Alright. Welcome to the thrid installment of the

Topic of the Week

The subject for the week is Gas Tank Mods.

This covers a number of possibilities:
- fuel cells
- lifting your tank
- EFI implications

These are only a few suggested lines of discussion.

Please, don't breath the fumes.

When I decided to stretch my WB 105", I had to get the gas tank out of the way. I had already incorporated the 5.0 fuel pump inside the tank on the stock wrangler fuel sending unit, and the 20 gallons is plenty for what I need, so I did not see the sense in buying a new fuel cell, so I just raised the tank(a plastic 20 gal, from a 94 YJ).
I cut a hole from side to side of the bed, and 24" from rear to front, raised the tank 6 1/2", built new frame mounted supports and a new frame to mount a new 1/8" thick bed,(I still need to be able to attach the rear seat for my daughters when off roading).
Its a little bit of work, but nothing tricky about it.
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-646962-MVC-012S.JPG
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-647005-MVC-023S.JPG
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-593800-MVC-013S.JPG

alright I'll be the first one to bite.:D I have a 53 cj5 and anyone that has one knows that the shitty 10 gallon tank just isn't going to cut it. What I did with mine was use another stock tank, and mounted it underneath the passenger seat (just like the driver side). Pretty easy mod if you don't have the tool box under the seat to begin with.

Since Nasvik is hibernating for the winter, I'll post a link to his writup.

http://www.jeepshots.com/tech/gastank.html

What are the laws concerning fuel cells in CA?

Originally posted by Dan-H
Since Nasvik is hibernating for the winter, I'll post a link to his writup.

http://www.jeepshots.com/tech/gastank.html

I was wondering when that'd pop up. I agree with h8. Quite possibly one of the easiest mods overall I've ever been involved with.

in Okla. you can run a fuel cell as long as it is vented (told by cop). i was talking to a cop and he said that you will be fine although he said you will get questioned more if you get pulled over. Apparently drug runners like to stash goods in fuel cells. He said be polite and explain everything and you should be ok.

I did the TJ gas filler neck swap on my CJ-7 I am running that beast of a 21-gallon tank. Can you run a 15 with that swap? I need to clear things up a bit to keep that 60 from man handling the tank. What are some options? Get a BFH and make room…that is my thought!

Chris G.

Ok, here's a question for you guys. I have one of those plastic replacement tanks in my Jeep. I'm converting to EFI and need to add a return line. My first thought was to just drill, tap and add a second fitting near the pickup line. I emailed the manufacturer, told them what I was doing and asked if they would sell me another pickup fitting. They told me I couldn't do that and would ruin my tank if I tried. They said the tank was thicker where the pickup was and suggested I put the return in the fuel sender. There is no way to do that without eliminating the sender, and I'm not going to run without a gas guage. The tank is about 1/4" thick everywhere and doesn't look any thicker around the pickup or the sender. Has anyone else tried this? Another concern I have is stock EFI tanks have a baffle around the pickup so the pump doesn't starve. I'm obviously not going to have this and am wondering how much of a problem it will be. Any thoughts?

Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep
Ok, here's a question for you guys. I have one of those plastic replacement tanks in my Jeep. I'm converting to EFI and need to add a return line. My first thought was to just drill, tap and add a second fitting near the pickup line. I emailed the manufacturer, told them what I was doing and asked if they would sell me another pickup fitting. They told me I couldn't do that and would ruin my tank if I tried. They said the tank was thicker where the pickup was and suggested I put the return in the fuel sender. There is no way to do that without eliminating the sender, and I'm not going to run without a gas guage. The tank is about 1/4" thick everywhere and doesn't look any thicker around the pickup or the sender. Has anyone else tried this? Another concern I have is stock EFI tanks have a baffle around the pickup so the pump doesn't starve. I'm obviously not going to have this and am wondering how much of a problem it will be. Any thoughts?

You might be able to T it into the vent on the fuel inlet. Just a thought.

I'm making my own fuel tank and putting it directly behind my Jeep. I am doing a 1/4 elip and stretching my CJ5 wheelbase to ~110". So with the tank behind and level with my tub, the axle will be somewhere relatively directly below it. (Cut wheel wells, obviously.) I am building a roll cage around it with a tool box behind it and it will all tie into the rest of my roll cage.

J. J.

Application: TJ w/ 1" body lift.

Starting with a Tomken gas tank skid, or equivalent, ditch the factory skid/mount altogether. Trim off the trapezoidal portion from the rear of the Tomken skid and grind off the welded in studs. Ditch the angle brackets that normally bolt to the rear of the frame rails also. Fab up brackets/holes/whatever to strap the tank directly to the Tomken using ratchet straps or the OE straps.

http://pages.prodigy.net/coolmank/pics/cmksjeep/gtl/zipties.jpg

And yes, the zipties are working just fine.

Weld a piece of 2"x2"x30" or so to the rear edge of the Tomken and use that to bolt the skid up to the original gas tank mounting holes in the rear x-member. I welded studs into the x-member holes, drilled through holes in the angle, and then just "nut" the unit up there. Then, shorten the mount at the front of the Tomken.

You'll have to do some figuring as to how much room you have to move the tank up. This will determine exactly how much trimming of the skid you can do. Commonly, you can get 2-3" extra clearance by this method.

