Just starting to get some more info on this swap. Looking for 4.88 gears and ARB's front and rear. For those who have done this, what parts did you use? Newfields or Longfields? Custom axles?

Cost for parts would be good too.

Thanks,

James

Just starting to get some more info on this swap. Looking for 4.88 gears and ARB's front and rear. For those who have done this, what parts did you use? Newfields or Longfields? Custom axles?

Cost for parts would be good too.

Thanks,

James

Wait, you mean to tell me people use TOYOTA axles on Rovers? No way -- we've never had anyone post about that before....and I hit that search button just to make sure!

Oh wait, we have had hundreds of posts about that very issue...maybe you should hit the search button....

:shaking: :shaking:

:flipoff2:

If you can't answer the question, don't post. :flipoff2: I have searched and found some different ways of going about it. Just looking for what works best.


Larry G and Disco Dino, how is your shit holding up?

The usual way down under is to use a hilux center in the rear and l/cruiser 80 series high pinion front or bundera center to clear the drag rod. Use a lux 3rd gasket as the template and drill new holes i think 11 or 12mm, then reuse the rover studs and enlarge 3rd holes to suit. My mate has 4.5's with arb lockers and jacmac axles and longfield cv's. With the 3.5 and torqueflite it will crawl over anything. Axles were about 1100- $1200 aud plus drive flanges, machining (hubs and spindles need to be opened up to 32mm), and new bush for cv's. There are a few guys here with 5 and 5.7 ltr engines in their rangies and they have no problems.

Front:
Hi-Pinion FJ80 front 3rd housing
Ring & Pinion of choice (4.1-4.88 seem most common to use)
RD 23 (ARB, that's all I know)
Longfielded 30 spliners (birfs)
Rover Tracks 30 spliers (axles)
Rebored spindles with Toy bronze bushing
Rebored CV hosuing units (those chrome balls)
(I may have forgotten something)

Rear:
Rear 4-runner V6 3rd housing
Ring & Pinion to match the front
RD 23
Rovertracks 30 spliners
Rebore rear spindles
(I may have forgotten something)

Enjoy...

That's what I needed, thanks. Does the RD 23 ARB locker fit in both the 80 3rd and V6 3rd? I would've guessed that you need the ARB locker number that matches up with the 80.

Any reason not to go with the e-locker? $885 for the complete housing with e-locker sounds good.

The RD 23 was the part number for the above mentioned diffs for me - I used ARB as it is widely available globally - + I got a great deal on them :)

I used ARB as it is widely available globally - + I got a great deal on them :)

I am still kicking my ass for not going ahead and buying the ARBs for may Sals before deploying. Was quoted 1100$ for the pair, NIB. Looking at around 1600 now. :mad3:

What about drive flanges? also Rovertracks? Driveshafts--I assume a driveshaft shop can weld a toy flange on a rover shaft with minimal fuss...

I'm suddenly finding myself contemplating this swap since I blew up a set of 4.1 gears yesterday, taking out my rear driveshaft an possibly my detroit.


Front:
Hi-Pinion FJ80 front 3rd housing
Ring & Pinion of choice (4.1-4.88 seem most common to use)
RD 23 (ARB, that's all I know)
Longfielded 30 spliners (birfs)
Rover Tracks 30 spliers (axles)
Rebored spindles with Toy bronze bushing
Rebored CV hosuing units (those chrome balls)
(I may have forgotten something)

Rear:
Rear 4-runner V6 3rd housing
Ring & Pinion to match the front
RD 23
Rovertracks 30 spliners
Rebore rear spindles
(I may have forgotten something)

Enjoy...

DiscoDino pretty much got it all. He did forget the drive flanges and Keith has those. For driveshaft I just took my front and rear driveshafts down to the shop and had them change the diff end flange to a Toy style. Bolted right up. ARB RD23 lockers fit both the FJ80 front and V6 rear 3rds. If you go 4 cyl rears then I think the locker is different. I think the bearings are slightly smaller.

Everything holds up great. Short of completely swapping out to different housings I think this is the strongest option available.

thanks for the reply. search is down and I'm sick of looking through all the old posts the old fashioned way, although I did find your original writeup.

How much do the spindles have to be bored out, and is this an issue with the new style spindles with the flat on them (mine is a 98)? Got a part # for the bronze bushing for the font axle? (rovertracks again?) No bronze bushing for the rear spindles, or did Nadim leave this off?

