Extra Capacity 727 Tranny Pans

[Hooper]

Last Saturday, while out wheeling, one of the obstacles stands your rig on the tail. it is steep enough that all 5 of my tires were touching the ground at the same time. (My spare is on a swing away carrier on the tailgate)

At that angle, all my tranny fluid ran to the back of my tranny, and starved the tranny for fluid. Tranny cut out, completely.

So, to solve the problem, I am getting a higher capacity tranny pan.

There are several out there. Anyone have a recommendation for one that is better than another.

Also, several of them offer a spacer to lower the pickup tube depth. Why do I need this? The fluid level in the tranny itself (not in the pan) should remain the same once I add extra fluid to accomodate the deeper pan, and should be high enough for the pickup tube to be submerged. If I stand it on its tail, the fluid is now perpendicular to the axis of the tranny. The extra fluid that was in the deeper pan should now raise the fluid level in the vertical tranny above the pickup tube, right?

The top *image* is a tranny as it sits in the rig. Lower left is the tranny with stock pan, standing on end. Lower right is tranny with deeper pan, standing on end.

http://www.ihssii.org/Hooper/Images-Technical/TrannyFluidLevels.gif

[Joe V]

I remember pricing pans for a 727 at one time. I found that the best priced unit; which happens to come with an extended pickup, is at the Dodge dealer. It's steel, it's deep, it has a drain plug and even comes with a new filter and it worked well.

The aftermarket aluminum units where big bucks.

[Hooper]

Originally posted by Joe V
I remember pricing pans for a 727 at one time. I found that the best priced unit; which happens to come with an extended pickup, is at the Dodge dealer. It's steel, it's deep, it has a drain plug and even comes with a new filter and it worked well.

The aftermarket aluminum units where big bucks.

I certainly don't need an aluminum pan, or a fancy pan, or anything like that. Just a simple, deep capacity pan. I don't even think the ones with fins are a good idea. I think the fins would just cake with mud and junk and all that junk would further insulate the pan.

I also saw one that had holes running the length of the pan. Another fine spot to get clogged. Those probably work great for towing, etc, but not for a wheeling rig.

So, a dodge dealer, eh? Anything special about the pan for the IH TF 727?

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by Hooper

So, a dodge dealer, eh? Anything special about the pan for the IH TF 727?

Just make sure your driveshaft clears - but that shouldn't be a problem.

It IS a problem if you look for a 727 scatter shield...

Here, Pat.


Mopar Performance Pan (http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=%2Fproduct%2Easp%3Fd%3D15%26s%3 D260%26p%3D1008%26searchtype%3Decat) This lists as "extra capacity" and chrome. Doesn't say how much more.. but $46/$47

B&M Pan (http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=%2Fproduct%2Easp%3Fd%3D15%26s%3 D260%26p%3D220%26searchtype%3Decat) lists as 4-extra quarts, $137, finned aluminum.

or get the TCI Pan (http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=%2Fproduct%2Easp%3Fd%3D15%26s%3 D260%26p%3D1892%26searchtype%3Decat) - $114, holds 2 extra quarts, and is finned aluminum.

OTOH.. my T19 doesn't slip one bit at extreme angles...

edit:

I guess Summit doesn't like linking to products.. so head to http://www.summitracing.com and you'll find the pans spec'd above..

[Ben W]

You need the extended pickup so when you are a quart low, you are still sucking ATF rather than AIR.

[Joe V]

Originally posted by Hooper


Anything special about the pan for the IH TF 727?


No.

[Hooper]

Originally posted by Ben W
You need the extended pickup so when you are a quart low, you are still sucking ATF rather than AIR.

Or, I could make sure I am not a quart low... :)

Doesn't sound like the spacer/pickup is a big deal, I just don't like putting things on if I don't understand why they are there. :)

[Ben W]

Originally posted by Hooper


Or, I could make sure I am not a quart low... :)

Doesn't sound like the spacer/pickup is a big deal, I just don't like putting things on if I don't understand why they are there. :)

I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept to grasp. Why would you NOT want your pickup near the bottom of the pan where it belongs? Do you want the oil pickup in your engine oil pan a couple inches from the bottom of the pan? do you want the pickup in your Fuel tank a couple inches from the bottom of the tank?

[Hooper]

Originally posted by Ben W


I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept to grasp. Why would you NOT want your pickup near the bottom of the pan where it belongs? Do you want the oil pickup in your engine oil pan a couple inches from the bottom of the pan? do you want the pickup in your Fuel tank a couple inches from the bottom of the tank?

Cuz I have seen the junk on/near the bottom of trannies, and it ain't pretty!!! :)

Otherwise, no reason for the tube not to be near the bottom.

I'm bored, OK? Just looking at all the ramifications of this stuff.

Spent all morning arguing with a company vendor about why his stuff is useless and why I am not going to invest company money in something useless. All I got out of him was that he is selling millions of dollars worth of the stuff in the midwest, so it must work and must be useful. I asked him if the word Jeep meant anything to him, but he just gave me a blank look.....