If you get really nuts and raise the x-member that's above the tank, you can gain nearly 4" of clearance.

http://pages.prodigy.net/coolmank/pics/cmksjeep/gtl/installed.jpg

cm "do I need to mention that you shouldn't weld near a full tank of gas?" k

Here's a very minor mod for XJ 20-gallon tanks if you want more range - raise the vent tube inside the tank and you can fit almost another 5 gallons inside. You could have expansion problems if you let it sit but if you fill it just before heading out on a long trail ride, that's one less gas can you have to carry.

cm "do I need to mention that you shouldn't weld near a full tank of gas?" k [/B]

A near empty one is even more dangerous - the fumes are VERY explosive while a full tank will burn.
Your rig is fawked either way.

Originally posted by 96C4and91K5


A near empty one is even more dangerous - the fumes are VERY explosive while a full tank will burn.
Your rig is fawked either way.

Yep, I'd rather weld next to a full tank given the choice between the two.. or remove the tank.. or fill it with water. Removals probably the easiest and best bet.. especially with this mod.. since you kinda have to remove it to begin with.

While this may be a newbie type question, here it goes.... what all is involved in pulling the tank? Ive got a CJ tailgate to get put on, and I want to know how much work it is to pull the tank.... Oh.. and anyone in so cal wanna help me cut my bed out, so I can move my tank up?? :)
Scott

Drain it and unbolt the skidplate. Disco the wires and hoses on its way down.

I just raised my gas tank on my scrambler today!!!! I am in the prosess of turning the bed and body into a 2 picer with a wire mesh floor. I run a 2' body lift and am raising the floor on the bed about 1 inch to be able to lift the gas tank 5 inches..... The tank is in now. I just have to build the floor, screw in the fender skins,ect.
Lots of mods just to bob the rear a foot and raise the gas tank 5 inches but it will greatly help keep the tank alive.

Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep
Ok, here's a question for you guys. I have one of those plastic replacement tanks in my Jeep. I'm converting to EFI and need to add a return line. My first thought was to just drill, tap and add a second fitting near the pickup line. I emailed the manufacturer, told them what I was doing and asked if they would sell me another pickup fitting. They told me I couldn't do that and would ruin my tank if I tried. They said the tank was thicker where the pickup was and suggested I put the return in the fuel sender. There is no way to do that without eliminating the sender, and I'm not going to run without a gas guage. The tank is about 1/4" thick everywhere and doesn't look any thicker around the pickup or the sender. Has anyone else tried this? Another concern I have is stock EFI tanks have a baffle around the pickup so the pump doesn't starve. I'm obviously not going to have this and am wondering how much of a problem it will be. Any thoughts?
Jeg's sells a piece for street rods that have gone FI and still want to use the stock tank. Its a piece of pipe with a fitting on it, you cut your fill hose and stick this on and hook your return line to the fitting and your done. But you can make one easy, just get some tubing that will fit in yer hose(the big one below the gas cap) and weld a bung on and there you go!
(i tried to make this easy to understand for everyone, don't mean to sound like I wouldn't think you would understand grandpa)

Originally posted by mike
Drain it and unbolt the skidplate. Disco the wires and hoses on its way down.
Mike, whats the easiest way to drain it? Its pretty friggin full right now LOL...
Oh and thanks for the input!
Scott

Originally posted by 1badjeep

Mike, whats the easiest way to drain it? Its pretty friggin full right now LOL...
Oh and thanks for the input!
Scott

Easiest? Drive it till its empty ;) quickest? Fluid pump into gerry cans. You could also siphon it out I suppose.

Originally posted by 1badjeep

Mike, whats the easiest way to drain it? Its pretty friggin full right now LOL...
Oh and thanks for the input!
Scott

You probably should have taken care of this while we were at johnson valley and you had no gas then. LOL...
As for the how to drain it part, I would try a spoon...:rolleyes: ....no just kidding, how about a hose and a spare gas can? There isn't exactly a drain plug on the tank.

Originally posted by mfg4rox


You probably should have taken care of this while we were at johnson valley and you had no gas then. LOL...
As for the how to drain it part, I would try a spoon...:rolleyes: ....no just kidding, how about a hose and a spare gas can? There isn't exactly a drain plug on the tank.
Yeah it probably would have been better to take care off all that at JV but you know LOL.. I'll probably siphon it out into a couple jerry cans or something... I think Im also going to cut my bed out, move the tank up into the bed, and make a metal covering for it.. one of these days....
Scott

I just completed raising my tank about 2.5 inches or so. I was replacing the tank and scabbing some plates along the rear section of my frame w/ a new rear crossmember. I just cut away part of the cross member that the body mounts attach to, so I could move the tank up against the body (I have a 2" boby lift). Chopped a few inches out of the stock skid plate, modified the way the rear of the skid mounts w/ a BFH, drilled some holes, and bolted it up. My rear D44 is moved back about 2.5 inches and still clears the tank. The tank skid now barely hangs down below my bumper, but is way up above the springs and shackles. I'm :) . Wheelbase is now 100" :cool:

-Jeremy

got any pics of this Jeremy?



- jake

Definitely...more pics please guys :)

Jake,
No pics yet, just got it together sat. My turn around time on pics, is like comparing pony express to e-mail. I still have to shoot pics, get developed, scan, etc. I dont have a red star yet, but I'm sure once I get them scanned, I can e-mail them to Mo, or something like that.
I'll post back here asap, hopefully before the next TOTW.;)

-Jeremy

I've still got the stock ejection seat in the 69 (fuel tank under the drivers seat). I'm in the middle of sticking a tank from a 74 CJ betweent he frame rails in the rear. I had to cut out a couple fo braces that helped supoprt the stock rear bumper. The tank and skid plate shoul done by this weekend. I'll still need to plumb it as a second tank and figure out where I want the fill port mounted.

