talking metric....now you say you don't know hte governing body that rates the bolts....

well if there is 12 marks on it I would say metric.....

Oh wait thats why grade 8 bolts have 8 marks right:rolleyes:

metric 12 is almost equal to grade 8.....

..now what you gonna say I don't know the difference between metric and standard ??

well if you're really trying to attempt some tech here Post some fawking pics and facts instead of arguing fawkin Newbie....

You know, if I win the lottery I'm coming straight to your house to punch you square in the face.

What the fuck does me stating that I wasn't talking metric have to do with him changing parameters of an old statement of point made by someone else??? That's like comparing grass and teddy bears. HOW in the world do the two correlate?

If there's 12 marks on it, and you said it was metric, you'd be wrong. It's 1/2" bolt I'm talking about here, which is as far as I can tell, is IMPERIAL. Also, all of the grade 8 bolts I've ever laid hands on have 5 strikes and a triangle. Triangle being 3, plus 5... Well you get the drift. The bolts I'm talking about have 12 strikes, plus nothing. I've also seen bolts with 3 and 4 triangles, which in theory would mean grade 9 and 12.

I think I figured out why there's strikes and triangles; So when I take a hammer, and stamp you in the forehead with the head of the bolt and you look in the mirror it will still read the same. For a guy with 1900 posts, you'd think you'd contribute a bit more than bandwidth...

I don't have the box of bolts sitting in front of me right now. If I did, I'd take a picture. I can however take a multitude of blue, red and gold plated metric bolts, graded 8.9, Stainless bolts grade 3.144 or something, and grade 3, 5, 8 and 9 bolts either plated or raw...But that's not what we're talking about here. Maybe I didn't make the thread topic or any of the previous posts here clear enough, but we're talking grade 12 imperial bolts. They exist, like others have said they didn't.

richard-head

09-22-2002, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by MetalMender

Sorry about the thread jack but I had to jump in here on this one. your saying a 2" square block of steel weighs the same as a 2" square block of Ti?:eek:

Have you ever worked with Ti ?

rich

Ti (hate working with that shit) is in fact way lighter than steel. Fact. It (pending on alloy, I work mostly with 4v-6al) has more flex than steel. Hard as hell to drill. Does not corode easly (although on the galvanic cart, it hates crome.) I've never heard of a SAE grade 12. I've seen grade 12, they were not SAE. As far as my stack of books go, they list upto grade 9 (appr. 180,000 psi tensil)
grade 8 about 160.000
grade 5 about 130.000

there are some MS and nas spec that go up to and above 220,000 psi
good god I can't think of any reason you would want/need something like that

mr4wd if you do in fact have grade 12 bolts, I do not belive they are SAE, and if they are not SAE, they don't mean shit.

I can set you up with a box of dk grade 20, wana box?

:flipoff2:

Joe_W

09-22-2002, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by mjs408
Ti is not lighter than steel pound for pound , although it is stronger

hmmm..I never knew a pound of Ti wasn't lighter than a pound of steel. Wow Mr4wd can teach me something

camo

09-22-2002, 11:26 PM

if any of you clowns has some tech to share now would be a good time before i start using the delete and ban buttons. mr4wd you need to get back in line.

DozerDan

09-22-2002, 11:41 PM

Just a word to the wise... anyone can post anything on the internet. That doesnt nes mean its correct.

I am not even going to get into the metalurgical aspects of this thread other than to say yall need to read some books. There is more to metal than hard= brittle and soft= ductile... that is like kindergarden metalurgy... By playing with the TTT curve and the heat treating processing you can do magicall things...

Chief yelling alot

09-22-2002, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD

You know, if I win the lottery I'm coming straight to your house to punch you square in the face.

What the fuck does me stating that I wasn't talking metric have to do with him changing parameters of an old statement of point blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

http://www.azchatfield.net/Comebacks/thumb.asp?W=640&F=UR_Idiot.jpg

camo

09-22-2002, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by dozernad
Just a word to the wise... anyone can post anything on the internet. That doesnt nes mean its correct.

I am not even going to get into the metalurgical aspects of this thread other than to say yall need to read some books. There is more to metal than hard= brittle and soft= ductile... that is like kindergarden metalurgy... By playing with the TTT curve and the heat treating processing you can do magicall things...

if you really understand this stuff please start a new thread and shed some light on the subject. we all would enjoy some tech.

camo

09-22-2002, 11:49 PM

i don't know jack about bolt psi ratings but these are the bolts i have used for years on my off road desert race cars.

http://www.bolts4u.com/fore3.htm

richard-head

09-23-2002, 12:06 AM

steel, low carbon --density Lb/Cu In-.284
---brinell hardness
annealed ------130
melts---2700 *F

Titanium density----.163
brinell (annealed) 150
melts- 3135 *f

handbook of engineering fundamentals, Eshbach, third ed.

I did find a small par. in HPBooks High performance Hardware, stating to the efect some MNFG. make bolts upto and beyond 180,000 psi following SAE spec. dimensional outlines. It's follwed by this statement " Giving the challenges involved in achieving this level of stength without excessive brittleness, while maintaing good resitance to fatigue and stress cracking, and given the availability of parts of this and even higher strength levels from reputable sources, it seems foolhardy indeed to be tempted by such offerings."

:flipoff2:

as far as the box saying grade 12, I still say whipy-do. Under what governing standerd are you talking?

richard-head

09-23-2002, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by camo
i don't know jack about bolt psi ratings but these are the bolts i have used for years on my off road desert race cars.

http://www.bolts4u.com/fore3.htm

Thanks for the link, good info. There F911 is what other manufactures refer to as a grade 9.
In the end, the grade number is only a guide, It's really what the manufacture whats it to be.

Rock Tractor

09-23-2002, 12:27 AM

I dont believe there is a SAE grade 12 bolt. So give some info. As in manufacturer.

richard-head

09-23-2002, 01:29 AM

ah, so much can be learned from the search button. I knew nothing of mr4wd. Now, know more than I ever wanted to know.

damn newbies, search.:flipoff2:

Erich In AZ

09-23-2002, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by camo
if any of you clowns has some tech to share now would be a good time before i start using the delete and ban buttons. mr4wd you need to get back in line.

