You can read all you want every magazine has an opinion on this. I wanted some quality opinions on the subject, which diesel do you think pulss better, gets more mileage???
This truck will have to be my daily driver also, 30k on a truck....
Thanks any info will be appreciated.....
Let me know what you pull too if you have on, ring and pinion too....

love the cummins, mine is older (96) came back from bc over the rockies hauling a camper (I was 300lbs over gvw) only had to slow down on the large grades (did I mention I was also towing a loaded utility trailer) the new 24 valve must be awsome, as a bonus tst makes kits for another 50% tourque cheap.
I've never driven a powerstroke but I know a few people who have had trouble with them.
in all honesty I imagine it comes down to personal preference.

from experience I like the cummins for several reasons. The powerstroke will run rings around it, but thats it. The cummins is built for longgevity, vertical 6 cyl. just like the road tractor = less thrust waer on the cyl. . Dodge has the better tranny in the nv4500 something that you can rebuild easy. The dodge also has a better rear axle ( dana 80), you also get a 60 front (30 spl.) rather that a dana 50 in srw's. The dodge has less frame flex than the ford. :smokin:

You cant go wrong with either. They are both great trucks. I went with a PSD. :D

Definately the Cummins!

From what I have seen, the Cummins consistently blow the PSD out of the water on TRUE mileage (not "guesstimated").

Too bad there are not crew cab Dodges around to buy slightly used (the new ones are WAY out of my price range).

So until you can buy used crew cab Dodges w/ the Cummins for a reasonable price like used PSD crew cabs - the CUmmins is NOT something I will get to own...

God I wish I still had my dodge! I loved that thing, I never had any trouble towing my jeep anywhere. It pulled every hill and mountain no sweat in the highest gear. I had 4:11 gears and also the gearvendors overdrive, I was getting aroun 22mpg around town and about 18-19 towing. When we went to big dogs Lee went through a whole tank of gas in his ford (not power stroke, gasoline) from monroeville to breezewood, I used 6 dollars to top off.

Hell after bumble bee tuna's bachelor party when I had steffey's jeep on the trailer I set the cruise control on 90 and went 90 from newstanton to monroeville, no sweat!

I WILL DEFINATLY BUY ANOTHER CUMMINS AFTER I FINISH SCHOOL!

my 2 cents!

I have a 98 Dodge Dually 4x4. I love it and blow my friends 95 Ford PSD on gas mileage. I just got back from Las Cruces and got 18.6 miles per gallon on the highway with a light load. I think I get about 15 miles per gallon pulling a steel bed car hauler trailer and jeep.

depends if you want a ford or a dodge. if you want a dodge i suggest you get the cummings. it would be a real PITA to try and put a PSD in your dodge. :flipoff2: bottom line is i don't thimk it really matters. they are both great motors.

I love my ford, it's a 93, so it's the mechanical IDI motor, not the stroke, but it gets a calculated 18-20 empty, and gets 13-14 highway with my gooseneck behind it (28' deck, 4000 lb empty, and usually loaded with two trucks, bringing it to 14,000-16,000 lbs of trailer, and the combined weight at 21,000-23,000 lbs. I can tell it's working, since it drops down to about 45-50 pulling 50 and icehouse heading for the rubicon, but even in the hills there it doesn't drop below 10 MPG calculated over the tank...the new intercooled strokes are supposed to get better mileage, and more power too...I know I'm shopping for a newer f350 to replace mine with right now. As for trannies I know of a lot more probelems with the NV 4500 or 5600 than the ZF 5 or 6 speeds

Originally posted by CrazyHorse
As for trannies I know of a lot more probelems with the NV 4500 or 5600 than the ZF 5 or 6 speeds

Ditto. Not really THAT many problems with the NV5600, but more than with the ZF6. And the '02 Fords get a 60 front even in the SRW & F250. Both engines are plenty durable over the long haul, MIGHT be an advantage to the Cummins over the EXTREME long haul (200k+). But, Ford offers a true crewcab (if that matters to ya). Tough choice, guess that's why I said screw 'em both & bought a GMC :D

TEX

What about the GM Duramax?

