Opinions on Panasonic Gunslinger MIG

[GOAT1]

I've heard the Panasonic Gunslingers weld exceptionally clean and smooth. The regular 261's are competively priced with similar Lincolns and Millers. You can even get a 260P that has a built-in 35 amp plasma cutter for about $2500 which seems appealing. Does anyone have any good/bad opinions of Panasonic Gunslingers? Do they really weld that much better than similar Lincolns and Millers?

LINK (http://www.panasonicfa.com/cgi-bin/product.cgi?prodline=welding%20and%20robotics&category=Power%20Sources&prodid=gunslinger_260p)

Oh yeah, please dont give me the typical "iv'e got a lincon/miller/whatever and it works great" response, I use them and know how they work, I want to hear opinions about Panasonics.

[Hero]

Goat,

Dont know if this helps you any, but the plant where I work has dozens of the Panasonci Mig welders that are run by robots. And when I say run, I mean damn near 24-7-365. To date the only issue I know of was where a 'bot lost its mind and crashed, ramming the welder gun thru a 1/8 plate guard. Replaced the gun, reproged the bot and its back into production.

[GOAT1]

Thanks Hero, I've noticed that that the panasonics are pretty the standard for robotic applications, but I never see them used for this application. None of the local welding shops sell them. I'm wondering if they are advantages to the Millers and Lincoln or is it just a matter of marketing, popularity and brand loyalty?

[seattlek5]

I have a 261 Gunslinger and I love it :D I wish I would have spent the extra money for the one with the plasma on it. It has a power source for a stick welder, but I've never used it. It has lots of power, I've never even used the upper range of power on it even when welding diffs or 3/4" D-ring mounts. Get one, you won't be sorry.

[Ollyota]

i bought a 260p plamsa and mig for $1500 on ebay last december. i've had it at work, and we've been beating the balls off of it for 4 months now. it works great. the plasma cutter is really nice too. the plasma is not adjustable output, so you have to move fast on thin stuff to minimize slag. i have been able to cut bevels in 1/2" steel plate with no problem. i also like it more than most plasma torches since you are supposed to drag the tip, even on heavy stuff, no need to keep a gap. that helps me, it might bother some who are used to an ox cutting torch or conventional plasma torech.

the mig is truly smooth and all most everyone here who welds chooses it over the esab 250 (15 year old transformer mig, not solid state), for smoother welds. for big heavy stuff it starts to pull back power slightly after about 40 minute of welding, but that is for finish welding a 2000 lb 5/16" wall steel box tube structure. it doesn't become useless, but it slows you down on the really big jobs, and that was pretty much continuous welding for 40 minutes on relatively heavy steel. well past the promised duty cycle.
i also talked with the local welder repair shops, they've had good luck with these in the field, they service everything so they have no alliegance to panasonic.
i'd say its worth it, but it wouldn't hurt to try to find a better price. mine was especially cheap due to it going out to a local dealer, it never sold for $4k, and i bought it from the distributor who took it back and probably wrote it off as a loss.
let me know if you have any more specific questions, but i'd say its a safe way to go.
Mike


I've heard the Panasonic Gunslingers weld exceptionally clean and smooth. The regular 261's are competively priced with similar Lincolns and Millers. You can even get a 260P that has a built-in 35 amp plasma cutter for about $2500 which seems appealing. Does anyone have any good/bad opinions of Panasonic Gunslingers? Do they really weld that much better than similar Lincolns and Millers?

LINK (http://www.panasonicfa.com/cgi-bin/product.cgi?prodline=welding%20and%20robotics&category=Power%20Sources&prodid=gunslinger_260p)

Oh yeah, please dont give me the typical "iv'e got a lincon/miller/whatever and it works great" response, I use them and know how they work, I want to hear opinions about Panasonics.

[GOAT1]

Thanks for the good info, keep it coming.

I did not know the plasma was not adjustable, that is good to know, I have an older TD plasma that is not adjustable but it doesnt bother me, but it barely cuts 3/16".

It's hard to find a better price since no one sells them. None of the local shops stock them or were even familiar with them, they could order them for $2450 + shipping and tax or there is a place on Ebay that sells them for $2500, free shippping and out of state so no tax. List price is $3K.

The non plama 261 is only $1600 and change, a little cheaper than a Miller 251. I need to decide if the plama is worth $900 vs buying a nicer seperate plama. I'd also like to know if the Panasonic welds that much better than a Miller 251.

[1RUSTYRIG]

What kind of consumables does that thing use? I can see that as a major draw back if it is Panasonic proprietary and not Tweco...both in cost and availability

[GOAT1]

It comes with a standard Tweco MIG torch but the plasma torch is panasonic made so you would probably have to mail order consumable for it. Any welding suppy is not open on weekends or nights when I would need them so I keep plenty of that stuff on hand any way.