FYI, this was moved OUT of chit chat where it started, and probably should have stayed. This guy started shit Sat night, and he's been shoveling it ever since. Check out:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82542&

I love the comments like:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MR4WD
Go die for your country or something, live the american dream.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MR4WD
You're fitting the bill of a typical American. More need not be said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was also a "attn- MR4WD" thread that was deleted.

Feel free to send this back to chit chat!

bigdude

09-23-2002, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by erich_in_AZ

Feel free to send this back to chit chat!

And feel free to send Mr4wd to the shitter.

I'm all for being an ass and jerking people around for the entertainment value, but anti-american sentiment is something that really doesn't need to be expressed. Especially knocking people who die for their country. That's idiotic :mad:

CheapXJ

09-23-2002, 09:09 AM

agreed.

Eskimo

09-23-2002, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by bigdude
I'm all for being an ass and jerking people around for the entertainment value

You?? NEVER!! :flipoff2:

WrangledTJ

09-23-2002, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Eskimo

You?? NEVER!! :flipoff2:

LOL...I too find that hard to believe....just read my sig. :D

Keith Strong

09-23-2002, 12:24 PM

:shaking:

Travis Waldher

09-23-2002, 01:42 PM

Oh my fucking god. I thought I have seen it all on here.

But, MR4WD has succesfully managed to pull people in to his lame ass argument. Letsee... first he said he had pics and proof, now he doesn't but could go get it.

MR4WD, you don't belong here, even JU doesn't deserve you.

Bottom line, there is no SAE Grade 12, there is an METRIC Grade 12, that is equivalent to a SAE Grade 8. NOW, the catch, if a certain manufacturer produced a bolt that exceeds the PSI ratings of Grade 8, then they COULD call that Grade 12 if they want. Grade 12 may exist, or it may not. It all depends on wether a manufacturer decided to make it.

Grade 12 is NOT a common standard out there, you won't see it even in the average specialty shop on the shelf. It would have to be special order if anything.

Metric Grade 12, there is no marking "standard" that I have ever seen. Companies mark their bolts different ways. So... what is the dia. and thread pitch of those bolts? are they something like 20mmx1.25mmx200mm? That would be metric Grade 12.

mods, for the love of god, please delete this thread and eliminate his padding? PLEASE!?

withamc

09-23-2002, 05:05 PM

:nuke:

boz88xj

09-23-2002, 05:34 PM

Hey guys, I just made some grade 30 bolts out of cardboard, dogcrap, and ducttape. Sure its not SAE, but IT SAYS GRADE 30!!!
I can take a picture if you want... well, I could... I don't have them now, but if you want I could take some pictures... or maybe...

Mr4wd is a poolof steaming scrotal infection pus. If I never read a post from him again, ill be happy.

DemoMike

09-23-2002, 05:41 PM

and again...

mods, for the love of god, please delete this thread and eliminate his padding? PLEASE!?

hy_desert_4wheeler

09-24-2002, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by MetalMender

Sorry about the thread jack but I had to jump in here on this one. your saying a 2" square block of steel weighs the same as a 2" square block of Ti?:eek:

Have you ever worked with Ti ?

rich

Looks to me like he is saying a POUND of STEEL weighs the same as a POUND of Ti.... Kinda like saying a POUND of feathers weigh the same as a POUND of lead...

Lloyd

09-24-2002, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by bigdude

And feel free to send Mr4wd to the shitter... Especially knocking people who die for their country. That's idiotic :mad:

Mr4wd is a giant, stinking turd floating in the punchbowl of Pirate4x4. Anyone who can get to that button, please flush.

Moab Austin

09-24-2002, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD

You know, if I win the lottery I'm coming straight to your house to punch you square in the face.

What the fuck does me stating that I wasn't talking metric have to do with him changing parameters of an old statement of point made by someone else??? That's like comparing grass and teddy bears. HOW in the world do the two correlate?

If there's 12 marks on it, and you said it was metric, you'd be wrong. It's 1/2" bolt I'm talking about here, which is as far as I can tell, is IMPERIAL. Also, all of the grade 8 bolts I've ever laid hands on have 5 strikes and a triangle. Triangle being 3, plus 5... Well you get the drift. The bolts I'm talking about have 12 strikes, plus nothing. I've also seen bolts with 3 and 4 triangles, which in theory would mean grade 9 and 12.

I think I figured out why there's strikes and triangles; So when I take a hammer, and stamp you in the forehead with the head of the bolt and you look in the mirror it will still read the same. For a guy with 1900 posts, you'd think you'd contribute a bit more than bandwidth...

I don't have the box of bolts sitting in front of me right now. If I did, I'd take a picture. I can however take a multitude of blue, red and gold plated metric bolts, graded 8.9, Stainless bolts grade 3.144 or something, and grade 3, 5, 8 and 9 bolts either plated or raw...But that's not what we're talking about here. Maybe I didn't make the thread topic or any of the previous posts here clear enough, but we're talking grade 12 imperial bolts. They exist, like others have said they didn't.

Hey has MR4wd been deleated yet?
I hope he reads this..

guy, you're arguing about six different things at once...if you wanted to do anything but start shit you'd have come here and post pics first....you claimed you didn't know what hte bolts were OTHER than grade 12...but nothing else.....honestly I don't care if you put grade 50 bolts on your pile of shit chevy it will still be a pile.......:D

OH.....and threatning me ? haha you better start treating yourself to alittle more self preservence than that...

you crossed the line..

anyone who wants to pitch in and buy MR4wd a plane ticket so he can come kick my ass is welcome to email me, I will be taking donations...

Hey mods, isn't there a legal way I can get MR4wd's addy from his isp since he has threatened me on a public forum?

I don't wanna put the board at risk here but if there is a legal way email me.

Moab Austin

09-24-2002, 07:41 PM

fuck it , I guess I am not that pissed, if you ever come to Moab and wanna fight look me up..

just don't bust my ass with those Grade 12 muscles:D

MR4WD

09-24-2002, 10:02 PM

Motherfucker. My cammy got confiscated at work! Pictures WILL follow, but not as soons as expected...