[Ben W]

Originally posted by Hooper

All I got out of him was that he is selling millions of dollars worth of the stuff in the midwest, so it must work and must be useful. I
asked him if the word Jeep meant anything to him, but he just gave me a blank look.....

LOL :D

Isn't there a screen on the pickup? That will help avoid the junk in the bottom of the pan. You can't tell me that you've NEVER had your tranny low on fluid. Don't you want the piece of mind that comes with the ability to get home when you are maybe a quart or two low? Wouldn't it SUCK to be in the middle of nowhere, puncture a cooler line, loose 4 quarts of ATF before you realize it and only have 2 with you? And that 2 quarts is only enough to get you within 1/4" of the pickup. You're not going anywhere in that situation.

Also, I disagree with the picture you drew. Even though the pan holds more fluid, when you stand it on end, the volume that needs to be filled before fluid is up to the pickup is greater also, so you may or may not have enough fluid to reach the pickup. You would need to compare the volumes of the stock and extra capacity pans, and know the location of the pickup to calculate whether or not it would work.

Bottom line, I see NO disadvantages to the extended pickup, and at least 1 advantage.

[RustoleumWhite]

You forget ben.. your talking to "Mr. Stubborn"..


I argued with him LONG TIME that shocks were GOOD..... and he kept saying they weren't necessary off road, only limited travel, and were a "luxury" for on-road.... till he put some decent ones on..... now he wants his shock mount fixed....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Hooper]

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
You forget ben.. your talking to "Mr. Stubborn"..


I argued with him LONG TIME that shocks were GOOD..... and he kept saying they weren't necessary off road, only limited travel, and were a "luxury" for on-road.... till he put some decent ones on..... now he wants his shock mount fixed....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hey, stop it!!! I told you they were good for stopping spring oscillation!! :) BTW, where is your new buzz box, anyway. Home or work? :)

[Cliffy [JD]]

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
You forget ben.. your talking to "Mr. Stubborn"..


I argued with him LONG TIME that shocks were GOOD..... and he kept saying they weren't necessary off road, only limited travel, and were a "luxury" for on-road.... till he put some decent ones on..... now he wants his shock mount fixed....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I thought about going that route, naw, I like my ass and prefer to keep it non-callused:eek: :eek: BOING....BOING.....hehehe

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
You forget ben.. your talking to "Mr. Stubborn"..


I argued with him LONG TIME that shocks were GOOD..... and he kept saying they weren't necessary off road, only limited travel, and were a "luxury" for on-road.... till he put some decent ones on..... now he wants his shock mount fixed....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Let's not forget he's going to keep the Hooper Scout pristine - no trail riding, no damage, no modifications because it's a rare Scout and he needs to keep it nice.

No way Patty's ever going to do a Spring Over Axle to the Hooper Mobile.. nuh-uh.

:flipoff2:

[Hooper]

Originally posted by Ben W


LOL :D

Isn't there a screen on the pickup? That will help avoid the junk in the bottom of the pan. You can't tell me that you've NEVER had your tranny low on fluid. Don't you want the piece of mind that comes with the ability to get home when you are maybe a quart or two low? Wouldn't it SUCK to be in the middle of nowhere, puncture a cooler line, loose 4 quarts of ATF before you realize it and only have 2 with you? And that 2 quarts is only enough to get you within 1/4" of the pickup. You're not going anywhere in that situation.

Also, I disagree with the picture you drew. Even though the pan holds more fluid, when you stand it on end, the volume that needs to be filled before fluid is up to the pickup is greater also, so you may or may not have enough fluid to reach the pickup. You would need to compare the volumes of the stock and extra capacity pans, and know the location of the pickup to calculate whether or not it would work.

Bottom line, I see NO disadvantages to the extended pickup, and at least 1 advantage.

Screen, no, filter, yes. Any junk has to get through the filter before it gets to the tranny. But, feeding from that close to the bottom pulls sludge and junk into the filter and will clog it sooner. Kind of. Maybe. Who knows.

All right, all right. The pickup tube is a good idea. Sheesh. I give in. At least it gave us something to talk about. :)

But, I carry extra tranny fluid, just in case, anyway. I think I have three quarts in there right now. I used to go through the stuff like my truck was drinking it. Not losing any right now.

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by Hooper


Screen, no, filter, yes. Any junk has to get through the filter before it gets to the tranny. But, feeding from that close to the bottom pulls sludge and junk into the filter and will clog it sooner. Kind of. Maybe. Who knows.

All right, all right. The pickup tube is a good idea. Sheesh. I give in. At least it gave us something to talk about. :)


Just a suggestion, but.. if there's that much sludge in your transmission, you need to flush it!!

and/or find a new tranny shop. :D

[makkat]

Originally posted by Ben W


LOL :D

Isn't there a screen on the pickup?

Both the Mopar pan and the TCI pan come with a washable/re-usable filter screen that works better than the standard "paper" replacement.