Being the oh so cheap bastard that I am, I finally decided to bite the bullet and slice up the stock AC compressor in the XJ rather than fiddle with the York. I would rather lose the AC and gain OBA and a welder than just have a York. I've got it all pieced together on the bench aside from the intake side. Unlike the York, the Saden doesn't have its own oil sump so it needs to be lubed from an external source. How are you folks lubing yours, and how much? I haven't been able to find any specs on how much it needs, so any info helps. I did find one site that mentioned using an air tool oiler behind the intake filter to keep things in check. Any thoughts?

Although they aren't designed for the low pressure differential, I have heard of people using standard industrial oilers such as a Wilkerson L08 with good results.

cmk

I just add a couple ounces of 10-30 in the inspection hole at the top of the compressor. However, Kilby makes a dipstick for the Sanden compressors if you want to be more precise. I think they run about $5. And, since Sanden blows way more oil than Yorks, so you will absolutely need to run an oil filter on the output side. I'm still trying to find a filter that can handle the heat.
-Jon

Now smack me and call me retarded if this is a dumb idea, but wouldn't it be possible to just run some high temp, oil resistant line a wee bit longer then normal before hitting the oil/water separater? Seems like this would give it a little bit of cooldown time.

So Ottis, are you just running a hose connected to a filter on the intake side and then just putting in a few drops before use each use?

I've heard mixed feelings on this. Some folks say that they had to use a ton of oil in them to keep from burning up, and others say that they only gave it a few drops of air tool oil every once in a while. Then you have people saying that it blows no oil, and others saying it is all over the place. Anybody else?

oil it once a year or so with Slick 50, or any other teflon based lubricant. works for mine.

York Shmork.

I agree.... they (Sandens) dont need to have constant oil. Just a squirt or two after every few uses and you will be fine. Blow out the excess before using it on your tires amnd you dont have to worry about a filter.

Too Simple.

I run a Sanden with an inline tool oiler with 10w-30 on the intake side and an air/water/oil separator on the output. I have blown high temp goodyear airline on the output side due to the heat so i added a few pieces. I run transmission fluid cooler line to an external trans cooler (not overly efficient, but it helps) then back through the goodyear hose to the separator. I picked the pieces up here or there on sale and didn't pay that much. I waited about 3 months to put it together because I kept an eye out to find everything as cheap as possible.

There was a long discussion a month or so ago on the General Board of different compressors etc etc.

anyway, here's a (crappy) pic of a high temp oil coelescing filter rated to 250psi/250F.

http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v3/7/41/50/29774150IllsbIULYj_ph

It wasn't cheap... picked it up from Kilby www.onboardair.com. Its a coilhouse pneumatics (sp).

1) You absolutely do NOT need a coalescing filter on an OBA system. Coalescers are designed for use in high precision equipment and places where minute amounts of oil cannot be tolerated. Coalescers are not even designed to seperate "slugs" of oil. They are only designed to weed out oil vapor. A properly chosen particulate filter will spin out the slugs of oil. All good particulate filters have liquid seperators built in.

2) A filter/regulator should always be plumbed downstream of the reservoir/tank. If you guys are putting them upstream of the tank, it's no wonder you're having problems with heat. Reservoirs serve three purposes: 1) volume chamber, 2) heat exchanger, and 3) filter. A tank will ditch the majority of the heat of compression induced into the air. Now if you put that tank directly above your exhaust manifold, you're probably doing more bad than good.

cm "CFPPS" k

Josh- I am runnin a cheap $3 lawn mower filter on the inlet side of the compressor, and just add the oil every 3-4 uses (complete tire fills) The filter is way too close to the compressor, so i've melted a couple filters, but there just isn't room for a tank under the hood of the XJ. I've had good luck running the stock A/C line for the outlet line- it can handle the heat. There are a couple pics here. http://home.att.net/~j.kaczmarski/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html :D
-Jon

CMK, I hope you won't mind if I don't follow your notes.

I'd rather keep the oil out of my tank thanks.

Try finding an air tank from a tractor trailer, or just its trailer. These tanks are fairly small and have a drain valve in the bottom. Just yank the chain attached to the drain valve and out comes all the water/oil that has accumulated in the tank. No need for extra filters. And why wouldnt you want oil in your tank? The condensation from heating and cooling air as its compressed will eventually rust out the inside of the tank, the oil will help prevent this.