Taken out of context, my "anti-american" sentiments could be taken to heart. However, if you read further than what Erich posted, you'll see that what he posted is, (made you dumbasses beleive) entirely incorrect. I have no bones to pick with anybody associated with any nation really. However, previously, he'd stated there's no such thing as a grade 12 bolt. I have proof there is. Now, I don't dispute that they MAY not be SAE grade 12, never the less, they ARE grade 12. (which, again, he'd stated could not exist)

Moab, if you're willing to fly me to wherever you live, or, if you're willing to fly, drive, walk or hitch hike your sorry ass up here email me at theoriginalhardcore@yahoo.com and I'll mail you my address, phone number, postal code and whatever else it is you'd like.... Don't worry about spamming it though, it's purely a spam email address, so I never really check it.

bigNATE®

09-24-2002, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by withamc
:nuke:

funny, like mine better
http://members.aol.com/ncls484/seelight.jpg

~NaTe :flipoff2:

bgreen

09-24-2002, 10:28 PM

MR4WD: you are acting like a jerk and currently offer very little to this board. I for one would vote to ban you, even though I still like your truck......

For the most part :flipoff2:

MR4WD

09-24-2002, 10:39 PM

I'd take my truck too~~ if it weighed about 3000 less and had your tires on it... As for now, I'm tired of replacing axle shafts, engine oil and the occasional u-joint...

LordRatner

09-25-2002, 12:00 AM

Good to know some things never change.

Erich In AZ

09-25-2002, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by MR4WD

Taken out of context, my "anti-american" sentiments could be taken to heart. However, if you read further than what Erich posted, you'll see that what he posted is, (made you dumbasses beleive) entirely incorrect. I have no bones to pick with anybody associated with any nation really.

You might notice I posted a link to the thread you said this crap in RIGHT ABOVE AND BEFORE THE QUOTES. This way everyone can read exactly what you said. I'm not hiding anything from anyone.

Originally posted by MR4WD

...However, previously, he'd stated there's no such thing as a grade 12 bolt. I have proof there is. Now, I don't dispute that they MAY not be SAE grade 12, never the less, they ARE grade 12. (which, again, he'd stated could not exist)

Man I wish that thread was still around! We both know we were talking SAE, not metric. You even said it here:

Originally posted by MR4WD
Hey gwamp, that's right and not right. I meant imperial, not metric bolts. There's sort of a history behind this all, sorry for not stating that earlier... Ie, Grade 3, 5, 8, 9 etc...

Man can you spew the shit! You're even changing your story mid-fawking thread? :shaking: Did I read that wrong?

I also remember you telling me I was a dumbass due to my statement that Grade 8 bolts are more brittle than Grade 5. Remember when you showed the pics of your rear axle, and the washers you had in it to help make up for the angled shim or whatever that was you had in there? I said that I felt Grade 5 would hold up better to the bending you created in that white trash attempt at engineering you called a spring perch, than Grade 8 due to the increased elasticity. You also made a comment pointed to me to the effect of "Everyone just happens to have engineers where they work". Well, in a 130,000 sqft machine shop, we have 1 or 2. Starting to remember that whole conversation?

I stand by my earlier comment:
Originally posted by erich_in_AZ
Sure, I'd love to see an SAE grade 12 bolt.
:shaking:

Ben Segrest

09-25-2002, 12:35 AM

Originally posted by MR4WD
Who's everyone else? The under 130 (IQ) crowd? There's a bunch of people to set a standard by. Keep talking, you're bound eventually to say something smart albeit unimportant. Okay, I'll bite. What's your IQ? When was the last time you were tested?

Oh, and whoever said that pound for pound Ti is heavier than steel, it's actually the same weight.

Moab Austin

09-25-2002, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by Ben Segrest
Okay, I'll bite. What's your IQ? When was the last time you were tested?

Oh, and whoever said that pound for pound Ti is heavier than steel, it's actually the same weight.

hehe yeah uhm..I was assuming they meant that...

kinda like what wieghts more a pound of shit or pound of this shit...

this thread is kinda like a hangover..you keep promising yourself you'll never come back to it again..

Al Kaholick

09-25-2002, 01:06 AM

bigdude

09-25-2002, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by MR4WD

Taken out of context, my "anti-american" sentiments could be taken to heart. However, if you read further than what Erich posted, you'll see that what he posted is, (made you dumbasses beleive) entirely incorrect.

I took them to heart because anyone stupid enough to mutter statements like that in times like these deserves to have hostility directed at them.

You may feel I'm a dumbass for directing hostility at your statements. I feel your a dumbass for spelling "believe" wrong :flipoff2:

I also think you're a dumbass because you get your camera confiscated at work, showing you're a grunt with no pull. Perhaps you take out your inferiority complex from work here on the PBB where you can hide in the internet's cloak of anonimity.

DRM

09-25-2002, 08:04 AM

I was not gonna do this, but I had to...

4Bangler

09-25-2002, 08:07 AM

WTF does IQ have to do with Grade 12 bolts? Are you suggesting that you belong in the Cerebrals? Mensa? Whatever, IQ testing is the biggest farce on the planet, my IQ was measured at 142 at age 10, right after the school system suggested that I was retarded, suggested putting me on Riddilin, and suggested putting me in "Special Ed" Then they turned around and put me in some advanced courses because of one test. What a pile of shit, I'll be the first person to tell you that I am a complete dumbass when it comes to many things, and after reading this thread, I am far less intelligent than I ever was before. Post your address an I'll send you a box of fecies marked "Grade 12" for you to argue about. Or I can take a picture of it, but not right now.

The head up ass pics are the funniest things I've seen in a loooooong time, too bad they are etched in my memory in relation to this thread.

Mustard Dog

09-25-2002, 08:20 AM

CRUISERBOYFJ40

09-25-2002, 10:57 AM

You guys need to stop giving Mr4wd a hard time. I know he isnt to bright but he is Correct!!. He hasnt shown any proof of the existance of these phantom bolts so I went out to the shop and I pulled a couple off the shelf and took a picture. Now the concept of triangles and lines is correct as you will see one of these Grade 12 bolts has 12 lines and the other 3 lines and 3 triangles wich holds the theory of mr4wds to be correct. So if you guys will please stop bashing this okie with a 110 IQ.

Pics belowhttp://

:flipoff2:

CRUISERBOYFJ40

09-25-2002, 10:58 AM

Ahh shit, can someone post these pics for me!!

DRM

09-25-2002, 10:58 AM

Nice red x :p

Grandpa Jeep

09-25-2002, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by erich_in_AZ
Man I wish that thread was still around! We both know we were talking SAE, not metric.

The thread (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50340) is still around. Here is the original comment from page 6 that started this whole thing.

