ifs to straight axle

[79yoda]

how hard would you guys say it is for a generally new person to 4 wheeling to convert ifs to straight axle? i have all of the necessary tools... i think... but im wondering about stuff like axle placement and some thing i may have not thought of before. :confused: so if you guys can think of anything i might not have let me know. the truck would be a 86-88 toy single cab. thanks mike

[GETTINTHERETOY]

When I did mine this was my best tool.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173918

[Pazuzu]

Why would you want to? If you're new to wheeling, then learn to wheel a bit before you jump into surgery like that. If you're convinced that you need the solid axle to wheel, then buy an 85. I personally think one of the best ways to learn to wheel is to use an IFS truck and work your way up in skill until you reach the point where IFS won't work anymore, then you'll naturally be ready to do the solid axle swap.

[AJ86toy]

Why would you want to? If you're new to wheeling, then learn to wheel a bit before you jump into surgery like that.
I totaly agree. I have an '86, and wheeled with the IFS for about 2 years before doing the SAS. IFS is forgiving, it takes a lot to brake it. With a solid axle, I can break stock birfs on command, but I have learned how to drive with out doing that now. I say get more expierience with the IFS before doing the SAS. :beer:

[Hottrod81]

If you have all of the necessary tools and do a little research, it shouldn't be that difficult for you

[79yoda]

why would i want to get used to wheeling with ifs then change to straight axle? doesn't make much sence to me. if i just do the conversion then wheel more with it then i would be used to it and btw i dont wanna sound dumb but i heard and seen a few diagrams and things about birfs what are thaey and what do they do? and again only a few people awnsered my orginal question what kinds of measurements do i need to get for the conversion. cuz it is impossible to find a 85 in my area in my price range but a 86-88 is easy... thanks again mike

[Pazuzu]

OK, how about this.
You build a SAS based on what your wheeling style is and what you tend to wheel on. Each SAS is different and unique. Until you know how you wheel and what you wheel on, you won't know exactly how to set up your SAS. Therefore, if you just do one know, with the exceptional lack of knowledge about them that you have, then you will end up with an expensive vehicle that does not do what you what it to do.

If, instead, you get the 86-89 and start wheeling as it is, and slowly learn how you wheel, and what you like...and, oh by the way, read the board a lot and search, then in a year or 2 or 3 you'll know not only HOW to do the SAS yourself, but HOW to dial it in so that you are happy with the vehicle you get.

Does that make sense? If not, then go do whatever the hell you want. But if you can't afford an 85 right now, then you can't afford an 86 with a SAS.

[79yoda]

that makes sence i guess but i've been going wheeling for aobut 2 years almost every weekend and i know what i want to do with it and i know what i want to do with it but i just dont know how to do it... and btw i wasnt wheeling in my own truck so it kinda sucked. so i dont know what things i need to do to get it how i want and i can afford a 86 with SAS but not a 85 they are about 2000 more total then a SAS 86

[Pazuzu]

i want and i can afford a 86 with SAS but not a 85 they are about 2000 more total then a SAS 86


86-89 Toy trucks, basic 4 banger trucks: $2000-$3000
84/85 Toy trucks, basic 4 banger trucks: $3000-$4000

SAS: $1500ish to $2500ish.

You don't know enough about doing a proper safe SAS if you think an 86 with a SAS is cheaper than an 85. There's an 85 right now here in Tucson, 33s, 3 inch lift, clean, for $2500. Get that and be done with it.
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5292

If you walk away from this, I'll smack you.

[1TFROT]

why would i want to get used to wheeling with ifs then change to straight axle? doesn't make much sence to me. if i just do the conversion then wheel more with it then i would be used to it and btw i dont wanna sound dumb but i heard and seen a few diagrams and things about birfs what are thaey and what do they do? and again only a few people awnsered my orginal question what kinds of measurements do i need to get for the conversion. cuz it is impossible to find a 85 in my area in my price range but a 86-88 is easy... thanks again mike

I think there's a couple of reasons why he mentioned that.....

1) wheelin with a less capable rig typically will make you a better driver since you will learn to overcome vehicle limitations and also be forced (sometimes) to look for different lines.

2) taking the extra time should allow you to save more money (if that's necessary) in order to do the swap/conversion correctly (like getting the right axle the first time, getting the correct setup, etc...)

