Worst Thing about a 2003 Dodge 3500 Cummings 6speed

[CWBYinJEEP]

Heya gang,

Could use some help making the plunge. I have done alot of research and been entertaining buying a 2003 Dodge Crew Cab Dually 4x4 6speed manual with Cumming HO. I have found "the one" and need to know whats the worst/most negative thing you can come up with if YOU HAVE OWNED a current generation Dodge 2500/3500 with Cummins HO and Manual. Dont need this to be a flame war of what make to buy, I like them all but think I love this one.

I already know the 4x4 is full time/ front drive shaft is always spinning (which by the way would love to hear of an upgrade/fix for this as it doesnt need to be spinning on the interstate) I will not go with an automatic as they just dont work with me and I have ruled out Ford and Chevy's Manual.

Fire away, I need help coming to my senses if there's a reason to.

On another note I have placed my current tow rig up for sale in the classified section, look at signature.

Thanks

[TEX]

If it were me, I'd upgrade to the Cummins engine instead of that junky Cummings :p


TEX

[RedneckTaco]

Heya gang,

Could use some help making the plunge. I have done alot of research and been entertaining buying a 2003 Dodge Crew Cab Dually 4x4 6speed manual with Cummings HO. I have found "the one" and need to know whats the worst/most negative thing you can come up with if YOU HAVE OWNED a current generation Dodge 2500/3500 with Cummings HO and Manual. Dont need this to be a flame war of what make to buy, I like them all but think I love this one.

I already know the 4x4 is full time/ front drive shaft is always spinning (which by the way would love to hear of an upgrade/fix for this as it doesnt need to be spinning on the interstate) I will not go with an automatic as they just dont work with me and I have ruled out Ford and Chevy's Manual.

Fire away, I need help coming to my senses if there's a reason to.

On another note I have placed my current tow rig up for sale in the classified section, look at signature.

Thanks

IMO...the worst part about them is the 4.10 gearing. Leaves you a little wound out on the highway, but that can all be fixed by leveling it and jumping to 315s. Throw a Juice w/ attitude and 4" exhaust and some GUAGES and it's on like donkey kong!

[SanDiegoCJ]

IMO...the worst part about them is the 4.10 gearing. Leaves you a little wound out on the highway, but that can all be fixed by leveling it and jumping to 315s. Throw a Juice w/ attitude and 4" exhaust and some GUAGES and it's on like donkey kong!


They didn't all come with 4.10 gears. 3.73's were standard, and 4.10's were an option.

[TornadoTJ]

Correct, mine has 3.73's.

Bad things:
The emergency brake pedal pad falls off
It is hard to win races because 2nd gear is done so fast ;)
Being stuck in traffic can be a hassle, but I'd still get the 6 speed again

I really don't have many if any complaints about the truck. I still love it after almost 2 years and never have regretted buying it.

[CWBYinJEEP]

This one is supposed to have 3.73 gears, but thats relying on what the ad says. I've given up trying to lift my tow rigs, just doesnt make sense. I just want to know what the worst thing to suspect is. The truck will be under a 7 year/70k warranty and only has 19k that I'm looking at. I know the clutch will go probably around 80k with some moderate exhaust and chip mods. I am just wanting to know there are any wierd quirks like 99 fords and their garbage torque converters or the solenoid door locks dying at 50k or powersteering pumps failing prior to 100k, shit like that you dont find out till you own one. But this net sure is making it easier to find common denominators these days.

[CWBYinJEEP]

Thanks Tornado, that is exactly what I am looking for. I have also been told stay away from a high mileage Cummins HO with noisy (ford sounding) injectors. But I figure the one I am looking at is way under warranty.

Also Tornado,........how close are you to Cleburne, TX?????? Thats where the truck I am looking at is for sale. Sure wish I could get some independant eyes on it. Can get ya the hook up on any aftermarket motorcycle gear(wholesale + shipping) or one hell of an I O U when youre in Atlanta area if youre remotely near Cleburne and have some time to play shopper, hehehe

[MOOSEKNUCKLE]

Worst Thing About The Cummins With A 6 Speed Is That It's Not An 8 Speed :d

[4x4not]

Worst Thing About The Cummins With A 6 Speed Is That It's Not An 8 Speed :d
I hear that!

My only complaints so far are:
1) I have 4.10s and 245s, so my RPMs are WAY up on the highway. This will soon be solved by 315s or 35s though

2) The seats in mine are rock hard and sometimes my back hurts after a 3-4 hour non-stop trip. It really helps to take my wallet out of my back pocket. But fuel prices help keep that wallet thin :flipoff2:

3) The "4-5 gear miss", which happens to me very occasionally. The tranny pops right from 4th into R instead of 5th, but this can also be my shifting style. Never had a 6th speed before.

