408 Stroker??

[792.5cj5]

Thinking about running one in a Jeep with rockwells, 50 inch xl's, and propane.

Does anyone have any info on this motor?

Is any one running this on propane?

If so, what internals did you use, and how are they lasting?

Any advice will be great.

Thanks

[FL Crawler]

Check out krcperformance.net they have the kits. You can also buy complete motors from them.

[792.5cj5]

Check out krcperformance.net they have the kits. You can also buy complete motors from them.

Saw them and hughes

I'm thingk of going with the hughes kit with one of there cams. A set of crane 1.6 rockers, J-heads, mild porting, SS 2.02 valves, Hardened seats.

Thats alot of cash. Is the good stuff really worth it? Or should I save the money and build my own kit from jegs or summit. The biggest diff.(I think, correct me if I'm wrong) is that hughes stuff is going to be internaly balanced, where a Mopar unit is not.???right??

Thanks for the input!!

[792.5cj5]

Also:

I already have the J-heads

I have a set of headers 1 5/8 primary tubes to 2 1/2 duals to 3 single

Need to know what intakes are working for the propane folks.(What propane parts to?)

[TheRamChargerMan]

also try mancini racing, hensley performance, and speedo motive.

[792.5cj5]

Did, still thinking hughes--becasue of the internal balanceing.


COME ON GUYS 45 VIEWS AND ONLY 2 REPLIES--HELP ME OUT HERE. WHERE IS THE
PROPANE GUYS.

THANKS

[TheRamChargerMan]

They is in the garage..which is where I am heading


You can get it balanced anywhere...hughes is good, but pricey.

[792.5cj5]

While your there, ask them what internals they are using.

$$$ is about even if you take into account paying someone else to balance it, and I would rather have them balance it with the rods and pistons.

Are you happy with what your running? Anything that you would do different?

Thanks

[792.5cj5]

litttle help, come on

[792.5cj5]

Where are the propane guys??

[Old Scout]

litttle help, come on
SEARCH it's been covered! :flipoff2:

[792.5cj5]

I have looking for more :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

[Old Scout]

I have looking for more :flipoff2: :flipoff2:
Like what?? :flipoff2:

[FULLSIZE]

yeah, like what? :flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2:

[792.5cj5]

Like what?? :flipoff2:
Like which stroker kit did you use, which crank, was internaly or externaly balanced, which pistons, rods, heads, valves, cam, headers, intake. And which of this worked out best? Also I would like to hear this from someone that has experience with a propane motor.

The whole reason for this board is to get info and find out about things other people have done that worked for them. No reason to be a dick.

[FULLSIZE]

go with any of the kits (i will use muscle motors) and just crank up the compression. LP likes high compression.;)

[twodafloor]

Thinking about running one in a Jeep with rockwells, 50 inch xl's, and propane.

Does anyone have any info on this motor?

Is any one running this on propane?

If so, what internals did you use, and how are they lasting?

Any advice will be great.

Thanks

Well i can tell you the 408 is a great motor street or track. Many vendors sell kits. The 4 inch cast crank is fine. They can take a pretty heathy cam because of the long stroke.

J heads are ok, the stock "308" castings are better, magnum r/t are great in the cast iron variety, eddlebrocks are better and it goes from there.

Hughes has good stuff but I hear much about how he is a dickhead customer wise and his new line of cams are to aggresive ramps and people are eating cams.

I can recommend Hensley since I use them and I live 9 miles from there shop.

A far as propane cant think of anyone off hand that runs a 408 on propane so thats all I know.

www.moparts.com is a great place for info also. the Q&A section and unlawfuls race section are the areas to read look into. Good luck.


wp

[Old Scout]

What crank????
Is it so unclear that the MP crank is the only choice for a crawler engine?

Most of the kits are made for the go fast guys. IMO the best route is get the MP crank, KB pistions from Summit/Jegs and the some 5140 or 4340 rods from CAT

http://www.catpep.com/default1.htm

[Old Scout]

Like which stroker kit did you use, which crank, was internaly or externaly balanced, which pistons, rods, heads, valves, cam, headers, intake. And which of this worked out best? Also I would like to hear this from someone that has experience with a propane motor.

The whole reason for this board is to get info and find out about things other people have done that worked for them. No reason to be a dick.

And no reason to be so vague! :shaking: :flipoff2:

Nobody likes to take the time to spoon feed a noob. About the only descent piece of info you have given us is that you want to go propane.

So what is your budget?
Magnum heads or old style?
You want low end grunt or motor that likes high revs?