How much has to be bored out from the swivels? (note to self--sounds like a good time to get the euro knuckle for a possible future move of the tie rod to the front axle--anyone know a source for these in the US?)

and finally, the $64,000 question--toy elockers. This is appealing to me, as it seems like it would be the less expensive option vs. ARBs, and should be reliable with the downey cable shifter conversion... I know these did not come from the factory with gears lower than 4.56, but there is no reason they won't work with 4.88 or lower, correct?

Speaking of lower, I wonder how 5.29s would hold up to a 5000# disco and a not so kind driver? This is a trail only rig, so high road RPMs do not matter.

Thanks in advance--as I mentioned previously my GBR 4.11 gears are lunched, and I don't want to put another set in there just to watch $500 or whatever they cost go up in smoke (or shrapnel in this case). I want to get my truck back out on the trails before the summer slips by me!!

I will be giving Rovertracks a call tomorrow for sure. Need to get this going ASAP.

E-lockers are the way to go. Everything in one neat reliable package. Look at the abuse Dino and LWG are putting to them. I’ve got a pair in my Series and they’re great.

If 4:56 isn’t too tall, I’ve got a brand new one sitting in the box I’d sell. A second one from Toyota and you’re done cheap. Marlin Crawler has them in 4:88 and 5:29 if you need them that low but they get $1300 a pop!

Jim

Info on the diffs in my truck (http://seriestrek.com/toyotadiffs.html)

Are you saying that the elockers are not compatible with gears lower than 4.56? That would certainly be an improvement over the 4.11s I have been running but I had been hoping to go lower... Although I don't know if it will be worth it to drop an extra $1200+ on a pair of ARBs...

Also--how do the elockers hold up to being dunked in mud and water--as much as I try to avoid the stuff, here in the Midwest its just not possible, and everything gets wet and muddy nearly every outing.


Also, another question for you guys runing the toy stuff in RRC/D1--are you running a stock front driveshaft, or a DC shaft? I am considering getting rid of my big, heavy DDC front shaft and going back to stock. I originally got it to get rid of driveline vibes on the highway, but since that is no longer an issue I figure the stocker will hold up fine.

E-lockers are the way to go. Everything in one neat reliable package. Look at the abuse Dino and LWG are putting to them. I’ve got a pair in my Series and they’re great.

If 4:56 isn’t too tall, I’ve got a brand new one sitting in the box I’d sell. A second one from Toyota and you’re done cheap. Marlin Crawler has them in 4:88 and 5:29 if you need them that low but they get $1300 a pop!

Jim

Info on the diffs in my truck (http://seriestrek.com/toyotadiffs.html)

No, you can go to a 4:88 or a 5:29...It's just that 4:56 are the lowest the E-lockers come from the factory and as such, a cheap way out. $1100 list price and if you have a buddy at a dealer, cost is around $625.

Yeah, I forgot the flanges for the driveshafts...these were taken out (the Toy Flanges) and drilled to take the Rover stock driveshaft...nice and easy :)

I'll be going with 42s soon, so I'll let you know how that's gonna last...

I'll be going with 42s soon, so I'll let you know how that's gonna last...
I'll let you know now....

I'll let you know now....

Well, I'm working on getting the truck ULTRA light (insanely so...)...+ the fact that the engine will be pumping ~240hp, so this should be a good way to save these...During Comps I'll run 37s.

I wouldn't go much lower than 4.88's. My truck has a pretty good crawl ratio now with these. I can't drive over about 70 MPH on the highway with 4.88's and 37's. If I were doing it again I would probably go with 4.56's simply because I don't always want to trailer it here in Colorado.

The Toy e-locker is an option. I didn't want to have to fawk with some more wiring and since I was "plumbed" for ARB's I just went that route. It probably cost about $400 more but I figured time would be against me if I added something else to my list of "to do's" before the Chili Challenge.

Regarding strength I am constantly turning full lock up against a sheer face and climbing it without any problems. I am convinced that I probably won't have any problems. And if I do I can pick up two new 30-spline Super Longfield CV's for about $215 each. Regarding the bushing I think Keith is the only one making them stateside right now. He literally turns them out on his lathe in his shop. Unfortunately they aren't very cheap, but that's primarily due to the material used for them. These are only needed in the front and act as a spacer to keep the CV-joint centered in the swivel ball. Also I have the "flat" spindles on my truck and they are fine. It gets pretty thin on the flat spot but no problems yet.

In short, unless you have the patience to figure out all the specs fot the axle length, machining for spindles, swivels and can machine the "brass bushing" I would give Keith a call. He is still trying to get this together as a "kit" and the more interest there is the more likely he will "git-r-done" sooner.

Well, I'm working on getting the truck ULTRA light (insanely so...)...+ the fact that the engine will be pumping ~240hp, so this should be a good way to save these...During Comps I'll run 37s.