Otherwise I love my truck. Haven't done any heavy hauling yet as I haven't found a resonable trailer, but I'm sure the Cummins won't even know it's back there! The torque is incredible and she pulls like no other on the highway. I have a chip on order so it'll pull even better! All in all I think you are making a very good decision with a 3rd gen Dodge w/ the Cummins! You won't be disappointed

[TEX]

I hear that!

My only complaints so far are:
1) I have 4.10s and 245s, so my RPMs are WAY up on the highway. This will soon be solved by 315s or 35s though



Buddy of mine had that setup with a 12V & 5-speed & literally could not keep up with our 1/2 ton towrigs on the flat because he would start to overheat at 65 MPH. Granted, he could accelerate uphill in 5th at 30 MPH, but he was wound WAY too tight on the highway. Set of 33's fixed his problem :)


TEX

[SanDiegoCJ]

Buddy of mine had that setup with a 12V & 5-speed & literally could not keep up with our 1/2 ton towrigs on the flat because he would start to overheat at 65 MPH. Granted, he could accelerate uphill in 5th at 30 MPH, but he was wound WAY too tight on the highway. Set of 33's fixed his problem :)


TEX


I'll have to agree with TEX. I have the 4.10 gears, manual trans, and 235/80R-17's and IMO the truck would be a complete dog with taller tires or 3.73 gears. I already have to downshift to pull steep grades with the camper/trailer/Jeep combo.

[MOOSEKNUCKLE]

I'll have to agree with TEX. I have the 4.10 gears, manual trans, and 235/80R-17's and IMO the truck would be a complete dog with taller tires or 3.73 gears. I already have to downshift to pull steep grades with the camper/trailer/Jeep combo.

EXACTLY...The 4:10's are a must to get the show going and for the hill's, But once the thing is up and running on flat ground the extra two gears would be the shit! Light load.. one car, or a load in the bed at 100 the truck is twisting 3 grand :(
two car gooseneck or bumper pull, heavy load...4:10's with the 6 speed is ideal.

[TornadoTJ]

The engine itself has a 7 year 100,000 mile warranty standard, with a $100 deductible.

[ddestruel]

EXACTLY...The 4:10's are a must to get the show going and for the hill's, But once the thing is up and running on flat ground the extra two gears would be the shit! Light load.. one car, or a load in the bed at 100 the truck is twisting 3 grand :(
two car gooseneck or bumper pull, heavy load...4:10's with the 6 speed is ideal.



I ran hotshot for several years 24' goosenck with 12' ball hitch behind that, Montana wyoming, idaho, Colorado utah washington lots of high altitude and steep moutain passes.

My opinion is 4.10'as and a cummins are a pain in the ass except in california where you have to go 55mph with a trailer. :flipoff2: So my experience was with a 12v cummins and a 6spd 4x4 and i pulled 400k miles usualy hooked to a minimum of 15-20k lbs grossing between 22-30k lbs 75% of the time.

I ran 235's, 285s and 315 tires with 4.10 gears rpms were ok but on hills i was wound out in direct at 55-65 mph and that sucked. Outside of california i could run 65-75mph loaded down the highway and time is money. My fuel consumption with 4.10 empty was an average of 16 mpg and fully loaded 11.4

I upgraded to 3.54's to try and cut my fuel consumption on the top unloaded i gained 3-4 mpg cruising. i ran both 285's and 315's with the 3.54's with either of the tires my towing mileage didnot change but my empty mileage with 285's was at 19.8 and with the 315's 20.6. Yes my speedo was dialed in 100% accurate each time i changed tire sizes.

Towing mileage also gained 1 mpg at 24-30k lbs gross from a constant 11.3 mpg (averaged over 76k miles)i climbed to 12.4 (averaged over 153k miles) What i really liked was the ability to cruise loaded in OD down a road and then drop a gear when i wanted to pass someone and be able to use direct all the way up to 65-70 mph comfortably and it tached out at 75mph in direct. Ideally a true 33-34" tire was really nice, this time around for my tow rig im going to have a set of 315's and a set of 285's.

FYI you need the chip or in my case an adjusted pump to have the power or at least to enjoy the slightly taller gearing on the bottom end but the mid range is where you drive 4.10's almost always put you above or at the top of the torque curve of the cummins at any speed over 55mph so think about that before you believe what the magazines suggest for a towing gear ratio.

Most of the other guys that i ran with who also all grossed between 20-33k lbs gross ran 3.54's and 3.73's and alot of them ran a Geav Vender OD behind that. Reason being 3.54s and the 6spd in direct with the gear vendor in OD with 235 or 285 tires were the best for towing mileage kept the tranny temps cool and they could externally cool the gear vendor and when they were empty 3.54s with the gear vendor OD and the 6spd in Od ran you down the roasd between 1500-1800 rpm and kept your truck sippin the fuel and kept the empty towing mileage up.