FWIW

Dan, just to expound on what kwrangln said,

Another reason why good design puts the filter/regulator downstream of the tank is so that the tank charges to a pressure greater than your regulated pressure. Regulated pressure is normally right around 100 psi. But if your tank is rated for 150 psi, why not charge it to 150 psi and thereby store more air in the tank.

Check out any shop or even industrial compressor. They're all set up the same way. If you ran 100 psi in your tank, you would NEVER be able to get 100 psi at your tool (not that tool) due to the pressure drop inherent in every piece of tubing/fitting/quick connect/etc.

If you're gonna' run the filter/regulator before the tank, just be sure that you're getting the heat of compression out of the air and/or running a filter/regulator with Viton seals. The Viton can handle the heat far better than the standard Buna seals. Viton seals can be identified by their rust color versus Buna's black color.

BTW, I'm not mouthin' mouth as if I'm a "know it all." Well, in some senses, when it comes to air, I am. But anyways, I have seen far too many ill designed OBA setups and have watched friends blow up outlet lines, filter bowls, etc. When dealing with compressed air, you are basically playing with a bomb.

cmk

Take a look at this:
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cherokee/2001/05_may/onboard-air/onboardair1.html

my .02$

Her is what I run if it helps.. this setup has worked great for 3 years...

YORK, with 40" Hydrualic leader hose on output side then connects to the good blue GOODYEAR STUFF..this line runs all the way back to the rear of my XJ then connects to a 7 gallon tank...after the tank I have my pressure switch(with a dash mounted switch to tuen on the clutch).... then more blue hose.. then to my oil/water separater from WALMART.. Cambell Hausfield.. 16$.... then of course to the air chuck...to plug in all of the goodies... switch it set to shut off at 130 psi and kick back on at 100 psi.

By the ime the air gets to the switch and oil/water separater the air is cold...I have seen too many guys having trouble with their OBA components when they are mounted under the hood..

I empty the tank every once and a while and the separator every few trail rides... KISS

milkman

and for who every said YORK SMORK...:flipoff2: you wanna have an air competition? my YORK eats sandens for breakfast!

Originally posted by erikrs301
Take a look at this:
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cherokee/2001/05_may/onboard-air/onboardair1.html

... not impressed.

Yes, some rubber hose will work on the outlet side, but in general it's a bad idea. How often do you see rubber hose on a commercial or industrial compressor/tank setup? There's a reason for that.

And once again, it's a prime example of the wrong place to put your filter/regulator.

As with anything else, there is more than one way to "skin a cat." But one of those ways will always be better ... and safer ... for you and the cat.

cmk

Originally posted by erikrs301
Take a look at this:
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cherokee/2001/05_may/onboard-air/onboardair1.html

Yea, I already read that one along with a few others. I know how I want everything run, it is just the oiling that I was still scratching my head on. That article just has an open intake and a note saying that oiling and a filter will be addressed later.

I'll just try using some teflon lube or something in there and see how that goes. I was talking to a few people that have been running theirs DRY :eek: for months and haven't blown them, so the occassional teflon lube sound like it will do the job.

Milkman: Your York may eat my Saden (I assume you are using the 10cfm unit?) but I wanted room for the "cheap bastard" on board welder. Hence, I left my York sitting on my workbench.

I've watched Sandens that weren't lubed let go, firsthand. They throw off a spectacular fireworks show at night.

Anytime you design in a Sanden (versus a York), you're going to run into "issues" with oil running through the system. Your best bet is to feed it with a generous amount of oil either with an oiled foam prefilter or an industrial lubricator, let the oil bypass into the tank, drain the tank regularly, and run a properly sized particulate filter (all good particulate filters have liquid seperators built in) downstream of the tank.

See if you can't get a catalog from these guys:
Wilkerson (http://www.wilkersoncorp.com). Their catalog has some excellent design info as far as sizing filters, regulators, etc.

cmk

Yeah.. F210R...

as they say.."no replacement for displacement"... this applies to OBA too!!!!!!!

I too have seen a Sanden explode... with plenty of oil in it...wasnt pretty...Just dont want you to waste your time on somehting your gonna have to re-do later...

Milkman

GOT YORK?.....