[Zrock]

I have had that same unit for 5-6 years and it was the biggest piece of crap i have ever bought... it is now a $3000.00 work bench.. it had been in for warrany repair 5 times and came back with the same problem everytime. If you wanted to turn it on you had to stand near the breaker box as it would blow the breakers at least 10 times before it would stay on. I also could never get a clean weld out of it or a weld that would have any sort of penitration. And before anyone says the breaker was to small or the power cord was to light it was all about 2x more than what the machine spec'd for. I also took it to a few other shops to test and had the same problems... When it kept going back for warranty they were not even testing the unit as i would mark the mig wire and it never moved so much as a 1/4 inch... I finnaly just got tired of fighting with them and ate my losses...

[Ollyota]

as far as welding goes, if you welded side by side with any modern lincoln or miller with the solid state voltage controls (the infinitely variable single knob, not the coarse range/fine range switches that pick up different transformer taps) it would pretty much be a wash. it welds just like the lincoln inverter mig i used in my mig/tig class at lincoln. if i was spending close to retail prices for a welder/plasma setup i would get a lincoln or miller just for the better local support. then you can dig around and find a standalone plasma used for about $900. like i said my setup was about $1600 to my door, which made it less than even used machines from ebay. i would just have held out for some used conventional stuff if it wasn't so cheap.

also, so you don't rule it out, the 15 year old esab we have here at work is absolutely good enough for any heavy fab work i can think of. the only place the modern machines excell for someone like me is welding thin metal (< .075) with a big machine. i prefer older, less automated stuff, its easier to fix in 10 years, like my 300 amp linde tig/stick from 1960. as long as the transformer insulaiton holds up, i will always be able to keep that thing running. its all big discrete components that will always be available. capacitors and contactors don't become obselete.

i have to think that zrock just got a lemon, but due to such limited use here in the us its hard to tell. i was pretty relieved when i opened up the covers and there really isn't much to it, they use conventional switches, pots, breakers, relays. there's only one board inside, but i don't know how much it costs to replace.

also, don't count out thermal arc, i have a 110v mig made by them for 5 years and its fantastic, uses a tweco torch and they have good local support. every shop who carries tweco brand parts has a lead to thermal arc (same parent company).

Mike


Thanks for the good info, keep it coming.

I did not know the plasma was not adjustable, that is good to know, I have an older TD plasma that is not adjustable but it doesnt bother me, but it barely cuts 3/16".

It's hard to find a better price since no one sells them. None of the local shops stock them or were even familiar with them, they could order them for $2450 + shipping and tax or there is a place on Ebay that sells them for $2500, free shippping and out of state so no tax. List price is $3K.

The non plama 261 is only $1600 and change, a little cheaper than a Miller 251. I need to decide if the plama is worth $900 vs buying a nicer seperate plama. I'd also like to know if the Panasonic welds that much better than a Miller 251.

[BurntOrange]

I remembered a Hobart msg forum thread discussing the Gunslingers and looked it up. Note post #5 by "ventureline":

"I do panasonic warranty work, I don't mind the Mig/ Stick 260 Gunslingers. The hassle with them is that most people don't turn the machine to off when switching modes. With out turning the machines off, the stick/mig switch blows up. Caps tend to surge.
Hell, I bought 2 new ones off ebay last week for a grand a pop.

I've had more than a few problems with the Plaasma setup though..."

http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/showthread.php?t=10487

I e-mailed the guy to see if he can provide any more info on the plasma problems he's seen.

[BurntOrange]

Oh, and BTW, I'm not trying to bash these machines by digging up dirt on them or anything. The reason I remembered that old post was because I researched the Gunslingers and was seriously considering buying a 260P. I contacted several of the eBay vendors selling new units and kept an eye out for a used unit for a long, long time.

I ultimately decided that for such an expensive piece of equipment at $2500 it probably wasn't worth the risk. Like others have noted local support is going to be very poor compared to the major brands.

I think the 260P mig/plasma combo would be a huge success if they could price it more like $1900. But at $2500 to $3000+ depending on where you buy it just isn't enough of a cost savings. Probably a better long-term investment to go buy a Millermatic 210 or 251 and a mid-range plasma unit.

That being said, picking one up for $1500 like Ollyota did looks like a good deal to me. I would have jumped on it too.

[BurntOrange]

One last thing worth mentioning. Northern Tool used to sell the Panasonic line. They don't have the Gunslingers on their website anymore. I would have to check their print catalogs to see if they are still in there. They were priced higher than you can find them on eBay.

[GOAT1]

I dont think I want the Mig/plasma. I already have a light duty plasma but will get a heavy duty one down the road. The regular 261 gunslinger MIG is still an option, I can get it for less than a Miller 251, but just trying to decide if it is that much better than a miller to justify getting an oddball brand.

[fivetenben]

Another thing to consider is resale. A 3y.o. Miller will probably sell faster and for more $$ than the Panasonic.

[Ollyota]

like i said it was worth it for me, i had no plasma, and it was almost $1K less than you're looking at. if the difference is a few hundred dollars, get something more conventional. any 250+ amp lincoln, miller, esab, thermal arc will be a good machine for fabrication work on your truck and i doubt you will outgrow it.
Mike

I dont think I want the Mig/plasma. I already have a light duty plasma but will get a heavy duty one down the road. The regular 261 gunslinger MIG is still an option, I can get it for less than a Miller 251, but just trying to decide if it is that much better than a miller to justify getting an oddball brand.