I know some people may not like this topic, but if I knew that some of my $20 membership fee was going to fight those eco-bastards I would join in a mouse's heart beat.

Lance, I know it takes a lot of money to run the board, so maybe you could just keep what you needed and donate the rest to various 4x4-friendly charity funds, like this Rubicon dealy going on right now?

Just and idea. I would have a red star by my name as soon as a declaration of this sort was made. Then POR could honestly say that it was leading the way for a more friendly 4x4 world, and maybe some other sites/clubs would join in on the action!

J. J.

So... you'll support the fight to keep our trails open, but not Pirate4x4.com?

Here we go again.

The Pirates of the Rubicon club does a lot to benefit our sport. They sponsor a huge cleanup on the Rubicon trail every year. They worth with local land management to keep the land open for others. They work with other local organizations to fight land closures.

Where you specific dollars go is not as important as knowing that there are organizations such as the Pirates of the Rubicon, pirate4x4.com and others who help fight the good fight.

That said, both are privately owned organizations. What they do with their money is none of your business. I'm a moderator here, and I don't know what happens to all the money. Not my problem. I do belive that I am helping with the donation of my $20 though.

it costs way more than lance gets in donations to keep this site running, there aren't that many people who donate, but there are over 10000 users, and ungodly amounts of bandwidth used by this site. We use more than every other site at our co-location site COMBINED!

edit, from one of lances posts on the topic:
We currently get 4+ MILLION page views per month, and several hundered GIGABYTES of data transfer each month.

red star money does indirectly keep the trails open. It keeps me working/running this site, which in turn is a medium that helps keep trails open (this site is where orgs like FOTR were formed, etc). So if this isn't enough for you, donate your $20. to Blue Ribbion Coalition, or something.

Originally posted by Lance
red star money does indirectly keep the trails open. It keeps me working/running this site, which in turn is a medium that helps keep trails open (this site is where orgs like FOTR were formed, etc). So if this isn't enough for you, donate your $20. to Blue Ribbion Coalition, or something.

Well put Lance. I can't BELIEVE $20 is such a big deal to some folks :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Yota-San
So... you'll support the fight to keep our trails open, but not Pirate4x4.com?

Basically . . . yes. Because Pirate4x4.com isn't about to close down due to lack of funds, at least that I'm aware of, and the trails are.

Originally posted by Mo
Where you specific dollars go is not as important as knowing that there are organizations such as the Pirates of the Rubicon, pirate4x4.com and others who help fight the good fight.


Maybe you don't care where your money is going, but I DO. By your logic, I could be flushing dollars down the toilet but if it made me aware that there are organizations that need it that's fine.

Originally posted by CrazyHorse
it costs way more than lance gets in donations to keep this site running

How would you know that? I don't know of any income statistics that have been released about how many members have paid.

Yes, it is true that this is a privately owned site and that Lance doesn't need to report anything to anyone. (Besides the IRS. :) ) It is also true that I don't have to pay and unless I know what exactly my money is doing. I'm not going to give it to some random person on the internet who will be doing the same thing with or without the money. If I knew that my money was going to causes that I wanted it to I would pay. That's all I was saying. I garuntee you that, if I contact blue ribbon or one of those organizations, and asked how they would rather have my money, they would jump all over my moola.

Originally posted by Lance
red star money does indirectly keep the trails open. It keeps me working/running this site, which in turn is a medium that helps keep trails open (this site is where orgs like FOTR were formed, etc). So if this isn't enough for you, donate your $20. to Blue Ribbion Coalition, or something.

I appreciate what you do for the 4x4 community, Lance. I was merely trying to suggest a way that you might possibly do more while still increasing paying members while, raising awareness about the organizations that we speak of, AND helping them financially. If you feel that raising awareness in and of itself is all you can do, you are doing your part. I just thought it might be possibe to do more for everyone while still achieving your end goals.

J. J.

Originally posted by wngrog


Well put Lance. I can't BELIEVE $20 is such a big deal to some folks :rolleyes:

Any amount of money is a big deal to me because I'm POOR. If you can't appreciate that, that is fine. Just don't point out to everybody how blind you are about it. :cool:

I didn't start this thread to bitch about the $20 like you are. I started it to suggest a way that the $20 might help out more people at once. If half the people on the board paid and half of that was donated, it would be a fat-ass check for $50k. Who here wouldn't like to have that big smile on their face when Lance presented a check like that to fight those eco-nazis?

J. J.

If its such a big deal why dont you donate $20 to both P4x4 and blue ribbon. its just $20 stop whining about it.

Dallas

I'll get my damn star as soon as I get outta all this debt from buying Jeep parts :eek:

I think everybody should cough up $500 to Blue Ribbon. That's about what you spend on renting movies every year, so suck it up.

-J

If you're poor, then you're in the *wrong* hobby, dude, you should take up bird watching or jogging or something else. Seriously, how can people bitch about $20 a year? That's under $2 a month, how much do you spend on cigarrettes or beer or friggin' burgers every month? If you can't spend $20 a year on this *and* donate another $20 (or whatever you can afford) to an organization fighting to keep trail access, then again, you're not in the right hobby...you're going to tell me that you don't break stuff when you wheel?