It all depends on what you like, are you a big ass titty man, or a big black ass man...... I am a big black ass man I went with a 96 Powerstroke it fucking rocks i have a landscaping company so the truck see alot of abuse daily abuse and I have never had a problem yet nor my other diesel which is a 89 old school shit but it rocks to.. I towed my jeep with a shitty ass U-Hual trailer and I got about 15-16 mpg... Well i love it but I'm a ford guy depends what you want remeber they are different diesels...

Dont forget the DURAMAX.........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

But add the Banks kit to any of them and know your talking.:smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:

Originally posted by Cruiserhaven
What about the GM Duramax?

that would be great if they had a solid axle. i didn't even consider a gm product because they are IFS

Good info guys:) I'm also currently looking for a diesel truck.

Hard decision to make but we decided on the space of the ford crew cab over the better mileage of the cummins.

If dodge had made a crew cab in the early 90s then that is what I would have. Oh well, PSD or direct injected (from '94) will work fine for me.
:beer:

Originally posted by camo


that would be great if they had a solid axle. i didn't even consider a gm product because they are IFS

so when are you gonna wheel your tow rig? i wanna see pics! :flipoff2: ;) :D:D

if GM had a cummins, i'd be all over a 3500 ext cab (don't like crew). i like the 454... but you can't beat the raw pulling power of an inline 6 diesel engine.

depends what you want
miliage cummings
to last cummings
low end torque cummings
true crew cab ford
i sold my cummings last year and i have missed the shit out of it. i am fixing to get another here in a month or two. every time i jump into a for psd, i stall it if its a stick. i just wish dodge would build a true crew cab. hell my tight ass would buy one.

i went for the cake and later i am gonna eat it. As in straight axle my duramax but one reason is cause i am hardcore chevy all the way but i have friends that have cummings and powerstrokes and they are good tow vehicles and i actuall considered putting a cummings in a chevy but went for a new truck$$$$ instead! But there are lemons out there no matter what you buy just hopefully you wont end up with one!

It all depends on what you like, are you a big ass titty man, or a big black ass man...... I am a big black ass man

Los, can you please expand a little on your analogy.:confused:

I prefer the dodge, we own two cummins. But what the hell, as long as it rattles and whines buy it.:smokin:

My family has always had Ford's for tow rigs. If Dodge would give us a True crew cab I'd be converted to the:vader: side. Better yet if Ford would put the Cummins in their truck that would be sweet. I could stay brand loyal and still get the "A" plan.

Originally posted by WillyPete


so when are you gonna wheel your tow rig? i wanna see pics! :flipoff2: ;) :D:D



well after i blew 3 axles out of my last suburban i vowed never to buy a ifs rig again. as far as wheeling my super duty, well i do live 30 minutes from pismo :D so if you really want pics. :skull:

Guys thanks for the info, I thought the cummins was alittle better in longevity! I can get a dodge power windows,locks air , cd 4.10 diesel extra cab 33,500 sticker! I just wonder if they are gonna put the new style on the 3/4 1 tons??????

I appreciate the help in deciding......................

Originally posted by LOS-YJ
It all depends on what you like, are you a big ass titty man, or a big black ass man...... I am a big black ass man I went with a 96 Powerstroke it fucking rocks

This confuses me: for I am also a big black ass man, and I went with a Cummins:confused:

Well Dodge is no longer going to be using a cummings 5.9L in there trucks, they are switching to a detroit diesel and for dis getting rid of the 7.3L powerstroke for a camless 6.0L powerstroke.

Originally posted by HillBilly
My family has always had Ford's for tow rigs. If Dodge would give us a True crew cab I'd be converted to the:vader: side. Better yet if Ford would put the Cummins in their truck that would be sweet. I could stay brand loyal and still get the "A" plan.

from what i have heard, ford bought out cummins, is this true, I do not know, but if it is, who says they will even use the cummins in their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, I think they bought them out for competition reasons, and to use in the bigger f-450 and up trucks!

i can get the 4x4 3/4 ton quad cab slt[pw, locks, alloys, and 265s] with a 5 speed for 29 to 30k in texas. a dually will cost about a grand more. and this is the regular price every day. sounds like you need to make a road trip. mike

unless you are going to haul over 10k don't go for the 4.10s the cumming will do great with the 3.54s. o yea don't lift it and screw up a good tow rig[ don't ask how i gained this great wisdom]

Dodge will most certainly be using the Cummins in their trucks, I believe their contract is until 2009. The new 2003 2500/3500 trucks were unveiled not too long ago, they look cool. Ford has no relation to Cummins, there was something about something a long time ago but that is long gone, no relation.