Originally posted by BillaVista
BTW - 'nuther little lesson for you - there is no such thing as a "grade 12" bolt, certainly not an SAE fastener, and technically SAE are the ones that use the Grade XX designation.

So, it looks to me like the arguement from the beginning has been whether or not there is such a thing as an
SAE Grade 12 Bolt. Not metric. Not bolts graded by someone else. SAE! Have still not seen any evidence from MR4WD or anyone else that SAE grade 12 Bolts exist.

CRUISERBOYFJ40

09-25-2002, 11:20 AM

Ive got pics if someone will post them

DRM

09-25-2002, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by CRUISERBOYFJ40
Ive got pics if someone will post them

email them to me - I will do it.

kwrangln

09-25-2002, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by bigdude

I also think you're a dumbass because you get your camera confiscated at work, showing you're a grunt with no pull. Perhaps you take out your inferiority complex from work here on the PBB where you can hide in the internet's cloak of anonimity.

SMACK!!!!

This guy just doesnt know when to quit, but at least his arguements are entertaining on a Jerry Springer kind of level. Here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77986) is another of his that was funny as crap, you'd think he would get tired of the taste of shoes after a while.:shaking:

DRM

09-25-2002, 11:49 AM

First pic

DRM

09-25-2002, 11:50 AM

second

DRM

09-25-2002, 11:50 AM

third and final

bronco78

09-25-2002, 11:53 AM

Grade chart according to ASTM, SAE AND ISO GRADE MARKINGS AND MECHANICAL PROPERTIES FOR STEEL FASTENERS (http://www.americanfastener.com/techref/grade.htm)

whodat

09-25-2002, 11:59 AM

"This amplifier is better, because it goes up to 11!"
whodat

HighToy

09-25-2002, 11:59 AM

1: Who actually cares? Really.
2: Why wasn't this thread deleted when it was first posted?

3: Off topic but...
Oh, and whoever said that pound for pound Ti is heavier than steel, it's actually the same weight.

Go re-read that post. He said a BLOCK not pound.

crazies... :flipoff2:

Travis Waldher

09-25-2002, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by DRM
third and final

Nice permanent marker huh? :rolleyes:

bigdude

09-25-2002, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Travis Waldher

Nice permanent marker huh? :rolleyes:

No sh!t :laughing:

Erich In AZ

09-25-2002, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep

The thread (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50340) is still around. Here is the original comment from page 6 that started this whole thing.

So, it looks to me like the arguement from the beginning has been whether or not there is such a thing as an
SAE Grade 12 Bolt. Not metric. Not bolts graded by someone else. SAE! Have still not seen any evidence from MR4WD or anyone else that SAE grade 12 Bolts exist.

Thanks for the link! I couldn't find it when I searched. Oh well, back to searching school for me! :rolleyes:

The funniest thing is he started this thread singling me out, when the BIG arguement about this was with BillaVista all along! :shaking: at least my memory is refreshed now.

DRM

09-25-2002, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Travis Waldher

Nice permanent marker huh? :rolleyes:

I was thinking the same thing :shaking:

DRM

09-25-2002, 12:27 PM

Let me see if I can sum up all these pages of a mess...

There MAY BE a "Grade 12" bolt - but it is NOT based on SAE standards and would be created purely on the standards of the individual fastener maker...

This sum it up so far?

bronco78

09-25-2002, 12:48 PM

There is the FASTENER QUALITY ACT OF 1990
Fasteners covered under the FQA are defined as limited to bolts, nuts, screws and studs (having a nominal diameter of 6 millimeters/0.25 inch or greater) unless produced under and marked as American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) A 307 Grade A.

No where in any of those documents can I find any reference to a speciation covering a fastener called "Grade 12"

I've searched through the ATSM International site which covers the specification number SAE J429 which specifies the strength and grade or ASTM A 307 Grade A which covers standard marking for SAE fasteners.

and

National Institute of Standards and Technology NIST a non-regulatory federal agency within the U.S. Commerce Department's Technology Administration. NIST's mission is to develop and promote measurements, standards, and technology to enhance productivity, facilitate trade, and improve the quality of life. NIST carries out its mission in four cooperative programs:

Basically what I have found is what has been stated here already.. Manufactures can produce and call a bolt damn near anything they want, BUT in order to mark them IAW ATSM specs, they have to meet the guidelines therein, none of which AFAIK have a spec for grade 12 (or anything above 8.2, which is less than 8.0 for some reason)

I could be wrong, but I’ve found no evidence to support the existence of a fastener marked “Grade 12” Not from the agency that produce the specs and regulations or from any fastener manufacture advertising such a fastener for sale. Plenty of circumstantial evidence has been reviewed which leads to the conclusion that a “Grade 12” fastener is not a factual reality.

DRM

09-25-2002, 12:57 PM

Don't you mean....

Originally posted by bronco78
Plenty of circumstantial evidence has been reviewed which leads to the conclusion that an accepted, standardized “Grade 12” fastener is not a factual reality.

bronco78

09-25-2002, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by DRM
Don't you mean....

Well I was pretty sure I said that,, But, umm, ya ok what you said too

EDIT:

Damn on second thought, I do like DRM's edit better..
or
Plenty of circumstantial evidence has been reviewed which leads to the conclusion that an accepted, standardized “Grade 12” fastener in accordance with ATSM or SAE standard is not a factual reality
Or , Something refering to a "Dead Horse" or words to that effect

CRUISERBOYFJ40

09-25-2002, 02:07 PM

Permanant marker:eek: I thought those were totally legit.:flipoff2:

DRM

09-25-2002, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by bronco78

Well I was pretty sure I said that,, But, umm, ya ok what you said too

EDIT:

Damn on second thought, I do like DRM's edit better..
or
Plenty of circumstantial evidence has been reviewed which leads to the conclusion that an accepted, standardized “Grade 12” fastener in accordance with ATSM or SAE standard is not a factual reality
Or , Something refering to a "Dead Horse" or words to that effect

Sorry man - I wasn't trying to correct you, but in this thread I figured being PERFECTLY CLEAR is a necessity, not a luxury ;)

LordRatner

09-25-2002, 06:27 PM

Wow, just read that thread about the wire and surface current... Good Stuff!

bronco78

09-25-2002, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by DRM

Sorry man - I wasn't trying to correct you, but in this thread I figured being PERFECTLY CLEAR is a necessity, not a luxury ;)
NO worries, I took it in the mannor in which you intended.