I see my $20 donation as an operating fee, one which gives me access to a lot of information that has already saved me a lot more than the $20 I donated in the first place. Yes, *free* would be ideal, but reality being what it is, I don't think the $20 is out of line.

Whether a substantial number of members will eventually donate, enough to make this BBB a profitable enterprise for Lance and the other guys putting in their hours remains to seen. If it does, and Lance starts making big $$$, then good for him, I don't have a problem with that, everyone's gotta find their source of income and after all, this is America, I'm all for capitalism. As long as I continue to feel that my $20 is a good value for the information that I have access to, I will continue to pay, regardless of whether Lance is still struggling or arriving at CALROC's in his own helicopter. Nuff said....

Some people seem to be COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT OF THIS THREAD. If I wanted another thread where people bitched about other people being poor, I would have made the topic, "Please bitch at me. I am poor." Instead, I am trying to suggest a viable option, in my opinion, to do more for the 4x4 community other than bitch.

It seems that, since this board is 10000 strong, we should be able to do more than merely raise awareness. If 10000 isn't enough to directly raise money for the organizations that we care about how are individuals stronger? The reason that the eco-freaks seem to be slowly winning this war is because they can get their shit together and fight as a unitized group. Part of our problem is that we have so many bitches who are more willing to sit around on their asses and moan about someone wanting to do something. This thread isn't about, "Why I don't want to pay $20 to get something that I can get for free." It is about, "Why are we sitting on our asses when we are the biggest, baddest off-road club in the world?"

If you can think of a good reason that 10000 people in the same BBS are incabable of doing anything besides raising awareness I will respectfully withdraw my suggestion as a fantasy that just couldn't come true. But I think that, with a membership base as large as this one, we could raise a lot of money in a direct way that would help our cause more than just raising awareness.

J. J.

Lance
please let me know where to send my check!!!!
I will gladly give 20 for the cause!

yea there are 10k members registered, but i am registered twice, when chit chat went haywire i got lost in the fold or some thing of that sort. how many came and left in a week, month or year. i bet there is less than 2k active but i may be wrong. and if lance can make a killing off it good for him. hell the money is sure as hell not going to the sierra club. so i cant understand your bitch. i deal with the pop ups because i have not paid my 20 bucks, but thats my choice. what in the hell is this thread about???????

Hey Lance, when do I get a ride in your helicopter:D :D :D

So how about a $30 fund, with $20 to POR and $10 to a legal fund? Is this what you are suggesting?
Would this make you more inclined to buck-up for your favored recreation?

Do you think you can honor your full responsibility to help the effort to keep trails open with a small tacked on fee (does this small fee reflect all you care about)? What makes you think this is more easily collected than just having the board visitors make a direct donation?

The problem with this tacked-on approach is the same people who cannot get past paying a fee for something that they get for free, POR web boards, also usually think donating a portion to a good cause is out of the budget (more excuses). What are you looking for, something you can easily excuse as an expense of admission when your eco-nut friends shame you for being a 4-wheeler?

If you really want to help -- NO EXCUSES!

You want to help fight the eco-extreme?

Get on the telephone and make a call with the credit card handy. BlueRibbon, www.sharetrails.org will take your membership and legal fund donation over the phone, and charge less to your Visa card than it costs to ship an axle cross country (tell the girls it's insurance to provide you admission to the trails).

Cal4Wheel, the ASA, and CORVA will do the same, and will focus on local issues. If you do not live in CA then pick a local club. These folks actually know the places where we drive (at least in California, and have very capable legal teams).

UFWDA can use the funding to help the cause nationally with some really good communication across the nation, and the AMA shares the same values (open trails), so you can add them to your donation target list.

At a minimum you need to support one national and one local organization, but the task is greater, so think about supporting more than just a web board or single club.

Getting the wallet out and spending the same cost that it takes to purchase three cases of beer or two tanks of gasoline should not require a budget shortfall negotiation session (unless you think like Grey Davis).

Happy Trails!

It seems to me that you're suggesting that Lance donate HIS money to help fight land closures. How very generous of you.
My suggestion is that, if you indeed don't have the money to donate, that you instead donate your time. Letters need to be written, meetings need to be attended. I have been to Forest Service and BLM meetings where off-roaders were out numbered 10 to 1. That's a pathetic showing for members of a sport that truly is in danger of being snuffed out of existence. Our newspaper's "Letters To The Editor" section has had hundreds of letters on upcoming election issues. My letter was the only one to speak up in opposition to Prop 40, that will give $2,600,000 to enviro groups like the Nature Conservancy to buy and lock up land.
There's a lot that can be done to fight land closures that doen't involve whipping out your wallet.

Originally posted by patooyee
I know some people may not like this topic, but if I knew that some of my $20 membership fee was going to fight those eco-bastards I would join in a mouse's heart beat.

Lance, I know it takes a lot of money to run the board, so maybe you could just keep what you needed and donate the rest to various 4x4-friendly charity funds, like this Rubicon dealy going on right now?

Just and idea. I would have a red star by my name as soon as a declaration of this sort was made. Then POR could honestly say that it was leading the way for a more friendly 4x4 world, and maybe some other sites/clubs would join in on the action!

