440 questions

[discochef]

Hi guys- First of all Im a land rover gal so my knowledge of Dodge stuff is limited... I have an old Barth bookmobile that has a 440 engine in it that my dad had rebuilt about 6 years ago and then never used the truck again. I have now pulled the engine and tranny and I want to create a off roader out of it- so my questions are: which tcase,drive train would make a good pairing for my creation- I am still learning about building stuff so dont flame me too much! :)

[Old Scout]

Just use Divorced 205

[discochef]

OK I did a search- what exactly is a divorced 205? do you think this engine would be good for this application? around here its mostly mud.

[crashnzuk]

A divorced 205 is a New Process 205 tranfer case that is mounted seperately behind the transmission with a short driveshaft between the two. I am no expert on mud, but I would think a 440 would be a good mud motor.
Travis..

[discochef]

ah- Now for my next question- do you think rockwell 2.5t axles would be overkill are there better options- I got the rockwell rear for 200 bucks. I havent decided on what type of body as I had originally wanted to put it in a rover but its too big. a chevy luv or a gremlin would be rockin

[eastment]

As far as T-case options from the junk yard you'll have NP 203 (full time transfer case with high and low lock) or the NP 205 Part time T-case. I'd suggest for strength go with the 205 you dont necessarily need adivorced unit, in fact I'd recommend a married unit (bolts up to the tranny - t-case adapter). Are you running an auto or manual behind the 440?

Eric

[fat_man]

overkill? it all depends on how big a tire you are going to run. If you are only going to run a 38 or smaller than I would say that is overkill. If you plan on running 44s or larger than I dont see a problem. As I always say when in doubt...OVERBUILD! :D It is better to have a too big of an axle than one that always breaks.

[MuddyV8YJ]

if you don't have anything for a tcase yet, grab a cheap 203 to run married and the use a doubler with a 205. I say use the rockwell, or give it to me.

[SeahawkDodge]

The gearing in rockwells doesn't lend itself well to mudding, without getting some really big tires. If you are going to run 44's though, they might be okay.
Another option might be a Dana 60 front, and a Dana 70 or 80 rear...maybe a 14 bolt GM. Dana 60 fronts are expensive though.

The 440 should be great for mud running, depending on how it was built.
Look for a 727 transmission, with a big block bellhousing. More than likely, that is what is already on it.

If you were going to go to a married transfer case, you would have to swap out the tailshaft with a 4x4 unit. To do that, the entire tranny must be disassembled. Basically, a divorced Tcase would be your best bet, just have a custom CV shaft made.

[discochef]

The barth has an auto tranny- I will try to get out there and see if its got a giant bell housing- would the numbers be anywhere on it? I guess I hadnt thought of the exact size of tire yet only I would like it obscenely large as on my land rover im kind of limited by budget right now so it will be fun to do something with a vehicle that the parts can come from the junk yard. so then do I just collect the parts I need then make the body fit the parts or the parts fit the body?

[Elwenil]

Easiest way to ID a 727 Torqueflite is by looking at the pan:
http://store1.yimg.com/I/chucker54_1844_5042513
Note the kick out on the pan, this is the most obvious characteristic of the 727 pan and is easy to spot. It is possible you may have an old Allison automatic behind the 440, which may or may not be a good thing. Rockwells are good axles, but as was stated before they are overkill for anything smaller than 44s, and you need a big body to put them under in my opinion. Depending on what length chassis you choose, you may have to go with a mated transmission and transfer case. I recommend the NP205 over just about anything out there. If you go with a longer wheelbase chassis, you can get by with a divorced set up, but anything short will give you problems with a full length tranny and the added length of the divorced transfer case and shaft. you basically need to decide on a chassis now before you start going any further. In my opinion a Land Rover, Luv, etc. would be a poor choice as a starting point simply because of the fabrication needed to put all of it together. I'd look for a longbed 4x4 Dodge pickup if it were me. 440 is basically a bolt in deal, and the truck would already have a nice leaf spring set up that you could attach just about any axle to without a lot of trouble. All of this has been done before in a Dodge truck, so info on doing it is readily available. You could luck out and find a decent Dodge 3/4 ton 4x4 and not even need to swap axles and have better choices in gearing. Rockwells have very limited gear choices and they are all extremely low, so unless you are running 44s, 46s, or 52s or something, you are going to find that you can't get enough wheel speed to get through deep mud very easily. Just my .02

[discochef]

Thank you -those are very good points to consider- I dont want to get half way into it and discover I have gone about it a bad way. Im not used to wheeling in a long wheel base vehicle so that was my purpose of going with the rover or even the super bad ass chevy luv! So I guess if youre tires are big enough you dont have to worry as much about approach and departure angle?

[440_D50]

OK, you're losing me...... You said it was mostly mud, then you jumped to approach angles. If you're doing just nasty mud, the 440 will be awesome with a bit of mild upgrading. If you're "rock crawling", the 440 is overkill.

If it's just mud, I have the ultimate setup, but you said money will be tight, not good for any project. I have seen an early Dodge D50, kinda like a luv, on a fullsize longbed frame. It had a built 440 on nitrous, 727 automatic and married 203 transfer case. Those are all easy. It was on Rockwells, I think they're all 6.72 gears, but you need lots of lift to clear your oil pan over the axles. It had 44 boggers, as those were the biggest and best at that time. There was no mud that could stop this truck. This was in NC where the mud is mostly RED CLAY, and doesn't clean out of tires worth a crap.

I've done almost the same truck, just no rockwells or 44's. It does good, but it takes a lot of work to get the little body to work with all of the other parts. Steering was easy, but tricky. Brakes were a nightmare, but I used hydraulic assist instead of vaccuum. The radiator situation sucked, so I just stuck it in the back. I used a ramcharger frame and 35 boggers, but could have fit bigger. I just couldn't afford them. If I knew how to post pics, I'd show you.

It didn't do very well crawling though. I didn't have low enough gearing and all of that power wanted to snap axles.

[discochef]

We generally go down to natural bridge/slade area in kentucky it is a mixture of mud with some interesting rocks in suprising places- I tend to stick to trails that arent too much of one thing- so I doubt I would use this truck as strictly a mudder or a rock crawler- could I make it versitile enough to do both or with the power of the engine am I just limited to one thing?

[Elwenil]

More power is a great thing, and you can never really have too much, but you must built the rig to take it and whatever abuse you are going to put it through. My W100 has a mild 383 and I had to put $300 in a nice clutch to keep it from eating them like candy. Same with my intermediate shaft. If it were me, I'd put the engine in front of a NP 435 4 speed, with a NP205 transfer behind it, run the Rockwells, with some nice Michelin XLs and put it all under a nice Dodge truck chassis and put a 10k or 12k lbs worm gear winch on the front. That way you pretty much have all the bases covered for a good all around rig. Stick with leaf spring suspension to lower costs and keep it simple. You could substitute an automatic, but every car/truck I have built with an auto, I find myself wishing I had a 4 speed. I've never built a 4 speed and wished I had an automatic, but that's just me. When looking for the chassis, you might look for a 3/4 ton so you won't need to swap axles and you can run a cheaper tire, say 35" or so. you can always upgrade later as time/money/parts breakage allows. Just my .02