I put a sanden under the Hood of my ZJ since there was no room for the york, and I could sandwich the thing in there really closely. The lube is tricky, and there's no really good way to fill it except to use dead reckoning. I try to use the Kilby dipstick, but it's not the best solution. Its best use is to act as a fluid guide to pour the oil into the compressor (I use freon-type compressor lube from c/s/k). I just used the dipstick to add some more oil to the compressor, and I filled it to the BOTTOM of the stick. I must have overfilled it, since I'm now looking at a filter FULL of oil :P (by the way, the campbell hausfeld $12 Home Depot filter works well, and I haven´t melted the damn thing yet, even after marathon air up sessions). I must admit, it spews alot of oil.

So when I go to ARB´s, I'm planning on running this compressor. The big problem is that I might need to run a tank, since there is no good way to keep the air really clean without having a low velocity dump for the suspended oil particles (kinda like a stream that dumps its sediment in the meanders). Although, if I fill the sanden up with gear oil, I could then just use it without concern. :rolleyes:

So to conclude, I don't have any heat problems causing damage (kind of like I don't have a drinking problem - I drink, get drunk fall down, no problem. Sure, things get hot, but no problem), I don't use an inline oiler, and if the thing kicks it, I can pick up another one for $30 at the yard. I'm hoping I'll at least get the highly touted nocturnal pyrotecnics, as described by cmk. That - would kick ass.

Maybe I'll pick up a caddy compressor as an ARB backup, but for now, the slightly high maintenance sanden kicks ass for output and compliance with restricted space design...

Bob

CMK, My filter is upstream from the tank. the rest is downstream. My pressure switch is set to 135 (on at 105) and I regulate a separate line to 85psi for the ARBs. My rear quick connect is not regulated. fwiw, I have the pressures set to this because I have a caddy backup electric sharing the same pressure switch and it has a hard time getting past 135.

Kwranger, why get the tank full of oil? Since I use more than one outlet fitting on the tank, I'd need more than one filter. I'd rather keep the oil out and near the compressor.

The other advantage I see having the oil filter close to the compressor and ahead of the tank is being able to recycle the oil back to the compressor (ala Nasvik's writeup on www.jeepshots.com ). I haven't done this yet cuz I was short a fitting and ran out of time.

amyway, my York setup (http://community.webshots.com/album/28686243xfTkSEcTdt) has worked great except I forgot a hose clamp on the outlet of the oil filter and it blew off after about 30 minutes of use:rolleyes: I blame that screwup too many beers and it got late on a weeknight :)

- Dan

First of all, excellent job on your OBA Dan, very clean and well done.

Next up, I think cmk has the right idea with the oily tanks. My front bumper is an air tank and would be a really quick shot of hose off of the compressor. From there I can throw a length of hose running to the rockers and rear bumper, which are also tanks. The tanks are going to get their fair share of oil inside, but that I really don't mind. From there I think I will steal Milkman's idea of running the pressure switch, etc. in the rear to save space and avoid heat and contaminates. How's this sound? All told, it should come in at less than $100 with all of the hose, accessories, fittings, blah blah blah.

I use a york on my CJ, and even though there is really no need to, I squirt a shot of "oil" down the intake every once in a while. I use a simple plastic EGR filter to clean the air.

I can't see why a inline oiler wouldn't work on the intake side to oil the pump. Understandably the difference in air pressure, but what about the air flow. If it's too big of a headache, then shots of oil manually periodically during use would suffice.

Besides... aren't you supposed to oil the air tools also? :D I wouldn't be worried about it myself. I don't think I'd be running a paint sprayer out in the bush... only an impact, air chizel, die cutter an air ratchet and to air up off of the trail.

I have run a sandan now for awhile and actually like the fact it blows a little oil. It lubs the air tools and keeps the tanks from rusting. It may be a little messy at times but so is the rest of my jeep so who cares.......

Hey Just an FYI here. ( already have 3 ways to air tires, but I bought this anyways) for about 15 bucks at pull apart, you can get a decent small air compressor out of a subaru XT (its about the size of the ARB compressor) inside the drivers side front fender forward of the tire. even has a small 1/2 gallon tank. pressure switch and electric solinoid valve. They are for the air suspension system. Not sure what the CFM is, but hey for 15 bucks its worth playing with.