If you were looking at an auto i would agree with 4.10s as the auto has a higher OD and benefits from the gearing with getting the torque converter to lock up ect but with a stick you can drive around a mild gearing offset and there is a benefit to drivability.

[SanDiegoCJ]

I ran hotshot for several years 24' goosenck with 12' ball hitch behind that, Montana wyoming, idaho, Colorado utah washington lots of high altitude and steep moutain passes.

My opinion is 4.10'as and a cummins are a pain in the ass except in california where you have to go 55mph with a trailer. :flipoff2: So my experience was with a 12v cummins and a 6spd 4x4 and i pulled 400k miles usualy hooked to a minimum of 15-20k lbs grossing between 22-30k lbs 75% of the time.

I ran 235's, 285s and 315 tires with 4.10 gears rpms were ok but on hills i was wound out in direct at 55-65 mph and that sucked. Outside of california i could run 65-75mph loaded down the highway and time is money. My fuel consumption with 4.10 empty was an average of 16 mpg and fully loaded 11.4

I upgraded to 3.54's to try and cut my fuel consumption on the top unloaded i gained 3-4 mpg cruising. i ran both 285's and 315's with the 3.54's with either of the tires my towing mileage didnot change but my empty mileage with 285's was at 19.8 and with the 315's 20.6. Yes my speedo was dialed in 100% accurate each time i changed tire sizes.

Towing mileage also gained 1 mpg at 24-30k lbs gross from a constant 11.3 mpg (averaged over 76k miles)i climbed to 12.4 (averaged over 153k miles) What i really liked was the ability to cruise loaded in OD down a road and then drop a gear when i wanted to pass someone and be able to use direct all the way up to 65-70 mph comfortably and it tached out at 75mph in direct. Ideally a true 33-34" tire was really nice, this time around for my tow rig im going to have a set of 315's and a set of 285's.

FYI you need the chip or in my case an adjusted pump to have the power or at least to enjoy the slightly taller gearing on the bottom end but the mid range is where you drive 4.10's almost always put you above or at the top of the torque curve of the cummins at any speed over 55mph so think about that before you believe what the magazines suggest for a towing gear ratio.

Most of the other guys that i ran with who also all grossed between 20-33k lbs gross ran 3.54's and 3.73's and alot of them ran a Geav Vender OD behind that. Reason being 3.54s and the 6spd in direct with the gear vendor in OD with 235 or 285 tires were the best for towing mileage kept the tranny temps cool and they could externally cool the gear vendor and when they were empty 3.54s with the gear vendor OD and the 6spd in Od ran you down the roasd between 1500-1800 rpm and kept your truck sippin the fuel and kept the empty towing mileage up.


If you were looking at an auto i would agree with 4.10s as the auto has a higher OD and benefits from the gearing with getting the torque converter to lock up ect but with a stick you can drive around a mild gearing offset and there is a benefit to drivability.



There's your difference. You're talking apples, I'm talking oranges. I have a stock truck, not "bombed". That makes a HUGE difference. With it stock you NEED the 4.10 gears IMO.

[CWBYinJEEP]

this is all very good info

[ddestruel]

There's your difference. You're talking apples, I'm talking oranges. I have a stock truck, not "bombed". That makes a HUGE difference. With it stock you NEED the 4.10 gears IMO.


LOL i had to throw that in there.

My truck was bombed later on, and went back and forth from close to stock to high hp most the other guys are usually stockers or only with Edge EZ chips (mild 60 hp or less upgrades) so with the 12v's we were all in the 215-230 hp 460-500 ft/lbs at the rear wheels (actually was funny stock many of our 12v trucks rear wheel dynod quite a bit more than factory specs) none of the guys were running over 550 ft/lbs as reliability went down and parts became expensive was the general concensus.(clutches failed alot at the time getting a quality clutch to hold over 500-550 ft/lbs and last over 60-80k miles was tuff with the loads we were pulling so heavy that the added HP wasnt efficient and really ripped up the disks fast, since then the clutch companys like SBC have come a long ways, at the lower hps most of us could get around 150k miles out of each clutch even expensive clutches at the time like centerforce just couldnt hold up to towing with any extra hp)

I ran 800 ft/lbs for a few years and after the clutch the turbo and everything else i have to say that looking back and adding up my down time compared to many of the other guys stock HP mile for mile or mild bombs got the jobs done efficiently and kept hte truck on the road.

but most of the guys i still know who have thier older trucks very few are running anywhere close to the 600 ft/lbs that the new trucks come with.