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/hdlaunch/sm_3500drw-4x.jpg

CJ

Gave 26,500 for this one last year, power everything, bumpers included.

Trailrunner,

I am wondering what planet you have been living on.


Dodge has released the new 3.4 and 1 tons with the new body style. they look OK. Dodge also has a crew cab now. it is not a real crew cab like ford or chevy but it has 4 doors. The Cummins will be in the new rams till i think 2006 when cummins contract ends with dodge. Then dodge will put a Mercedes diesel in. Who in their right mind would put a Detroit diesel in a pickup. even though DB does own DD. If you are looking a a ford you will want to wait for the new 6.0L to come out. i think they are expecting it to be released in november of 2002. since 2003 production starts in july there will be about 5 month of super duty production without a diesel. The new 6.0L is supposed to be really badass. It is NOT camless yet, look for that in 2006. with numbers above the Dmax. Ford is now useing dana 60's in all front axles for 2002 and you will only get a dana 80 in the ford if you get a dually, for a SRW you will get a ford 10.5 which is still a great axle but it does have few gear and locker choices.

Here is a Article about the new HD rams:
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/hdlaunch/hdlaunch.htm

and a writeup about the new 6.0L powerstroke:
http://forums.ford-diesel.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=UBB33&Number=599847&page=&view=&sb=&o=

If you are going to go Dodge then head up to Dave Smith Motors in Idaho. They got some kick ass deals up there. Although if I were to do it all over again I still would not have bought a Dodge. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: If you go to the 4-sale section you will see that my Ford is for sale but this is strictly because of my decision to cut my debt by 75% so all my toys go Bye Bye. I don't need a truck that big right now so why pay for it. I am a tall guy and that is one of the reasons I went with the Superduty. It has headroom up the ying yang and leg room like no other. I guess as far as the Cummins vs. Powerstroke Debate go with whatever. I know alot of guys that have tons of miles on both and in my honest opinion I would still prefer a CAT. And anybody that starts comparing the cummins in a truck to the cummins in a Semi well you must be smoking some major weed.

All I ask is that you drive every truck you can get your hands on. Borrow them for a weekend and punish them. Don't go strictly by drivetrain cause they all have the plusses and minuses. Don't get caught up in the brand cause they will all let you down at least once.

Just be thankful that they don't have spark plugs. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

If you want a real engine get this.

http://www.cat.com/products/engines_n_power_systems/shared/truck_engines/images/c16.jpg

I drive mine daily getting 16 mpg around town(heavy foot).
14 mpg towing the jeep @ 78 mph.:)
Get the 3.54's the 4.10's just aren't worth it unless your towing a heavy load 80% of the time.
Info I have is that the new dodge trucks do not have the dana axles anymore. They are using american axle company stuff in them.
The mercedes diesel is suppose to be a budget option.
And no ford does not own cummins.
I have also added the power edge ez, 4" exhaust and gauges to mine.

Originally posted by ExtremeCJ

Who in their right mind would put a Detroit diesel in a pickup. even though DB does own DD.


You mean like Chevy did for 18 years? :flipoff2:

Originally posted by ExtremeCJ

since 2003 production starts in july there will be about 5 month of super duty production without a diesel.


I have a really hard time believing that. :rolleyes:

Pete

whats wrong with Detroit diesel :confused:

there is nothign wrong with the bigger detroits but the smalelr 6.2 and 6.5 are dogs.

Look it up bro, Ford owns Cummins!!! I love the ford body style, but u have to ask yourself why a company would put the PSD in 250-450, make the Cummins Diesel the optional engine in the 550, and its the standard engine in the 650s (has some differences, lower HP, higher torque ratings, but essentially the same exact motor)!!!!! Makes you go HMMMMMMM! Take a look at the Super Duty books at the dealer, its in living color. Im gettin a Dodge with a Cummins when the budget allows. To quote a local Ford dealership owner, Fords the better truck, Dodges got the better engine, the truck will fall apart before any mechanical failure!