J. J.

I just love it when people without a Red Star start suggesting where the money, that those of us with the Red Star have donated, should be spent. It's really starting to piss me off:mad3:

Listen, Patooyee- if you don't want to spend the 20 bones, that's fine. No problems. But don't start insisting that the money be donated here or there before you'll consider coughing up $20 bucks. Keep your cash because you obviously don't get it. If it wasn't for this BB and the actions of Lance and many others, there would have been a gate placed at the Lake Tahoe side of the Rubicon last Winter. Pirate 4x4 and the work of Friends of the Rubicon (formed from the Members of this BB) kept our beloved trail open.

As for your comment about knowing where the money goes. Those of us with the Red Stars ( last count I heard was around 250) know exactly where the money goes. It goes to Lance to help defer some of the cost to maintain the hardware that keeps this site afloat and on the Web.

If you want to support the BB with your $20.00 donation- Great!

If not- that's your choice and I'll respect it. But don't start demanding any accounting of where the money is spent. It's none of your business!

BARK...RUFF.....RUFF.....BARK......

Lance can I get a ride in your helicopter?

Originally posted by Big Rich
BARK...RUFF.....RUFF.....BARK......

Lance can I get a ride in your helicopter?

I'm sorry...Lance can't come to the BB right now...he's out dining at Taco Bell again with the vast amounts of money that he is raking in from all those red stars! :rolleyes: :roxy:

Dude,

If I was so broke that I could not afford $20, I damn sure wouldn't be dicking around reading posts on the internet. I would be out getting a better job, bussing tables, throwing papers, something! I just would not sit on my ass and read posts on the internet.

I personally donated over $1000 to the various land use issues last year through SW 4WD and United 4WD.

You want to donate? I suggest you pony up YOUR cash and give the nice folks at these organizations a call.

Originally posted by Rubicrawler




Listen, Patooyee- if you don't want to spend the 20 bones, that's fine. No problems. But don't start insisting that the money be donated here or there before you'll consider coughing up $20 bucks. Keep your cash because you obviously don't get it. If it wasn't for this BB and the actions of Lance and many others, there would have been a gate placed at the Lake Tahoe side of the Rubicon last Winter. Pirate 4x4 and the work of Friends of the Rubicon (formed from the Members of this BB) kept our beloved trail open.

If not- that's your choice and I'll respect it. But don't start demanding any accounting of where the money is spent. It's none of your business!

It's not that I don't want to spend the $20. In fact, I have donated to Blue Ribbon in the past and recently. And I AM/WAS considering coughing up the $20, which is why I was suggesting somewhere for it to go, like you said. I appreciate what Lance and everyone does for the 4x4 community, as I said above. I have also worked hard to clean up our local trail here in Athens, GA. Again, all I'm saying is that, wouldn't it be nice if a huge board like Pirate could contribute monetarily, too?

As for it being none of my business where my money goes, I think you can see the stupidity in that without any argument.

J. J.

Originally posted by wngrog
Dude,

If I was so broke that I could not afford $20, I damn sure wouldn't be dicking around reading posts on the internet. I would be out getting a better job, bussing tables, throwing papers, something! I just would not sit on my ass and read posts on the internet.

You want to donate? I suggest you pony up YOUR cash and give the nice folks at these organizations a call.

I wrote most of these posts at work, where I work 40 hours per week in addition to being a full-time student at a major state university.

I have donated, thank you.

J. J.

pat you are fighting a loosing battle

some times it is smarter to just admit
you are wrong,
Even if you belive you are right.

besides this belongs in shit chat any way

Originally posted by 60seriesguy
If you're poor, then you're in the *wrong* hobby, dude, you should take up bird watching or jogging or something else. Seriously, how can people bitch about $20 a year? That's under $2 a month, how much do you spend on cigarrettes or beer or friggin' burgers every month? If you can't spend $20 a year on this *and* donate another $20 (or whatever you can afford) to an organization fighting to keep trail access, then again, you're not in the right hobby...you're going to tell me that you don't break stuff when you wheel?

I hate this attitude! I guess I should sell me Runner cause I just lost my second job, and cause my wife just went off work cause of an operation! Right now I can't afford to put gas in my vechiles, but I will wheel if and when I can! Your attitude can go to hell...

I have given my $20, and proud of it. Everybody that can drop a $20, should! If your just an cheap skate, take it somewhere else! If U don't think that the knowledge is worth $20 take it somewhere else! The knowledge/members here had already saved me over $20, thanks to the guy who sold me the V6 MC, and the other that sold me the locking hubs, sorry that I can't remember names, just had some major HD problems!

If U can't afford, or don't want to affort the $20, shut the hell up. If U care about the BB at all, but R unable or don't want to pay the $20, click on a pop-up every now and then. Don't fawking worry about what Lance does with the little $ that is generated from this little jester we give him!

OK new rule, who ever bitches about the Red Star deal is banned, period end of discussion. Next time you buy gas ask the attendant/owner what he does with the money.

Second, with the time Lance and the others put into the site, I am positive that they are making less than minimum wage. BTDT I've owned an Internet company and I know first hand the hours required.

