I know it has been discussed a bit before but it I think it should be addressed further:

Like most folks I made the rockcrawling team a business. The business owns the buggy. I can get an umbrella policy for myself (personal policy) that includes rec wheeling but will not touch any business or competitve use of the rig.

Does anyone have insurance that covers them while competing?

I know there are racing policies and I doubt that any rockcrawling teams can afford them. I am not trying to protect the company assests as much as trying to protect myself from being sued by some opposing insurance company.

Maybe Nick can give us some insight on his situation? Here, or in a private way if need be.

If your business was a corporation wouldnt that cover you from being personally sued? I am ready to take the step into making my team into a business (assuming that is the smart thing to do), I was going to get on here and start asking what everyone else was doing. It seems that I am spending way to much money to just write off as being a hobby, maybe I just need to try winning more! Why did you decide to become the business?

This has been discussed for awhile...... I don't know of anyone that has been able to get insurance. I heard Dustin webster was working on something. I think most teams are broke from rockcrawling and there is nothing to sue for except a lot of bills! :D

Well regardless of who owns the rig, it seems to me that the driver or spotter could get sued for thier actions. My business is an LLC which I am told offer no protection from liability.

Well regardless of who owns the rig, it seems to me that the driver or spotter could get sued for thier actions. My business is an LLC which I am told offer no protection from liability.

LLC should should protect you like a corp. the dif is the way you get taxed.

I understand what you are saying but have been told that an injured person (or insurance company) could sue the promoter, my company, or me personally. The promoter might take the hit, my company isn't worth squat and neither am I but I need to think about my family.

The thing is, I have seen horrid accidents happen that must generate expensive bills that insurers do not want to pay. Where is the money coming from? I have not heard of any lawsuits.

You all bring up so good questions and ideas. I know as a promoter I've had to have insurance on the event incase someone in the crowd gets hurt. I think we need to find a insurance company that will cover the compititors during the event. Like what you do for little league. Something like that. If anybody has any info on something like this, let me know. I'll work on getting it to the UROC staff and setting it up. Maybe something you can sign up for per event or for a season. Just me talking!

You can do a couple of things to cover your own ass, But the event organizers should be helping us out with this...

But like usual they don't give a shit if you get sued for crunching a small child that's standing to close cause you lose a goodyear tire..

They cover their own asses and leave you to fend for yourself, Thanks for the show.

You can do a couple of things to cover your own ass, But the event organizers should be helping us out with this...

But like usual they don't give a shit if you get sued for crunching a small child that's standing to close cause you lose a goodyear tire..

They cover their own asses and leave you to fend for yourself, Thanks for the show.

Our insurance for events covers the land owners and sponsors, drivers and promoter are left out.

We have been searching for a more comprehensive policy for sometime now.

We'll continue to look, but please don't expect us to do it all. As the old saying goes, you got pay to play. Our motorsport is not the only one having these problems... :(

Rich

You can do a couple of things to cover your own ass, But the event organizers should be helping us out with this...

But like usual they don't give a shit if you get sued for crunching a small child that's standing to close cause you lose a goodyear tire..

They cover their own asses and leave you to fend for yourself, Thanks for the show.

I have been around motor sports all of my life, amature and pro. I am new to rock crawling, and really love it. It baffles me that there is NO drivers association. Guess what, there is power in numbers. If you want insurance coverage demand it as a group. Look at Nascar, Cart, etc. The drivers dictate policy. I am only following this thread related to insurance. What about other issues that go unaddressed.

I am in the insurance industry and was working with a company last year to start covering the sport. The problem the underwriter was facing is this is a new sport and there is not a real long term track record for claims for the underwriters to look at for creating rates and assessing risk. I am sure if the promoters were to unify for this one task (which I know may never happen) the company would find a way to write the coverage, especially with the volume of teams that would be buying the coverage. The promoters need to link up and join their numbers together addressing # of events, # of competitors, years in existence, and # of incidents. Between UROC, WE-Rock, ProRock, and NEUROC (these being the big ones in the "spot light" they could create a track for the underwriting force to look at. We as the competitors will most likely not get as far as the promoters will as a unit. With the season begining now is the time to make this happen, not only because of the event risk but to get the underwriters to take a look at an actual competition.

