I am thinking of doing dual trannys.2 sm 465s.I did a search but need more info.Has anyone mated these together?I read in one post where a guy said he was trying to mate them.Did it work and what did you do to make it work.I am looking for other options than the doulber or klune v.I don't want to spend a fortune.I have the 2 sm 465s already and a 420 2wd.Would the 420 2wd work easier?Thanks for the help.Blazin:D

i dont have any info info on mating them, but i wanted to chime in as i am looking into the same thing, only with a 465 (7:1 first?)and 4 speed cruiser tranny. i like the smoothness of the cruiser tranny so i would drive on it, putting it behind the 465. i figure to get about 245:1 in first 86:1 in second 55:1 in third and stock 36:1 in fourth, i like those options. i didnt calculate those numbers, i'm just thinkin in my head. anyway i'm checkin into it,, the only guy i know who uses two trannies is in WA. and i havent talked to him in years.

Originally posted by blazin
I am thinking of doing dual trannys.2 sm 465s.I did a search but need more info.Has anyone mated these together?I read in one post where a guy said he was trying to mate them.Did it work and what did you do to make it work.I am looking for other options than the doulber or klune v.I don't want to spend a fortune.I have the 2 sm 465s already and a 420 2wd.Would the 420 2wd work easier?Thanks for the help.Blazin:D

I have a friend running 2 465's behind a 406 and with 2 1/2 ton rockwells..Check your pm. I sent you an e-mail so you can contact him for info..:D

a few years back i remember several guys around salt lake city having this setup, believe they got the adapter from a local SLC guy who made the setups for wreckers to have ultra low gears so they could pull really heavy stuff.

- jack

When you hear back from Brians buddy. I am sure a bunch of us are interested...

Rhino the 465 has a low of 6.58to 1 the 420 has the 7to1.What is the input shaft size and spline count.My trannies are at a friends house and haven't been over there for a couple of weeks.Was thinking they were 10 spline not sure of size.Thinking you could use the stock spud shaft from the t-case adapter.465-205 that is.I am going to email that guy now.Thanks for the info.Blazin:rasta:

Try OTT industries in BC. The guy is running 2 SM420's and they and I believe he sells an adapter to mate them together. You have a lot super low options that way. The 203 205 doubler is a good way to go that is not that expensive. In fact I'm working on making my own adapter with a friend. If you wanted lower gears then you could run WMS 3.6 203 gears. It is a bit more costly though $1000 for the gears. OTT industries also has an adapter to mate a SM465 or SM420 to a Toyota case.
Check out OTT industries at:
http://www.ottindustries.com/

There is a guy in SLC that mates sm465 and np435s . He originally sold them through Six States Truck Parts. The only contact that I know has the info is Gaylon Pugh Drivelines in Utah #801-768-3171. I think it was Kevin or Gaylon I spoke with a while ago. He can set you up with the guy.
HTH

bennett

hey rhino, wouldn't you want the toyota tranny in front of the sm-465? I would assume that this would put less touque on the tranny. That seems to be the only problem with all this multiple tranny talk in that there will be so much more touque up the line from the drive shafts and such. but if you go big on u-joints and stong shafts it should work great.

i think the ott adapter lets you run a toyota tcase not tranny.

- jack

yeah I thought about doing this, and I have a lathe coming so I'll probably try it. the only tricky part is bolting it to the rear of the tranny, probably have to build a new rear bearing retainer / seal.
figure you turn down the stock output yoke and get the inners off a clutch disk, weld them together with a sleeve to create a spud shaft, make up two plates one for each tranny, peice of pipe in between to hold em together, drill the output shaft on the first tranny to line up the input for the second one (maybe shorten the input shaft slightly?) pretty simple, just have to be carefull not to overdo the throttle with the first tranny shifted down.

i would put the 420 in front of the toy to multiply the 7:1 first. but i am now thinking i might rather put two cruiser 4 speeds together. both in reverse would be low enough, and then all the other options, i'm gettin excited, lucky for me i have a retired machinist with a home shop for a neighbor. i'll have to see what we can do.
as far as extra torqe on components, it wouldnt be any different than double cases now, but you would have the tranny involved.

ok I am shure you know this but

I would use the sm420 as it is a shorter
trany.

Hmm, not sure the rating on those two but, isn't the 465 rated higher/stronger? Seems like I saw/heard that somewhere but I don't know that much about them. I've been kicking around the idea of a TH400->465->205 on my K30 but, if the 420 is comparable in strength and shorter...

If you go to the OTT site, click on the "willys story" this details some of the tranny stuff. Its a T90 to toyota 4spd...They have done dual SM420s (7.05 to 1) before, but its not on their page...I'm not sure why, but the page lists very little of what they can and do make...Mike

I've wanted to do this, but could never figure out a way to do it that would be strong enough and short enough with an auto to make it work for my truck.