Another thing to though that should be mentioned is most of us went up in exhaust housings to 18.5cm instead of 12cm it slowed off the line spool up and lowered drive pressure which the lower drive pressure resulted in better mileage on long continuous rpm drives like Nevada 75 mph for 6-8 hours without stopping, picked up .5-.7 mpg lost hp gained torque on dyno. this works great for long durations of driving and proper gear selection and mileage but for day to day drivers bombs and smaller housings are more practical to get the tires turning faster.


Glad to help with a few tid bits

[Po' riggity]

3) The "4-5 gear miss", which happens to me very occasionally. The tranny pops right from 4th into R instead of 5th, but this can also be my shifting style. Never had a 6th speed before.

Ive heard about that from other people, and I just DON'T get it. Ive never driven a 6 spd either, but Ive NEVER missed the 4-5 shift, even from day one on the test drive. Makes no sense to me.

Im VERY happy with my bone stock, right down to the tires, 04.5 CTD 600... 2500, quad cab long bed 4x4..
Scott

[CWBYinJEEP]

Doing a little more research on pricing for all the easy bolt on mods and saw some conflicting info. What is the major difference between the 5.9 Cummins HO and standard 5.9 Cummins. I was under the impression there was a different HPOP and injection unit and tuned slightly different and that there wasnt any real major hardware differences. Yet on a performance diesel site I saw a Banks 6 gun performance package that noted the Banks Monster exhaust would not work on an HO. Just trying to understand the differences. Also did all 6 speed 3500's come with the 5.9L HO? or was it possible to get a non-HO 6 speed???

[SanDiegoCJ]

Doing a little more research on pricing for all the easy bolt on mods and saw some conflicting info. What is the major difference between the 5.9 Cummins HO and standard 5.9 Cummins. I was under the impression there was a different HPOP and injection unit and tuned slightly different and that there wasnt any real major hardware differences. Yet on a performance diesel site I saw a Banks 6 gun performance package that noted the Banks Monster exhaust would not work on an HO. Just trying to understand the differences. Also did all 6 speed 3500's come with the 5.9L HO? or was it possible to get a non-HO 6 speed???


HO's got the 6 sp. SO's got the 5 sp. There are a few internal differences
between the HO and SO. The HO has sprayers that spray oil on the under-
side of the pistons to help cool them. Starting in 04.5 ALL the CTD's were
the 600 ft/lb HO's with the 6 sp.

[4x4not]

I wasn't saying the 4.10s were GOOD, I'm saying they are annoying! The stock CTD 610 has PLENTY of power to pull the truck, and I'm sure it would be much better with 3.73s or 3.54s. I kinda wished I had read up a little more about the gearing before I got the 4.10s, but it only gives me a good excuse to get 315s or 35s :D

I guess if you haul really heavy loads in hill country the 4.10s would be perfect, but for hauler lighter loads (i.e. a trail rig) and in less-than-cliff-country the 3.73s would be a better match to keep the RPMs down. I have found the Cummins likes to run right about 2000rpms, and I've heard from several RV guys that the sweet spot is anywhere between 1800 and 2300rpms. Anything over than and fuel milage drops significantly, and below that the turbo lag really cuts down on umph. These engines were designed to run red line all day long (3200rpms) so 2500+ isn't going to hurt anything, but it does seem a bit high for the power, and again fuel milage will suffer.

I ordered a chip not as much for power, but to increase throttle response and to increase fuel economy. The extra 150+HP is just a bonus :flipoff2:

[jnutter]

I've got an '03 Dodge 2500 with the HO CTD and six speed.

Here's what I don't like - constantly shifting in slow traffic. Clutch is just a little on stiff side for enduring an hour of stop and go. Solution - '97 Wrangler with an automatic for daily driver.

Here's what I like - Knowing I won't have to drop $3K for transmission reapirs and upgrades like I did on my F250 with the 7.3 and automatic.

[crackhead]

If you ever want to pump up the truck don't buy the HO. You want none HO. It has something todo with the timming. Go to TruboDieselRegister.com and read about this. Thats all this web site talks about, is dodge diesel. It will be a big help.

[ddestruel]

its the fact that the HO's have higher compression ratios and more timing built into the computer equating into higher cylinder pressures.



Its more or less a non issue anymore as the chips take that into consideration and use it to thier benefit, selling chips that are setup for one or the other, the net giained hp is that different. SO compression ratio is 16.7:1 HO is 17.5:1 IIRC

The SO's have soft valve seats the Ho's have hardened valve seats the SO use plastic piston oil cooling jets the later Ho's use metal piston oil cooling jets. that seems to be how i remember it but whatever you get the jist

[crackhead]

I learn something new every day.

[Bigred84cj8]

Bobby, mine was the 6 speed with 4.10's in it. towed like a son of a gun but man was it a biatch in downtown traffic. Empty I usually started in 3rd on flat. Even when I was towing my jeep on the deckover I almost never used 1st to start unless I was on a hill. You'll be good with the 3.73 I put 37,000 miles on mine and never had a problem out of it. The constant shifting was my only gripe.