3) that should be enough :grinpimp:

[makya]

Paz, you may want to rip me a new one for this but wtf are you thinking? running the 7.5" ring in the front sucks ass I owned 4 ifs toyotas and two of them busted the front gear set as soon as I went to 33's (which is what you need for even basic trail clearance), which you know is the least this guy is gonna want to run if he's here. Also the lifts are more expensive to fit a decent size tire, you'll have to re-gear again after the swap. overall, with a decent ifs lift & 33's he's going to spend the cost of an SAS. and then spend it again in two years b/c someone told him to? At least if he does it now, he can spend that $1500 over the next two years in a quicker learning curve on lockers & gears. I understand you guys might think it's safer starting out, but not when you snap the front gears off camber with a limited ifs from trying to push the limits of the truck

[Pazuzu]

Um...
Then you can't wheel well :p
He has 3 choices.
1: Buy an IFS rig now, start wheeling, learn, save money, and have fun right now
2: Buy an IFS rig, spend lots of money on something he doesn't understand, and not have fun for several months, or forever.
3: Sit around waiting for a SA truck, not having any fun in the mean time, then spending lots of money on that, and not having fun for several more months...or forever.

Which seems like the best choice?

Many of us wheeled IFS for years before we decided to do the SAS. Many of us wheeled hard. Much harder than you're talknig about. And you know what? We not only got really good and *wheeling* (point and shoot ain't wheeling), but we understood all of the intricacies of the SAS when the time came, and ended up with a much better rig.

And none of us asked questions like "How do I do a SAS?".

[makya]

Um...
Then you can't wheel well :p


OH YEAH!!???
dammit, I got nothin'. you actually made a good point. :flipoff2:

[Pazuzu]

OH YEAH!!???
dammit, I got nothin'. you actually made a good point. :flipoff2:
That's impressive, because I'm getting tipsy and realizing how many freaking misspelled words I have up there :laughing:

[4Mogger]

Bought my Runner new in '94. Wheeling an IFS truck for 10 years gives you plenty of time to plan the buildup you want to do. So wheel and learn and then save up and do it right. That way you don't waste any money on incremental improvements that end up in the used/broken parts pile.
To think I almost bought a Downey IFS kit about 7-8 years ago. Then almost swapped in a narrow Toy straight axle with spacers. And somehow avoided dropping a grand on an ARB locker/compressor for the rear axle. About 5 years ago I started saving for, collecting parts, and planning...this:

[79yoda]

but what if i know what i want to do and know the things i need to do to get it there like a said before i wheeled in an ifs truck for almost 2 years every weekend and i know what things i need to do in an ifs truck. and im not saying im gonna buy the truck one weekend and swap it to SAS the next there will probably be about 6-8 months in there for getting the truck to good running condition before any mods happen... but what the main question is here is do i buy a straight axle truck and run with it or buy an ifs for cheaper and then convert it when i can? either way m gonna go with straight axle. im just wondering if it is worth the extra 1500-2000 bucks to but a pre 85 truck to save me money and hassle in the long run with the whole conversion process... thanks again for the replys keep 'em commin

[Pazuzu]

I gave you a freaking link to a good 85 for $2500!!!!

AND...you claim that you "know what things I need to do in an IFS truck" (capitalization corrected), but you don't. You just asked us what you need to do. You don't know, and if you try it now, you'll possibly screw it up.

Just buy the 85 I linked and be done with it :shaking:

[79yoda]

i meant what to do as in driving it not as in how to convert it

[Pazuzu]

Ya know kid, I've tried to help, but you are so bull headed, that you aren't listening to a freaking thing anyone has said. So, you go and do whatever the hell you want to, and then you can come back and tell us all about it. I'm sure we'll be waiting with baited breath to hear how you did your SAS.

[GETTINTHERETOY]

Paz.....you seem to be getting stressed. :laughing: Count to ten and take a deep breath.

Now get back into chit chat where you can really be an ass :flipoff2:

79yoda........There has been some good advice given here. Follow it. Buy the 86 and newer rig if money is the issue right now. Wheel the piss outta it. Save your money for an SAS. And search and read the FAQ. Most your questions will be answered.

[79yoda]

alright that part has been pretty much covered im gonna buy an ifs truck. but what im still wondering is can i do the fabrication side of the SAS? i beleive i have all the tools and equipment to do it. i wondering if there is anything i might need that i might have not thought of? so when i decide to do it i have everything i need. thanks mike

[Pazuzu]

OK, we'll try this again :shaking:

What do you have? What do you plan to do? What resources do you have in an emergency?