BillaVista

09-25-2002, 07:36 PM

when the BIG arguement about this was with BillaVista all along

Oh Christ, I knew SOMEONE was gonna drag me into this car wreck :flipoff2:

Bronco78 and DRM have summed it up well, but let me just back the bus up one more stop, in case anybody cares!

Let us ask ourselves, "what is the point to designating and thence refering to any bolt or fastener as a "grade whatever"?"

The answer is, because it tells us something in a succinct fashion, about the properties of said fastener. Presumably so we can select the proper fastener for the intended application based on those properties.

And so, all sorts of clever folks (that Bronco78 enumerated quite well) decided to come up with a bunch of specs and standards, so that Boltavista can go down to his local supplier and ask for a 1/2" Grade xx bolt and get what he needs, without having to say "I need a 1/2" bolt with a tensile strength of xxx thousand psi, and blah blah blah"

As Bronco78 pointed out, for whatever reason, there is no common industry standard for anything called "Grade 12"

So, with that in mind, we can clearly understand why there is really "no such thing as a grade 12 bolt", at least not in any meaningful manner. See, it's not about what is marked on the bolt or the box......if that marking doesn't relate to any standardized, accepted, and commonly understood set of specifications, whetever the marking is is pointless, and therefore, in terms of any practical use - non-existant.

FWIW, I have several bolts with many strike markings on the head (I don't remember the number, but it may well be 12). They are made by the Bowman Fastner company, but, as these are wise and accurate manufacturers, they ARE NOT referred to as "Grade 12" bolts, for they know that would be innacurate and pointless. They are called "Bowman Special Alloy" and if you look at the spec sheet, you will see that they are indeed superior to a Grade 8 bolt in all strengths .......but they ARE NOT "Grade 12 bolts"...though I'm sure there are all sorts of folks who call them that becasue they don't know any better.

Fortunately, you good folks now do know better :flipoff2:

hy_desert_4wheeler

09-25-2002, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by HighToy
1: Who actually cares? Really.
2: Why wasn't this thread deleted when it was first posted?

3: Off topic but...

Go re-read that post. He said a BLOCK not pound.

crazies... :flipoff2:

HighToy you need to go reread the post.. mjs408 originaly stated

QUOTE]Originally posted by mjs408
Ti is not lighter than steel pound for pound , although it is stronger, what makes Ti light is that it is so strong it can be made to have thinner walls than something out of steel so thats what makes it lighter [/QUOTE]

and then metal minder changed it to a block in this post

QUOTE]Originally posted by MetalMender

Sorry about the thread jack but I had to jump in here on this one. your saying a 2" square block of steel weighs the same as a 2" square block of Ti?:eek:

Have you ever worked with Ti ?

rich [/QUOTE]

moveaside

09-25-2002, 08:12 PM

Last time I checked this thread had 108 hits and over 2600 views getting close to the Rubicon cleanup thread if you all hate him so much than why do you look at it?:confused: Because its funny as hell someone could be that much of a prick:mad: You all hate him and want him banned but he seems to be by views alone loved by all:laughing: BTW I could think of only three people on the board I actually hate and he is one Mr4"wiener dude you sir are a victim of your own stupidity You hate what you areand in the bashing America statement you made you said in the same thread you don't like people who dislike someone because of what country they are from and then contradict yourself
BTW Lord Ratner can definitely outwheel you
You are nothing more than a joke

MR4WD

09-25-2002, 09:05 PM

Man, you people ought to get lives or something... Hating over the internet? Hours of searching? Don't you have lives, or jobs or something?? What simple lives you lead! (for those of you angered by what I have to say. I'd better make that clear for all the simpletons out there. For those of you not, good. I never really meant to piss anybody off...)

I'm not sure that I made myself clear, but let me say it now: I don't hate America. I never did, and I can't think of a reason why I will. If you miscontsrued the statements I made, then by all means I'm sorry. I'm not sorry for your feelings, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and I'm sorry you couldn't put together what I meant. I re-read it and it still stands clear to me.

I also stand corrected: It was billavista, non bitch tits in Arizona. And, I hadn't speant the time to go through the days of old posts, but I'm sure if I did, I'd find posts saying that even outside of anything approved by SAE or whomever, grade 12's don't exist. Now, I'm not saying that they are a superior bolt, and I'm not saying that they are, will be or ever were a recognized bolt by the SAE, however, I'm saying they exist. If that's not clear enough, I'm not sure what will be?

Um, my cam got confiscated at work because A: there's 3 security checkpoints I have to go through every day, and depending on the guard I may not be allowed to have a Camera which is also dependant on whom I work for. B: There's no such thing as klout, you have a minimum wage guard on a power trip following implicit orders. Most of them are very simple, so, once you go outside their pre-taught boundaries they get confused very easy. C: I have it back.

I invite anybody wants to outwheel me, to formally come up here and wheel. I also invite anybody who wants to pick over my truck with a fine tooth comb to come pick it over. It goes excellent up here, so, as far as I'm concerned a buggy with a 4cyl and 35" MTR's is kind of a joke. Whoops, what did I just say on THE rockcrawler board?!

PS: Ratty, search in depth (even very, very, very in depth) anything that was said on the electron thread. You'll find most of what almost everybody else said to be a farce, and what grandpa jeep said to be almost entirely incorrect. (I think he was shooting in the dark for most of it)

That Mick

09-25-2002, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD
Now, I'm not saying that they are a superior bolt, and I'm not saying that they are, will be or ever were a recognized bolt by the SAE, however, I'm saying they exist.

Ok, allow me to make this clear.
SAE MAKES the "Grade XX" ratings. If SAE does not HAVE an "Grade XX" rating, the bolt does NOT exhist!!!!

Matt

BTW, its "Explicit orders"
or is it differant in Canada??

LordRatner

09-25-2002, 09:44 PM

Grandpa Jeep

09-25-2002, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD
PS: Ratty, search in depth (even very, very, very in depth) anything that was said on the electron thread. You'll find most of what almost everybody else said to be a farce, and what grandpa jeep said to be almost entirely incorrect. (I think he was shooting in the dark for most of it)

Typical MR4WD. I know it all and the rest of you are idiots. Anyone else see a pattern here? Yes, search that thread see if you can find these gems talking about the pipe in the picture of the substation he posted:

Originally posted by MR4WD
The reason they're hollow, unlike what you GUESSED is because there's two surfaces for electrons to flow down, inside and outside.