Ultra light Land Rover :rolleyes: What exactly are you cutting off this thing! I thought mine would be considered an Ultra-Light Range Rover as it weighs in at about 5200 lbs. I think it will be losing another 200 lbs soon with some new front and rear bumpers...

I'll be going with 42s soon, so I'll let you know how that's gonna last...

Wanna race? :flipoff2:

I'm aiming at <2T (i.e. <4,400lbs)...

I'm aiming at <2T (i.e. <4,400lbs)...

Wow, that's pretty light. So you probaby shaving the roof, bobbing, removing anything not needed from the interior... I think if I bobbed & removed the roof on mine I would probably lose a few hundred pounds. But the addition of a Roll Cage my add a few hundred, so I probaly wouldn't gain anything except transfer the weight upwards.

Instead of "building up" a rover housing to fit Toyota components, could you just fit the Toyota housing on the rover? I have not measured anything yet, but it's seems the housings are very similar (up front).

If that would work, it seems that would be the way to go. Just cut and weld the mounts/perches, and re-route your steering links....

Instead of "building up" a rover housing to fit Toyota components, could you just fit the Toyota housing on the rover? I have not measured anything yet, but it's seems the housings are very similar (up front).

If that would work, it seems that would be the way to go. Just cut and weld the mounts/perches, and re-route your steering links....

Well I suppose you could. The axles are different widths and you would have to run Toy lug patterns, plus there's the issue of brakes... Probably the same amount of work in the end.

Instead of "building up" a rover housing to fit Toyota components, could you just fit the Toyota housing on the rover? I have not measured anything yet, but it's seems the housings are very similar (up front).

If that would work, it seems that would be the way to go. Just cut and weld the mounts/perches, and re-route your steering links....

The fzj-80 stuff is about the same dimensionally as the rover stuff.

what did you wind up paying for the diffs if you don't mind me asking? I mean complete--housings, gears, lockers. I am finding myself with major sticker shock on these things--$3k for two third members with ARBs and 4.88s, and that's with used housings. A little cheaper with elockers, but more work modifying the housing, and with the necessary gear to actually operate the things it starts to get within a couple hundred of the ARBs. Another concern is electric components way down there getting dunked in midwest mud and water all the time, not to mention the bashability of a motor mounted on the third.

I wouldn't go much lower than 4.88's. My truck has a pretty good crawl ratio now with these. I can't drive over about 70 MPH on the highway with 4.88's and 37's. If I were doing it again I would probably go with 4.56's simply because I don't always want to trailer it here in Colorado.

The Toy e-locker is an option. I didn't want to have to fawk with some more wiring and since I was "plumbed" for ARB's I just went that route. It probably cost about $400 more but I figured time would be against me if I added something else to my list of "to do's" before the Chili Challenge.

Regarding strength I am constantly turning full lock up against a sheer face and climbing it without any problems. I am convinced that I probably won't have any problems. And if I do I can pick up two new 30-spline Super Longfield CV's for about $215 each. Regarding the bushing I think Keith is the only one making them stateside right now. He literally turns them out on his lathe in his shop. Unfortunately they aren't very cheap, but that's primarily due to the material used for them. These are only needed in the front and act as a spacer to keep the CV-joint centered in the swivel ball. Also I have the "flat" spindles on my truck and they are fine. It gets pretty thin on the flat spot but no problems yet.

In short, unless you have the patience to figure out all the specs fot the axle length, machining for spindles, swivels and can machine the "brass bushing" I would give Keith a call. He is still trying to get this together as a "kit" and the more interest there is the more likely he will "git-r-done" sooner.

go to www.inchwormgear.com as this is where I bought mine. Cheapest prices around. It looks like your diffs will run around $3100. The FJ80 high pinion front is the killer. I think I got everything for around $2800 through inchworm. I had a few low price quotes and he price matched them.

Yeah, I forgot the flanges for the driveshafts...these were taken out (the Toy Flanges) and drilled to take the Rover stock driveshaft...nice and easy :)

I'll be going with 42s soon, so I'll let you know how that's gonna last...

Yes,

Let us know. I thought I would be pushing it with a lighter truck, less HP, and 39's on Dana 60s.

That's where I got my pricing too. Jim (the owner) sounds like a nice guy.

Pricy as it is, I guess its the most cost effective option anyway. Throwing another GBR gearset in there is just throwing good $$$ after bad...


go to www.inchwormgear.com as this is where I bought mine. Cheapest prices around. It looks like your diffs will run around $3100. The FJ80 high pinion front is the killer. I think I got everything for around $2800 through inchworm. I had a few low price quotes and he price matched them.

