Hey, I decided to sell the CJ and build up my cherokee, I want to SOA the front axle and inboard the rear springs to gain my lift. We figured it could be raised a good 9-12 inches depending if I use lift springs or not. my questions are concerning the front pinion angle and steering geometry. The front driveline looks like it would be bound, and with SOA up front looks like steering bars would hit leaf springs. Can you rotate the pinion end of housing upward to lessen angle? And what to do with steering arms? the lift part is easy just the rest need some sorting. Any help would be great!!!:rolleyes:

NO-VA ... Welcome Newbie! :flipoff2:

What yeay FSJ ya got :confused:

I have a 76 Chero and did an SOA long ago. I didn't have to inboard though. Gimme some more detail here and we'll see what you gotta do.

:beer:



-TIGGER4X4-
_/_______\_
{O|||||||O}
[_]--O---[_]

and the FSJ crowd grows some more... :D

what is this magical process of inboarding i keep hearing of? i'm probly just gonna use the rear shackle kit riverbeast off of IFSJA is making to balance out my front SOA (planned) for the cherry.

Its a 1977 2door cherokee, 360 V8, T-18 4 speed, Dana 20 t-case, and Dana 44's front and rear. On the rear end of the truck the leaf springs are mounted outside the frame rails and up high. Thought about relocating them under frame rails and putting new perches on axle. gain lots of lift here if you make long shackles and the right front spring mount.
On the front end I want to do a spring over and build new spring mounts combined with longer shackles. Even with stock springs I could gain 9 inches from doing this!! Looks to good to be true. Just have to solve steering and pinion angle woes.:beer:

36s will clear with just SOA, and inboarding the rears, just rub at full stuff, and Im talkin inside the fender, on top, FLEXY!!

what did you have to do to your steering to clear the front pass. side leaf spring? after SOA? And was your front driveline at to much angle??

is your cherokee a WT model?

YEP

NOVA ...

I have a '76 Chero 2 door with SOA'd Dana 44 front and AMC20 rear on 36" swampers. It had an OLDS 455 and TH350 in it. I yanked it all out and am putting in a Propane 360, TH400/475, Doubler T-case, DANA60 front and 14BOLT rear with SOA on top of 37" MTs.

Doing the SOA isn't too hard at all. I don't wanna yakkity yak about all of the details unless you are really interested. Lemme know and I'll tell ya how I did mine and eliminated the blocks of :skull:!

I know how to do the SOA, just want know how all the steering linkages worked out afterwards. like I said earlier looks like steering will hit pass. side leaf. Thanks :beer:

NOVA ... I have had no problems with any leaf spring contact on my set up and that was running on the 36"x12.5"x15" Swampers. I have had both the stock Cherokee 44 up front and the Wide 44 from a Wagoneer. As far as the steering goes all I used was a drop pitman arm and installed a Rancho shock on the drag link.
Are you going to be running with the :skull: 4" blocks most kits come with?!?
IMHO I think they are rather unsafe, especially when rockcrawling. My SOA is custom and eliminated the :barf:blocks ... AND the rear end sag. Inboarding your rear springs isn't necessary. It seemed like a whole helluvalotta more work than was actually needed to achieve the desired effect.
Again, I'll go into more detail iffin ya wana hear an option.

:beer: TIGGER4X

oh hey tigger... about WT waggies...

turns out some dealer took extra J10 flares he had lying around, bolted them onto a waggy, then stuck cherry axles underneath. then he redid the paint. it was a dealer special order type thing.

WILLYPETE
... won't that just twist OZARKJEEPs panties! :eek:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


Where did you find this out?!? I would love to stick it right under his nose!! :D

BTW - PICS would be the :nuke:!! Then we won't hear any :crybaby: whinin'!! he he he

seems like you just need to go hi-steer

heard it on IFSJA... i forget the exact post tho. just do a search. it was pretty recent

I read that Jeep made a WT model cherokee in the Jeep Bible. So I looked at my vin # and sure enough mine was one. Tigger looks like to me moving the springs under the frame rails would be a snap. We figured it would cost about $20 worth of steel to build new perches, shackles, and spring hangers. Pretty cheap lift plus you retain the stock spring wich has more flex. Moving the springs inward should allow the axle to articulate more freely also. Thanks for the info on the front end thats what I needed to hear.:) :beer:

I have the chance to pick up an '83 Cherokee with the 360/727/208 combo and I was thinking of picking it up as a tow vehicle for my Scrambler and a daily driver .