I did exhaust and had two programmers stacked on mine. The edge with attitude is a good choice. You can stack that one with another if you want more power. I also leveled mine and put 35's on it to try to overcome some of that gearing. Let me know if I can help you with anything.

Joe Mingledorff

[CWBYinJEEP]

Thanks Joe,.......Pretty much getting the kind of answers I was looking for. Seems to be alot of confusion with the Dodge platform cause it freakin changes every 1/2 year. But it would appear I have found the truck I want from all the info I am finding. I love my Excursion and I think I'm crazy for selling it after finally getting the Automatic right, but its still automatic and I'm tired hooking up a trailer for a 300lb dirt bike, or two or three. In a perfect world Id have the Dodge for my work duty and the Excursion for DD when I dont feel like riding one of the motorcycles to work in the weather,,........but we would all love to have it all???? Right.
Thanks gang, keep it coming if you have anything else to add. I pick up the new toy Monday AM.

[throttle king]

Congradulations! Cummins are pretty damn good. I get wood every time I fire up my 1st gen. Huge boner when I am towing my rig in the fast lane 70mph uphill passing everybody.

[ramv]

No way to stop the d/s from spinning , btw. Its not a big deal, its not like it will wear out any sooner then the rearend and there is no resistance other then the bearings so it doesn't affect mileage much

[CWBYinJEEP]

No way to stop the d/s from spinning , btw. Its not a big deal, its not like it will wear out any sooner then the rearend and there is no resistance other then the bearings so it doesn't affect mileage much


Gotcha, What the heck does a guy do who lifts a 3500 4x4 though? Saw a 2003 on EBAY a while back that was running 38's and the pinion angle couldnt be good for highway speeds. I will not be running 38's but still,.........

[steved]

Ive heard about that from other people, and I just DON'T get it. Ive never driven a 6 spd either, but Ive NEVER missed the 4-5 shift, even from day one on the test drive. Makes no sense to me.

Im VERY happy with my bone stock, right down to the tires, 04.5 CTD 600... 2500, quad cab long bed 4x4..
Scott

It is all about shifting...I miss it when I'm "in a hurry" sometimes...just used to pushing it way over there and get a little carried away. And actually it isn't just a single gear people complain about, the 6 spd is just harder to shift that most...even the dodge dealer acknowledged this and says that he sees them traded for auto all the time.


I like my 4.10s...as said, a little much for the highway, but for towing...awesome. The 600 with 4.10s, 315s, and 6spd is right at home and getting 20 mpg doing it!!

steved

[ramv]

Gotcha, What the heck does a guy do who lifts a 3500 4x4 though? Saw a 2003 on EBAY a while back that was running 38's and the pinion angle couldnt be good for highway speeds. I will not be running 38's but still,.........

Thats a good question, they do have pretty long drivetrain, it might be okay.... Also Skyjacker has an indexing ring to rotate the transfercase down that I think may work on the '03+

[Explorer]

We have the 3500 Cummins, 6-speed, Dualie, with 4.10s. I love the truck. It's been rock solid with no problems at all... until it puked it's rear end at 45,000. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366914 I know people who have over 100k on theirs with no rear end problems so I guess it's not to common a condition.

I have a set of 3.73 gears for this setup if anyone is interested. I had thought about swapping, but I've decided to keep the 4.10s.

[Dan shsss]

I would buy the truck for sure,, I have over 100k on my truck in my sig and the only parts to go so far were the rear u joints and the clutch master slave assembly,,

I tow at least two times a week and I pull this truck at the truck pulls all the time,, I love this truck and trust me I drive it hard,,And she is holding up great...

[WTTD]

Didn't read all the threads so forgive any repeat info, but here is what I have seen. The later 05's have the aluminum case Getrag 6-speed with a dual mass (oh shit) flywheel. The earlier 05's still had the NV5600 iron case trans, but they also have plastic ends on the intercooler that will blow off with after market boxes, but Dodge is now replacing them with the 03-04 style all aluminum intercoolers. All of the 3rd gen rear end failures I have heard about were caused by low fluid level (dealers are supposed to check that before they leave, but many did not and they were low).

[YJ4RoX]

I bought my 03, 2500 CTD 6spd in FEb. I have put 11k mile son it so far. Absolutely no complaints. Mine has 3.73's, stock tires and gets right at 20 mpg empty and 14 towing the jeep. Tow's great.

I have no 4-5th shift issues. My bud at work also has an 03' CTD 6 spd, 3500 SRW, no issues other than ujoints in the rear d-shaft. Well take that back, he bough this new it has 50k miles on it. Around 18k miles his valve cover leaked, saturated the clutch. Dodge replaced it all, gasket, clutch etc... No 4-5th shift issue.