You want money donated to the land cause from your membership fee, then buck up forty and ask Lance to donate the other 20 in the name of Pirate 4x4


I call second on the helicopter ride.

JJ,

Here is how I see it...

If you wanna support the board donate 20 bucks... if ya dont, dont.
I think your reading into this WAY to much...

I dont think it is any of our business where the mula goes. I dont care if Lance is out buying crack with a side of whore with my 20 bucks, I think he deserves it.

I dont think Lance owes any more than he has already given.

I do hae another idea though to help fight eco fuckers though, how about some kind of donation count. An actual monetary dollar amount right there under your post count. If we put half as much effort into getting that number as high as our post counts then we would be donating some major mula!

I dont know the logistics of it or anything but why not? Make it public just how much donating is going on. We could even figure out fun ways to ridicule those that dont donate shit...

Kinda like newbies but funner!

:cool: :D

So this is a little off topic , but anyone else think we should get rid of the Fawking Communist red stars and put a USA flag there instead? Some of us old fawks cant stand the idea of putting a fawking commie star next to our name.
How hard would that be to do?

How about a gold star instead of a red star?

PATOOYEE ... A quick question for clarification: When you made your contribution(s) to the BlueRibbon, did they give you an EXACT breakdown of how your contribution was spent?!?! I mean, did they draw out some sort of graph or pie chart in pretty colors showing what percentage or exact sum and where it went to?!?! Because this is what it sounds to me of what you want Lance to do for you. If thats what you are looking for then I am gonna just step to the side and watch the light show as Spaceballs goes to "Ludicrous Speed!!".:flipoff2::laughing::p IMHO if you, or anyone else for that matter, find the time to bitch about a mere $20 to access an enormous wealth of techinical information, not to mention the kind of comradery you'll find no where else, then how do you justify spending the same approx. $20 for your online ISP service?!?! Hell, did your ISP give you a copy of their financial statement and one of those pretty colored pie charts before you signed up?!?! I think not. This is IMO the reason why so many are saying that you are off base on this one.
Originally posted by patooyee
Again, all I'm saying is that, wouldn't it be nice if a huge board like Pirate could contribute monetarily, too?I guess you haven't bothered to really read what is written between your own posts. So, how about I help sum it up for ya:question:Originally posted by Lance
red star money does indirectly keep the trails open. It keeps me working/running this site, which in turn is a medium that helps keep trails open (this site is where orgs like FOTR were formed, etc). How about this : Originally posted by Mo
The Pirates of the Rubicon club does a lot to benefit our sport. They sponsor a huge cleanup on the Rubicon trail every year. They worth with local land management to keep the land open for others. They work with other local organizations to fight land closures. I wanna know if you are really that sure $20 is all that much to support Pirate4x4.com : Originally posted by Crazy Horse
it costs way more than lance gets in donations to keep this site running, there aren't that many people who donate, but there are over 10000 users, and ungodly amounts of bandwidth used by this site. We use more than every other site at our co-location site COMBINED! Does this work better for you?! Would this solve your dilema of contribution?!
Originally posted by Ed A. Stevens
So how about a $30 fund, with $20 to POR and $10 to a legal fund? Is this what you are suggesting? Would this make you more inclined to buck-up for your favored recreation? Do you think you can honor your full responsibility to help the effort to keep trails open with a small tacked on fee (does this small fee reflect all you care about)? What makes you think this is more easily collected than just having the board visitors make a direct donation? The problem with this tacked-on approach is the same people who cannot get past paying a fee for something that they get for free, POR web boards, also usually think donating a portion to a good cause is out of the budget (more excuses). What are you looking for, something you can easily excuse as an expense of admission when your eco-nut friends shame you for being a 4-wheeler.
If you really want to help -- NO EXCUSES!

LANCE ... Please tell me where I can send my $20 check. I don't mind the pop-ups or all of the supposed hassles. I just want to do my part in keeping this forum open. If it ever works out that you have a way for us to donate to a POR or Friends of the Rubicon specific legal fund, please add me to the list to donate to it.Originally posted by evilfij
How about a gold star instead of a red star? BTW, what does it take to join Friends of the Rubicon? I live in AZ now but I figure that shouldn't make a difference! 'sides, I am a CA native who just so happens was abducted by aliens and dumped in AridZona. :laughing: THANKS LANCE!!

ohhh... a gold star I got one of those in kindergarten once :flipoff2:

Originally posted by DEnd
ohhh... a gold star I got one of those in kindergarten once
O N C E :question: ...

I guess that means unless you do yer chores you won't be gettin your "red star":confused:

:D :laughing: :p :laughing: :p :laughing: :D :laughing: :p :laughing: :p :laughing: :D

BTW, what does it take to join Friends of the Rubicon? I live in AZ now but I figure that shouldn't make a difference!
Actively work for the betterment of the Rubicon trail, and you ARE a Friend of the Rubicon. FOTR is a grass roots organization with no membership -- welcoming many different groups of users, many clubs, many BBSs, etc.