I have been around motor sports all of my life, amature and pro. I am new to rock crawling, and really love it. It baffles me that there is NO drivers association. Guess what, there is power in numbers. If you want insurance coverage demand it as a group. Look at Nascar, Cart, etc. The drivers dictate policy. I am only following this thread related to insurance. What about other issues that go unaddressed.


I find it funny that for the last 5+ years I have been spewing this knowledge and you just thought of it on your first post!?
I know you do not work for Uroc so what other type of knowledge would you like to help us with!!!!
I like to think of this as a new sport that we control because of the vehicles we build or business's all of us own....

But JESUS when will people figure it out..

This sport will never go were we the competitor wants it to go,
until we take control of it and run it our way...

Then it will work, until then someone else will make money off of us!!!!

Sorry dude, not sure where your coming from. I did'nt mean to offend you. As I said I am new to your motor sport. My suggestion regarding a Drivers Association may be old and redundant, however I have never seen or heard of one related to rock crawling. So, if you have been spewing this out for 5+ years why isn't there a drivers association? As of today the drivers control very little. Beyond insurance , there about 150 safety issues that go unaddressed. Its up to you the drivers. Do you all want these things addressed, or are you just happy that some enity will run an event with little, or no regard to the participants.

Must be another mis keyboard communication on my part.....
You offended me in no way... I was actually making fun of myself and all the crap we/me have gone thru over the years trying to help and create a change but one can't do it alone.

It seems sometimes like alot of them are just content being there and doing what there told to participate in hopes that someone see's them so they can land that big sponsor check... adding fuel to the fire..

You know I spend too much time on line. I'm newly retired so what the hell. You are absolutly on the right track. Others maybe do not realize how much better and safer your sport will be with driver input. I would say that a drivers association might be viewed by the promoters as problematical. Sort of like a labor vs. managment situation. They, however need to look beyond that and visualize what good can come with everyones input. Look, they need you, and you need them. Potentially it could be a win win situation. You Sir are thinking the right thoughts. The time is now to get the ball rolling. Like this next UROC event. After the drivers meeting, ask the drivers and spoters to asemble some where, and present your very valid thoughts. I'm sure you will be overwelmed by the response. Remember, it is about the drivers\spoters, promoters, and sponsers, all bringing something to the table for the betterment of the sport. See ya all in SLC.

I hear exactly what your throwin down...
Someone will lose there life/hurt somebody else or someone will get sued and they will lose everything because at the end they'll be the only one there defending themselves!!!
We as drivers need to take care of ourselves and family first and put on the show second..
I wonder what would happen if a sponsored company got sued along with the driver?

Anyways hopefully I'll see yah at the show..

Sea, if you want to get with me, I'll see what I can do about getting the info together for a insurance company.

Sgt, Thanks for the thought and reply. I am only your basic enthusiastic spectator. My point of view only had to do with a drivers association. A drivers association as a seperate enity. Seperate from the sponsers and promoters. Look, the Promotors have a goal in mind as do the sponsers. I'm thinking that the drivers\spoters have goals, worries, and concerns somewhat different than the other 2 groups. The insurance issue, I'm sure is shared by all. Quite possibly there isn't any interest in a driver\spoter association. Maybe its all about some one putting on an event, and just participating, not worring about anything else. If thats the case than my head is up my ass, and I am seeing this all wrong. Anyway Sgt, thanks again for your reply. Insurance surely is a good start. Best Regards.......

What I would like to see is a company on site at the event that coulds sell insurance to cover the driver and the spotter incase of injury, like at a little leage for the kids. Something like that. Also one for the covering the teams if the injure someone else, if they want to get it.

A couple of observations

I think the biggest obstacle to a driver's association is the drivers themselves. Everyone is always pleading poverty, how many would fork over $100 (or more? even though it's only $10/month) a year to belong to a drivers association?

And the association is likely to be very weak until
- every driver has to belong to the organization in order to drive in an event
- the association has enough strength to negotiate with a united voice
- the rock crawling sanctioning bodies take the association seriously
- the association can offer drivers and spotters tangible benefits eg. health insurance, event insurance.

Not that it couldn't be done, but it would take some determined individuals a lot of perserverance to get it accomplished, with very little or no thanks.