Ford does NOT own cummins, ford at one point owned a small part of cummins but there is no way that cummins is owned by ford. if your logic is correct that means that because Frieghtliner will put a cummins, Cat, Detroit Diesel, etc motors in a new 18 wheelers does not mean that Chyrsler owns all the compaines. Think before you speak!

Cummins: www.cummins.com NYSE symbol CUM

Quote from Cummins site
" Who are Cummins’ largest customers?
DaimlerChrysler is the largest customer of Cummins Inc. DaimlerChrysler subsidiaries purchase Cummins engines for the Dodge Ram pickup truck and for Freightliner heavy-duty and medium-duty trucks."

now if it were owned by Ford would they put that info on the FAQ page. i doubt it



Yes ford does put to cummins in the F650's but you can also get almost any other diesel to including a powerstroke.

The 5.9L cummins is not a light duty motor like the powerstroke or Dmax. The 5.9L is a medium duty truck motor. and you can get many smaller rigs like FL70's, F650's, motorhomes w/ a cummins because it can handle the power needs.

The 6.5 and 6.2 motors SUCKED. that is why GM stopped putting them in the trucks, that and also DC bought the company.

There is not going to be a mercedes diesel engine option in the new Rams. from what i have seen there will be a new 5.7L hemi derived V8 and the cummins and the V10 in the new rams.

Here is another good link to the info on the 2003 SuperDuty's.


They are not close to putting the engines into productions from what i heard there many be another delay which might make ford put the 7.3L in the trucks for one more year.

Read it:
http://forums.ford-diesel.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB33&Number=646905&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1

Ford will also be offering a new auto tranny the 5R110 which is a 5 speed auto. i was talking to a few engineers from ZF at the Detroit Auto Show and he was saying that they have a new 6 speed auto which they built to go againt the allison and they want to have ford put it in instead of the 5r110 but that will be a few years out. He would not answer my question about what is a better tranny the NV5600 or the ZF 6-speed. at least he did not lie to me.

Well not that I'm an expert, but I happen to work on Dodges all day long so I happen to know a thing or three about them. First the are pretty gutless when you get past 2300-2600 rpm's. Second they are damn loud, way louder than the psd or the chevy's. Fourth, they ride like hell, Chevy seems to ride about the best. Fifth I don't think they tow as well as the fords. Sixth, a huge complaint with dodge owners is that the gas milage sucks on the new dodges as compared with the older models. Those are the major complaints I deal with every day. I do know we have few problems with the cummins motor and if you are past factory warranty I would say turn up the pump, put a chip in it and you'll get amazing results! Trannies are pretty good and the new 6 speed manuals are great for towing but kind of suck unloaded. Auto's are nice but obviously don't last long even with regular maitenance, though some people have had good luck with them. Anyway that is about all I have to say. If I had my choice knowing the good and bad I would go with a ford, but that is just me.

Youd really go with a Ford?? Well, I guess it carries weight since you are a Dodge Mech. Ive notice that all the trucks at the lot recently have the 4.10 gear ratio, and I know that would definately destroy the gas mileage as compared to the 3.56s on the same trucks. I actually have been lookin for one, but cant find one here. I heard the same thing as above about if you dont tow a HEAVY load all the time, avoid the tall gear ratio.

Umm you cant get a cummins in the 550. you get a power stroke 250-550 and 650-750 you can get either a cummins, powerstroke or a CAT. the power stroke has a 6-speed manual or a 4-speed auto and the cummins and CAT are either a 5-speed allison or a 7-speed maunal.

Here is a little info about the rear end ratio issue. You will see more 24-valve truck with 4.10s in them than in the 12 valves. This is because they are two different engines. The sweet spot in the 24v is higher, centering around 2000 RPMs where as the 12 values peak efficiency was between 1600 and 1800. The reason people get 4.10 is at anything less than western states highway speed with a big load you are not in the using the engine effiencently. I have a 2001.5 that has 4.10s and the six speed. It revs a little high at 75 but is right in the sweet spot at 65. The 24v get slightly lower mileage than the 12v but produce much more power and pull harder. Horsepower comes from burning fuel that is just how it works. Also the emissions changes have hurt the economy. The Cummins is very easily and cheaply modified with no loss of longevity and increase in both power and efficiency.

