Does anyone have a picture of the 203 side of the doubler? Investigating whether or not I want to go this route or use a Klune-V.
TIA

Pic from here: http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/doubler.htm

http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/images/assemGEN2-5.JPG

or

http://www.wagonermachine.com/transfer_case_adapters.htm

http://www.wagonermachine.com/adapter2.jpg

Thanks, Matt. I have been there and seen that. What I would like to see is what it looks like without the 203 mated to it. Like the picture of the doubler showing the 205 mounting surface.

I have a Ford 205 in the garage but have not taken the tranny adapter part off yet. It's where the shift levers bolt on. If a pic of that would help you I can take it apart and snap one. Let me know.

Just to clarify you need a pic of what is behind the black plate in this Ford 205 pic correct?

http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/images/SWDoubler.jpg

Is the output pattern of the reduction unit on all 203s the same? Im gonna DIY a doubler, using a dodge 203. Right now I have a GM 203 in the garage...can I use the GM one as a template for the dodge unit?

I'm pretty sure that at least one hole location is different between the GM and Dodge 203 reduction boxes.

I've got AutoCAD and TIFF-format files of the bolt hole locations for the GM reduction box. Both sides, with coordinates taken from a CMM. PM me or drop me a line at chrisw@bc4x4.com if you want a copy.

Chris (did a DIY 203-D20 doubler)

chris,
I have your drawing. Did you have to put any type of a seal on that side? In the picture on Off-road Design's web page of the adapter it shows the 205 mounting side, but not the 203 side. In the picture it shows a seal do you know where that seal goes?

Originally posted by MattS
Just to clarify you need a pic of what is behind the black plate in this Ford 205 pic correct?

http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/images/SWDoubler.jpg

I could be wrong, but that looks like a TH350 Adapter + the 203 range box assembled to a Ford 205... the 203 is clocked flat in that pic too, he rotates them almost 90 degrees to do that. Notice the 203 shifter is on top of the case. Whatever it may be, that first adapter is not a Ford.

good eye fullsize you called that correctly.

The adapter in that pic is the factory GM 203 adapter, AFAIK. It's nice and skinny, and has skidplate mounts built in. Doesn't look like there's much material to work with, for changing the bolt pattern on the tranny side though.

As far as seals go, I've got one installed in my NP203-D20 adapter, to stop the two t-cases from sharing gear oil. I didn't bother putting one between the 203 and NP435, since the 203 has an input seal already.

If your second t-case has an input seal, I wouldn't bother putting one in that adapter either. The 203 will puke some fluid into the inside of the adapter, but so what?

Here's a photo of my 203-D20 adapter, showing the 203 side:
http://www.bc4x4.com/chrisw/projects/powertrain/np203c.jpg

You can (barely) see the seal in the bore hole. It's been pressed in from the other side.

Chris

Thanks Chris. I see your seal on the other side of your adapter plate. I will probably do the same as the original t-case adapters have a similar seal set up.

So could someone sum up what the differences are between a Dodge and GM 203? I had never entertained the thought of using a Dodge 203 before. I guess I'm confused.

cwate I e-mailed you...

The Dodge and Chevy cases have different spline counts on their inputs; Dodge is in the high 20s, and I think GM is 10 (coarse). The GM cases are relatively rare, and if you do find one if may have worn input splines.

I think one or two of the bolt holes on the input face of the 203 is different between GM and Dodge, as well. Most of them are in the same place, though.

Chris :jeep:

Hey cwate, I sent you an email. I would be VERY interested in the acad files! My e-mail is colech@wwc.edu. Thanks for answering my questions too! If you are interested I have a schematics for some bealocks I just designed and made. E-mail me if you're interested at either colech@wwc.edu or charleycoleman@hotmail.com

Since you are trying to decide btwn this setup and a Klune-V, you should know that the Klune will be a few inches shorter overall, as the "adapter" necessary between a klune and the 205 is just a 1" spacer to clear the shifter for the klune. This si if you use a later GM205, or ford 205. the earlier chgevy205 with the "keyhole" pattern has an adapter but it is also only 1" thick. The Klune itself is also a little shorter than a 203 range box, maybe 1" or so.

if drivetrain length is a concern, then you may want to know this...

does the 203 bolt up to a t-18, and does this system need the adapter in front of my 205, this is all new to me I do not understand any of it, but I know I need lower gearing. SO the two of these units together will be slightly longer than my 205 with adapter to t-18 ? Or what?

There's probably a factory adapter that mates the 203 to the T18, but it's likely a long cast jobbie, like 6-7" long.

If that's the case, then you'll want to make/buy a custom plate adapter that does the job, to keep the total length down, assuming this is for your YJ.

What does your T18/NP205 adapter look like? How long is it, roughly? My 203 box plus both adapters is around 10.5" long.

Chris

Originally posted by cwate
There's probably a factory adapter that mates the 203 to the T18, but it's likely a long cast jobbie, like 6-7" long.


If that's the case, then you'll want to make/buy a custom plate adapter that does the job, to keep the total length down, assuming this is for your YJ.

What does your T18/NP205 adapter look like? How long is it, roughly? My 203 box plus both adapters is around 10.5" long.

Chris

it is just the factory adapter about 6-8 inches, it is were all the shifters mount to. Does the 203 take the place of this?

Originally posted by cwate
The Dodge and Chevy cases have different spline counts on their inputs; Dodge is in the high 20s, and I think GM is 10 (coarse). The GM cases are relatively rare, and if you do find one if may have worn input splines.


The 10 spline male GM 203s were used only in '73 & '74, behind SM 465s, and are somewhat rare (but still cheap, as they are highly undesireable unless doing a setup like this). The ones used behind the TH 350s ('73-'79, very common, and cheap) are 27 spline male, and the ones used behind the TH400s (harder to find, and what you use for the newer ORD Doubler kits) are a 32 spline female input.

Pete

The 10 spline male GM 203s were used only in '73 & '74, behind SM 465s, and are somewhat rare (but still cheap, as they are highly undesireable unless doing a setup like this). The ones used behind the TH 350s ('73-'79, very common, and cheap) are 27 spline male, and the ones used behind the TH400s (harder to find, and what you use for the newer ORD Doubler kits) are a 32 spline female input.



you do NOT require a 203 from a t400 to do a doubler(unless you have a t400).
you require a 203 that matches your tranny.

this i a picture of the adaptor i make to mount a chevy 203 to a bronco dana 20, i don't know if you can see anything different about the bolt pattern or not......

Originally posted by mj




you do NOT require a 203 from a t400 to do a doubler(unless you have a t400).
you require a 203 that matches your tranny.

Holy brainfart, Batman! :eek: Duh, you're right. :flipoff2:

I guess I was thinking 205 and writing about 203s, what I should have said is that you need a 203 that mates w/your trans, and 205 from a TH400 (earlier short-input version).

Pete

it is just the factory adapter about 6-8 inches, it is were all the shifters mount to. Does the 203 take the place of this?

Basically, yes. Of course the NP203 adaptor needs to be customized to work with the T18 rear bolt pattern, and the whole setup is 4-6" longer than your adapter, so make sure you've got the room.

Your shifter mounts will also have to be relocated.

Chris

Originally posted by rockbound


it is just the factory adapter about 6-8 inches, it is were all the shifters mount to. Does the 203 take the place of this?





if this is a ford t-18 the ford 203 bolts to the same adapter as the 205 does, as well as the BW 1356, and almost all other ford transfer cases...

thanks!