Ok question
When you guys go for SPOA don't you find that you get way strange weight shift when climbing ledges etc. Surely the back wheels will tend to walk under the car rather than put down full traction. In addition you have to worry about axle wrap, spring sag, relocated brake lines, shock mounts, steering issues etc all to run 33s. From what I've seen of them working on the trail they do articulate heaps and they do the job but seem to get a bit scary with the weight transfer issue.
i am running 34" tyres with a 2" body lift, 2" Olm Man Emu springs and some fender trimming, yet it is very stable, don't have any axle wrap, steering etc problems.
I'm not trying to stir up trouble or anything just asking the question is SPOA the way to go or stay SPUA and do some trimming?

let's all play nicely

I wrapped a few sets of rear springs until I finally got to play with a traction bar. It made everything more 'solid' feeling. The drooped rear wheel (when I twist it up) still comes forward a bit, but you learn to use it to your advantage in tight rock formations.

Spoa in my o2 is well worth the time and effort as long as your thought process is well planned for every question you ask someone will tell you how to overcome that problem and after 16 years of building and wheelin trucks Ive seen alot of half hazard rigs SPOA and SPU but inorder to get the best offroad capabilities
SPOA is the only way when done correctly just make a plan and stick to it.

ROCKRAT:smokin: :smokin:

i agree with rockrat, SPOA is the best thing, its an easy 5-6" of lift and there is nothing better off-road.......

And i'd like t take this time to say........
WELCOME NEWBIE:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:







:flipoff2:

Hell I still drive my 6.5" lifted sami like it was a sports car. I'm running 33's on 8" rims. I have no problem pulling an intersection left hand turn at 25-30 mph. Of course I also have the attitude "if I roll Oh Well" I've never felt like it was too tipsy off-road either. When I did my SPOA I used longer brake lines, longer shocks, steering correction and such. SPOA is the only way to off-road.

But then there is my wifes sami, 3" Nationals SPUA. It doesn't go off-road all that often though.

Originally posted by grimbo
Ok question
When you guys go for SPOA don't you find that you get way strange weight shift when climbing ledges etc. Surely the back wheels will tend to walk under the car rather than put down full traction. In addition you have to worry about axle wrap, spring sag, relocated brake lines, shock mounts, steering issues etc all to run 33s. From what I've seen of them working on the trail they do articulate heaps and they do the job but seem to get a bit scary with the weight transfer issue.
i am running 34" tyres with a 2" body lift, 2" Olm Man Emu springs and some fender trimming, yet it is very stable, don't have any axle wrap, steering etc problems.
I'm not trying to stir up trouble or anything just asking the question is SPOA the way to go or stay SPUA and do some trimming?

let's all play nicely



i think articulation and weight transfer kinda go hand in hand, so to speak. it makes sense that the less articulation you have, the less weight transfer/body roll etc. whatever you want to call it.

but i think *most* would agree that one of the best things for rock crawling centres around better articulation.

formula one cars have virtually nil weight transfer due to virtually nil articulation.
motocross bikes have major weight transfer but nuclear articulation

i personally recognised that my vehicle would handle less adroitly when on pavement, with the removal of sway bar and addition of spoa etc. but it is worth it for the gains i believe i got at slow speeds off road, which is why i bought it in the first place.

i think it's a balance issue.(no pun intended) i'm sure you can have TOO much articulation, despite what some may say-(but that's another story unto itself....) but i'm even MORE sure that if you don't have ENOUGH articulation, it's prohibitive for rock crawling enjoyment.

a plus that i didn't realize i would benefit soooo much from, was the smoother ride, on or off road.
usually with light vehicles like Samurais, if you have a spring under with any kind of taller springs installed, they ride like tanks because of the higher arch makes for a harsher rate.

if you have a taller (deeper arch) spring with the SAME rate as the stock ones, then you can still have eventual sag, so you have not really gained over the "spoa detraction" of sag.
potentially higher rate springs can *feel* softer because of the greater leverage produced by the nature of the spoa configuration, and vastly reduce the potential of sag.

with open diffs, if i can *just* keep the tires on a surface, i have a hope of climbing something.
if i had less articulation, one of those crucial tires could be up off the ground, rendering me dead in the water for lack of traction.
with welded diffs, but steel i-beams for "shocks" and "springs" you could probably crawl some things and have zero transfer, but i don't think you'd be better off.