Our company truck is an 03' 3500 Dually 6spd. NO issues at all with it. It does shift weird from 4-5th. Its very easy to miss 5th. That truck is beat on hard too.

No rear diff issues at all. My truck is smooth as silk, no vibes or anything.

[87yj38]

I have an '03 3500 4x4 but with an auto, so I cannot speak firsthand regarding the trans...

Mine has 22,000 miles on it, mostly towing and zero drivetrain problems at all. I have 33 Pro Comps on it and with the 4.10's, it tows like a dream. On my last tow to Harlan Ky I averaged 17 mpg hand calculated. I monitor my tranny temps and keep religeous service on the truck and it has not let me down.

I tow my 5000 lb YJ on a 2500 lb gooseneck and you honestly do forget the cargo is back there. But in hindsight, I wish I had bought the 6 speed for more control on descents. Maybe this fall I'll pick a new one up...

[brian4wd]

315s do not cut the 4.10s enough for unloaded DD situations. Towing is a different story - 315s, 4.10s and a Van Aaken is a great combo. Unloaded I wish I had 7th and 8th gears......

Brian

[BulldogCJ5]

I have a 2005 QC LB 4x4 with the HO and 6 speed. I absolutly love the towing with just the stock setup (16' trailer and jeep on it). Even when I had a 2005 3500 Chevy 4x4 QC LB truck on the 16foot trailer, my Dodge had no issues with pulling it up or down hills. I had a PacBrake exhaust brake installed from the dealer and it is a godsend. Going down hill, I don't even use the brakes unless someone cuts me off. Up hill (6% grades) has been in 6th with a seldom downshift to 5th. Mine came factory with a 4" exhaust from the turbo out.

I have a very smooth shifting NV5600, have also experienced the 4-5 shift issue. Not a big deal.

My only issue is it is a B**** to park.

Question I have after reading this post is, will the 315's adversely affect towing and DDing with the 3.73's? :confused:

[YJ4RoX]

I have an '03 3500 4x4 but with an auto, so I cannot speak firsthand regarding the trans...

Mine has 22,000 miles on it, mostly towing and zero drivetrain problems at all. I have 33 Pro Comps on it and with the 4.10's, it tows like a dream. On my last tow to Harlan Ky I averaged 17 mpg hand calculated. I monitor my tranny temps and keep religeous service on the truck and it has not let me down.

I tow my 5000 lb YJ on a 2500 lb gooseneck and you honestly do forget the cargo is back there. But in hindsight, I wish I had bought the 6 speed for more control on descents. Maybe this fall I'll pick a new one up...


Hey Jody, what exhaust did you say you had on your truck. It sounds great. I know I asked you, but there has been mass quantities of beer consumed between then and now. I just cant remember.

thanks
Jeremy

[jefe]

I have to agree with DDestuel about the gearing. I got 3.54's from the factory and have been very happy. I use 285-16's. The mill is stock H.O.(245HP/505TQ), and my CGVW with all the stuff in my sig it's a light 16,000 lbs. Yes, I have to downshift (to 5th) on some very steep hills, but motoring with my load at 55 (1600 rpm-nuts on peak torque) on the highway I'm getting 15+ mpg. Virtually no time is spent wishing I had shorter gearing. The sweet spot with my CTD is between 1800-2050 rpm. With 4.10's you are going pretty slow if on the sweet spot. If I never got on the highway and was consistently hauling 21,000 lbs. I would opt for the 4.10's. Now, about this, "I'll just get taller tires to make it like taller gearing". You loose some power and mpg just because of the unsprung weight of big meats. When I changed the stock 245/Michelin "E"'s over to the 285/AT's I noticed a drop in pickup and power on hills. It just feels more sluggish. This means I do downshift more in the mountains. It's not so bad, lugging below 1600 in 6th is very hard on that gear/bearings unless you are under no load, then O.K.
2 years ago, Jeanie and I did a trip of a lifetime to Alaska in the CTD/Lance camper. 9000 miles round trip from L.A. We took as many "Routes less travelled" up there as we could find. McCarthy Road, Prudhoe Bay Haul Road, about 2500 miles of dirt or gravel roads. We took jeep trails down to lakes and camped right on sandbars of some rivers. Great. With the Lance Lite on the Dodge, all our stuff and people, the rig weighs about 9800 lbs. We drove as road conditions would allow at 65 to 75 mph a lot of the time. Never felt over geared or overreved. At 75 i'm turning about 2100 rpm, and my fuel consumption spikes right up there.
Do I wish I had more power? Sure, there's no end to that story. Do I want 4.10 gears. Nope.
regards, as always, jefe

[87yj38]

Hey Jody, what exhaust did you say you had on your truck. It sounds great. I know I asked you, but there has been mass quantities of beer consumed between then and now. I just cant remember.

thanks
Jeremy

It's a 4" Flow Pro muffler, with 4" pipe from the downpipe back. I topped it off with a 5" chrome tip...