[792.5cj5]

You have been so much help, thanks--OLD SCOUT :flipoff2:

twodafloor-truely thank you for your time and the info that you gave.

Instead of trying to be a bad ass that can't read due to your oversized head being in the way. :flipoff2:

I have search and yes it is clear that there are better choices for the crank. Hughes is a Mopar only company that has a kit that comes with a HD crank, I-beam rods, you choice of pistons, bearings, rings, and it is a balanced rotating assemble. With is way better that bolting in unbalaced parts. Plus Hughes has some of the most aggressive cams out there that are made for a Mopar instead of Chevy cam fit to a Mopar. The difference in the motors is the size of the lifters.

Some decent info:

360-.030-over
J-heads-2.02 SS/1.60 SS-Hard seats-mild porting
Hughes CNC rollers-springs-rods
Torker II intake
Headman Tight Tubes
KB Forged pistons, moly rings
I-beam rods
Hughes 4.00 crank
All machine work to make it work

Propane shit:
450 OHG w/CNC power valve
Century 350hp regulator on electric lock-off(this one will run the Jeep at all times)
Century 150hp regulator on electric lock-off(this one is on a toggle-for that extra bust of power)


Sorry for being such a newbie-didn't know that I was. Hope this is better.

[Old Scout]

You have been so much help, thanks--OLD SCOUT :flipoff2:

twodafloor-truely thank you for your time and the info that you gave.

Instead of trying to be a bad ass that can't read due to your oversized head being in the way. :flipoff2:

I have search and yes it is clear that there are better choices for the crank. Hughes is a Mopar only company that has a kit that comes with a HD crank, I-beam rods, you choice of pistons, bearings, rings, and it is a balanced rotating assemble. With is way better that bolting in unbalaced parts. Plus Hughes has some of the most aggressive cams out there that are made for a Mopar instead of Chevy cam fit to a Mopar. The difference in the motors is the size of the lifters.

Some decent info:

360-.030-over
J-heads-2.02 SS/1.60 SS-Hard seats-mild porting
Hughes CNC rollers-springs-rods
Torker II intake
Headman Tight Tubes
KB Forged pistons, moly rings
I-beam rods
Hughes 4.00 crank
All machine work to make it work

Propane shit:
450 OHG w/CNC power valve
Century 350hp regulator on electric lock-off(this one will run the Jeep at all times)
Century 150hp regulator on electric lock-off(this one is on a toggle-for that extra bust of power)


Sorry for being such a newbie-didn't know that I was. Hope this is better.


WERE is this HD crank you speak of?

http://www.hughesengines.com/crank_kits/408crankkit.asp

They only show a cast crank.

[792.5cj5]

That is a Eagle crank(I think), with is then balanced to the rods, and pistons. Which in my book makes it better that just dropping in a MP crank.

[twodafloor]

Well my understanding is the 4.0" crank is a Mopar performance piece (MP) and is as you know cast . idunno of a forged one but i mean im sure callies or somebody is making them. I have seen it list as HD ( heavyduty) I think thats just a misnomer. Eagle would be the rods. There China cast like most stuff. I would go with the Manley myself. to much quality control issues with China stuff and of coursee my pet peeve they are a communist country. Since KRC is doing the build Imsure there checking the specs and stuff or they should be.

As far as the KRC. first time I checked them out and seem like a good deal. I question if that comes with the induction ? ie TB, manifold drilled for injectors ,fule rail and injectors or is that stuff from your exhisting setup maybe? That could add to the price. The 8900$ seems resonable for a high end shop.

The dyno numbers look sweet as well.

I assume you have the driveline laid out? Are you gonna be using the a-518 .


wp

[792.5cj5]

drivetrain:

np435- tranny, np205-t-case w/ twin sticks, on to rockwells turning 14r20 xl's

[792.5cj5]

Do you guys think it will hold up????

[Old Scout]

Do you guys think it will hold up????

The cast crank is fine up to ~1.3/hp cubic inch.

[792.5cj5]

I was shooting for around 500hp. May be that will make the 14R20 xl's spin.

[Old Scout]

I was shooting for around 500hp. May be that will make the 14R20 xl's spin.
Then build a 440,451 or 499. A 500hp small block makes little sense on a trail rig.

[792.5cj5]

I've never had much sense. So why start now. I don't want to be lacking for power, and I've got a 360, not a 440. Use what ya got, and make it work, really good. Plus it's less weight(I think)

[792.5cj5]

This is a lite weight rig as you can tell. With rockwells, stazworks steel double beadlock, on 14r20 xl's. Hell I bet tires, wheels, and axles weight in a 2500lb's. But I'mtrying to keep it under 5,000.