Jon
:smokin:

So, who from so cal wants to help me cut the bed out of my jeep to move the tank up?? :D
Scott

CMKs version...

Does this really raise the tank more than a kilby, 4xdoctor skid?

I just bought an All Custom Fab skid to replace my Tomken POS. They actually make one for a body lift.

Sure it is $40 dollars more, but hey I am lazy. Besides those jackasses from Tomken can't powder coat for shit (I really don't think they care what customers think anyways.)

The Tomken is strong, dragged it over every rock! I just don't think I would spend $160 to cut it up.


............
http://www.jeepshots.com/tech/gastank.html

SWEET! And yes my wife would freak if I tried that. She's seen what I can do with a 2" cut off wheel.

That is slick. Mount a tool box drawer and then spare and I would set.

Anyone want to buy a cheap scratched up Tomken TJ skid? $40???

i bought a steel full bed security box for a hell of a deal.... it was just sitting around... i decided to put my tank in the box in the bed.... if the whole is drilled in the right location, all lines will reach.... it is now totally outta the way... i will be goin to a fuel cell when i do my other little :rolleyes: mods

I am going to a fuel cell in my cj5. My question is who makes custome cells? I have a fool injected 5.0 and I need some thing with a pump and sending unit but it needs to fit between my fender wells.

Originally posted by mountain bronco
CMKs version...
Does this really raise the tank more than a kilby, 4xdoctor skid?


If you don't mess with the x-member above the tank, probably not. But if you already have a Tomken, it's a cheaper alternative than cashing out for a new Kilby piece.

To go along with my 1" body lift, I also raised that x-member up 1" which yields about another inch that you can move the tank up versus the Kilby setup.

I also didn't want to go the "Nasvik" route as I want to keep the ability to mount my back seat.


The Tomken is strong, dragged it over every rock! I just don't think I would spend $160 to cut it up.


... tis' a good thing I only paid $20 for a used one then.

BTW, ditto on Tomken's powdercoating.

cmk

Originally posted by cmk




I also didn't want to go the "Nasvik" route as I want to keep the ability to mount my back seat.





He could mount a seat. Trust me. It wouldnt take much, at all.

I have found the Tomken ones to not be all that strong. We have mangled a few of them, mostly wiping out the mounts to the crossmember.

Who cares about powder coating? My Jeep is the Krylon King!

Originally posted by mike
He could mount a seat. Trust me. It wouldnt take much, at all.

A buddy of mine put one of those Tuffy drawers under his TJ's rear seat which only raises the seat like 2". But after that, anyone over about 5'5" has a REAL hard time sittin' back there with the top on.

It looks like Paul would surely have to raise the seat more than a few inches to mount it back there. I can understand that it would be easy to mount a seat back there, but realistically, would it be useable? Additionally, you would have to run some sort of heavy duty x-member to bolt the center seat belt ends to.

In no way am I knockin' what Paul did. Personally, I think it's cool as hell. I just think it pretty negates the possibility of ever running a back seat again which is fine for many, just not me.

cmk

He dont have a stock seat (that Im aware of) ;) kinda leaves your options open :D

Back seat??

Isn't that where Paul put his gas tank?:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Bgcj5
I am going to a fuel cell in my cj5. My question is who makes custome cells? I have a fool injected 5.0 and I need some thing with a pump and sending unit but it needs to fit between my fender wells.

go in gen 4x4 and check out the one roggy made, looks killer

im gonna have to address this issue when the time comes in a couple months

hey mo, is there any way to make a TOTW archive?

This past weekend myself and a buddy raised the crossmember and modified a Kilby skid plate.

http://jeep-club.irtech.com/images/bobby/gastank/

Originally posted by Brad


hey mo, is there any way to make a TOTW archive?

So long as they always start with TOTW it's already made, just search for "TOTW" and click the "search titles only box". You might get a few of Chief Yellin's threads but I don't know of any correctly-spelled words that include totw that would clutter up your results.

Originally posted by jeepclub
This past weekend myself and a buddy raised the crossmember and modified a Kilby skid plate.

http://jeep-club.irtech.com/images/bobby/gastank/

It's ok to mention it was me Bobby ;)

It looks very cool indeed.

Phil

So here's a question. Can the stock gas tank lines still be used when the tank is moved up into the tub? Or do you need to extend them to reach the top of the tank?
Scott

Originally posted by 1badjeep
So here's a question. Can the stock gas tank lines still be used when the tank is moved up into the tub? Or do you need to extend them to reach the top of the tank?
Scott

Speaking for TJ's;

Yeah, all of the lines (outlet, return, filler, and vent) fit just fine with the tank raised 1-3". Even the electrical harness fits fine. I might cut an inch from the filler and vent line if I get really bored, but it isn't necessary.

cmk

After bobing the rear of my friends cj-8 we took the stock tank and mounted it as far back towards the tail gate as possible. we used one of natures own holes (rust) and plumbed new lines to the tank. the tank was mounted by welding studs to two peices of 1x1 tubing, bolting them to what was left of the bed, and then mounting the stock straps (inverted). to keep it legel we had to keep the fill neck out side the vehichle. we fabed up a custom plate welded to the cage with a hole cut into it for the stock fill neck on an extended hose found in our pile of spare parts.

i plan on doing the same thing to my project XJ except running the filler neck out through the stock location and fabing a nice neat cover.