Was about $200 from my local muffler shop for everything.

[jedrattle]

315s do not cut the 4.10s enough for unloaded DD situations. Towing is a different story - 315s, 4.10s and a Van Aaken is a great combo. Unloaded I wish I had 7th and 8th gears......

Brian


Gear vendors!!! :smokin: My `05 6sp gets one next year ( I hpe!! :laughing: )

[noclinkers]

I tow with mine every day. I have the 24V HO/with the BD 60hp chip and I get 16 mpg with 33" tires and 4:10 gears. Love my truck! 150.000 miles and all I've done is changed oil and brake pads.

[Tim84K10]

Worst Thing About The Cummins With A 6 Speed Is That It's Not An 8 Speed :d

Yep!! Even with 3.73s, I want at least one more gear, if not two!!

Didn't read all the threads so forgive any repeat info, but here is what I have seen. The later 05's have the aluminum case Getrag 6-speed with a dual mass (oh shit) flywheel. The earlier 05's still had the NV5600 iron case trans, but they also have plastic ends on the intercooler that will blow off with after market boxes, but Dodge is now replacing them with the 03-04 style all aluminum intercoolers. All of the 3rd gen rear end failures I have heard about were caused by low fluid level (dealers are supposed to check that before they leave, but many did not and they were low).

Uh, no jackass.

The new trucks have a Mercades Benz G-56 6 speed. Yes it is aluminum. No it is not a Getrag.

I have heard of no failures of the plastic intercooler, nor the dual mass flywheel and clutch assembly.

4.10s and a 6 speed sucks. I walked on a good truck for a good price because it had 4.10s. Too much shifting, and they rev too high on the road. I don't even think 35s could help it. My truck has 3.73s and I wish it had 3.55s. It has way more power than I need and it'd make for much better mileage. I can get 18 MPG all day long at 65, and even better at 55 mph, but at 70 it starts to drop, and if you run 75 mph all day long, you'll hardly crack 14 MPG. If you're going to run 4.10s, you need more overdrive. The 3.73s are a good compromise, but I think that 3.55s would be better, even loaded, this thing has a LOT of balls.

The 5th gear missing thing won't happen with the new G-56, reverse is to the left and down now. I wish it was to the right and down, but you can't have everything I guess.

[steved]

The new trucks have a Mercades Benz G-56 6 speed. Yes it is aluminum. No it is not a Getrag. I have heard of no failures of the plastic intercooler, nor the dual mass flywheel and clutch assembly.

4.10s and a 6 speed sucks. I walked on a good truck for a good price because it had 4.10s. Too much shifting, and they rev too high on the road. I don't even think 35s could help it. My truck has 3.73s and I wish it had 3.55s. It has way more power than I need and it'd make for much better mileage. I can get 18 MPG all day long at 65.



Actually, if you read...the tranny is a Dana...it is made for Dana by Getrag...the local dodge dealer even told me this and showed this to me in some literature he had there...some of the smaller trannies in the cars are mercedes. We have had this discussion a few times on PS.com. I believe it is too early to tell if the new tranny will give touble..I do know ford has issues with some of their dual mass flywheels...time will tell if dodge will too. I'm glad I got a NVG5600 in some respects.

And, you only get 18mpg with 3.73s? I get almost 20 mpg with 315s and 4.10s with a 6 spd (with the 600CTD to boot)...has your's broken in yet or have you had it flashed lately?? Had mine flashed for "driveability"...an instant 2 mpg. Mine is starting to break in at 45k...I see a trend of better mileage from my records.

I agree that 4.10s can be monotonous in traffic, but I don't really see where 3.73 are much different...especially since the new tranny has a lower OD ratio than a 5600. That is why they don't offer anything but 3.73s in the new trucks with the new 6 speed.

steved

[Tim84K10]

Actually, if you read...the tranny is a Dana...it is made for Dana by Getrag...the local dodge dealer even told me this and showed this to me in some literature he had there...some of the smaller trannies in the cars are mercedes. We have had this discussion a few times on PS.com. I believe it is too early to tell if the new tranny will give touble..I do know ford has issues with some of their dual mass flywheels...time will tell if dodge will too. I'm glad I got a NVG5600 in some respects.

And, you only get 18mpg with 3.73s? I get almost 20 mpg with 315s and 4.10s with a 6 spd (with the 600CTD to boot)...has your's broken in yet or have you had it flashed lately?? Had mine flashed for "driveability"...an instant 2 mpg. Mine is starting to break in at 45k...I see a trend of better mileage from my records.