Do you guys tow with yours, and do they handle a heavy load ok. I plan on flat towing until I can afford a decent trailer with trailer brakes.

kerryp

360s are beasts if built correctly, and are quite capable of towing in stock form too. if you do get a cherokee for towing, try and get at least 3.31 or 3.55 gears. the 3.07s tend to be weak, and the 2.73s are for mileage only.

i think the stock tow package is rated for 5000 lbs trailer weight.

I'd like to see some pics of how you did that rearend. I'm swapping my CJ-8 for a '79 Cherokee Chief next week. Part of the deal is the fab work on the SOA. Any help is appreciated.

Tim

TIM ... no seat man. I don't have a digi-cam so I can't get pics for you. I have tried taking Polaroids and scanning them but either they end up huge and take FOREVER:mad3: to download or they fawkers just won't open. Lemme see if my buddy Gozuki can help me out with the Polaroids n such.
If it doesn't work out I can probably walk you through it iffin you got the patience to listen to me babble. :D

:beer:

Definitely. I'm the type that will work through everything in my mind before I'll pick up that first wrench. This one will be used for moderate to exterme wheeling (Tellico type), so I want to do this right the first time.

Tim

On that steering linkage, I got a set of Bob Roggys Hi steer arms (with a 1 inch rise)and a passenger side flatop knuckle, it fixed the steering perfectly, no need for a dropped pitman arm. I think I am in contention for the best steering lifted HEEP!! Also, I think it happened accidentally, but u can use stock narrow track long side tie rod and drag link assemblies vice all the custom stuff if u use Bob Roggy arms, I did. Hella easy finding replacemnts!! 36s stuff nicely, but Im goin down to a 35, sellin the WELDs and 36s for some cash (have the 35s in the garage) for a TOY that I have. No, its not a conflict of inerests having a Toyota and a FSJ, its harmony!!!!:D

TIM ... are you doing the SOA on the CJ8 or on the Chief:question: just wanna be sure before we get started. :D Lemme know soon and we'll fire this up!

I took some pics and sent them to my buddy. He is gonna work 'em up and then email them to me probably tonight, and then I can email them to you.

Chat ya later. :beer:

Tigger did u end up inboarding the rear, I got the mounts done, flexed it out in the driveway, and then my J trucks mission changed to be a tow vehicle as well, Inboarded springs no good. Long story short, in went Rustys lift rear springs and back to hanging shackles for tow purposes.:rolleyes: Post pics of your truck dude, been wonderin myself!!!!

It's on the Cherokee. I've got a '82 CJ-8 that I'm selling. Part of the deal is the guy buying the 8 will do the SOA and shackle reversal on the new Cherokee. He's a very competent fabricator, I just want to use a tried and true method rather than reinventing the wheel.

When you get those pics, if you don't post them her, send them to me at tosha@par-research.com. I've got a dialup here at home so it would take me forever.

Tim

Busy at work Today, eh! I got this to do, that to do, on the computer huh! That CJ you sold me is a gem! Drained the water (after the ice unthawed) from the transfer case and transmission and it was good as new! I went home sick from work today, cruzed to S&R filled gas and took it for a 5 mile tour then came home and played with the wiring. That stuff is shot, what do I need to know about replacement gauges, are they all about the same or is there brands to stay away from or get??? Want to do what you did to the S-10 but not as fancy. Replace the whole panel with aluminum and cut in just the important guages. Speed, temp, oil pressure, amps!


THE RACE IS ON!!!:beer: :beer: :beer:

HOW DO I POST THE PICS I TOOK:question:

I done got muh star n stuff, but I dunt know howz tuh use the dern thang. :rasta:

I could only save them as ".tif" and ".bmp" files. Will they work here?

Thanks!! :beer:











:eek: This was my "976" post ... :evil: :D ;) :smokin:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tigger4x
[B]HOW DO I POST THE PICS I TOOK:question:

I done got muh star n stuff, but I dunt know howz tuh use the dern thang. :rasta:

I could only save them as ".tif" and ".bmp" files. Will they work here?