Not sure what racing sanctioning bodies sea is posting about, but I honestly don't think the NASCAR drivers have a lot of power. If they all decided to strike at the next event, every single car would have hundred's of drivers apply for that vacant seat. NASCAR and Formula One drivers have attempted to strike before - with zero success.

The one area that sanctioning bodies will listen to a PDA (professional driver's associations) is safety. In most other area's they just don't give a damn. And trying to get a bunch of driver's to agree on anything is like herding cats. And look what a team owners association did to the premier open wheel series in the USA. CART is a shadow of it's former self.

On the insurance issue. I seriously doubt that any of the rock crawling teams would be able to afford insurance EVEN if it were available. Race insurance is extremely high. We have race insurance that covers our vehicles, tow vehicles, and trailers to and from the track, at the shop, at the track, BUT NOT DURING THE RACE. Just cannot afford it.

The SCCA dropped rally in 2004 because the rates were too high and the club could no longer justify carrying the insurance cost and risk. If a club with 80 thousand members cannot afford rally insurance, do you honestly think a po-dunk rock crawling driver's association (with very little competition history) would ever be able to?

Noble idea's for sure, very difficult to implement. I wish whoever tackles this the best of luck.

My strategy would be
- incorporate the team (not even a LLC)
- incorporate the vehicle as an entity
- lease the vehicle to the team
- carry as much insurance as you can fford
- insure the business's for as much as you can afford
- keep your personal stuff out of all documents
- avoid driving over spectators

and then hope like hell.

A couple of observations

I think the biggest obstacle to a driver's association is the drivers themselves. Everyone is always pleading poverty, how many would fork over $100 (or more? even though it's only $10/month) a year to belong to a drivers association?

And the association is likely to be very weak until
- every driver has to belong to the organization in order to drive in an event
- the association has enough strength to negotiate with a united voice
- the rock crawling sanctioning bodies take the association seriously
- the association can offer drivers and spotters tangible benefits eg. health insurance, event insurance.


Regarding the first paragraph, I would imagine you'd have more resistance to the WORK that goes into that than the $100. Same sort of applies to paragraph 2. My understanding is that World Of Outlaws is sanctioned & promoted by the drivers "association". In other words, for this venture to be successful, the drivers assocation actually has to SANCTION their own events. That means they have to do all the legwork, drivers need to take turns as judges, selling T-shirts, keeping score, etc, etc, etc.


TEX

What kind of insurance do monster truck drivers carry? I know during our events we have coverage for spectators, but the drivers must bring their own. I think Monster Truck Drivers carry their own for all their events big and small.

What kind of insurance do monster truck drivers carry? I know during our events we have coverage for spectators, but the drivers must bring their own. I think Monster Truck Drivers carry their own for all their events big and small.

Some of 'em do, some don't. Example, Schaffer has a policy for the Bearfoot fleet, same for Chandler & Bigfoot. What we've done at some local events was get insurance for the small-time drivers THROUGH Bearfoot or Bigfoot. It's EXPENSIVE!!! I know we can insure 15-20 mud races for the price of ONE monster truck show :eek:

TEX

I was trying to set up a program with a company that deals with race teams and will write everthing into a prackage. At the time there wasnt enough interest from the competitors to sell it to the underwriters.

I was trying to set up a program with a company that deals with race teams and will write everthing into a prackage. At the time there wasnt enough interest from the competitors to sell it to the underwriters.

There's one group up here that insures individual racers through the sanctioning body. Essentially, the racers are all charged for individual 1-day policies before they're allowed to race. As I recall, it isn't very expensive done that way. Will have to see what more I can find.

TEX

There's one group up here that insures individual racers through the sanctioning body. Essentially, the racers are all charged for individual 1-day policies before they're allowed to race. As I recall, it isn't very expensive done that way. Will have to see what more I can find.

TEX

The problem is that no underwriters have heard of rockcrawling and also it is a newer sport. Im an insurance agent and also a competitor and Im trying to find something to cover my butt.

The problem is that no underwriters have heard of rockcrawling and also it is a newer sport. Im an insurance agent and also a competitor and Im trying to find something to cover my butt.

Can you just call it "off-road racing"???


TEX

Along with liability, has anyone tried to insure their buggies for theft? DO you just claim it's a vehicle you title it as? Do you just tell them it's a dune buggy or whatever and that you don't race it? I couldn't even get theft coverage for my buggy because I told them I raced in it...

Hal