Wow, that's pretty light. So you probaby shaving the roof, bobbing, removing anything not needed from the interior... I think if I bobbed & removed the roof on mine I would probably lose a few hundred pounds. But the addition of a Roll Cage my add a few hundred, so I probaly wouldn't gain anything except transfer the weight upwards.

I have already gutten the inside with EVERYTHING, except the dash, which is going to be ditched too in July. The cage does weigh in, but is essential. I'll be chopping up the rear section of the body as well, remaining as a 4 door, but with a rear pick-up section, everything un-necessary has been taken out, the exhaust has been much lightened (straight pipe), going with alum beadlocks, and ultimately air shocks to ditch the springs/shocks/mounts...the seats are already in there, they are the plastic Baja ones from summit, winch rope, alum fairlead...etc...Fiberglass hood is next, I'm flirting with the idea of front fiberglass fenders (boating in Lebanon is big)...

Dino, why not go full pickup (ie 3 door)? You'll save more weight then. You don't neccessary need to change the body as a guy I know has done a 4 door bobtailed pickup and he uses the rear doors to access the sides of the rear tub:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/will_warne/IMG_2605.jpg

Sorry I can't find a better photo at the moment but I'll have a hunt arround later.

Thought about that, however, I'd like to keep some inside storage area...my second truck is a D90 Soft Top, so I need something that may accomodate things in the back (maybe my kids :))

Will, are those Defender mirrors? I just ripped off the stock passenger side mirror and have been thinking about what would be a good replacement.

BTW, that Rangie is sweet!

For those of you with the toyo swap, if you were only going to run a 35, would you go 4.56 or 4.88? Is one stronger than the other? Also, if you were to order the complete diff from inchworm, would you run the stock toyota r&p or swap out to a yukon r&p? It almost seems cheaper to get the 3rds with 4.10 and put in Yukon 4.56 or 4.88 than paying an additional $420 to upgrade to 4.56 or 4.88 gearing from inchworm. What do you think?

not cheaper if you buy a stock third and have to put in an ARB. Maybe cheaper if you get the elocker third, and can set up your own gears. Its expensive, and that sucks. It still seems to be the most cost effective option....after this its a swap to a different axle housing altogether.

The taller the gears, the stronger they SHOULD be. Personally, I'm going for 4.88s, and I am currently running 35s, but I am planning on going up in tire size eventually.

I’m running a Series truck with 31s and all of 65 diesel horses…Not really a good comparison to you guys, but for what it’s worth I’m running 4:56s.

RT, if you’re worried about the cost, the cheapest, best way out is to get a factory set-up V6 E-locker with 4:56s and a high-pinion E-locker re-geared to match the rear. Even if you decide to buy a Yukon R&P and re-gear them yourself you’ve got $200 worth of gear, an install kit or at least a new crush collar and seal so at best you’re saving $150.00. It’s not worth the peace of mind of having a pro set it up. The difference between 4:56s and 4:88s is only 6.6%.

E-lockers from Inchworm at 4:56:
Rear: $885
Front: $1305
You’re out of it for under $2200

Start buying open diffs, re-gearing them and then throw an ARB (at $750 a piece) at them and you’ll end up spending a good deal more.

A little easy wiring, a couple of switches and you’re done. If you’re worried about bashing the motor, Inchworm has a guard for $75.00. I can’t see why anyone would bother installing an ARB in an open diff when these things are ready to go out of the box.


My .02

For those of you with the toyo swap, if you were only going to run a 35, would you go 4.56 or 4.88? Is one stronger than the other? Also, if you were to order the complete diff from inchworm, would you run the stock toyota r&p or swap out to a yukon r&p? It almost seems cheaper to get the 3rds with 4.10 and put in Yukon 4.56 or 4.88 than paying an additional $420 to upgrade to 4.56 or 4.88 gearing from inchworm. What do you think?

Back when I ran Rover drivetrain and 35's I was running 4.10's. The speedo was dead on. Soooo, I think if I were running 35's I would go with 4.56 gears. In fact if I were to do mine again I think I would switch from the 4.88's to 4.56. 4.88 is just too low for any street driving.

Regarding whether to use stock 4.88 or aftermarket. Go aftermarket all the way. The stock Toy gearset are very hard and built for long street life, thus they are brittle and break easier. The aftermarket like Yukon or Precision are softer and won't break as easy. I went with Yukon front and rear. If you can get Precision do it. It is generally believed that Precision gears are the best. Sometimes they are more difficult to find though.