Just a thought, what about the old 4 spd (435?) trans/single speed t-case in the early '70s Fords? How long is this setup, and is the t-case worth a shiat (strength)?

Pete

Oh, baddog, 420 IS shorter and comparable in strength to a 465(and lower 1st gear too)

Originally posted by BadDog
Hmm, not sure the rating on those two but, isn't the 465 rated higher/stronger? Seems like I saw/heard that somewhere but I don't know that much about them. I've been kicking around the idea of a TH400->465->205 on my K30 but, if the 420 is comparable in strength and shorter...


I wouldn't worry about hurting a SM420. I think that they are on par with the SM465 anyway.



:)

So with dual standard trannys you only need one clutch, is that right?

yep

Baddog leave the 420 to the jeepers
both ends are $$$ to adapt to anything
where a 465 is a bolt up to a 205
spend huge $$$ for an 1" is :rasta:

Yeah, but, if I ever get around to doing something like this, the 465 would be feeding into a 32 spline 205 and I would want a shorter adapter for the 465-205 connection than most of the factory versions I've seen.

I'm figuring at a minimum it will require either a complete custom input shaft with 32 spline female or cut off the input and respline (32) with the old style coupler to tie into the output of the TH400. So, that's a custom adapter, seal for back of tranny, and seal plate on the front of the 465. On the back, cut the output shaft short and respline (32) to go into the 205 and build an adapter. I don't remember what the front of the 205 looks like so I'm not sure if it will need a new seal plate or not. Obviously I'm a long way from doing anything like this since I don't even have a 465 lying around to poke at and work on realistic designs. Luckily I have a very close friend who is a master machinist and is willing to help. Heck, I haven't even finished the initial work yet, and this is WAY back down the line...

What is the input shaft size and spline count?I have a 465 at my friends house but that is 20 miles away and I don't get home till 6pm usaully.Maybe I wil get by there this weekend.Blazin

I gotta disagree rhino, the power down at the driveshafts may be similar to a dual case setup but the power going into the second tranny is extreme, whats a np205 input torque limit like? 1200lb-ft? more maybe? the limit on an sm465 is about 450lb-ft, if you put in a miserly 100lb-ft from a toyota engine multiply it by 6.5 in the first tranny you are already 200lb-ft over the limit for the second tranny, I'd be worried about twisting splines on the trannys input shaft. not that it can't be done just something else to worry about.

seems to me you would have 2 ways to mate 465s
1- custom female 10spline input gear to replace input on rear tranny. it would look real similar to 465version203 input gear.
...you would then have to make a bigger bearing retainer and bore case for larger bearing
2- cut input shaft as short as possible and spline it and have custom coupler made up. this ensures you know exactly where it will break

Just diggin' up an old thread.... Did anybody ever do this??

Originally posted by morpheus
a few years back i remember several guys around salt lake city having this setup, believe they got the adapter from a local SLC guy who made the setups for wreckers to have ultra low gears so they could pull really heavy stuff.

- jack

Wolverrine Machine shop, IIRC.

took a feild trip there when I was in trade school. still remember us coming back and telling our instructor we/ve seen a real machiune shope, we aren't cleaning again.

their floor litterly has a "carpet" made from years of shavings

NQS

I made a female 10 spline input for mine
too easy

I've been wanting to do this for a long time. I'm considering starting on it soon. I have a friend that is a retired machinist and has all his old equipment. He told me if there are enough people that are interested he could get the adapter cast. I think he said the number is 10 where it becomes cheaper to cast then to machine. Think the interest is there?

Originally posted by mytzlflick
yeah I thought about doing this, and I have a lathe coming so I'll probably try it. the only tricky part is bolting it to the rear of the tranny, probably have to build a new rear bearing retainer / seal.
figure you turn down the stock output yoke and get the inners off a clutch disk, weld them together with a sleeve to create a spud shaft, make up two plates one for each tranny, peice of pipe in between to hold em together, drill the output shaft on the first tranny to line up the input for the second one (maybe shorten the input shaft slightly?) pretty simple, just have to be carefull not to overdo the throttle with the first tranny shifted down.

I have been working on something like that and the clutch internal is what I am using with the original 465 to 205 sleeve welded to it, I am using the original 465 to 205 adapter with an adapter plate to change the bolt patern to fit the front of the other tranny.
The pilot stub on the input has to be cut down and that will shorten the hole setup to just 20" more than a regular 465/205
I still didn't finish mine so can't tell anything about how it drives but I can forsee torque issues and I am not sure if the input on the 465 can take all the torque from the low gear output from the first 465.
Will update once I am done.