I agree that 4.10s can be monotonous in traffic, but I don't really see where 3.73 are much different...especially since the new tranny has a lower OD ratio than a 5600. That is why they don't offer anything but 3.73s in the new trucks with the new 6 speed.

steved

The tranny is not Dana, not a Getrag. This tranny is used in many medium duty MB applications. Either way it shifts like a car, and I love it. My only complaints are that reverse is in the wrong place (But it is on the NV 5600, too) and 6th is too low yet, I'd like to have a .73 OD like you. Other than that, I love it, it shifts smooth and fast, and the gear spacing is just about right, if not a little close.

315s throw off your speedometer so it's impossible for you to know what you're actually getting. Furthermore, if you're using the overhead, and not a hand calculated measurement, that's not accurate anyway, especially if you have a chip. I log all my mileage in a spreadsheet that calculates it based on every time I get fuel.

The 4.10s are insane in traffic because they make the gears closer together. It has nothing to do with the final drive ratio that makes them annoying.

My truck only has 3,400 miles on it as of yesterday, so it's not quite broken in yet.

[ddestruel]

The G-56 is built by DaimlerChrysler's Commercial Vehicles Division and has reportedly been in use behind the MBE 900 diesel in Europe for the last 2 years in MDT's. The MBE 900 is available in ratings of 150-300 HP and up to 860 FT LB torque.

The following Motive Gear chart http://www.motivegear.com/Transmission/new_vent_chart.html on New Venture transmissions gives the torque rating for the NV 5600 as 550 lb.ft., ie: 750 N-m Motive Gear. By Comparison, this Mercedes-Benz news article lists the G56 as being rated at only 580 N-m or, applying the conversion factor of 0.737, approximately 427 lb.ft. Mercedes-Benz News Exploring http://www.benzworld.org/news/news.asp?id=106 Mercedes Light trucks I found that the G56 was coupled to relatively low powered I-4 diesels producing about 170 HP whereas the higher more powerful Merceded I-6 medium duty engine was tied to the G85. I fail to understand DC's placement of the G56 behind the powerful Cummins 325/610 if the ratings I researched are correct. Could they have put that DMF in front of it just to protect the inadequate trany?

Using the advertised numbers The G56 is GVWR 7-10 ton in a chassis and 12 tons GCVWR The NV5600 is GVWR 8-10 ton and GCVWR for 13 tons.

My decision on the NV 5600 was also influenced by the fact that I couldn't find out what level of warranty would apply to the DMF.

the math could be off but those seem to be the right conversion factors.

And traditionally Ford & Chevy have tried multiple times to run dual mass flywheels, ford went back to a solid mass for awhile because of continued issues and they have found out on the higher HP especially diesels that they tend to seperate between 100-150k miles, just past the warranty. hmm wonder if they are anticipating more predicatable service work.

It does queit down the motor and soften engagement but it think its benefits do not outweigh its drawbacks. Also find a medium duty truck even from MB that runs a dual mass, i seem to recall a few including MB trying it in the 90's and the result was with every clutch job you had to purchase a new flywheel. Clutch life ont eh dual mass flywheels were less than with the same trucks that had been changed over to solid flywheels

[Tim84K10]

DC is essentially done with Dana for fullsize trucks. They stopped buying axles years ago and they're not about to start a contract for trannies. It's a Mercades transmission.

Mine has had no problems. I understand that it's used with smaller HP engines in medium duty applications...but the GVWR is higher, as well. I think load is much more important than engine torque when detirmining how well it'll hold up, but time will tell.

[CWBYinJEEP]

Well here it is after picking it up 12 days ago. Already made some "adjustments" with the hood and grille. Also on order are the MagHytec diff pan, MBRP 4" exhaust, some gauges and still thinking about a Ramifier fuel box. Now if I could just add a 7th gear/OverDrive to it. Oh well, I dont need to be doing more then 85 anyhow.

[ddp1]

CWBYinJEEP, hey it looks like mine did a while back. The main issue is driveline vibration at 70.
Wait a few more weeks, the Edge production unit Juice boxes will be out. The BETA's are out since last Friday, and they are worth the wait for the 03-04 "555" motors. The 600 version has been out for awhile now.
The 3.73's are perfect if you do not change the tire size at all.
I ran stock for 15K, then 265/70R19.5's (35inches tall)for another 15K, then switched from DRW to SRW and ran 315's for 10K, then 37inch MTR's for 17K(they wore out from 500HP and 1000+ FtLb torque.)
Now I run 37inch Toyos(they are almost 38 inches tall), and the truck runs great, even towing 14K. If I towed more, I'd switch to 4.10's. The 3.73's will work great. At 75, your turning about 2200RPM, which is perfect for this motor, but stock, it feels like it's almost done. Thus the chips make up for that.
Rick(Explorer), you moved out near me it would appear. Hope things are good.