[Pazuzu]

And buy the damned truck I linked and you won't have to worry about it. $2500!!! You can't touch that in a decent IFS rig!! and it's already lifted some, with real tires!!! It's worth the freaking drive to Arizona.

[79yoda]

what do i have as far as tools? a torch a welder a chop saw a tube bender most if not all basic hand tools... i dont know i have alot. and i plan to do alot of trails and some rock crawling (trails in nor-cal, and including the rubicon) resources as far as what in an emergency?

[Pazuzu]

As far as you realize that you have no bolts for the front spring eye, or you have no more 1/4 inch plate, or you blew up your last grinder wheel. Do you have anyone helping you? Do you have anyone who can bring parts for beer?

And, since you insist on being difficult, what parts do you have? And what exactly do you know about doing a SAS? If you're gonna ask up to hold your hand, then you have to tell us what you have. Otherwise, jump into it like the rest of us did, and show that you have enough skill to get it done, no matter what.

Screw it, I'm done. someone else can tell you "hey, you can do it, it's easy, just do it, I did it, go for it, just do it dood!"

[79yoda]

dude i got 4 cars sittin in my driveway if i need to go get parts if thats what ur worried about. my step dad owns a metal scrap yard i got all the 1/4 plate i need and i have more then a few grinder wheels. and no i dont know anything about it except what ive read here and on other websites and ive talked to a couple guys who have done it and ive seen it on their trucks in person. what other info you want so i can get a question awnsered..?

[4Mogger]

I would buy the newest cleanest truck I could afford, a Tacoma even and get the 3.4. Then save for a SAS. If you were really serious about doing this you would already have the rig of your choice and be asking around for the best quality parts and the best prices on components. You need to quit asking questions about step #43 and actually complete step #1 (which is get the rig into your garage/onto your driveway!

[79yoda]

good point

[Hanr3]

how hard would you guys say it is for a generally new person to 4 wheeling to convert ifs to straight axle? i have all of the necessary tools... i think... but im wondering about stuff like axle placement and some thing i may have not thought of before. :confused: so if you guys can think of anything i might not have let me know. the truck would be a 86-88 toy single cab. thanks mike

Mike,
Lets do this. Not trying to be a smart arse or anything, just trying to get you going in the right direction.

how hard would you guys say it is for a generally new person to 4 wheeling to convert ifs to straight axle?
That all depends on what kind of skills you have, and what kind of rig are you trying to build. Are you building it for rocks, mud, trails, etc. What kind of suspension system do you want; springs/coils, 3 link, 4 link, etc.

but im wondering about stuff like axle placement and some thing i may have not thought of before.
Again, all depends on what you are building. Ther is no secret formula or Chilton manual for this. There are some excellent threads on this site to read and gain some valuable knowledge. At this point I think asking about axle placement is the least of your worries when swapping in a axle. Do you know what squat is, what about anti-squat? How about center of gravity? Approach angles, departure angles, spring rates, shackles, pinion angles, etc, etc, etc????

What have you forgotten? No idea, you didn't lay out a plan.

Read, search, read, search. Some guys take over a year planning a swap and another year accumulating parts. In the meantime. GO wheel your truck, even if it is IFS. See what others are doing, see where they go and you cannot, figure out what you have to do to go there as well. Stuffing solid axles under your rig is pointless in of itself without a plan. Do you even know what size tires you want to run? Will your engine be strong enough, how about the tranny and t-case? There is more to it then just putting solid axles under a truck. Are the axles strong enough to handle the tires and your driving style? Right now your start is a 86-88 Toy truck. I highly suggest you read everything you can in the Toy section, especially about swapping in axles. Oh and you'll also find your answers about Birfs.

[jwhoss76]

Mike,
I've got a fullsize Bronco that is a dedicated trail rig. I have been researching a SAS for nearly 3 years and I'm almost ready to get started.

Do yourself a favor, buy a solid axle Yota to start with. You can always modify the suspension later if you need to.

[Pazuzu]

Mike,
Lets do this. Not trying to be a smart arse or anything, just trying to get you going in the right direction.