Originally posted by cmk


Speaking for TJ's;

Yeah, all of the lines (outlet, return, filler, and vent) fit just fine with the tank raised 1-3". Even the electrical harness fits fine. I might cut an inch from the filler and vent line if I get really bored, but it isn't necessary.

cmk


What he said, we only had to lengthen the sender line (high pressure) when we did nasviks

Mike, thanks, I plan on moving my tank up as high as Navsiks, just as soon as I get the time LOL... And the grinder.. its on its way :)
Scott

does anyone know anything about making your own gas tank? it would be convenient to shape it so it would fit, but im not too sure on how envolved it is. any ideas??

A buddy of mine welded up a tank out of, I think, 3/16" steel sheet and then grafted the opening and retaining ring from an XJ's stock plastic tank so that he could use a standard XJ fuel sending unit.

He coated the inside of the tank with some sort of "tank-cote" that I think is made by the same guys that make POR15. ... just pour in a few cups and roll the tank around to get it everywhere.

cmk

MIKE, ... Who/How did ya have the highpresure fuel line extended? I,ve made a cell and put it in the bed of my TJ. Useing the stock intank fuel pump and all. Vent tubes np, wireing, np, but the highpresure fuel line ? Thanks !:D





:jeep: __(OIIIIIIO)__rOkOn:usa:

Used the fittings off the stock hose on a new high pressure FI line with clamps from the parts store. Easy.

From Rat Patrol

Again, from Rat Patrol

And the last one from Rat Patrol

Thanks Mo.:beer:
I need to get me one of those red stars soon.

-Jeremy

Top

For 69CJ

I just installed a FI 4.3L V-6 into my 62 CJ5 and was interested in getting rid of the under seat tank. I would be interested in what you are doing on moving the tank to the back. Any information or pictures would be greatly appreciated. Here is my e-mail: gstepp@aol.com

thanks

Greg

Originally posted by GregS
For 69CJ

I just installed a FI 4.3L V-6 into my 62 CJ5 and was interested in getting rid of the under seat tank. I would be interested in what you are doing on moving the tank to the back. Any information or pictures would be greatly appreciated. Here is my e-mail: gstepp@aol.com

thanks

Greg

I'm copying the setup Mike did....... check the link. He has pics.

http://members.tripod.com/Boyink/1966_cj5.htm

granted, I have a 2A/M38/something, but I'm planning on mounting a fuel cell right up against the tailgate in back, then integrating my air tanks right next to it and covering the whole damn thing. Granted, I haven't started this project yet, but it seems the best solution for clearance as well as having the comfort of NOT sitting on gas can. I'll post pics......it will probably be a few months at the rate I'm going....

OK difinative answer on 97 and up TJ fuel cell install:

from the fuel cell (bottom) run a high pressure line to Ford F-150 frame mounted fuel pump. Then a high pressure line to Ford Mustang (aftermarket) regulater adjustable 20-90 PSI with return line built in. Then a high pressure line to existing fuel rail. And a return line from regulator to top of fuel tank. Then a line from top of tank to charcoal canister.

the aftermarket regulator has a port on the side for a PSI gage design perssure is 35-37 PSI ... the one i saw is running @42 PSI this also relived the lag in acceloration ... this was done on a 4-cly but i believe pressures are the same for the 6 cyl

For the 97-00? TJ se guys:

There is a way to get an extra 4 gallons out of your "15" gallon tank. It is very similar to the conversion done for the YJ's. I did the mod a year ago and haven't had any problems, so I decided to do a write up.

http://www.gottrail.com/TJ/TJfueltankconversion.html

It will cost about 15 bucks & an afternoon.

Originally posted by redruM
OK difinative answer on 97 and up TJ fuel cell install:

from the fuel cell (bottom) run a high pressure line to Ford F-150 frame mounted fuel pump. Then a high pressure line to Ford Mustang (aftermarket) regulater adjustable 20-90 PSI with return line built in. Then a high pressure line to existing fuel rail. And a return line from regulator to top of fuel tank. Then a line from top of tank to charcoal canister.

the aftermarket regulator has a port on the side for a PSI gage design perssure is 35-37 PSI ... the one i saw is running @42 PSI this also relived the lag in acceloration ... this was done on a 4-cly but i believe pressures are the same for the 6 cyl

Do you have P/N's handy for that pump and regulator or model years for the pump and make for the reg? I'm having problems.

Originally posted by Rat Patrol
I just completed raising my tank about 2.5 inches or so. I was replacing the tank and scabbing some plates along the rear section of my frame w/ a new rear crossmember. I just cut away part of the cross member that the body mounts attach to, so I could move the tank up against the body (I have a 2" boby lift). Chopped a few inches out of the stock skid plate, modified the way the rear of the skid mounts w/ a BFH, drilled some holes, and bolted it up. My rear D44 is moved back about 2.5 inches and still clears the tank. The tank skid now barely hangs down below my bumper, but is way up above the springs and shackles. I'm :) . Wheelbase is now 100" :cool:

-Jeremy

Mee too
http://jeep-club.irtech.com/images/bobby/gastank/

no it wasnt my jeep and the owner didnt have the part #'s

I checked the Kilby site and it stated that their YJ skid could not be lifted due to the crossmember. I have a 2" bodylift and was thinking of lifting the tank that far. Is the crossmember strong enough to have the blocking section ground away in order to lift the tank or is it necessary to replace or reinforce it?

anyone want a free 91 yj tank with the sender and pump in it. it is the plastic tank

Originally posted by Victor
I checked the Kilby site and it stated that their YJ skid could not be lifted due to the crossmember. I have a 2" bodylift and was thinking of lifting the tank that far. Is the crossmember strong enough to have the blocking section ground away in order to lift the tank or is it necessary to replace or reinforce it?