Does anyone know the weight on a dodge np435, np205, 360?

Thanks

[792.5cj5]

anyone running propane???

[Old Scout]

anyone running propane???
Just my 0.02. a set of aftermarket magnum heads and a EFI set up makes more sence.

[TheRamChargerMan]

Well, if you're thinking eddy heads, read this first. thye work, but they are NOT bolt on.

http://ramchargercentral.com/boards/index.php?topic=36695.0

MP makes both a forged and cast crank for the 4.0" stroke.

And if a 500 hp small block makes no sense for the trail, then I guess I 'm heading for trouble.

Mine should be over 500 ft lbs and hp, and most torque will be below 3000 rpm.

I got a 400 I could build to 500, but it'd cost twice as much as it would to stroke my SB, since I already have the top end for a 360. I plan on using the 400 for the dragstrip anyway.

[792.5cj5]

I don't know why 500hp is not a good idea in a trail rig. I like the sport of rock jumping, myself. Also why is MPI better than propane(Old Scout).

I just placed the order for Huges yesterday:

4.00 stroke crank
Eagle I-beam rods
KB Forged flat top pistons
ARP bolts
Bearings
(all above internaly balanced)
CNC roller rockers
Billet hold downs
Springs-double
Retainers
Racing lifters
Cam
All for around $2600.00

Now I have to wait 3 weeks to get it.

Also have plans to use J-Heads:

SS 2.02 intakes
SS 1.60 exhuast
Machine down to 65cc chamber
Gasket port
Bowl port

Using Eddy Torker II intake topped with a OHG 450 propane mixer

Headman tight tube's for headers to a 3in mandel bent flowmaster exhaust


Should have some pretty good power and torque. We shall see!!!!!!!!!!

******Anyone mounted a Howe TC sterring pump to a Dodge SB*********

[Old Scout]

I don't know why 500hp is not a good idea in a trail rig. I like the sport of rock jumping, myself. Also why is MPI better than propane(Old Scout).
*
Drive both and find out for yourself.

It's not that 500hp is a bad idea, it's driving a rung out small block is less fun than a built big block. IMO a engine above ~1.1hp/cubic inch has the power and torque is too far up the rpm range to be useful. Perhaps you like slipping your clutch or having a loose torque converter?

I was once told that you should build your engine to achieve max ft/lbs at 500-700 rpm under your max redline. Don't even worry about HP, because it is the torque that does all the work anyway. I've build two engines with this in mind and there both a complete joy to drive. They pull like a freight train right up to redline.

Have you run you build through a program like desktop dyno?

[792.5cj5]

http://www.hughesengines.com/dyno_results/sb_stroker2.asp

Dyno results from HUGHES, not me: Results:
471.6 HP @ 5300RPM and 498.0ft-lbs torque @ 4400RPM

on GAS--should be even better on propane---right??

As far as slipping the clutch(Old Scout), I think that in 1st and low, there should be no slipping needed. I mean the rockwell ratio is 6.72, I think it will be balls to the wall fun time in the woods.

I think that if my motor is like the one in the dyno, that the rpm range is going to be almost perfect.

Engine RPM Corrected Horsepower CorrectedTorque (ft-lbs)
2600 211.7 427.6
2700 221.2 430.3
2800 232.3 435.6
2900 240.6 435.8
3000 246.6 431.7
3100 252.2 427.3
3200 257.5 422.7
3300 265.5 422.6
3400 279.8 432.2
3500 291.3 437.1

This was striaght from hughes as well. As you can see, pleanty of torque on the lower end. And if I need the power, it is only a step away.

************WE WILL SEE

[Old Scout]

on GAS--should be even better on propane---right??




:laughing: :laughing: Dude study up. On average propane has about 25% less BTUs of energy per gallon than gasoline. It has a higher octane rating so if you build it right you can make up for some of the loss, but not all!

[TheRamChargerMan]

Well, my stroker, will, according to the desktop dyno thingy, make 568 ftlbs at 2000 rpm, and 453 hp at 5000 rpm. that is max torque by the way, but it is still over 500 ft lbs up until 5000 rpm. that is

the desktop dyno is not accurate for numbers, but it also doesn't take into account the port work and such on my heads & intake. so I figure it will work out to be real close in the long run.

[792.5cj5]

The amount of power I lose will be on the top end. Which I will never even notice. I would rather lose a couple ponnies at 5000RPM's and be able to drive on my side. Not drag racing here, rock jumping is the game.