A bunch of us locals went up to the little Jergens trail today for some fun and to play on the rocks. We were there only about 20 minutes and were watching a couple Jeeps playing when the game warden showed up and got on his loud speaker, ordering us all off the rocks and to line up with driver's license in hand. He was gonna take all our names and info and if we were ever caught down there again, our rigs WOULD BE CONFISCATED, PERIOD. Not impounded, but TAKEN PERMANENTLY. He said someone had called and complained that we were 'destroying the environment'. We all gathered around and talked to him for about 30 minutes about the fact that we had been going to the meetings about this place and we were aware of the endangered species and all the homeowners concerns and that we were just playing on the rocks. Not destroying vegetation or driving in the water or anything. He finally calmed down and saw that we were not the bunch of IDIOTS he had first though we were. He finally said 'forget' the taking of names but we were to stay the hell off the rock pile cause that isn't part of the trail. It's BLM land down to just near the bottom where it becomes Fish and Game land. The rockpile is located on Fish and Game land...

So, I'm passing on the warning. He said it was ok to drive down there but to stay on the designated trail and you're welcome to park and fish or hang out but STAY OFF THE ROCKS. He's gonna be very upset if he gets called back for this. Also, a fellow showed up about the same time as the game warden, on a red and white off-road motorcycle. When asked if he was the one who called, he (of course) said 'no'. I don't think I believed him. He lives up near the beginning of the trail and he obviously knew the warden. :rolleyes:

Warden also stated we could not camp overnight there. For those of you who go down there, please, STAY OFF THE ROCKPILE by the river. I hate having to say, 'I told you so'...

If we cannot get organized and or police ourselves this hobby will go away. Wheeling is a privilege not a right.:D

Yup what Glenn said! I was there too. Let me tell you I won't be going back for quite sometime!! Until I know for sure that the BLM has control of that piece of land! Save your self a LARGE Headache and stay out!! :flipoff: GREENIES

:flipoff2: thats why they will close that place down, just like salmon falls rd. that is a :rainbow: little dirt road. i dont see the reason to want to go there. thats not wheeling, that place has the same problem as Bassie falls. lots of people going there and not respecting rules of the trail, that being STAY ON THE TRAIL. if you need to play on the rocks then go COMPETE. There will be plenty of rocks at CAL-ROCS and no game wardens to piss off or homeowners for that matter.:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Well, I happen to like that little trail and I do stay off the rocks at the river. But, every time I've been down there, someone is working the rockpile. :eek: The ranger insists that we stay off the rocks until the whole thing gets sorted out with BLM. If Fish and Game turns over their little parcel to BLM, then BLM will make the rules. I can almost gurantee they will say the same thing. Stay Off The Rocks...

The homeowners biggest concerns are FIRE, Shooting and Noise. Especiallly noise in the middle of the night. Reving big blocks with loud mufflers, booming stereos, people screaming like wild hyena's. (Does this sound like YOU???) Have some respect for the trail, the environment and the people that live around there and they might let us keep this little :rainbow: trail for a while longer. Keep burning, shooting and tearing it up and kiss it goodbye forever... :(

Yeah... the whole ordeal certainly led do a disappointing afternoon. I had been looking forward to going out and spending some time outside after last week being so crazy here at work.. Then to just get told to leave was rather upsetting. Thanks to Glenn, Glenn, and others who attended many meetings with BLM biologists, etc to at least be able to calm down the warden.

Good thing the warden didn't come down the 4wd access from Jergens Rd and see all the trash dumped off the edge.. Serious cleanup effort is going to need to take place to get Jergens clean.

Unfortunately most of the trash was probably just taken out and dumped by someone who doesnt use the trail for recreational purposes. But, there was also just a few too many of the occasional beer can tossed into the weeds along the trail. This needs to stop, or we can be sure to lose more than just the rocks at the bottom of the trail.

-Matt

IF, IF that gay little dirt road is still wet and or muddy you guys should not be there.... PERIOD!!.

We walked the trail with the BLM a few weeks ago and the issue is EROSION, you guys gotta understand that place is a federal plant preserve!!!!!!!!!!!! not an OHV park!!!!!!!!!

There is a slight chance permitted cold camping MAY be allowed in the future but no REAL wheeling. If your going down there in the wet season, ie mud in you tires, YOU ARE just helping the greenies permintely close the place for all of us...

At the last public meeting we all agreed to self police ourselfs there and STAY THE FUCK OUT untill the trail is hardened in summer!!!!!