Here is the crossmember you are talking about, it can be trimmed back to get another inch. It can also be cut out entirely and a new crossmember buit as high as you want.

http://jeepwrangler.info/Tech/chassis/images/mini/tj-rearcross1.jpg

I saw a good idea that I'm going to use. Al Dunn at High Country 4x4 made a tank that mounts in the bed like a fuel cell but it has a sump built into it. The tank is about 6" deep except where the sump is is 10". The sump is the only part that goes down through the floor, which means you don't have to move the cross member and it doesn't hang lower than the frame rail.

Originally posted by Lost One
I saw a good idea that I'm going to use. Al Dunn at High Country 4x4 made a tank that mounts in the bed like a fuel cell but it has a sump built into it. The tank is about 6" deep except where the sump is is 10". The sump is the only part that goes down through the floor, which means you don't have to move the cross member and it doesn't hang lower than the frame rail.

got a link to that?

I made my own ;)

looks nice, hey phil how much does your tank hold?

20 gallons

I want one:D
wuts it look like from the back/underneath?
did u relo the filler? your was under the license plate like mine right? that filler hose is the only thing I dont like about it, can that be resolved?

Well I have been giving a lot of thought to my low hanging gas tank this day. I will have my jeep out of commision shortly, doing the engine swap and thought this would be a good time to raise that plastic bomb :nuke: up.

What I had in mind was to build a box in the rear of the bed of the jeep. About the same location as the rear seat is now. Cut a hole for the filler neck so I can use the stock filler location, etc. Then add a cushion type apparatus to the top of the tank, bolt the back half of my original rear seat to the box and voila. I still have my back seat(very important to me) and a gas tank that is out of the way.

What type of materials do you all think would be the best in constructing this box to house the stock gas tank? The rest of it is pretty much given, just need to build the box and start bolting. Would like to have the top of the box removable, to access the tank if needed. Opinions?

Thanks,
Peran

bringing this back up. will a wrangler 19 gal. tank fit in a cj-7 frame? anyone use the j.c.whitney 21.6 gal extended mileage tank for a cj-7? i have a 22 gal cell in my 5 and i just cant see using a 15 gal tank and a bunch of gas cans in my 7:rolleyes:

Since I moved the rear axle back 5" I put the 2nd tank in front of the rear axle just behind the step up to the bed. The pick doesn't show much due to the tank being black but here it is anyway. The tank is a new replacement for a 78-86 CJ and I chose this because it fits between the frame rails and because it uses a 1" filler and 3/4" vent so the hoses were easy to rout.
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/myjeeprear3.jpg

that looks fuctional dean. i had wondered if one would fit til now. any better pics? nice u bolt set-up.:beer:

Here is what I can add. It is a stock 15 gal size, it is up as high as I can get it and as far forward as I can get it. When the rap bar broke the pinion wrapped up enough to hit it a few times so I added a skidplate to that section with some epoxy. here is the only other pik that might help
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/myjeeprear4.jpg

I still sit on the stock 10gal tank so the 15 extra is perfect for me.
The only reason I put the tank in front of the axle was to get the weight more central and not hanging off the rear.

http://www.beast40.com/JeepPictures/j236.jpg

http://www.beast40.com/JeepPictures/j288.jpg



http://www.beast40.com/JeepPictures/j322.jpg

Wow, I think I've seen that before :D :smokin:

anyone know of a cell for demensions something like L30-36" x W10-12" x D6-8"? I'd love to dip about 4-5" under the floor w/ the remainder in the cab of the TJ. I really only want 12 gallons or so.

The closest I've found were West Marine tanks, I'm sure they'd work huh?

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=19949&catalogId=10001&classNum=257&subdeptNum=78&storeNum=6

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=36391&catalogId=10001&classNum=257&subdeptNum=78&storeNum=6

:D

How hard would it be to raise the gas tank and move it as close to the front seats as possible in a TJ?

I hate to pull the rhetorical "search" but I must have seen exactly that at least half a dozen times today when I was searching for different cell options. :D

welcome newbie... :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I am installing a marine tank in the stock location in my CJ-5.It measures 7" high/26" long and 18" wide.I removed the stock rear bumper and welded a 2x3 tube bumper to frame.The tank will sit on a 1" square tube frame that will hang off the bumper and stock rear crossmember.It will sit only 2" lower than the frame at the bumper.I pushed the rear back 6.5".It sits under the tank with plenty of room for compression.I had the tank from a boat I have.So I don't know where you could get one.This one is metal,I know Overton's boat supply sell plastic versions.I don't know if they would hold up under a rig.Cheepin:D

Originally posted by P&T jeeps
anyone know of a cell for demensions something like L30-36" x W10-12" x D6-8"? I'd love to dip about 4-5" under the floor w/ the remainder in the cab of the TJ. I really only want 12 gallons or so.
:D

There is that tank from www.allprooffroad.com now, if you want yo pay for it.

