i did a soa on my cj5, now instead of buying a drop pitman arm, i got an xj pitman arm from the boneyard, does anyone know if they are indexed different, or is the new gear box i just bought rebuild wrong??

can someone please send me a picture or draw one of what your stock cj pitman arm looks like

I think they are the same as far as the location of the 4 indexing splines. The Jeep pitman arms do have their 4 indexing splines offset a little from center. I took a small triangular file and notched the center of the 4 splines to make it like all of the other splines so I could index my pitman arm on center. For some reason, the later model steering boxes are mounted at an angle so the indexing splines are offset.

Aggie, are you saying that the XJ pitman arm doesn't fit your box??
As far as i know it should. The reason for the indexing, is to compensate for the ackerman angle cast into the knuckle. I would not recommend filing it down to index it straight, this will cause you to turn a little bit more right than left. BUT, if you have a hi-steer setup, and your upper arm is at 0 ackerman angle, then centering the pitman arm would be the thing to do. How did you arrange your drag link? Hi-steer, or dropped drag link??

i put a new gear box on it last night, and i have an xj pitman arm from the boneyard, the drag link and tie rods are stock in the stock location, when i connected the drag link to the pitman arm the tires would barely turn to the right, and they would hit the springs turning left, i can't index it any because when i try to turn the pitman arm to line up the other big splines it is pointing directly at the left or right of the jeep, not towards the rear, i don't really want to spend any more money on this axle, because this summer i'm swapping in a 3/4 d44 and either 14-bolt or 60 rear, so i just ordered a drop pitman arm for a cj today

Originally posted by elf_cruiser
Aggie, are you saying that the XJ pitman arm doesn't fit your box??
As far as i know it should. The reason for the indexing, is to compensate for the ackerman angle cast into the knuckle.

I have never heard of this before. I don't see how it effects anything, but an explaination could change my mind. I thought ackerman had to do with steering arms, not pitman arms.

Aggielr.....
What did you change? You went from perfect steering with SUA and flat CJ pitman arm to SOA and XJ pitman arm?

Did you readjust the draglink and center the steering box input/output shaft before you installed the pitman arm?

ok, some details, i had flat pitman arm and sua stock, did soa and tried to put an xj pitman arm because it drops, but since the xj and cj pitman arms are clocked a little bit different it won't work, i compared the xj one to a stock cj one and its about 30 degrees or so off, so that would make it not be able to turn to the right, also if u look at a tj or xj the drag link goes into the tie rod instead of the knuckle like cj, so for this reason i'm guessin the pitman arm is clocked different, thats my only explanion so far

Aggie, your last post makes sense. All you can do right now, is thread the TRE's all the wayy out to make the drag link as long as possible. When you get your new pitman arm, in the mail just re-adjust them to center the steering wheel when the tires are centered.

As for the ackermann angle, i have not read this anywhere, but i designed my own steering geometry, and this is what i found. I had access to a TJ pitman arm for free, so i built the rest around the offset in that arm. A TJ(and i assume XJ) pitman arm is offset to the driver's side at steering wheel-center. This means that it will move less toward the driver's side, and more towards the passenger side, laterrally that is. This is because the arc starts towards the drivers side already. The only reason i could figure for this offset, is the ackerman angle at the knuckle. The steering box is perpendicular to the axle. SO, ackerman angle is a steering knuckle thing, and affects the tires through the tie-rod, but because the drag-link mounts to the tie-rod, the drag-link is also affected by this angle. The ackermann starts the knuckles arc a little toward the passenger side, so it will take less movement toward the passenger side, laterally to reach steering stop. And it will need more movement towards the drivers side laterally, to reach steering stop. This seems opposite of how the pitman arm is setup, until you factor in deflection of the drag link. It doesn't move laterally, both ends are swinging in arcs, so tthey designed the arcs to be opposite on each end of the drag-link, and offset each other.

anyways, i copied a TJ, and mine turns within a couple inches left and right at full wheel-lock. I dunno if that made any sense, but i would like to hear other thoughts on it. I wish some Jeep engineers would join this forum, we might get some straight answers about "why in the hell did they do THAT??!!!"

laters

yea, i agree with your thinkin on the ackerman angle, and i'm not sure if the tj(xj) box's sit at different angles in respect to the axle, forgot to look at that, but that may also play a part in it, i'm just goin to wait till the new one comes in, it should be here by friday, so i won't mess w/ the drag link till then, just ain't worth it