What it comes down to is every truck on the market has problems. Cummins is the strongest most reliable engine out there but the front end on the current dodges will drive you up a wall. There is no point bickering about who make the best truck because no one does.

What else can I clear up? Cummins is not owned by Ford. Ford did start buying Cummins stock at one point but does not own Cummins. Cummins will be in the dodge at least through 2007 with the new version of the 5.9 common rail engine.

Get the truck you like to drive, learn its short comings and how to deal with them and you will be a happy camper. Be happy with what you drive and let other worry about themselves. I don’t believe I pushing a product on other people, give them the info and let them make the decision. I could right a book on full size trucks at this point.

can sombody please tell me why we are still droning along about this. they are just tow rigs. it's not like they are important like a cool trail rig or anything. :D just buy one already and tow your junk somewhere and go wheeling

hey nigel that has got to be one of the best first post i have ever seen. real tech from a newbie. good job and welcome newbie :flipoff2:

No doubt. I have owned both trucks and they both suck for what you pay for them... :eek:

Camo thanks for the hello :flipoff2: I don't believe in posting BS, people come up with enough of that on their own :rolleyes:

Ted

Originally posted by Nigel
Camo thanks for the hello :flipoff2: I don't believe in posting BS, people come up with enough of that on their own :rolleyes:

Ted

Well of course you are going to post some excelent information. You are from Bozeman :flipoff2: I went to school up there and would love to get back. Go Bobcats.

Oh and welcome Newbie :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

i currently have a 1995 psd.... ill take it over a dodge any day... and if not modified psd's pull harder and longer on the hills... rockbound liked his cummins... i used it once (thanks) and it just confirmed the fact that i like psd's much better.... got a guy at work lemon lawing his dodge... lots of problems... my 1999 psd never failed me, not in the shop once, sold with 35,000 miles on it... excellant truck, very dependable... went to a 1985 6.9 banks turbo'd ford... it was old and had a few issue's but she pulled great! now i got the 95... im not a ford, chevy, or dodge man... but i seem to like the fords the best as of this time... in the end its all up to driver prefference..... fords got my vote for now.

ohhh and what camo said..... if i didnt NEED the truck to tow my rig..... id be running around in a vette or something.. :D

I found a 1990 4wd 7.3 diesel 250 for sale for $3,750 bucks
has 235,000 miles on it should I bother even looking at it.
it was fleet maintained myby the local ford dealership every thing looks emaculate onthe thing.

I know I would rather have a 350 crew cab but the reality of it I would barely be able to afford it and my trail rig fund would be severely hindered.

I have a post on the general 4x4 section about the truck.

ok if we go with the money is no object
Major Standard Features

Cummins 5.9L ISB Diesel, 185 - 225 hp
4 or 5 speed manual or automatic transmission
Rear axle 17,500 lb - 21,000 lb
4-wheel hydraulic, 4 channel anti-lock braking system
Power steering
19.5" wheel & tire equipment
AM/FM stereo with digital clock and 2 speakers
this is of a site that sells f650 fords.
just get one of these and be done with it.

Go for the T444e.....(PowerStroke to the layperson)

JP

I have a 3/4ton dodge 20mpg unloaded 16mpg towing my toy. Its not rockit on long climbs but 60mph is good for me and its got a 60 and an 80.

We will never get anywhere debating on which truck is better, I've owned both, and they are both good trucks. In terms of info that can really help you , If I was going to get another truck(I have a '99 dodge now) I would get an early '98. The 24v motors are fine, put the eloctronic injector pumps are only good(peak performance and mileage) for appx 5000 hrs or 100k miles. The Bosch pumps on the 12v are easily and cheaply rebuilt, turned up etc. Before you buy one(if you get a dodge), check the costs on an electronic injector pump. On a side note, I have always had 1 ton duallies. Between the two, the Ford rides twice as good. But if you get a ranchand bumper(sorry dont know if you have something similar whare you are at) and fill the pipe prtion with sacrete, they ride like a cadillac(relatively speaking)