Four Hole saws brands tested

[blueballs]

Not sure if this is interesting or not but I'll post it anyway........

I found that notching tubes with my HF notcher and hand drill was a rather crude and violent process... Before I converted my notcher into a ridgidly clamped laydown style it is now, I had searched high and low in all the local stores and the internet trying to find a hole saw with a ton of teeth on them, i.e. I was hoping to find something like a hack saw blade maybe 14-18 tooth.... I found nothing... So I bought 4 of the best blades I could find while having the most teeth too...

I cut four pieces 1.5" 0.083 and four pieces 1" 0.25 for testing... I was interested mainly in two things, how "nice" I could cut on thin stuff and how easily (fast) I could cut on thicker stuff while looking for any weirdness in the feed during the cutting process...

The four blades tested were all 1.5" from Lenox, Milwaukee, Sioux and Morse...

http://img233.exs.cx/img233/9597/saws0zx.jpg

Here's the setup: (all cuts were at a 45deg as you can see in the pics)

http://img207.exs.cx/img207/3420/setup1yv.jpg

When I cut the 0.083 I kept the feed as slow as reasonably possible and here's the results... As you can see the Lenox blade made a mess of the edges, the Morse was a little better (hard to see in the pic) then the sioux... The Milwaukee was definiatly the best.. and definiatly had the most "fluid" feel during the feed...

http://img207.exs.cx/img207/9066/15in0120slowcut1ef.jpg

When I cut the 1", the feed rate was pretty fast, as if I were in a hurry to quickly fab something.... Here's the results...

http://img207.exs.cx/img207/2451/1in025wallfastcut2qs.jpg

Again the Lenox was a mess (relative to the others), then Morse slithtly better and the Milwaukee and Sioux were similar but the Sioux wouldn't cut as easily and gave a weird feeling during the cutting, almost like it would stall for a moment, cut then stall... and the Milwaukee was the best..

***Unfortunatly I can't comment on the relative life of the teeth but what I will say is that during some cutting after this test I broke a tooth off both the lenox and the Morse blades... Rather unimpressive as I wasn't doing anything crazy...

In summary, do they all cut...... of course...... but before I bought more I wanted to know which one I should get more of since I'm the type who always wonders if there's something better out there..... anyhow, I'm going to the store on Monday to buy me some Milwaukee.... we'll see if they last...

Maybe others have had a different experience or opinion???

:p

[EMG7895]

I have always had the best luck with milwaukee sawzall blades, hole saws and drill bits.

[AprilzWarrior]

NONE OF THE ABOVE are BACKED WITH LIFE TIME WARRANTY.... IMO only, the MAC tools Hole Saws are only $15 each and are backed no questions asked... buy 2 and forget it !!!


HTH
AW

[BajaBilly]

Good Info blueballs.

Thanks!

[dirtytoy]

what kind of backing do they have? if it goes dull I can return it? or just if I break teeth off of it?

[ElPasoEric2005]

I'd like to know more about the warranty. Do I really need to break it or just go dull.

[heavytlc]

I have used a ton(20+) of the Lennox hole saws, they suck, but even missing 60% of the teeth they will still cut. The millwakee have seemed to last the longest in my notcher also

[90TOYPU]

WOW....nice info.....thanks for your work

[StinkBug]

I've actually had amazing luck with my set of Matco hole saws. My 1.75 and 1.5 saws are getting pretty bad, but have both probably done over 2000 notches apiece. I've had the same set of hole saws for almost 3 years now and I'm just now looking at replacing a couple.

Dallas

[Joey D]

Spray it with some WD40 when your cutting. Makes it last longer no matter what brand.
I use Greenlee hole saws.

[Benny]

I regularly use Ace Hardware brand hole saws. They wont fit into the nothcer, as they have the bit welded to them, but they are lifetime guarranteed. I cut 1 1/4" holes through 1/2" plate and 1/8" sheet metal.

For the notcher, I was using lenox, but I will be switching to milwaukee now. ;)

[JeepAddict]

I sure find this interesting because I use hole saws! Now I don't have to buy all those crappy ones. This was a great effort and I definitely appreciate it! What better follow up to the tube notcher modification thread could there be? I wish I was using them in a tube notcher, but unfotunately my applications are generally more mundane. Thanks for sharing!