Followed by:

Originally posted by MR4WD
A round pipe is easier to make, therefore that is what's used.

But no, I'm the one who was shooting in the dark.:rolleyes:

And just like here, when soundly beaten, change the subject. Notice in the start of the debate it was

Originally posted by MR4WD
That, is exactly what I said. I mean for the love of god, challenge me on this one... "Electricity only flows over the surface of a wire"

Now, I beg you to challenge me on this one. I presently have the resources to back it up and prove it....

But on his last post all of the sudden it became:

Originally posted by MR4WD
Current may, but Voltage absolutely does flow around the outside of the conductor.

Yup, I'm the one grasping at straws.

Now MR4WD, if you wish for me to continue to make you look foolish, by all means I'm up for it. But let's start a new thread instead of hijacking another.

Travis Waldher

09-25-2002, 10:05 PM

Damn... I can't believe it.

It looks like..... What Religion in a PBB thread is to DRM, is the same thing as graded bolts is to MR4WD.

With the added exception.. that DRM at least has a leg to stand on when it comes to religion, I mean, at least religion is based on opinion.

SAE grade specifications aren't, they are based on facts. MR4WD, the fact that you don't understand what SAE means, that just makes you a dumbass.

There are industry standards for a reason, if there wasn't well.... I'm going to go get me some grade 2 bolts, and a cold chisel. I'll mark them as Grade 20 bolts using the cold chisel to knock the nubs in to them. I'll then sell those Grade 20 bolts for 10x the price of Grade 2, since obviously my standards are adequate to make a Grade 20 bolt.

The fact that you don't understand what Industry standards are, means that you won't catch me dead in your death trap of a rig. Its more than likely a pile of shit that you are proud of.

The fact that people provided the proof that SAE Grade 12 does not exist, and that you choose to ignore it because you are too stubborn to see that you made a mistake. Well... that makes you worse than DRM. At least when you prove DRM wrong, he'll admit it. :rolleyes:

(Sorry for draggin you in to this DRM, I figured with your rep, that I am sure he doesn't know about. its about the biggest slam I could give by identifying him as being worse than you. ;) )

1248bullitt

09-25-2002, 10:37 PM

Damn, this thread is fawkin funny!

MR4WD: You are a dumbass! http://home.nc.rr.com/xr1stang/images/funny/thispostsucks.jpg

So let me get this straight, there is no such thing as a grade 12 bolt because SAE uses grade xx as their standard. Since they don't make a grade 12, there isn't a grade 12 bolt. Some other company might make a bolt that is similar in tensile strength and all that to what a grade 12 bolt would be. But since it is not SAE whatever it means that it doesn't exsist right?

Wes (confused):confused:

LordRatner

09-25-2002, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by 1248bullitt
Damn, this thread is fawkin funny!

MR4WD: You are a dumbass! http://home.nc.rr.com/xr1stang/images/funny/thispostsucks.jpg

So let me get this straight, there is no such thing as a grade 12 bolt because SAE uses grade xx as their standard. Since they don't make a grade 12, there isn't a grade 12 bolt. Some other company might make a bolt that is similar in tensile strength and all that to what a grade 12 bolt would be. But since it is not SAE whatever it means that it doesn't exsist right?

Wes (confused):confused:

Ya, thats about it

withamc

09-25-2002, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD
I never really meant to piss anybody off

Followed by:
Originally posted by MR4WD
not bitch tits in Arizona
Hmmm...
Originally posted by MR4WD

...I'd find posts saying that even outside of anything approved by SAE or whomever, grade 12's don't exist. Now, I'm not saying that they are a superior bolt, and I'm not saying that they are, will be or ever were a recognized bolt by the SAE, however, I'm saying they exist...

And that's where you'd be wrong. 12 marks on a bolt doesn't mean they're "GRADE 12". It means there's 12 marks on a bolt. Sheesh!! Give it up already!! :rolleyes:

And...
Originally posted by MR4WD

Current may, but Voltage absolutely does flow around the outside of the conductor.

For Gawd's sake, Mr. Know-It-All, voltage is a measure of FORCE and it DOES NOT FLOW!!!
And before you actually think I really give a shit about any of this, I just think it's funny. I'm waiting to see what kind of BS spews forth from his keyboard next.
"One day at band camp, I found a Grade 12 bolt!"

DRM

09-26-2002, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by Travis Waldher
(Sorry for draggin you in to this DRM, I figured with your rep, that I am sure he doesn't know about. its about the biggest slam I could give by identifying him as being worse than you. ;) )

It's ok... didn't you see the award I gave him on the bottom of page 2? :D:D:D

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=872525

ItsaCJ6

09-26-2002, 07:42 AM

:rolleyes:

Travis Waldher

09-26-2002, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by MR4WD

Leave my band camp Grade 12 bolt bunghole stories out of this.

Your the putz that brought it up.

:flipoff2:

Lloyd

09-26-2002, 09:19 AM

Here's another award

surlynkid

09-27-2002, 12:39 PM

the ASTM, SAE and ISO charts i have here at the plant do not list a grade 12. they do list a grade B16 (ASTM A193), but that is a high chrome alloy designed for high temperature service. it has a lower yield strength and tensile strength than grade 8.

metric has a grade 12.9, but that is not "12". 12.9 and 14.9 (metric alloy steel designations) have a higher tensile strength than grade 8.

jasonmt

09-28-2002, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by MR4WD

I don't have the box of bolts sitting in front of me right now. If I did, I'd take a picture. I can however take a multitude of blue, red and gold plated metric bolts, graded 8.9, Stainless bolts grade 3.144 or something, and grade 3, 5, 8 and 9 bolts either plated or raw...But that's not what we're talking about here. Maybe I didn't make the thread topic or any of the previous posts here clear enough, but we're talking grade 12 imperial bolts. They exist, like others have said they didn't.

Who else finds that you claim to be a competent tradesman and yet you confuse a bolt marked with a UNS # for a Graded bolt. You sir are a large danger to a real tradesman's good name. Just because you are an apprentice welder means nothing if you cannot recognize that:

A) You do not know everything about everything

B) You are not willing to admit that you are wrong and investigate what you were wrong about.