]QUOTE]
email me a pic and ill see if i can change it

BRAD ... what is your email addy? I tried clicking on the "email" box below your post but I get NADA :confused:

After I email the pics to you, you gotta tell me how it works so I can do it myself in the future. :beer:

hmm worked when i clicked on it
bradt819@aol.com

here ya go, i just opened it in MS paint and went to SAVE AS, then went to below the file name it has what kind of file it is, changed to JPG and here ya go

THANKS BRAD ... you the :nuke: man! :D


EDIT : I just checked my MS Paint ... I kin doo eeet!! :beer: THANKY!!

TJOSHA and JSLAMERMAN ...

BRAD just posted the pics I took of the completed mods for the rear leaf springs on my Cherokee. Here is a brief summation of the undertaking. These go along with the other "standard mods" like extended brake lines, shifter linkages and/or cables, etc.

With the rear axle completely removed and out of the way, pull the e-brake cables back through the oblong holes on the inside of the frame. For the forward mount you need to weld a metal "patch" at least 3"x3" over the oblong hole. (I used a 3/16" bar stock.) There should already be a "factory" hole where you can see I have my leaf spring bolt running now. You will use that hole as a guide to mark where you will drill through the "patch" to make a corresponding hole. On the driver's side a little trimming at the bottom of the spring mount is usually necessary to give enough clearance for the spring to flex downward. You may need to do both sides though.
Now moving to the rear mount and inverting the shackle. With the stock shackle removed cut the "bottom of the box" out. This leaves only the front, back, and outer edges in tact. Cut and weld a square piece to cover the outer edge exactly. Next measure out two pieces of metal to go from the newly added outer piece to the top of the outer edge of the frame and then weld the two pieces in place side by side. Depending on your preference you may want to add another piece of metal to the back side of the mount and weld it to the outer edge and the new angled pieces.
When you go to install the leaf spring into its new lower position you may want to first install a slightly longer bolt in the original location with a piece of thick tube that will fit snugly inside the mount to provide a type of brace so the box has less tendancy to squish inward causing the leaf spring to bind on the edges and not pivot well.

You will need to re-attach the e-brake lines by whatever means you feel comfortable with. I am goig with a pinion mounted e-brake so I pitched mine. You may also decide to play with the length of your shackle.

Before this mod, my Cherokee had :rainbow:4" blocks:barf: of :skull: in the rear and also suffered from rear end sag. Owl hunting may be fun for some but I prefer my headlights pointed at the pavement.:D NOW, my Chero has NO BLOCKS and the rear end has about 1/2-3/4" of rear end rise. With a load of gear it almost evens out.

So all in all, if you are going to do an SOA, why would you wanna keep those fawkin blocks if you can get better and safer !?!

Just my.02!!! :beer: Good Luck with yours. :beer:

Thanks for the write up. I'll read through it several times before I pass them on to he fab guy.

By the way, now that you know how to do the pics, let's see the complete rig. I want to see the overall picture.

Thanks, Tim

also with the inboard setup you'll flex alot better because the axle will have more leverage on the spring

Check out this link on high steering:

http://billavista.tripod.com/Steering/Research/steeringresearch.html (HI STEER)

linky no worky.

Originally posted by tjosha
By the way, now that you know how to do the pics, let's see the complete rig. I want to see the overall picture. Thanks, Tim

I have a pic of the back half that I am gonna try to post. It is a little dark but should give a good idea of whats what. :beer:

http://members2.photofun.com/Tigger4x/iTOOLImageGallery/Cherokee%20Rt%20Rr%2Ejpg

Hope this helps you out some ...

You needa cut them narrow track fenders out!!!

How far inboard are you goinr with the rear springs? When i do my SOA/Shackley flip on my daily Driver 88 GW (already on BDS 4"ers), i wanna go as far inboard as I can, to get max. flex. I kno it will hadle like shit on the road, but Fawk it. Wanna see Pics of how far inside the frame you went. Good luck, FSJ's KICK A$$! :usa:

Long time no post, Hey tigger why wont moving my springs inward work? I havent done anything yet but am going to start soon as my other project is finished. Your way looks easy to do also but I want more lift from stock springs. Not a matter of not being able to buy new springs but I feel the stock ones will flex more than lift ones.