[mudhound72]

I have the Mac and I love them, Everthing has a lifetime guarranteed even the centering drill bit (broke first one last week). I was two cheep to buy a 3/4" bit to drill threw some 1" plate used the hole saw the only damage I did was were some of the paint off. I broke one 2" hole saw by being a clutz knocking the drill off the hood of a truck. They are worth every penny :flipoff2:

[dirtytoy]

so does anyone know the warranty on the matco ones?

[Peter_C]

I have a set of the Milwaukee's, but the nicest set I have seen is the new Bosch set. They are quick change chucks, and supposedly excellent quality. The quick change chuck allows you to remove the bit and quickly punch out the metal or wood stuck in the middle of the saw.

[tsm1mt]

So who's tested the Blu-Mol brand hole-saws?

That's what I use primarily, though I've never done a comparison with others..

[steveh]

Anybody used the Morse brand Van Sant sells?

http://vansantent.com/hole_saw_cutters_MK.htm

[TLCObsession]

I don't buy them from Van Sant, but I buy them from my local supplier. I have had good luck with them and the Milwaukee units.

[Gummi Bear]

So who's tested the Blu-Mol brand hole-saws?

That's what I use primarily, though I've never done a comparison with others..

Blu Mol holesaws don't last me for very long at all. I've never used the Milwaukee holesaws before, but I've always had good luck from the others he's tested here. One other that I'd like to see a comparison of is a Greenlee holesaw. I use, and have used them for years.

[Sub-versive]

The Greenlee holesaws blow. On a job where the architect wanted the light fixtures hanging on some "decorative" 1/4" steel, we had to drill 45 3/4"(actual hole size 1 1/8") holes. We chucked them up in a mag-drill(electro-magnetic base), the Greenlee holesaws lasted 3 holes, they wore flat. We switched to Lenox and got about 10 holes with them. I haven't used them to build a cage though, so I am not disputing the previous findings, just saying the Greenlee's are worse than Lenox for service life. I haven't used the Milwaukie holesaws, the local wholesale houses stock only Greenlee and Lenox. But I will definately make an effort to try them. Thanks for posting your results. :grinpimp: :beer:

[KS Toy]

So who's tested the Blu-Mol brand hole-saws?

That's what I use primarily, though I've never done a comparison with others..


Have not really "tested" them but use the heck out of them. They kick but and last a long time.

[Sub-versive]

Oh, and we got those results using 'Anchor Lube' to try and extend the life of the holesaws.

[bob large]

Good info blueballs. thanks, :)

[broncorob]

Man, I've got exactly the opposite experience. The milwaukee hole saws I was buyine were junk. Would lose teeth after a couple of notches. I switched to Lenox and never looked back. I built last years entire tube chassis and am still using the same Lenox hole saw

[rusted]

I am a Lennox loyalist after dealing with milwaukee sawzall blades on my house projects and cutting up two toyotas with them. I went to Lennox and wondered what the hell I had been thinking, changing blades every 4 minutes.

I'll definitely give the Milwaukee holesaws a shot though, and I'm going to try the Milwaukee sawzall blades again. Just too many people swear by them, I may have been to harsh on them or got a bad batch etc.

Good writeup.

[AthlonAJ]

Use my notcher for fulltime business, mainly 1.75x.120 tube and have had different results. I think a lot of it depends on drill speed, pressure you're putting on it and what you do to keep the teeth cool. Have my notcher horizontal too with a DeWalt gear reduction drill, turns around 350-400 rpm I think? But also use stick lubricant which works much better than a liquid IMO. Anyways, by far the biggest POS holesaws are made by DeWalt. Picked one up when I had no other choice..waste of money. Tried the Simonds and they were ok but seemed to snap teeth off easy. Sioux I had terrible luck with, not as bad as the DeWalt but still crap. I use nothing but Lenox blades for my bandsaw so I finally tried those for the holesaw, wow. I've been on the same one for the last 6 months, no teeth missing, showing a little sign of wear but all in all good. One thing I've been doing differently though is letting the saw do it's job and not bearing down on it much at all, with the stick lube it runs cool and keeps it sharp.

[socalchef]

So who's tested the Blu-Mol brand hole-saws?

That's what I use primarily, though I've never done a comparison with others..

I've only used Blu Mol so far and my notches always look like the Lennox notches, if not a little worse. Built my cage, a bumper, and a front grill hoop with one set, only broken one tooth I think.

[Norcaljr]

so does anyone know the warranty on the matco ones?


I have the Mac and I love them, Everthing has a lifetime guarranteed even the centering drill bit (broke first one last week). I was two cheep to buy a 3/4" bit to drill threw some 1" plate used the hole saw the only damage I did was were some of the paint off. I broke one 2" hole saw by being a clutz knocking the drill off the hood of a truck. They are worth every penny :flipoff2:


there ya go

[broncorob]

Another point is I don't think it matters how clean the cut is. No matter how clean it is, you need to grind it down to get thick steel to weld to. Look at the pic. See how thin the steel is at the edges.

[BadDog]

Actually, if you cut it like you should to get the hole saw to work correctly, you won't have any sharp edges. You need to cut it so that the saw only takes a bit depth of about 1/3 of the saw diameter. Keeps it from jambing before you break through since the "bites" fall out, cuts faster and cooler, and no grinding needed.

For what it's worth, I've had the best luck with Blue Mol, but haven't tried many. Also had a Makita that did ok, but then started spitting teeth and failed quickly. But I do most of my notching with chop saw...

[Dan Dibble]

What nobody uses Starrett???

From my experience they are the best.

[Foxfab]

It should be mentioned again that ALL hole saws should use some sort of lube on them. I preffer Ridgid premium dark thread cutting oil. Kicks ass.

[bspencer]

good write up!.........too bad at our local Lowes only brand they have is Lennox

[pmurf1]

I bought a 1.75 Lenox yesterday to make 2 holes in 4" copper so I could braze on a fitting. By the second hole, I knocked off two teeth right near the weld, it still did finish the hole though. But two holes? What a piece of shit IMO. That and you could watch it wobble while drilling, it definitely wasn't true. Using a cordless 18V Ryobi drill, so it wasn't really a torque issue. The drill will stop (and case crack but that's a different story) if you really put a whole lot of stress on it, but that wasn't the case. Plus the wholesale house wouldn't warranty it. Not that I'm that concerned about the $6, but I'm calling the rep tomorrow out of principle.

[broncorob]

[QUOTE=BadDog]Actually, if you cut it like you should to get the hole saw to work correctly, you won't have any sharp edges. You need to cut it so that the saw only takes a bit depth of about 1/3 of the saw diameter. Keeps it from jambing before you break through since the "bites" fall out, cuts faster and cooler, and no grinding needed.
QUOTE]
I'm not following your description of the correct way to cut tube with a holesaw :confused:
Bit depth?

[fivetenben]

I bought a 1.75 Lenox yesterday to make 2 holes in 4" copper so I could braze on a fitting. By the second hole, I knocked off two teeth right near the weld, it still did finish the hole though. But two holes? What a piece of shit IMO. That and you could watch it wobble while drilling, it definitely wasn't true. Using a cordless 18V Ryobi drill, so it wasn't really a torque issue. The drill will stop (and case crack but that's a different story) if you really put a whole lot of stress on it, but that wasn't the case. Plus the wholesale house wouldn't warranty it. Not that I'm that concerned about the $6, but I'm calling the rep tomorrow out of principle.



Heres a theory, maybe those more experienced will know better:

Seems like thats a TPI vs material thickness issue. I *think* the rule of thumb is at least three teeth should contact the material at all times. But get too many teeth and theres no place for the chips to go. Since alot of hole saw just cut holes in flat stuff, the teeth are cutting continuously, ie infinatly "thick" material. Which leads us to big ass teeth that break on thin tube. Tooth profile might also be working against us. A continuous cut (hole in plate) should have a different profile than an interupted cut(notching tube).

Can any of you real machinists out there comment on this?