Just to help you out, read this to understand what those pesky numbers on your SS bolts mean: http://www.copper.org/standard/uns.htm

P.S. lord help us if someone was actually stupid enough to let you in a cab of a crane, let alone run it. If you lose your camera to a security guard, getting run for operating a crane you are not qualified for will get you run even faster. You are not just putting yourself at risk but everybody in the boom radius at risk. If I saw that you would be run on the spot along with the operator, and Mr. Donez would be told you were not welcome on any job I was on as well.

MR4WD

09-28-2002, 10:25 AM

I said, 3.144 or something. The something meant I'm not too sure what the grade was, but since you can't wrap your head around that I'll write next time "I'm pretty sure it's not grade 3.144, but I'll say it is just for the sake of arguement, knowing full well that's not the actual grade of the bolt" Just, so YOU won't get your panties in a bundle.

PS, I'm no longer an apprentice ironworker/welder. Even if I was, I'm sure I could figure out the difference between a 5/8 grade 5 bolt, and a 5/8 grade 8 bolt...

As far as running the crane, would you like to see my heavy lifting ticket? It expires next year, since they're going to an apprenticeship form of training, not just the 10 day class I was at in cold Lake. I'd imagine you're union, aren't you. You have that typical pussy whine, causing jobs to be over run in price and people forced to work together on the job site that don't get along. By all means, come see me up here, see the work I've done and see what I do now.... You'll find a large world outside of whatver it is that you do, exists, and happens to function in fine shape everyday...

PS, it's Mr. Fuji, or Mr. (I can't think of the guys name) up here, not mr donez. And by all means, what makes you think I'd want to be on a job with you.. What, are you commercial? What a joke.

jasonmt

09-28-2002, 10:39 AM

You sure seem to change your story alot don't you MR4WD? Last time you said anything you were a apprentice ironworker/welder with 720, in which case you would be certain to know Mr. Donez.
Being local 720 means that you were union as well. Having worked union and non union jobs around Canada and the U.S. as well as overseas, I would have to say that the size of the job dictates what it is like , not union or non union. But in Alberta it seems that the union jobs have people with more experience and better tradesmanship than the non union. What jobsite are you on now? I can give you a list of all of my INDUSTRIAL jobs for the last ten years if it would make you feel better. Also all of my commercial and yes even some residential jobs you narrow minded dumbass.

350 Samurai

09-28-2002, 11:17 AM

I don't think this moron even has a job, other than being a professional dumbass.

He proclaims to be an ironworker/welder, a crane operator (which he trained for, for 10 days :eek: ) and he claimed he was a high power lineman in the electricity thread. All these jobs and he's only 22?

Originally posted by MR4WD
Man, I couldn't be any happier with the trades than what I am now... You don't get much chance to wheel quads, 6x6 trucks, play in the dirt and generally be outside all day (albeit new surroudings monthly) stuck in a cubicle or anything with windows for that matter. Sure, summer's hot, winter's cold and mud gets in everything but when I get a chance to see the office folk grumbling out of their buildings after a shift and I'm as happy as an engineer in an arguement, I love it. Plus, I generally make more, and I'm paid to go to school. Being 22 and having large 5 and small 6 figure incomes is enticing, wouldn't you say? People who refer to the trades and think of light vehicle mechanics, plumbers and commercial electricians who do the same thing day in and day out are awfully close minded.... There's an awful lot to see and do if you're a hands-on type of person...

He make over 100 grand a year and he can't afford a grill, shocks, or a front driveshaft. :rolleyes: And this is the only vehicle he owns.

Originally posted by MR4WD
Well, here's a pic of it semi-flexed. All is well with the truck, it's got tons of power and no front driveshaft. I broke both the front shocks, so they're not hooked up either. Other than that 2WD with 8psi gets me more places than 4wd did last year with 40's....

http://www.bogginfreaks.com/phpreaders/albums/MR4WD/abm.jpg

BIG big block, fully manual 400, 32 spline 205 transfer case, 1410 rear drive shaft, (1350 front cv shaft in the garage that don't work!) 5.13's and detroits front and back. Disc brakes. 44" boggers on 15x14 beadlocked barts.

Does he look like he knows anything? Mr Dumbass in person:

jp junkie

09-28-2002, 11:26 AM

Grandpa Jeep

09-28-2002, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by 350 Samurai
He proclaims to be an ironworker/welder, a crane operator (which he trained for, for 10 days :eek: ) and he claimed he was a high power lineman in the electricity thread. All these jobs and he's only 22?

Don't forget all the pictures of the haul trucks that are generally found in mines.

Originally posted by 350 Samurai
He make over 100 grand a year and he can't afford a grill, shocks, or a front driveshaft. :rolleyes: And this is the only vehicle he owns.

In the "How much do you make" thread, he said he makes $28/hour. Must work lots of OT to get $100K. Plus, don't forget he's from Canada and those are most likely Canadian dollars.

All in all, if you look at his posts, and especially the threads he starts, they all say "look at me, don't I have a cool truck? Don't i have a cool job? Aren't I smart?" Well bud, the PBB has answered a resounding No on all counts. Why don't you go away and find someone else to stroke your massive ego.

Erich In AZ

09-28-2002, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep

In the "How much do you make" thread, he said he makes $28/hour. Must work lots of OT to get $100K. Plus, don't forget he's from Canada and those are most likely Canadian dollars.

Isn't that like $6.00hr US? :flipoff2:

Sorry to all the Canadians, but I just couldn't resist!

:D

Travis Waldher

09-28-2002, 02:01 PM

Bahh...

He's just a dumbass kid. Trying to show off here to make himself look important. Look at his pic, it says it all.

MR4WD

09-28-2002, 02:09 PM

LOL, uh oh, you guys found me out. I don't have a job, or really even exist.

If you'd like an in depth look into my life, I'll give you one. First job was at a machine shop when I was 14-16, building motors. I hand built the engine that's in my truck to this day while I was still in highschoo (when I was 16). Then, I worked weekends at a hydraulic cylinder shop mostly rebuilding and chroming the cylinders until I was 17. Then, I moved, laid paving stones for about a month until I was an endentured apprentice for a company that installed and maintained humoungous overhead doors all over Canada. From 18-22 I worked for that company travelling all over the place until a brief 3 month stint where I was moved to ontario and laid fiber optics. I was laid off. I came back up here, doing the same thing again until just recently, where I also quit again. I'm tired of all the 720 union BS, along with the fact I'm not REALLY all that interested in welding for all my life, now I dropped the trade and tried following in my old man's footsteps a bit. Now I'm a power lineman. Anybody who knows anything about Ironworking, is that part of the job is rigging. I'm by no means a crane operator, but fully and completely liscensed to run anything that'll pick 45 tons, and up to 500 tons under something similar to a "learners permit"....