FOTR does not exist on any one board, in any single state, with any sole club... We are Friends of the Rubicon if we are willing to get off our ass and fight for it. I am and have... Lance is and has. Many of the folks on this BBS are Friends(OTR) and have helped (worked on the trail, attended meetings, sent in money, or maybe just sent letters)....

Don't let labels, geography, membership or anything else get in the way of joining FOTR -- you join by your actions.

Randii

Originally posted by Highlander
So this is a little off topic , but anyone else think we should get rid of the Fawking Communist red stars and put a USA flag there instead? Some of us old fawks cant stand the idea of putting a fawking commie star next to our name.
How hard would that be to do?

Boy some people will bitch about anything. :rolleyes: It's not a communist star. It's a little red star just like the stickers you got in elementary school. Talk about reading into shit. :rolleyes: If you aren't willing to buck up for the star you have no right to ask for it to be changed.

You guys who complain and makes demands for changes to a service that you receive FOR FREE need to give your heads a shake.

Originally posted by randii
BTW, what does it take to join Friends of the Rubicon? I live in AZ now but I figure that shouldn't make a difference!
Actively work for the betterment of the Rubicon trail, and you ARE a Friend of the Rubicon. FOTR is a grass roots organization with no membership -- welcoming many different groups of users, many clubs, many BBSs, etc.

FOTR does not exist on any one board, in any single state, with any sole club... We are Friends of the Rubicon if we are willing to get off our ass and fight for it. I am and have... Lance is and has. Many of the folks on this BBS are Friends(OTR) and have helped (worked on the trail, attended meetings, sent in money, or maybe just sent letters)....

Don't let labels, geography, membership or anything else get in the way of joining FOTR -- you join by your actions.

Randii

Randii- Very well said! That explains FOTR perfectly:)

FOTR is a state of mind and a call to action!

COMMUNISM FOREVAR!!!!

seriously though, as soon as I scrimp enough money together, I'll put my 20 bucks in. Just a few hours of browsing this site for CJ2 and zuk info is enough for me. As for fightin the so called "eco-nazis" they're not all bad guys. I come from a very liberal family and have no problem preserving the environment. I don't see four wheeling as a mutually exclusive activity though, maybe if the hardcore wheelers and hardcore eco guys got their heads out of their asses (not insulting you guys, but I have seen on many boards a bunch of redneck assholes who think it's their godgiven right to pollute the trails with trash and such), then we might get somewhere. I know that dialogues have been attempted before, and I think its something that everyone should try more often. I know I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here, but we need to work together with the mountain bikers and the hikers to keep our trails open from those who don't use them and think that the woods should stay "pretty." I'll shut up for now, as I'm sure you already have glossed over much of the post :D

See the sticky post at the top of this section re donations for the Rubicon. This board IS raising money for the cause.

I still think this topic belongs in
chit chat section
chit chat
chit chat
shit chat


It just dosent seem right
my topic on the for sale section was moved
why is this topic still here?

I bet it is one of those comie bas-----s
whith the red star beside his name who
is at fault,
its a consperiecy

(SMILE):smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:

The topics in Chit Chat are things like:
What music I listen to
Girly pics
My job sucks
My wife sucks
My kids suck
In short, topics that are not really 4X4 issues.
How is this NOT 4X4 a 4X4 issue?

Originally posted by tigger4x
PATOOYEE ... A quick question for clarification: When you made your contribution(s) to the BlueRibbon, did they give you an EXACT breakdown of how your contribution was spent?!?! I mean, did they draw out some sort of graph or pie chart in pretty colors showing what percentage or exact sum and where it went to?!?! Because this is what it sounds to me of what you want Lance to do for you.

TIGGER4X . . . A quick answer for clarification: YES! When I donate my money to Blue Ribbon, I DO get to specify exactly where it goes. I even get to specify to what exact legal case it goes to if I want it to. While they don't give pie charts, for any public donations place like Blue Ribbon it is required by law that their profits and expenditures are documented and made a matter of public record. So if I wanted to, I could look it up. Since you don't know this, I wonder if YOU have donated recently. :flipoff2: Also, at no time did I ask ask Lance to specify where the money goes. I do not think it is wrong to profit off a private enterprise, such that P4x4 is. I don't think I ever implied that, but if someone did get that out of what I said somehow, I am sorry.

Finally, Lance, I appreciate everything that you do for the 4x4 community. I am obviously fighting a losing battle here though and I don't intend to keep wasting my time on it. I feel that I give just as much, if not more, technical information on this board than I receive and I am not going to pay to do so. I feel that the information that I receive is paid for in the information that I give. I'm sure you can appreciate that. What money I can spare is going to go to Blue Ribbon and the likes. (In addition to my time.) I love P4x4 but if 4x4's aren't legal to drive anywhere, there is no point in the board. If P4x4 dissolved right now, there would be a million other boards just waiting to absorb the rush of free message writers. P4x4 is only unique in that it was the first. It is not unique in that it will ever be the last. (Unless, of course, there is no off-roading.)

Thanks for everybody's time. I know where you all stand on the issue.