-Bart

thanks, but no thanks. $400 for a cell is a bit ridiculous to me. yea, it might be cool for those who are not creative but the hole in the middle of the tank for the sending unit to kill all storage space is a waste IMO... :D

I didn't read the whole thread, just the first page....

This is about welding on or near gas tanks....Empty the tank, then pump some exhaust from another vehicle into the tank while you do the welding. This will take care of the pesky problem of explosion. My buddy has a welding business, and they do it this way every time. Only had one tank ever give them a problem. I would not sugest welding on a full tank of gas, it might not explde, but it sure will set a blaze pretty easily.

Hope this helps.

Steve

Okay, i was taking out the trac bars my YJ yesterday and i started looking at the gas tank. It seems there is a large area of unused space from where the floor rises up and goes rearward(the riser that the rear bench sits on). i measured and it looks like there would be about a 32x34 area there between the frame rails that might be able to fit a fuel cell. i will eventually be going with a spring over on 2" BDS springs or something similar as well as a d60/14bolt combo. assuming i had no body lift, it looks like i might have room enough for a 6-10 inch deep fuel cell. not sure how much the 14 bolt would compress upon flexing, but being in the middle, the pumpkin shouldnt flex too much. only thing i can think of right now as far as problems would be the top mountings. another might be clearance of an antiwrap bar if i use one. how much clearance would i need on the top of the cell to clear the filler, lines, etc.? it looks like dean did what i want to do , only with a stock tank. i want to get at least 20 gallons in the end. please help if you have input on this. thanks



- Jake


i just figured it, and if it was 30x30x6, i would have about 23 gallons, so after a little displacement, i would still have over 20 gallons, plus it could be a little bigger. so now my question is, if baffles are used, whats the least possible working depth i could use? would 6 inches even work?

btt

since this is BTT. i guess I'll add this writeup i just did.


http://home.earthlink.net/~maxonit/sceep/sceepsholley.htm
:D

sceep, looks like i found a solution to my problem:D . so no i will be measuring for fitment, how much room should i leave between the top of the cell and the floor for hoses, etc.? thanks. btw, what exactly is the last pic of in your write up?

Originally posted by JeeperJake
sceep, looks like i found a solution to my problem:D . so no i will be measuring for fitment, how much room should i leave between the top of the cell and the floor for hoses, etc.? thanks. btw, what exactly is the last pic of in your write up?

for room, i would say no less than about 5" deep.
You can see in the 5th picture the last hose, that has to go to pump output of the tank, comes off the top of the last pickup. I would say a minimum of 5" of depth is required to keep the hose free from kinking. the last pic is the veiw thru the top of my cell lookin at the front inside of the tank, at the last pickup, and tank output. the hoses are wired together to keep that pickup where it is.

Glad my writeup was usefull. They are working great! :D

Anyone ever try using this RCI cell under the tub where the stock tank was? With some mods to the crossmenber and one of the body mounts it could tuck up there with the bottom flush with the rear crossmember.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/rci-2172a_cp.jpg

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=RCI&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp

Anyone ever try using this RCI cell under the tub where the stock tank was? With some mods to the crossmenber and one of the body mounts it could tuck up there with the bottom flush with the rear crossmember.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/rci-2172a_cp.jpg

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=RCI&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp

Did you go for it????

It seems like a good plan, especially the 7" part.

Here is what I did:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res76oi0/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/fuelcell2.jpg.w300h225.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/res76oi0/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/fuelcell.jpg.w560h420.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/res76oi0/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/fuelcellfitting1.jpg.w560h420.jpg

Did you go for it????

It seems like a good plan, especially the 7" part.


No, the more we talked about it, we thought there would be fuel starvation problems unless the tank was close to full.

I am using the stock tank, but am modifying the rear cross member and a bit of the tub to move the tank back and up enough to clear rear 60 that is moved back about 3". I don't think the 60 will even touch the skid when done.

No, the more we talked about it, we thought there would be fuel starvation problems unless the tank was close to full.

I am using the stock tank, but am modifying the rear cross member and a bit of the tub to move the tank back and up enough to clear rear 60 that is moved back about 3". I don't think the 60 will even touch the skid when done.

Hmm...I never thought of that.

I would really like to tuck a fuel cell under the floor pan, so as not to lose dog room in the back.

Can anyone point me to design guidelines for fuel systems.

Here are some pictures of the almost completed 180 tank spin.

What i wanted was a cheap way of making room for some rear wheelbase stretch without putting a fuel cell in the back. It was not an option with my kids in the backseat.

I spent hours looking at different tanks at the junk yard to see if there was something i could put in the stock location, that was just smaller, i would have been happy with 15 gallons. I had all but given up and was going to just drop the coin on the BTF tank, when i figured i would try moving the stock tank back.