Originally posted by RocnWilly
Try OTT industries in BC. The guy is running 2 SM420's and they and I believe he sells an adapter to mate them together. You have a lot super low options that way. The 203 205 doubler is a good way to go that is not that expensive. In fact I'm working on making my own adapter with a friend. If you wanted lower gears then you could run WMS 3.6 203 gears. It is a bit more costly though $1000 for the gears. OTT industries also has an adapter to mate a SM465 or SM420 to a Toyota case.
Check out OTT industries at:
http://www.ottindustries.com/

Chris from OTT industries here
Actually I am running a SM420 to a T-19/dana20 ...
I made a internally splined female output mainshaft for my SM 420.
Dual reverse is the next frontier for extreme low range.
As far as making any more....

curious on the "internally splined female output mainshaft for my SM 420. "

so did you gun drill it to accept the entire input shaft from the t19?
as you didnt mention mods to the t19 it almost sounds like it.

is that the fully syncro'd t19 with 4 useable gear ratios rather then the clunky sm465 gear spacing type?

I do not think the aim is the deep crawl ratio, it is just cheaper and easier then ORD's style, with more ratios through in to sweeten the pot.
I am doing it with the most common parts available in any wrecking yard

I plan to regear to the highest highway gears available for my danas

I do not forsee ever using triple low for anything other then occasional showoff/bragging rights

Originally posted by RHINO
i dont have any info info on mating them, but i wanted to chime in as i am looking into the same thing, only with a 465 (7:1 first?)and 4 speed cruiser tranny. i like the smoothness of the cruiser tranny so i would drive on it, putting it behind the 465. i figure to get about 245:1 in first 86:1 in second 55:1 in third and stock 36:1 in fourth, i like those options. i didnt calculate those numbers, i'm just thinkin in my head. anyway i'm checkin into it,, the only guy i know who uses two trannies is in WA. and i havent talked to him in years.

Ive got a fgriend who did this about 3 or 4 years ago. I havent seen it in action, but he claims it works great. Running a v8, to 465, to cruiser 4spd, cruiser case. I dont know the details, but I believe he had a couple made for a couple hundred, and made the plate himself. Something to consider, reverse, revrse, goes forward. So no really stupid low reverse.

You can PM Toploader4x4 on the board, he has the 465-465-205 setup in his trail rig. If there is enough interest, I can put a page on my website on how he made his adapter. If there is anyone that is worried about the second tranny taking the torque, well, he has a 450+ hp engine, rockwells, and ain't skeered of the skinny pedal and he hasn't had any problems in 3 years. Check out this vid (http://www.rattlerock.com/Videos/Kevin%20on%207.MPG) of the rig in Windrock.

I am pretty certain I posted the pictures of Kevin's (toploader4x4) dual 465 set-up quite awhile ago. Look for it under my name.I think it was a thread entitled dual tranny's or something.

search the following and you wil find the pictures:

PICS OF DUAL 465's.

Originally posted by RHINO
i would put the 420 in front of the toy to multiply the 7:1 first. but i am now thinking i might rather put two cruiser 4 speeds together. both in reverse would be low enough, and then all the other options, i'm gettin excited, lucky for me i have a retired machinist with a home shop for a neighbor. i'll have to see what we can do.
as far as extra torqe on components, it wouldnt be any different than double cases now, but you would have the tranny involved.

I think you would want to drive on the forward tranny. otherwise the synchros in the rear most tranny would get a hell of a work out accelerating/decelerating all the gears of the forward tranny and the clutch every shift. my ranger OD made shifting the sm465 behind it noticably harder...

Originally posted by onetonwillysands10
search the following and you wil find the pictures:

PICS OF DUAL 465's.

here it is:http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56045&highlight=PICS+OF+DUAL+465s

try matching your rpms a little better when shifting
use the syncros a little less

if you run on the forward trans(A box), that will put the rear trans (B box) in a position it was not really designed for
when A is in Rev the B box inout shaft will be spinning backward
this may or may not cause problems but the only time a trans sees reverse torque like that is on deceleration
I am certain you can put a lot more pressure into it under power with A box in rewind then was thought of in stock apps

this could be a non issue but I still am undecided on what will/could be harmed

mine isnt in the vehicle yet. I keep changing my mind on the adapter design.
it is down to 2" between trans A and B, 14" total length over a single trans.

for a 1 off I would find a close ratio t19 or something similar as the main driving box to get more useable ratios and just use a granny box for reduction chores.
Fords have an advantage here as chev never used a nice ratio box.
I am unversed in Dodge stuff but I would like to know if they used a close ratio version of the np truck trans?