J. J.

Originally posted by patooyee
snip ... Since you don't know this, I wonder if YOU have donated recently.As a matter of fact I have not ... YET!!! :flipoff2: I am in the same financial boat as you as of right now. I have been setting some beans aside and I am gettin' my "red star" and then will be giving to Blue Ribbon.
Originally posted by patooyee
I feel that I give just as much, if not more, technical information on this board than I receive and I am not going to pay to do so. I feel that the information that I receive is paid for in the information that I give. Maybe you should consider taking a course on HTML and being your own webmaster. Then you could have people pay you for all of your extensive knowledge.:flipoff2: Just be prepared for the guys telling you that your time, talent, information, and dedication isn't worth their "donation". :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Paul Gagnon


Boy some people will bitch about anything. :rolleyes: It's not a communist star. It's a little red star just like the stickers you got in elementary school. Talk about reading into shit. :rolleyes: If you aren't willing to buck up for the star you have no right to ask for it to be changed.

You guys who complain and makes demands for changes to a service that you receive FOR FREE need to give your heads a shake.

Maybe if you knew someone you died in Korea or Nam you might have a different outlook on Kommie stars. WTF is wrong with putting the Stars & Stripes up there?
I could buck up for ten stars if i wanted too , and maybe I will one of these days I will.
How about a fee for $30 for the flag and you kids can keep your kommie star?

Originally posted by tigger4x
As a matter of fact I have not ... YET!!! :flipoff2: I am in the same financial boat as you as of right now. I have been setting some beans aside and I am gettin' my "red star" and then will be giving to Blue Ribbon.
Maybe you should consider taking a course on HTML and being your own webmaster. Then you could have people pay you for all of your extensive knowledge.:flipoff2: Just be prepared for the guys telling you that your time, talent, information, and dedication isn't worth their "donation". :rolleyes:

I HAVE taken a course in HTML, and I AM my own web master. (Note the link in my sig.) Granted, my page is nothing like this one, nor nearly as complex. It is good enough for me though and the information that is available on it is FREE. (Such as the HUGE Dana Bill of Materials list from 1978.5 - 1998.5 that nearly EVERYONE on this board knows about and uses.) I forget the point I was trying to make here. :) Maybe it was just to prove you wrong again. Oh well. I'm done.

J. J.

BWAAAHAHAHAHA ... not likely! :flipoff2: Yer still here. :p

:beer:

Originally posted by Highlander


Maybe if you knew someone you died in Korea or Nam you might have a different outlook on Kommie stars. WTF is wrong with putting the Stars & Stripes up there?
I could buck up for ten stars if i wanted too , and maybe I will one of these days I will.
How about a fee for $30 for the flag and you kids can keep your kommie star?

Maybe if you knew what you were talking about. You wouldn't sound so ridiculous.


Soviet flag:
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/s/su.gif

The single yellow star is both the representation of the life and immense
energy of the sun, empty because within is the blood or production of workers struggle; and also the five points of the star
symbolize the single unity and international representation of the government -- each of the five points is representative of the
five (up to then known/recognized) continents.

Chinese flag:

http://atlasgeo.span.ch/fotw/images/c/cn!zeng2.gif

According to Carol P. Shaw in the book Flags (Running Press), the red of the flag is the traditional color of revolution; the
large gold star represents "the Common Program of the Communist Party"; and the smaller gold stars represent the four classes
united by the common program: the workers, the peasants, the petty bourgeois, and capitalists sympathetic to the Party (or
"patriotic capitalists").


North Korean flag:

http://www.fotw.ca/images/kp.gif

The five-pointed star signifies the happy prospects of the
people building socialism under the leadership of the Korean Worker's Party.

Viet Nam flag:

http://www.fotw.ca/images/vn.gif

The five points of the star stand for the farmers, workers, intellectuals, youth and soldiers.

Cuban flag:

http://www.fotw.ca/images/cu.gif

While the lone white star within the equilateral red traingle represents the unity of our people upon the blood spilled by our revolutionary
heroes.

USA flag:

http://www.fotw.ca/images/us50.gif

click here for explanation of white AND gold stars on US flag http://www.fotw.ca/flags/us-star.html


All info taken from "Flags of the World" http://www.fotw.ca/flags/index.html

Dun dun duuunnn ... It's Super Paul to the rescue!! ;) j/k Paul Awesome response!

I think the reason why some folks such as HighLander are stating that the "red star" is a sign of communism is when they see it displayed by itself. What I am trying to say is when you see a communist aircraft or vehicle on TV or in movies(I've never seen one IRL) they have the BIG red star on them. I think this is what they are relating their greivance to. Your explanation of the star used on flags throughout the world IMHO was pretty kewl.

HighLander, please don't get me wrong, I have family that have served their country in these wars and have nothing but the utmost respect for all of those who served and/or died for the freedoms we have and enjoy today. I can see where you are coming from about the star being red but IMHO I don't think Lance or anyone else meant it too mean anything along the lines of communism or disrespect. Maybe the color of the star(s) will change here on P4x4. IF I read it right, Lance may be considering another color as well as adding more for things like additional monies donated by board members to organizations that will fight for everyone's right to enjoy the trails and wilderness.

Just my .02 I guess. :beer: to all!

Ok, I hope there's no more talk of "commie" stars now....