The end result leaves enough room for a 4 1/2" rear stretch i believe. This pic isn't the greatest, but you can clearly see i still have a couple of inches left. I am running a rear 60 on waggy springs with a 1" offset perch.
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/951_348.ts1142720889796.jpg
I will post some pics without the tank in later, but basically the stock tank is spun around 180 deg and the rear cross member is cut out until it clears it. The tub also needs to be cut under the tail gate. I have 3" angle that i have used for rear crossmember for a while, i cut into that about 1"

I rotated the tank because when i tried to just move it back without rotating it, the tank filler openings on the tank line up with the very back of the tub and are not accessible. When you rotate it, they end up on the other side and with a 1" body lift, there is room to sneak the hoses between the tub and frame. I will use a TJ filler opening on the passenger side.
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/950_348.ts1142720889609.jpg

There were some benefits to rotating the tank. First the exhaust cutout is now on the drivers side, where i planned to run my exhaust, it should make for a nice clean exit.http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/954_348.ts1142720890421.jpg

and the original front of the tank is not as wide, meaning, when it is rotated there is less to get hung up on at the furthest point out.

The stock sender can also be rotated 180 deg to keep the fittings pointed to the correct side, all that needs to be done is the redrilling of 2 holes on the sender and plate. While the stock tank could have been modified to work, i had access to a press brake and bent up a new one from 3/16" with 1/8" sides.

The crossmember above the axle needs to be clearanced a little to make for the corners of the tank.
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/956_348.ts1142720890843.jpg
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/957_348.ts1142720891046.jpg
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/959_348.ts1142720891500.jpg
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/960_348.ts1142720891718.jpg

I bent up a piece of 1/8" to cover where the tank sticks out of the body.
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/958_348.ts1142720891250.jpg

Late is better then never I guess...

Here is some relative stuff I'll add for historical value.


Follow Sceep as he installs a Holley Multipoint fuel pickup (http://bigredheep.com/forumnews-id-3932.html)
http://www.bigredheep.com/collin/images/articles/holly_multipoint_fuel_pickup/fuel_pickup_1.JPG


1997 - ~2001~ TJ gas tank capacity mod. (http://bigredheep.com/forumnews-id-3934.html)
http://bigredheep.com/collin/images/content/TJ_gastank_mod/TJ_gastank_retainingring.jpg

Heres a pic of my pos with a 17 gal rci right behind the rear seat thanks to the kids i still need the seat or i would have just brought the old one up in the body

http://www.t-mobilepictures.com/photos/photo07/a2/41/9c1b80185c37.jpg?_rh=2wctcmy5t13fn61p5z7b9dmob

Here are some pictures of the almost completed 180 tank spin.

What i wanted was a cheap way of making room for some rear wheelbase stretch without putting a fuel cell in the back. It was not an option with my kids in the backseat.

I spent hours looking at different tanks at the junk yard to see if there was something i could put in the stock location, that was just smaller, i would have been happy with 15 gallons. I had all but given up and was going to just drop the coin on the BTF tank, when i figured i would try moving the stock tank back.

The end result leaves enough room for a 4 1/2" rear stretch i believe. This pic isn't the greatest, but you can clearly see i still have a couple of inches left. I am running a rear 60 on waggy springs with a 1" offset perch.
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/951_348.ts1142720889796.jpg
I will post some pics without the tank in later, but basically the stock tank is spun around 180 deg and the rear cross member is cut out until it clears it. The tub also needs to be cut under the tail gate. I have 3" angle that i have used for rear crossmember for a while, i cut into that about 1"

I rotated the tank because when i tried to just move it back without rotating it, the tank filler openings on the tank line up with the very back of the tub and are not accessible. When you rotate it, they end up on the other side and with a 1" body lift, there is room to sneak the hoses between the tub and frame. I will use a TJ filler opening on the passenger side.
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/950_348.ts1142720889609.jpg

There were some benefits to rotating the tank. First the exhaust cutout is now on the drivers side, where i planned to run my exhaust, it should make for a nice clean exit.http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/954_348.ts1142720890421.jpg

and the original front of the tank is not as wide, meaning, when it is rotated there is less to get hung up on at the furthest point out.

The stock sender can also be rotated 180 deg to keep the fittings pointed to the correct side, all that needs to be done is the redrilling of 2 holes on the sender and plate. While the stock tank could have been modified to work, i had access to a press brake and bent up a new one from 3/16" with 1/8" sides.

The crossmember above the axle needs to be clearanced a little to make for the corners of the tank.
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/956_348.ts1142720890843.jpg
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/957_348.ts1142720891046.jpg
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/959_348.ts1142720891500.jpg
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/960_348.ts1142720891718.jpg

I bent up a piece of 1/8" to cover where the tank sticks out of the body.
http://ferrari.photosite.com/~photos/tn/958_348.ts1142720891250.jpg

Nice thinking...the 180 degree flip thing. Great info. It looks like your rear bumper hangs out there a bit, or maybe it is just the pic. I was wondering if it is different than the typical bumper and if that would change anything. I have to make a rear bumper anyway.

OK - I finally got the fuel cell in my YJ. I managed to squeeze it in ahead of the rear axle.

I used the RCI 7x17x30 17 gal tank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/aston27/cellinstalledsm.jpg

I am going to order an RCI 19 Gallon on order from Summit for my 95 YJ 4.0. Is there anything else I should get from them to make this a cleaner install?

Thanks Troy

I am going to order an RCI 19 Gallon on order from Summit for my 95 YJ 4.0. Is there anything else I should get from them to make this a cleaner install?

Thanks Troy

Hmm...where to start :flipoff2:

The RCI comes with 8AN male fittings for supply, return and vent. You will need fittings for those. I chose 90 deg full flow elbows. The simplest way to plumb is to get 8AN to 6AN adapters and 6AN hose barbs. Then run 3/8 rubber hose all the way to the fuel rail and back.

The vent is a PITA. Depending on the size/shape of your cell and where you mount it. The best way is to hook up the vent to the recirc canister and see what happens. If you have fuel flooding out of the canister after a few days you will need something more elaborate. :smokin:

Are you going to use the stock pump? I think it is a good option. It may be a PITA to cut a hole in the cell but it will side-step lots of other SNAFUs.

And another thing :shaking: Take the fill plate off and look inside, my cell was full of aluminum shavings :eek:

ROLDIT....where did you mount the filler?

Do you have a pic of the tank installed I could see. I was planning on using the stock pump. A guy here is going to get my existing stuff transfered over to the fuel cell.

ROLDIT....where did you mount the filler?

Between the DS door and the wheel well.

I had my local 'zorst guy bend me up a filler neck and I fabricated the flange. It looks great, initially it would puke fuel all over the place during filling. Obviously the cell vent was not venting fast enough. I added another vent from the fill plate to the top of the fill neck. No more fuel spils.

I'll post a pic, maybe :)

Do you have a pic of the tank installed I could see. I was planning on using the stock pump. A guy here is going to get my existing stuff transfered over to the fuel cell.

Scroll down :shaking: :D

This thread also has several pics of cells behind the seat and a stock pump install.

ROLDIT....where did you mount the filler?

Here's the fill flange...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/aston27/fn1.jpg

and the plumbing on the inside...in progress

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/aston27/fn2.jpg

Roldit....

Any updated pics of the plumbing?

err...nope, but i'll work on it. I didn't think anybody read my crap :D

In the end I abandoned the RCI vent altogether - I capped it off.

I have a fill vent 1/2" and a running vent 1/8".

I have accumulated approx 12 runs from 3-4.5 in very hot conditions and everything has performed OK.

I'll get pics.

Thanks. I'm trying to figure the best way to vent mine. I gotta be able to keep the hard top, so just running a tube up the cage is out of the question.

OK

fill vent: 1/2" from top of tank to top of fill neck. Only a vent when the filler cap is removed. Allows fumes and raw gas to escape quickly with the rush of fuel from a gas station pump. The raw gas drains down the fill neck.

Running vent: 1/8" from top of filler neck to charcoal canister. You need to place this vent tube where you think you can vent off fumes without picking up raw gas. Allows fumes to vent off slowly, at any attitude or fuel level.

With this setup I have no detectable fuel fumes ever.

Lots of great tech:D

Anyone have any updates?

Awesome tech, are there any more updates?

Awesome tech, are there any more updates?


What do you want to know??!?

I abandoned the fuel scheme I describe below :homer: but it's a long story.

Here's the 2nd design. No issues yeeeeah.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/aston27/T2017.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/aston27/T2032.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/aston27/christank3.jpg

Ok, now that we are suffiently interested...spill the beans on this new version.

OK, you did ask :D

First try:

Good news:
Scavenging, the pump could pick up fuel at crazy angles with very little in the tank.

Bad news:
When the system got very hot (105 ambient, 120 fuel) the fuel pressure would just go away and the pump would cavitate.

Contributing factors:
I wanted the tank to fit under the floor, ahead of the rear axle in the space bounded by the frame rails, the cross member and the floor. I selected an RCI tank that fitted almost perfectly: 17 x 30 x 7. This tank has a large area but is very shallow.

I designed a dual pick up system that would slide forwards and backwards and had valves that would close when they tried to draw air. It worked superbly: I could continue to pull fuel with very little in the tank at crazy angles, but it caused a restriction at the inlet of the pump which resulted in a pressure drop.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/aston27/fuelcellsm-1.jpg

Also the pump flow rate was too high which resulted in excess fuel being returned to the tank. This fuel had been heated by the engine and carried this heat back to the tank.

Hot fuel + pressure drop = cavitation

SO I needed a tank with a better shape for scavenging fuel, a pump with a lower flow rate and no inlet restrictions to the pump.

Second try:

I spoke to the folks at fuelsafe.com and they suggested I use a collector. A collector is a tank within the tank that has an ideal shape for fuel pick up. The collector is supplied with fuel from the main tank, making use of the fact that the fuel sloshes around. The collector has one-way ball valves that allow the fuel in, as it sloshes around the tank, but it gets trapped and keeps a constant supply of fuel to the pump. There is now no need for any pick-up plumbing, the pump is simply suspended in the collector with the inlet close to the bottom.

Tank cross section, collector at the bottom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/aston27/christank3.jpg

Also, given the fact that we spend so much time at odd angles, I wanted to make sure the fuel would slosh into the collector even when the actual fuel level was getting low. So, I shaped the underside of the tank to direct the fuel to the center/rear where the collector would be mounted.

The collector for real (note brass one way valves and return fitting)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/aston27/T2003.jpg

I located a take-off plate directly over the collector and welded the pump mounting bracket to it. The pump can be assembled out of the tank and lowered into place. This is so much better than messing around with wrenches inside the tank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/aston27/T2001.jpg

Sounds great, but I cannot see the pictures for some reason...I think my work filter is stopping them...I will have to wait for home computer... how long have you been running this version?

Sounds great, but I cannot see the pictures for some reason...I think my work filter is stopping them...I will have to wait for home computer... how long have you been running this version?

Over a year. Mostly in hotter climates S AZ desert and harder trails 4.5ish.