Help with bender choice

[greenblaze]

Yes I have tried to read all the past posts, but would like some last minute input from you guys. I'm going to stick with the Pro tools bender. I have a 404 Unimog that I want to build a roll cage for the front and back, I will be using 120 wall D.O.M for the main cage. The Pro tools guy sounded like he was leaning towards their model 200, which surprised me. The guy at RockBuggey, nice guy to talk to and lots of information, leaned toward the 105 as being the most versatile and can be upgraded later. Another guy I spoke with, was steering me away from the One Shot. Money is some concern, right now, I'm just trying to get my own project done. Maybe later on when the Mog body, engine, and trans give out(probably won't happen!) I will go with a full cage setup and just keep the axles.
Thanks for any other input.
Steve

[82yotacrawler]

if i were you i would go with thte JD2 Model 3... the dies are thicker and the arms are pretty damn beefy..... The Model 3 dies are a bit more but they are way beefier than pro tools dies.....

[dirtytoy]

I have a the 105 and I love it, just get that not the one shot, they are not as good, I have heard they kink the tube somtimes

[69CJ]

i have the hd105 as well from a pirate 4x4 vendor - good deal & I love it. However, at this point, i'd like to convert it to hydro - just don't know enough on how to pull it off. I'd rather buy the necessary components separately and build it up rather than buying a conversion kit.

i'm space challenged, so I'd much prefer my bender on wheels as opposed to bolted to the floor.

[maddog]

If you really want to do some serious tube fabrication this one is in the top of the line. May hurt the pocket book a bit but well worth the investment. The web site is:

http://www.vansantent.com/model_4_bender.htm

The Model 4 Tube and Pipe Bender bends up to 2" Schedule 40 Pipe, 2-1/2" outside diameter round tubing, solid hot rolled steel to 1-1/2" (38 mm) diameter, flats up to 3" (75 mm) wide x 3/4" (18 mm) thick hot rolled steel. It weighs 170 lbs. with the hydraulic cylinder. All links and frame are precision CNC machined from 3/4" and 1" thick steel. All pins are high strength steel.
Painstakingly designed to last years in a hard working fabrication shop. The hydraulic cylinder for instance, swivels in a solid CNC machined steel block that pivots exactly at the cylinder's center, thereby preventing side loads on the cylinder's bearings and seals. The pusher block employs a swiveling bronze wear block to eliminate cylinder side loading.
The Model 4 employs a 10 ton single acting spring return cylinder with a stroke of 14". It will bend 90 degrees in less than two complete strokes and 180 bends typically require only three strokes.

[Devil Dog]

this is a good thread... i dont have a lot of time.. and my internet is quite slow to read all those past post.. but i will be in the market here shortly for a bender... i would like something that i can do cage work with... and ill be doing more than just mine... probably light industrial duty.. if you want to call it that.. but i plan on using this thing almost weekly.. doing god knows what... but i dont want to give my left testicle for it.. probably something under 2-3k.... would really like it to be under 2k... but if it was quite good... i could go higher.. i have been looking at the new pro bender hd.. that looks quite stout...

but i would love to hear how you the owners like yours.. ease of use.. strength of it... any problems.. anyone using the bendtech software? is it worth it...

i would like hydro.. and i could convert one on my own.. so.. its not a requirement that it comes with it.. as long as you could upgrade it later.. which im sure most of these you can.. atleast the few that i have looked at..

thank you

[XJGPN2]

I have used both the JD2 model 3 and the JD2 model 4... The model 4 is WAY better than the three... but how does it compare to the equivalent Pro-Tools Models? i.e. Model 105SB ( SUPER BENDER ):
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339389

or

Pro-Tools Model 400 Hydraulic Bender: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290139

[maddog]

I have used both the JD2 model 3 and the JD2 model 4... The model 4 is WAY better than the three... but how does it compare to the equivalent Pro-Tools Models? i.e. Model 105SB ( SUPER BENDER ):
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339389

or

Pro-Tools Model 400 Hydraulic Bender: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290139

Don't know. Since you'll have time behind the two I guess you're the one to answer your own question. So let us know how they compare.

[Devil Dog]

ya.. i would like to see some non-biased testing of all of these benders for us home mechs... not just one vs another.. but all of them.. .and give a review of them.....

thanks for the comments on the model 3 and 4.. thats been more than what i have found in the last couple of days.. everyone says that whatever bender they have is great... but thats been one of the few that was.. this one is better than this one..

now... may i ask why? what did you like better about the model 4?

[maddog]

My Model-4 VanSantent is not the same bender as the PT-400. I looked at both before I purchased. Both have good qualities and compare fairly close to each other. My decision was more on a visual of beefiness and I know some Buds that has bought from Van Sant and they are well pleased with customer service.

[XJGPN2]

now... may i ask why? what did you like better about the model 4?

Well, Right off the bat, the model 4 I have used was hydraulic, and the model 3 was manual... so that alone is huge... but honestly, the really big part about the model 4 is just it's size... The degree ring is just laid out so much better... between the hydraulic control and the very easily read and easily repeated use of the degree ring it is so much easier to use than the model 3 where I felt that I was just struggling to make things happen. With the Model 3, setting it up is a process... bending the tube is a process.. making sure everything is level is a process... making sure you bent it to the correct degree is a process... With the model 4 and using bendtech software the whole bending process was pretty much mindless... we just had to concentrate on what we wanted the finished product to look like. It's really hard to describe... but the model 4 is just more of a finished product... the model 3 feels like your using something you jury rigged to get the job done.

[fj40guy]

ya.. i would like to see some non-biased testing of all of these benders for us home mechs... not just one vs another.. but all of them.. .and give a review of them.....