Ben

[DavidVanVorous]

Heres a theory, maybe those more experienced will know better:

Seems like thats a TPI vs material thickness issue. I *think* the rule of thumb is at least three teeth should contact the material at all times. But get too many teeth and theres no place for the chips to go. Since alot of hole saw just cut holes in flat stuff, the teeth are cutting continuously, ie infinatly "thick" material. Which leads us to big ass teeth that break on thin tube. Tooth profile might also be working against us. A continuous cut (hole in plate) should have a different profile than an interupted cut(notching tube).

Can any of you real machinists out there comment on this?


Ben

TPI is a problem with tubing because the number of teeth engaging the matrial varies as one goes through the tube. You may "start out" with several teeth into the metal(tangental), when you break through and are dealing with the "side wall cut" of the tube the teeth of the typical coarse tooth saw catches on both side walls. Then you're back to a situation of being essentially tangental with an appropriate number of teeth again as you finish on the opposite side. Additionally the rigidity of the cutter and vibration in the part also play a role. Stiffer is better for the cutter wall and a solid vibration free hold of the part is also important for tool life.

With heavy thickness and soft materials, other problems come up. Thick materials and typical hole saw tooth throat depths make for no clearing of the chip problems. Soft materials really like an open tooth arrangements (like skip tooth saw blades) on flat stock for clearing chips and on heavy flat stock again you run into the chip clearing issue only its compounded because most soft materials tend to gum up the teeth as well.

The "best" tool Ive run into is the rotabroach for on site drilled big holes, tube cutting and large accurate holes in thick section materials. Lots of teeth, heavy walls with chip clearance to the shank because there not much more than a hollow multitooth end mill sometimes with center coolant feed capabilities.
For a job shop they make sense and can pay for themselves pretty quickly in comparison to a saw, for Joe average shade tree wrench that might use them once to fab 1 frame, cage, etc. theyre a touch pricey in the real big sizes ($550 got me a 3.5" diameter x 2.5 depth of cut a number of years ago) and have too large a shank for a typical drill press(5/8-3/4" shank on the big guys).

D.

[BadDog]

I'm not following your description of the correct way to cut tube with a holesaw :confused:
Bit depth?
I'm just saying that you cut the tube before running the hole saw through. Some guys try to essentially make the cut *with* the hole saw so that a section falls off the end when the cut is made. If the depth of the *bite* of the hole saw into the end of the tube (the fish mouth) is about 1/3 the diameter of the saw, the you will get 2 "bites" falling out on the ground and nothing clogging the depth/throat of the hole saw when you make the plunge. It also avoids those razor sharp edges at the "lips" of the fish mouth that have to be ground down. Does that make sense?

[broncorob]

I'm just saying that you cut the tube before running the hole saw through. Some guys try to essentially make the cut *with* the hole saw so that a section falls off the end when the cut is made. If the depth of the *bite* of the hole saw into the end of the tube (the fish mouth) is about 1/3 the diameter of the saw, the you will get 2 "bites" falling out on the ground and nothing clogging the depth/throat of the hole saw when you make the plunge. It also avoids those razor sharp edges at the "lips" of the fish mouth that have to be ground down. Does that make sense?

Ah, I see what you're saying. That's kinda what I thought you were gonna say. The more angle you have tho, the tougher it is to do that. Like the examples above. I doubt you could do an angle that steep with the method you are talking about.

[mudddog91]

Blu-mol hole saws have woked best for me.Ive tries the starrets but they didnt seem to cut as nice.Also keeping them lubed is key.I use Boe-lube.

[BadDog]

I doubt you could do an angle that steep with the method you are talking about.
I just did this last night. First time I've used the hole saw notcher in ages, mainly due to some complex angles and being too late to run the chop saw. Anyway, it was about 40* off one way and 12* the other. Wrapped some tape around the 1.75" tube to get a relatively straight 90* reference line, then measured off that to get an approximate cut line. Clamped into band saw and did the ~40* cut leaving just under 3/4" of extra as measured from the depth of the "fish mouth". 2 cuts took maybe 1 minute total on the band saw, another 3 minutes or so total on the hole saw (not counting setup). Went straight through, no clogging, no problems, and no grinding.