Itl work, I did it (and remounted them outboard for towing stability), you have to box the frame at least 6" fore and aft of the spring mount and shackle mount to provide enough strenght (or you will bend the frame. The only reason it gets difficult is because it is time consuming. You have to remove the gas tank to do the passenger side. What tigger did was probably the best, because he gets more shackle movement mounted that way (more flex), and still maintains some stability. For strictly 4 wheelin, inboard.

Originally posted by jslamerman
You needa cut them narrow track fenders out!!! Once I get the D60 and 14 bolt in ... ITS AWWWN !! :smokin: :beer:
And yes, I'll post pics of what I do, when I finally do it. Gotta clear the 37s. :D
Originally posted by FCwheeler
i wanna go as far inboard as I can, to get max. flex. I kno it will hadle like shit on the road, but Fawk it. Wanna see Pics of how far inside the frame you went. Inboarding your springs can be a good thing for an off road only rig. IF, when you wreck on the street, you will be automatically found to be at fault. DON'T inboard if your are gonna ever hit the pavement!! I didn't inboard my springs at all. IF I go any more inward, if at all, it will be to go under the frame. That'll mean new custom shackle mounts but it won't be too bad.
Originally posted by nova
why wont moving my springs inward work? ... Inboarding works, but you don't wanna do it on a DD or a combo rig. Your way looks easy to do also but I want more lift from stock springs. Not a matter of not being able to buy new springs but I feel the stock ones will flex more than lift ones.I don't think you are gonna get much more out of stock springs. I am going to try out the Waggie 7 leaf pack and play with them for a bit. Once I'm done with them I am going to go with the Rancho 44044s.

Just my .02 for you guys. :beer:

How many true extreme trail FSJ's are out there? My intentions are to be able to run side by side on the tight trails with the YJ's and CJ's in my area. I have no problems with the body damage that will surely occur. I just like the Cherokee and the space/protection that it provides. If you have pics of the more extreme rigs, I'd love to see them.

Tim

Originally posted by jslamerman
You needa cut them narrow track fenders out!!!

Sketched out a few slightly different views for possible sawzall action. The top sketch is the stock fender and the second is the proposed post-sawzall view. If you look at the top pic, the lower left portion unbolts so I don't hafta hack it. Gimme your input guys. :beer:

http://members2.photofun.com/Tigger4x/iTOOLImageGallery/Cherokee%20Frt%20Fender.jpg

I think I will end up unbolting the lower front portion. It'll give me more room and allow for a custom front bumper to be higher up for better approach angles.

Nice sketch work.:eek:

I have ordered River Beasts rear shackle flip and it should arrive today. I'm not quite ready to install it as I'm still get parts.

Plans are to first swap out the T176/NP208 combo to a J20 T18a/NP208. Also have a line on a J10 rear 44 to use in place of the model 20.

I'm going to try and get away with drop pitman arm but if bumpsteer is too bad will hysteer the pass side knuckle.

Have some pics of the jeep posted here:
http://www.ofoto.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?UV=917476831323_78048857303&US=0&collid=97889102303

tigger . . did you get my e-mail?

Phil

Originally posted by Dive30
tigger . . did you get my e-mail?
Phil

Where did ya send it to?


That, and where the heck are my fawkin sketches:confused: They are just a couple a red X's now!?! :mad:

Originally posted by Panther
I have ordered River Beasts rear shackle flip and it should arrive today. I'm not quite ready to install it as I'm still get parts.

What all does his get-up consist of:question: I thought he was using some 4" lift spring kit.:confused: Did he start making some of his own extras or something?!?

Hey, where can I get some red Xs like that?

Originally posted by Gozuki
Hey, where can I get some red Xs like that?

Get about two inches from your monitor ...














now, throw your head forward reeeeeally hard and fast 3 or 4 times ...













:eek: ooooooppss!! those are stars yer seein' not Xs :D :flipoff2: ;)

Here's his page that describes it:
http://home.earthlink.net/~riverbeast/rear.htm

http://home.earthlink.net/~riverbeast/misc/shacklekits.jpg

my fsj page (http://members.tripod.com/scoutgrl/index.htm) lok at my 77 wagoneer and you'll see the way I did the soa. just click on the picture you want and it is detailed a little better. DENNIS