Devil Dog,

When are you getting back stateside? I have my Model 4 for sale, you're welcome to stop by for a beer, grab a stick of 2" 0.120" wall and give a try. :D

Tom :usa:

[Tfab]

Devil Dog,

When are you getting back stateside? I have my Model 4 for sale, you're welcome to stop by for a beer, grab a stick of 2" 0.120" wall and give a try. :D

Tom :usa:

How many dies do you have.

[maddog]

Well, Right off the bat, the model 4 I have used was hydraulic, and the model 3 was manual... so that alone is huge... but honestly, the really big part about the model 4 is just it's size... The degree ring is just laid out so much better... between the hydraulic control and the very easily read and easily repeated use of the degree ring it is so much easier to use than the model 3 where I felt that I was just struggling to make things happen. With the Model 3, setting it up is a process... bending the tube is a process.. making sure everything is level is a process... making sure you bent it to the correct degree is a process... With the model 4 and using bendtech software the whole bending process was pretty much mindless... we just had to concentrate on what we wanted the finished product to look like. It's really hard to describe... but the model 4 is just more of a finished product... the model 3 feels like your using something you jury rigged to get the job done.

Amen!!!

[greenblaze]

Here's what I came up with. I'm going to get the 105 and four die sets and just plan on using it non-hydraulic. I think anyone looking to use it for their own use, and for a couple of favors for a buddy, it will work fine. I'm mainly wanting to get a full cage built for my mog. I had bought a brand new JD model 4, awhile back and bent two pieces of 2" 120 wall D.O.M tubing. It was definately much slower than I had thought it would be. It was making some straining noises too. A week after I bought it we had to move so I sold it because I didn't know when I would have the space or time to use it again. I thought those hydraulics would just make things wiz right along. These companies are trying to sell us a low priced hydraulic benders and it really takes more of an industrial type of machine. The 10 ton and 10,000PSI cylinders and pumps are just not enough, a guy needs to move up to a $3000 and up priced machine. so my thought is, it can't hurt to have a simple 105 bender non-hydraulic and non-electric at an inexpensive price that bends tubing well with manual labor. Then, if things are going well and you're needs require a better machine, buy a professional unit.
Thanks for all of your input.
Steve

[Devil Dog]

nice bender you have there.... and i wish i could take you up on your offer... but i dont get stateside until march of 2006...

[Junk Driver]

Best advice I can give.... find out what people in your area have as far as benders go... maybe start a exchange program. Dies are not cheap but if you have a surplus of choices, I dunno I like the idea. Calgary kinda has a start but not many people with benders yet.

[Devil Dog]

uh... where i live.. no one has a bender... except for my work.. and its huge... but hard to bring stuff in and out that large at work... :D

[lilscorpion]

Here's some good info - I've had both the One Shot and the Pro105:

When I bought my first one, ProTools guy told me I'd like the One Shot better so that's what I ordered.

About the time stingers became the rage (dunno why) someone wanted me to make one but I couldn't bend beyond 110* on the One Shot...I cursed Pro-tools up and down for making a bender that couldn't bend 180.

I ordered a Pro105...because I absolutely had to bend 180's and I hated that I couldn't. I figured I could use it manually to save money. I don't care what anyone tells you, you can't get repeatability or accuracy manually and if you have to do more than a couple of bends, it gets old quickly. For the record I know a guy that makes his living with a manual bender but I think it sucks.

I promptly order the hydro conversion.

I bent some shock hoops, a few stingers, and did some cool bends for various cages (all needing greater than 110*).

Here's how it all played out>>

The pro 105 just sits there unused. It's a PITA to reset the pin twice to get a 45* bend. THe tube slips when you reset the pin so your accuracy isn't as great - because the tension is released. The dual arm setup is RETARDED. There's way too much going on so it's more difficult to set the tube in the starting position, change dies, etc. It's more difficult to bend up stuff yourself.

The one shot I use all the time. I built a full tube chassis, many cages, tube fenders..you name it. It's easy to use by yourself, very easy to line up tubing in (where you want the bend to start), you don't have to reset the pin 0 - 110*. Getting two bends in the same plane is much less complicated too. It's far easier to put a small amount of tension on the tube in this bender than the 105 (because the follow bar is 12" long). It didn't take me long to get over the +110* degree bends and I've learned to design tube work around them - not like they're ever really needed (except shock hoops but you can still do something else).

Matt

[greenblaze]

Hi Matt, thanks for your input on the benders. have you bent very much 2" 120 D.O.M. or molly tubing with your oneshot? does it handle it well or is it straining?.
Thanks, Steve.

[Foxfab]

I think me and rocklogic are the only ones who use a one shot. I like it and its the cheapest way to get into a hydro bender.

[XJGPN2]

Great info on the One-Shot... anybody with any experience with either the Pro-Tools 105SB or Model 400? I don't even see the Model 400 on their website any more (which I find strange because it only popped up on the website a few months ago). My only real complaint with the JD2 Model 4 is the fact that the bracket that attaches to the end of the hydraulic ram and clips into the ratchet/circular piece (sorry for my very non-technical description there) only holds on in single shear and it kinda twists a bit when bending... It never caused any problems when I used it, and I'm sure it won't ever be a problem.. just didn't seem like the greatest attachment designed... but other than that I find little that could be done to really improve it. I never noticed any problem with straining... but then again I was comparing it to the manual model 3 where there was a decent amount of straining to bend tubing :-)

[Devil Dog]

awesome feedback Matt... thats what i am talking about... tell me what you like.. and dont like... what have you found helpful... easy... or whatever... thats what i want to hear... guess ill have to go back and look at this one shot a little more... i gave it the once over... but for the price.. i thought it would be kinda cheesey... and i havent heard anything about it either.. till now... thanks again..