(have i seen pics of your rig with major air under a tire but the hole wasn't that big? to me i'd rather have that tire lower to the ground, with less worry about the entire vehicle going over...)

this last bit is DEFINATELY not meant as a slur on ya of any kind, and obviously i'm hyperbolizing my arguments, i know nothing really, just IMHO.:) :beer:

Yes there is a shot of my rig with heaps of air under a wheel on a slight incline (I posed for the shot, just drove through it, the photo makes it look a bit worse than it was) i unfortunatley had the problem (now fixed) of the rear tires fouling on the chassis which stuffed my articulation up.
I am just curious about the pros/cons for each that's all On my next project I'm thinking about a SPOA

I am only going by what i have seen here in Australia and the couple of SPOA suzis i have seen have been downright scary on abstacles that I have cruised up. But @ Moab a couple of years ago I also saw some SPOA that kicked.

If you have checked out my site before you probably know I have had a ton of different spring configs under my rig. The most stable configs were the ones where both front and rear flex were close to being equal. Right now I could get more flex out of the front by getting a longer driveshaft, but it's balanced pretty good as is. Of all the lifts I have done the spring over variations always rode better and articulated better.

It's really easy to just do some bolt on's and do some cutting and it's really easy to do a SOA badly. However if the SOA is done right it can be awsome! I guess if SUA cuts it for ya stick with it.:)

Grimbo,

Before you go and state that every SPOA that you have seen in Australia sucks, you should perhaps realise that the several zuks in your club do not necessarily represent the average for the whole country. :flipoff2:

I personally have seen/been in/driven 20+ sierras in Australia that are SPOA, and most have been well done and completely safe, not to mention that these SPOA rigs consistently and drastically outperform SPUA rigs in most regards.

Its a well known fact that you Victorian guys are pretty softcore relatively speaking, so maybe your SPUA is great for that sort of thing, but I know that us NSW and QLD guys will gladly choose to SPOA our rigs, or maybe even coil or QE it.

I'm happy to play nicely provided that you don't go and misrepresent our country as a bunch of softcocks who don't perform modifications in a safe and legal manner.:flipoff2:

Originally posted by fatkid
It's really easy to just do some bolt on's and do some cutting and it's really easy to do a SOA badly. However if the SOA is done right it can be awsome! I guess if SUA cuts it for ya stick with it.:)

As someone who hopes to be picking up a Samurai shortly and plans on a SPOA on it quickly can you expand on this a bit? I'm no engineer when it comes to this stuff so I want to make sure I don't screw it all up

Hey Zookymatt I said let's play nice

I don't know what post you were reading but I never said that every SPOA in Australia sucks but said the couple I have seen on obstacles that I was doing have been scary in the way they tackle the obstacle, nothing more than that.

As to softcore /hardcore have you ever driven in Victoria or had any experience with Victorian drivers. Granted you have different terrain but don't go calling us Softcore without any justification

And you last point about me saying that Australians are softcocks with poor modifications is so far of base I don't know what you were on

I made this whole inquiry to just get some thoughts about SPOAs not to hang s#@t on anyones rig etc but it seems some people take things way too personally

(QUOTE)Zookymatt
Newbie

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Sydney, Australia
Member #10338
Posts: 1 POST WONDER(/QUOTE)






Hey grimbo we all new what you meant and understood, besides
look at it this way some poeple read and understand others cant seem to get there head out of there ass long enough to comprehend I saw this post late last night and wanted to stand up for what you wrote but thought you might want first dibs I and others around here compliment what you have brought to the
board and the way you have presented yourself. Dont get steemed over, some one lets say probably knows softcock first hand. Rock on ROCKRAT :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:

Cheers Rockrat

I didn't want things to get out of hand or personal like i've seen on other boards/threads the forums are for intelligent exchange of ideas etc.

Right on just thought it was time to nip that one in the bud.

I do see Grimbo's point on this one.

The main reason I wont do a SPOA is that it's just not legal in QLD. If you do end up going SPOA Grimbo I think you will need to increase your track width to maintain stability.

If you want to do it purely for extra articulation i'd suggest looking at some other way.