Um...yeah. That's what I was trying to say :D

[robinhood150]

My standard reply when something like this comes up is if you have to ask, you're not ready for sas. You say you've been wheeling ifs for 2 years. Are you locked front and rear? Do you have dual transfer cases? It would take me months, if not a year to fully research a sas and I already know what's involved.

IFS runs the rubicon all the time. A good driver, ifs, locked front and rear, a gearing can run some pretty tough trails. Pazuzu and the others are right, learning with IFS teaches you things you don't learn with a more capable rig. You learn to read the terrain and take the proper line.

And you don't need to spend a bunch of money lifting IFS, infact, don't spend much money at all. Crank the tbars, put on a 4crawler 1" BL and throw on some 33s. If you really want to be higher, watch the for sale section and buy somebody's lift.

Also, you said you have a tube bender...is it a tube bender or a pipe bender?

[tj40ounce]

Not to rehash what has been already pointed out... When I sold my IFS lifed Silverado, I knew I wanted to sas a yota. After breaking weak IFS parts, I made the decision to sas now, not later. For me, it would be pointless to put money (i.e. front locker) into the IFS. In regards to the cost. It really comes down to your fab skills. If you are competent enough to make bracketry, shackles, weld, use a torch, etc., you can save a lot of money by building the compenents of a sas yourself.

Read the faq in the yota forum. There are links to cad drawings in there for making your own front drop hanger. If you don't have the skillz, then check out marlin crawler, sky mfg, all pro, or fror for a SAS kit.

There are benefits to buying a newer rig with IFS. You get the wider rear axle, IFS steering box, and EFI. You can get EFI on a stock SA truck, but not on the cheap. For me, it was cheaper to do a SAS than to buy an 85 EFI rig.

89 toy lb pu: $1600 (hit in the front end, new timing chain, etc.) --> $2300 w/licensing.

85' toy axle: $200
Sky hi steer : $400
Used 35's off the board: $400
steel: $100??
brake lines: $75
axle rebuild kit: $100
springs: rears up front + donor pack $20.
chevy rear springs: free.
shocks: $130 (pro comps... wish I would have spent more on BBCS or Bilstiens)

Multiple hours in the shop making parts and picking black boogers..... priceless

That puts me at $3,750 total. The link for the $2500 85' is good. Probably already sold if the rig is in good condition. Even if it didn't need anything, you would eventually want hi steer( recommended if you want to safely lift your rig and have good articulation) for $400 plus you need to buy an IFS steering box. New tires?? Wider rear IFS axle? upgraded front brakes?? EFI???

I am nowhere close to done w/gearing, dual cases, upgraded lockers (lincoln lockers are free), hydro assist, more tube, OBA?, etc. etc. etc.....

Like everyone else has said. Understand why you want to sas the truck. Don't just do it because it'st he cool thing to do. It is a big project. In the end, I'm glad I didn't buy an 85. While it was a ton of work, it was a blast to do. My $.3

[98taco]

Wow that opened my eyes. :eek: I'm going to stick with IFS for a while. I had never thought of that. My original plan was to sas and 3 link coil with 35's. I need 6'' of lift to fit 35's due to lift laws that means about 4'' of suspension and 2'' of body. So now I'm thinking I should just do the body lift and fit the biggest tires (hopefully 33's) and learn more about actual driving. Is that a sound plan? I suppose that is what the newb forum is for. I have a 98 tacoma.

[Pazuzu]

That's a sound plan. Although, I would suggest 1 inch Body lift (Roger Brown's stuff is good), and I think you can lift the Tacos another inch or two with coil spacers for cheap, and probably longer shackles in the rear. that should give about 3 good inches of lift, which will get you to 33s. Cheap, safe, easy, good to go for a while.

[98taco]

That's a sound plan. Although, I would suggest 1 inch Body lift (Roger Brown's stuff is good), and I think you can lift the Tacos another inch or two with coil spacers for cheap, and probably longer shackles in the rear. that should give about 3 good inches of lift, which will get you to 33s. Cheap, safe, easy, good to go for a while.
I was going to ask why on the 1 inch but I just went to Roger Browns site. There it explained why just extra hassle for the 2 inch. I just want to stay away from the suspension because I don't want to put the money in then rip it out in the future, I'll have to think about it thanks for the help though.

[Hanr3]

Um...yeah. That's what I was trying to say :D

You were my inspiration. :D
I just expounded on your thought. :smokin: