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View Full Version : Need some troublshooting help on the hydro system


robselina
05-22-2005, 05:07 PM
Well, I got the front suspension sussed out so the Scout came out of the garage today. The full hydro works, but it's got a few issues I'm concerned about. Here's a general run down on the system and the problems I'm having. Any advice appreciated....

I still have the 196 and it had manual steering stock so I've started out with all new parts. I'm running a PSC 2x8 ram (I know, probably should be a 2.5x8) and also the PSC 1405 hi-flow pump for full hydro applications. I'm using PSCs remote reservoir too. The steering valve is a Parker Haniff. All fluid lines were made at my local NAPA. All the joints at the valve and the ram are the swivel type.

The system 'works' but I'm having some issues with the pump. First, it makes a quite lot of noise...even if I'm not turning the wheel I can hear the pump running. When you do turn, it sounds like a PS pump that's low on fluid. I also I get some chirping and other sounds ocassionally. It looks like the pump is pulling forward in the engine bay and the belt is skipping (more on this later). Anyway, here are some pics for info purposes:

http://infohost.nmt.edu/~rselina/scout/scoutsteer1.JPG

In the above pic the thing worth noting is the reservoir, it protrudes out the hood. Based on where I had to mount the pump, this was the only way to get it up high.

Here's a shot from the drivers side showing the reservoir relative to the pump. The pump inlet is the big hose you can see comming out of the upper passenger side. It comes from the BOTTOM of the reservoir. That hose is sort of the 2nd high point and I"m not sure if I'm getting air trapped there or someting....

http://infohost.nmt.edu/~rselina/scout/scoutsteer2.JPG

Here's the same from the passenger side. My pump mount is proving inadequate and the pump seems to pull forward under load and then the belt slips (not much, but it does....). I think I'll have to build an upper side mount and run it back to some point on the block, haven't figured that out exactly yet....

http://infohost.nmt.edu/~rselina/scout/scoutsteer6.JPG

Here's a close up of the reservoir. It's puking fluid when I turn left (and the ram compresses). It's vented through the cap. I'm wondering if a sealed reservoir might work better?

http://infohost.nmt.edu/~rselina/scout/scoutsteer5.JPG

Just for completeness, here are a few other pics of the system. Here's the steering valve (The hoses are going to be routed out of the way later):

http://infohost.nmt.edu/~rselina/scout/scoutsteer3.JPG

And here's the ram (fluid is from the reservoir):

http://infohost.nmt.edu/~rselina/scout/scoutsteer4.JPG

And one more shot of the pump and reservoir:


http://infohost.nmt.edu/~rselina/scout/scoutsteer7.JPG

Okay, air in the system: I'm not positive I've got all the air out. Could it be that the pump noise is simply a little air? I filled the reservoir then turned the wheels by hand (front axle was on jacks). I kept toping up the reservoir while I did this. I then proceeded to do the same using the steering wheel. It started to give good response and not accept more fluid so I cranked the engine over. It did suck some more so I topped up the reservoir again and then cranked it over, then started it up. It pretty much stopped accepting fluid (and then started to puke it out when turning left) so I called it good....I'm 99% sure I don't have any leaks. The reservoir puking fluid is making it a little hard to tell on the ram, I MAY have a slight leak on the drivers side ram input but I'm pretty sure that was just fluid falling off the frame....


I'm thinking that the reservoir needs to be up higher relative to the pump (since the reservoir only runs 1/2 full most of the time), but before I start ordering more parts I thought I'd throw this out there...

Sorry for the long post on this one, didn't want to leave anything out. Any thoughts apprecaited...

robselina
05-22-2005, 05:14 PM
Okay, I'm a @#$#$ idiot. I have the reservoir plumbed in backwards. The outlet is on the SIDE, the bottom is the RETURN....


D'OH! :shaking:

Urban Wheeler
05-22-2005, 07:07 PM
Get that trans in yet?

robselina
05-22-2005, 08:26 PM
Get that trans in yet?


She's rebuilt and all pretty but hasn't made it in yet. Once I get the steering pump reservoir re-plumbed tomorrow I'll move on to the trans and clutch....

I'm hoping to take it wheeling next weekend....

Binder
05-22-2005, 08:43 PM
Also the orientation of the pump is going to make it trap air. The return line needs to be down lower in relation to the pump or maybe re rout the line so it doesn't slope downward from the pump.

robselina
05-23-2005, 08:34 PM
Also the orientation of the pump is going to make it trap air. The return line needs to be down lower in relation to the pump or maybe re rout the line so it doesn't slope downward from the pump.

I think the problem there is my hose routing not the pump orientation. I called PSC before I mounted it up and Tom said 11 o'clock is a good target to shoot for in terms of the return orientation.

I'm getting this hose replaced (couldn't find the right fittings to adapt it on the right way) so I'm going to see about getting a tighter 90 so it doesn't come up so high and also a more dirrect routing to the reservoir. Have to see what NAPA has....

mtroy
05-24-2005, 10:52 AM
That is a nice looking Scout. Just curious why the full hydro instead of just a hydro assist? It does not look like you are running that large a tire?

Just curious as I went to hydro assist on mine. Works pretty good for my needs.

robselina
05-24-2005, 11:00 AM
That is a nice looking Scout. Just curious why the full hydro instead of just a hydro assist? It does not look like you are running that large a tire?

Just curious as I went to hydro assist on mine. Works pretty good for my needs.

I have hydro assist on my Jeep, I like it just fine too. This thing had manual steering stock, so by the time I converted it to standard power steering and then tapped the box and did hydro assist, I figured it wouldn't be any harder to do full hydro (actually easier since the steering valve is easier to mount up than a PS box).

The problems I'm having right now relate to my pump and reservoir, which I'd be dealing with anyway....

Speaking of which, I can't get the fawkin air out of the system. It just keeps bubbling out the reservoir when I have the engine running. I can get all of it out the lower portion of the system, it seems to be collecting at the pump (like Binder mentioned). The obvious solution is to get the reservoir outlet above the return on the pump, but I can't move it up any higher :confused:

Insult to injury is that I backed out of the garage and forgot to lower the hood. the garage door pulled it down and folded the little foot dirrectly over the battery and shorted her out :mad3: Electrical system is dead now....

scoutrallye
05-27-2005, 09:42 PM
Hey Rob,
I have a very similiar set up on my Scout. 2"X8" ram. I know it is important that the return line(or the feed line) is 10AN and no longer than about 18"-20". I had to run it shut it off and loosen the ram fittings to let air out a bunch of times. It also took a whole day driving around Hollister to have it finally get quiet and start working well. The orientation of the res to the pump is not much different on mine than yours. Try going around and bleeding fluid out of the ram fittings and the valve fittings. LEt it sit with the cap off over night. I noticed mine was slowly bubbling for hours after I first set it up. - Sean

scoutrallye
05-27-2005, 09:49 PM
here is a picture of the valve and pump. I will try to get one of everything tomorrow.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/norcalmoto/buildup023.jpg

robselina
06-01-2005, 01:29 PM
Thanks Sean.

I've switched gears and pawned the scout off on my local mechanic. :D :shaking: He's working on swapping the trans which has turned out to be a real PITA.

I'm spending my time on my wagoneer right now...finishing up ball joints and a front end rebuild tonight, moving on to swapping out the auto tomorrow (after that it's mostly minor stuff...).

Anyway, when I get back to the Scout I'll start picking your brains again...Right now I'm thinking of getting an 8" reservoir (instead of the 6") and re-routing it with a much shorter hose (about 10" long, dirrect to the pump)...we'll see what happens...

robselina
06-01-2005, 03:55 PM
She's rebuilt and all pretty but hasn't made it in yet. Once I get the steering pump reservoir re-plumbed tomorrow I'll move on to the trans and clutch....

I'm hoping to take it wheeling next weekend....

Matt - thought you might like to know this just for reference sake:

- the splined input for the clutch is bigger than my stock one. I think you knew about that. Turns out there's a ford clutch that's the right dimmensions and will fit (I can get the NAPA part # if anyone cares). The throwout bearing has turned into a hard thing to find. Ended up settling on machining out the stocker to fit over the new input. Should have it back on monday (My machinist at work is out until Monday).

I 'think' that takes care of the tranny swap...