:rolleyes:

There is still a red commie star in the upper right hand corner next to thanks for your support. Just leave em. Jeez what a bunch on bitches!!!

Originally posted by Lance
Ok, I hope there's no more talk of "commie" stars now....

:rolleyes:

what if you want the dirty commie star when you contribute? :D

OMG this is just too funny. Perhaps I should change from Marx to the hammer and sickle.

BTW-Yeah I know people who died in Nam. That has nothing to do with anything discussed here.

Originally posted by MattS
There is still a red commie star in the upper right hand corner next to thanks for your support. Just leave em. Jeez what a bunch on bitches!!!



Hey Matt.. So does you avatar.

And Hey... So does Mine!

And.. how shall I put this...
Proud Gulf War Veteran.
Son of a Proud Navy Vietnam Veteran
Nephew of a Proud Navy Vietnam Veteran
Grandson of a Proud Navy WWII Veteran
Great-Grandson of a Proud Navy WWI Veteran
Great-Nephew of a Proud WWII Army Veteran
Great-Great Nephew of a Proud WWI Army Veteran.
Beyone that I don't know what Branch or when, But EVERY male in my family has served in the US/Confederate/Union/Revolutionary Armed Forces/Militia, or the Army of whatever country they were from.

Does that mean my grandfather hates the Japanese? No. Does that mean my dad hates the Vietnamese? No. Does that mean that I hate the Iraqis? No. Get over your hatred for the Communist countries in the world. Just get over your hatred. Different peoples, different times.. What makes you different from them? Hey since we are on this subject....
Can anyone tell me what the largest Communist regime int eh history of the world is? How about the Largest Marxist Regime? And what the Difference is? (Trick Question.... Hope you know the difference!)

I hate to jump all over this bandwagon, but: If you think of the red star as the "symbol of communism" -- please think about the past history of these United States of America and realize that we "Americans" owned slaves for many years under that flag. That we "Americans" killed and displaced the entire native indian tribes (the only "true" Americans) while proudly flying the stars and stripes.

Its all a matter of perspective. The symbolism of a star or a flag or a cross (Don't EVEN get me started on "Christian" religions) has no meaning to someone not indoctrinated (or brainwashed) with its "meaning".

Trust me, I LOVE this country, and would gladly take up arms against ANYONE who would attack our right to exist or make us live in fear. However, I hold no notion that what I am doing is "morally right" or that I am a better person and deserve to force my views on people with different experiences.... Its just not that simple, folks...

Okay, I didn't feel like wasting my time reading the whole thread, I think the 20 bucks should go directly to running the site and Lance should do with it as he pleases. I think there should be an option to donate 1,5,10,20 dollars extra for a cause like Blue Ribbon in the name of the Pirate4x4.com members. This would work well and those that care to donate can and those that don't want to don't have to. Once a sizable amount is raised a listing of all who donated can be posted with the amounts from each member (for accoutablity reasons) and a large sum can be donated.

Now quit yer bitchin!

As for having an American flag in place of the "red communist star" :rolleyes:, what about the Pirate4x4 contributors that aren't American? As much as I like my American friends and the U.S. as a country, I don't want an American flag beside my name. Hell I'm Canadian....should I whine to Lance about which flag he's to post beside my name?

My honest opinion is - if you don't pay your $20. then you have no place to bitch and whine about where the money goes, or what the hell color the star is.

If you hate the color of the star so much and refuse to ante up $20. because of it then what the hell are you doing here anyways?

Lance....is there a line forming for those helicopter rides yet? :D

I think the whole $20 should go to Lance. I hope he gets enough $20 members so he can spend all his time building and wheeling and running the web site, I think that would be great for the sport. If you wanna donate to Blue Ribbon etc just cut another check.

And I'm sorry all the red stars got changed to yellow ones. It reminds of the time when the Cinncinati Reds had to change their name (luckily that didn't last long). Communists don't own the color red.

Originally posted by 92xj
Communists don't own the color red.

Just like gays don't own rainbows.

If I have to have gold, I want mine to be arches.:D As far as the pie chart goes I can help you out there. It's very easy and you can do it at home. Grab some paper from your printer and a crayon and use the crayon to draw a circle on the paper. Yep, just like a pie chart. Now color the whole circle in with a color of your choice, very good. Now take the black crayon and write in big letters "100% non of my fawkin business." Voila there is your pie chart that explains where the $20 goes.:D Lance said in the stickie if you want to get rid of the pop up ads donate the $20 and they'll go away and you can post pics. I donated $20, pop ups went away and I can post pics sounds like I got what he offered. It didn't say donate $20 and I'll fight trail closures, if you want to fight trail closures got to the land use section there are plenty of letters, etc. that you can help out with and it doesn't cost anything. There are plenty of things for everyone to do that involve donating money but more importantly your time and attention. Let's focus on the real issue here and instead of fighting with one another let's concentrate on those that would keep us from our COMMON hobby.:smokin: ,:beer: go sign some petitions and let's get back to wheelin.:usa:

Originally posted by Sloan
SNIP ... As far as the pie chart goes I can help you out there. It's very easy and you can do it at home. Grab some paper from your printer and a crayon and use the crayon to draw a circle on the paper. Yep, just like a pie chart. Now color the whole circle in with a color of your choice, very good. Now take the black crayon and write in big letters "100% non of my fawkin business." Voila there is your pie chart that explains where the $20 goes.:D ... Let's focus on the real issue here and instead of fighting with one another let's concentrate on those that would keep us from our COMMON hobby.:smokin: ,:beer: go sign some petitions and let's get back to wheelin.:usa: RIGHT AWWWN SLOAN!!! Originally posted by TPIjeep I think there should be an option to donate 1,5,10,20 dollars extra for a cause like Blue Ribbon in the name of the Pirate4x4.com members. This would work well and those that care to donate can and those that don't want to don't have to. Once a sizable amount is raised a listing of all who donated can be posted with the amounts from each member (for accoutablity reasons) and a large sum can be donated. TPI has a damn good point here! Whadaya say Lance?!? It gets my vote!


:beer:s all around

geeeeze...... donate 20 bones or shut up.... if ya want to donate to other organizations.... write the friggin check and sen it in, join a local club and get involved in land use issues, charity drives for good cause so we (4 wheelers) can be seen as a community of caring people.....promote the sport to younger crowds and teach them the ropes..... nuff said!

I understand your point Patooyee, and doing think you should be getting railed by the suckemupalots. Fuggem.
I have just decided to send my $20 to POR BBS for this year. I'm doing so because I've reaped the benefit of a great deal of knowledge and experience from other members, and put that experience to good use in the build-up of my rig. I would've spent many, many more hours (and likely f*ckups) were it not for this valuable resource. For that I'm thankful.
As for charitable contributions, I send those directly to Blue Ribbon. If you want to give, give directly. Giving through a 3rd party either means less money to the charity, or more time on behalf of the 3rd party.

The discussion about the color of the star is just g'damned ridiculous. I can't believe some duffer is on here bitching about the color of a friggin avatar.:rolleyes: If the peckerwood ever fronts the $20 for membership, I'd suggest making his avatar and star a :rainbow:

Oh yeah, Lance you need to chance this page to say "yellow" instead of Commie, er, uh, "red".
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/extreme.html

I know I've been gone for the weekend and this thread has just about died, but I think Sloan has something there, he maybe didn't come right out and say it but I will.....


[rant mode] Shut the Fawk UP, stop bitching about things that are not important (colors of stars and "where does my money go") and start doing something about important things. There are tons of things you can do for free to help out - letters, phone calls, e-mails, show up at workdays and trail maintence days, etc.... just do something and stop wasting all your time and energy on this bullshit arguing and use it on a constructive letter or phone call or something....

If you want to donate to the PBB then do it, if you don't then don't. It should have nothing to do with how much goes to what.... do a search and look around and see how much this board and The POR have done for the Rubicon, as well as other Trails and organizations....Put Up or Shut Up!! Stop wasting everyones time with all this whining and bitching....[/rant mode]


Have a nice day :)

:usa:

You're only saying that cuz your new yellow star matches your typeface now.

umm, you just said that to the moderator of the Land Use Issues forum who has "Eco-Nazi's Nightmare" under his name.

Real smart Clark, real smart!!!! :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by 92xj
You're only saying that cuz your new yellow star matches your typeface now.

Sorry, I'm still laughing about the red star controversy. I agree with what yellowsub is saying (see my posts above), I just thought, well here's somebody who ought to be happy about the new star color.

Learn to use the :flipoff2: and :D or we don't know your :laughing: :laughing:
Just givin ya a hard time :flipoff2:

Oh and unless your gonna get laid never never ever say your sorry!!! :flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2:

Originally posted by 92xj
Sorry, I'm still laughing about the red star controversy. I agree with what yellowsub is saying (see my posts above), I just thought, well here's somebody who ought to be happy about the new star color.

Interesting thread.
I donated because I know what running one of these takes. Hell, if you need my services, drop me a line. I work as a Network Security Engineer...

I only read half of all that... but the red star thing is retarded.

Anyway... Lance, you can take my 20 bucks and roll it into the biggest fattest fawking joint you have ever rolled or smoked and suck it all down in one puff for all I care. You can use it to wipe your ass or even to start wallpapering your house.

Honestly, I don’t give even the smallest rat’s ass what you do with it.

I donated (donation: a free contribution) my twenty bucks to PBB because it is a good resource for knowledge, an excellent resource to buy or sell parts, and just as importantly; it is entertaining. I spend more than twenty dollars every time I walk into the movie theatre and that only lasts a couple hours.

If smoking twenties will keep Lance on the job a while longer so I don’t get bored at work then I am sure as hell willing to contribute.

Some people are the biggest damned bunch of whiners.

P.S. The reason I am dragging this up is because I got here searching for why the stars changed colors… not because I cared, but because curiosity was killing me… but communist stars?? Next thing you know they will be banning red stars in Kindercares across the country!!

bwahahahahahahahahaha!

Hey this is just like fishin. Ya tho in the bait and the stupid fish bite the hook!!!

I tried to start this red star crap a month ago but no-one took the bait. Looks like new fish in the water.

The board was boring so I thought Id stir it up.

Bwahahahaha.

Now eveyone calm down.