As far as whatever gramps said, uh, yes, I do work in a mine... And yes, I do work lots of OT. I was just paid for working 12, 12 hour shifts. I enjoy my job, being outside and using your body in a physical means, so I don't really consider my job to be much work.. And of course, those ARE canadian dollars. my checks I'm sure would be meagher if converted to American funds, but, it's all relavent to the economy and environement you're subject to.

It's humourous that you think somebody with an above 130 intelligence quotient would be considered "smart"...

Um, in THAT pic, my grille got poked out, my driveshaft was twisted off and my shocks were bent. However, if you'd like to see them now I'll take a picture for yah... As far as it being my only vehicle, I'm working on renovations and paying off the house I'm in. How'd you like to see pics of that?

I still don't know who mister donez is, but since you think he's that important to me, I should know? I work at Syncrude (not UE-1), Suncor, Albian (not MRC) Suncor Firebag and Syncrude Aurora, with the occasional work out at Mackay River... I'm mostly into new construction and maintainence, however, before I worked at MCC for Suncor's millenium project and MRC for shell. I couldn't beleive the unwillingness of 4000 guys to co-operate with one another at either of the sites, however at Firebag, the 3000 non-union employess got along fantastic, contine to bring the job in under budget and ahead of time and have less per capita lost time incidents. That says something in itself, really.

Anyways, back to the Dana 60 inner axle seals I suppose.

MR4WD

09-28-2002, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by erich_in_AZ

Isn't that like $6.00hr US? :flipoff2:

Sorry to all the Canadians, but I just couldn't resist!

:D

Bah, it's more like 5.25.

jp junkie

09-28-2002, 03:41 PM

It's humourous that you think somebody with an above 130 intelligence quotient would be considered "smart"...

Okay? so.......... how about mediocre mental talent? I am curious, what level of intelligence would a person have to achieve or have in order for you to consider them smart?:confused:

Brutpwr

09-28-2002, 05:22 PM

I have not read all 5 pages of this thread... There may be some confusion as with metric bolts (DIN standard) there the Grade 12.9 is somewhat equivalent to the U.S. grade 8 bolts. The metric grade 8.8 bolts are similar to U.S. grade 5 bolts. In general if you need something better than a grade 5 or 8 bolt just buy "AN" aircraft bolts. They are less brittle and stronger in tensile stength than both grade 5 or 8 so for a wheeler are more than adequate.

Jason :)

4runner

09-28-2002, 06:29 PM

He never said he "bought" those bolts...he said he "saw" them at work....obviously he is stealing them to use on his personal vehicle....

it really doesn't matter WHAT is on the head of the bolt if it is not used for the job it was designated for.....

this thread went from stupid to moronic to waste-of-time in less than 6 pages.....

surlynkid

09-28-2002, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by 350 Samurai
I don't think this moron even has a job, other than being a professional dumbass.

He proclaims to be an ironworker/welder, a crane operator (which he trained for, for 10 days :eek: ) and he claimed he was a high power lineman in the electricity thread. All these jobs and he's only 22?

He make over 100 grand a year and he can't afford a grill, shocks, or a front driveshaft. :rolleyes: And this is the only vehicle he owns.

Does he look like he knows anything? Mr Dumbass in person:

probably like those guys that all claim to be seals.

withamc

09-28-2002, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD
because I have pictures. Mostly just for Erich in Azhole
WHERE ARE THE PICTURES??

MNBen

10-01-2002, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by MR4WD
[--snip

It's humourous that you think somebody with an above 130 intelligence quotient would be considered "smart"...
.

--edit for spelling.
You'd think someone with a supposed 130 IQ would understand what that meant.

Heres one reference for how rare a real 130 IQ is you moron.

-- taken from http://www.iqtest.com/scoreexplain.html

A General Intelligence Quotient Score (IQ Score) is a statistically derived number which indicates relative and comparative abilities that can be used to obtain academic skills and knowledge. You have hundreds of specific mental abilities. Some of these abilities can be measured accurately. Some of these measurements can be reliable predictors of an individual's academic achievements. Though an IQ test measures only a few of a human's mental abilities, these few abilities are targeted for measurement, because they are well known to positively correlate highly to many other human abilities. How high you score in one of these measured abilities, will strongly indicate how high you would be expected to score on the unmeasured abilities.

Statistically the following statements are true about IQ scores obtained by taking this test:

An IQ of 100 is higher than 50% of all persons taking this test.
An IQ of 110 is higher than 75% of all persons taking this test.
An IQ of 120 is higher than 93% of all persons taking this test.
An IQ of 130 is higher than 98% of all persons taking this test.

MO.... RON

rockdawgfj40

10-01-2002, 07:36 PM

hell yes there is a grade 12 bolt:flipoff2:

350 Samurai

10-01-2002, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by jeepboyben

--edit for spelling.
You'd think someone with a supposed 130 IQ would understand what that meant.

Heres one reference for how rare a real 130 IQ is you moron.

-- taken from http://www.iqtest.com/scoreexplain.html

A General Intelligence Quotient Score (IQ Score) is a statistically derived number which indicates relative and comparative abilities that can be used to obtain academic skills and knowledge. You have hundreds of specific mental abilities. Some of these abilities can be measured accurately. Some of these measurements can be reliable predictors of an individual's academic achievements. Though an IQ test measures only a few of a human's mental abilities, these few abilities are targeted for measurement, because they are well known to positively correlate highly to many other human abilities. How high you score in one of these measured abilities, will strongly indicate how high you would be expected to score on the unmeasured abilities.

Statistically the following statements are true about IQ scores obtained by taking this test:

An IQ of 100 is higher than 50% of all persons taking this test.
An IQ of 110 is higher than 75% of all persons taking this test.
An IQ of 120 is higher than 93% of all persons taking this test.
An IQ of 130 is higher than 98% of all persons taking this test.

MO.... RON

Maybe you measure IQ's in Canada like Canadian dollars: 130 IQ(Canada)=65 IQ(American)

Disclaimer: No offense meant to all other Canadians besides MR4WD ;)