Well, except for a couple puddles up top, it's pretty much dried up. Hasn't rained in a while so we did no damage just driving down the trail. You know I wouldn't go down there if it was really wet and muddy. The ranger said it was ok to drive the trail. It's not closed and he saw no problem with driving down there as long as you stay on the trail and off the rocks by the river and stay off the side trails too. Also, no 'high-banking' as he put it. Driving up on the high sides of the trail or trying to climb straight up dirt embankments along the trail. Yeah, :rolleyes: someone has been doing that. (not the few people in our little group though)...

I know you'd use good judgement Glenn, my "trails getting closed" vent wasn't directed at you... it was just a heads up to everyone.
Keep in mind that State Fish and Game guy's only concern/jurisdiction is with the tiny little portion of the preserve that is state land, NOT the trail. Unfortunetly ALL the rocks are located on that one little state parcel.

Why is this news, Glenn? imuz me? mtadams?

We KNEW the area at the bottom was Fish & Game, and we KNEW it had not yet been transferred into BLM, and we discussed that it would be good to stay off that land.... We have discussed all that stuff here before. That's certainly stuff we discussed in the planning sessions that went on for more than a year!

Do a search (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?s=) for Jergens and do a little reading.... or if you won't do that, post a query to this board before you go, and someone will let you know the status.

'I don't know" is not a good enough excuse. It is YOUR responsibility to ask questions in advance.

Glenn, you're the only fella I know personally that has posted in this thread that was there... can you write up a fairly detailed version of the events and email it to me. Perhaps we can do a little damage control and mail this to F&G and BLM to show both sides of the story.... because I'd bet big money that the locals will report it (they always do -- hell, I think they make up stuff to report) and the game warden will, too.

Randii
randii@pacbell.net

Originally posted by randii
Why is this news, Glenn? imuz me? mtadams?

We KNEW the area at the bottom was Fish & Game, and we KNEW it had not yet been transferred into BLM, and we discussed that it would be good to stay off that land.... We have discussed all that stuff here before. That's certainly stuff we discussed in the planning sessions that went on for more than a year!

Do a search (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?s=) for Jergens and do a little reading.... or if you won't do that, post a query to this board before you go, and someone will let you know the status.

'I don't know" is not a good enough excuse. It is YOUR responsibility to ask questions in advance.

Glenn, you're the only fella I know personally that has posted in this thread that was there... can you write up a fairly detailed version of the events and email it to me. Perhaps we can do a little damage control and mail this to F&G and BLM to show both sides of the story.... because I'd bet big money that the locals will report it (they always do -- hell, I think they make up stuff to report) and the game warden will, too.

Randii
randii@pacbell.net

Randii... I'll send you something. I won't name any names myself but there were several folks we all know that were there. Probably about 10 rigs total but only two or three rigs drove on the rockpile. The rest of us parked on or right beside the designated trail...

Originally posted by randii
Why is this news, Glenn? imuz me? mtadams?

We KNEW the area at the bottom was Fish & Game, and we KNEW it had not yet been transferred into BLM, and we discussed that it would be good to stay off that land.... We have discussed all that stuff here before. That's certainly stuff we discussed in the planning sessions that went on for more than a year!

Do a search (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?s=) for Jergens and do a little reading.... or if you won't do that, post a query to this board before you go, and someone will let you know the status.

'I don't know" is not a good enough excuse. It is YOUR responsibility to ask questions in advance.

Glenn, you're the only fella I know personally that has posted in this thread that was there... can you write up a fairly detailed version of the events and email it to me. Perhaps we can do a little damage control and mail this to F&G and BLM to show both sides of the story.... because I'd bet big money that the locals will report it (they always do -- hell, I think they make up stuff to report) and the game warden will, too.

Randii
randii@pacbell.net
It will be a cold day in hell before I dont visit public lands because of a jack-ass mud puddle. No damage to the road caused by us driving down there. You have got to be kidding me, now I cant drive on a dirt road if it makes my tires a bit muddy. This crap is going to come to a head one day.

Uh, it sounds like it's coming to a head RIGHT NOW! Or are you going to wait until you have to wheel in your backyard to wake up?
I don't live in CA so don't know how bad it truly is there but have seen some of the local BS out here.
Yes, it sucks that we have to tiptoe around but that's the way the tide's going.

So is Jergens closed right know or is just the rocks at the bottom closed?:confused:

One problem with this or any place getting shut down is not the loss of one wheeling spot. It will be ammunition for any future closures as the govt or greenies see fit. They will bring in this as an example of a successful closure.

so is that a yes the whole trail is closed or a yes the trail is opened and just the rocks at the bottom are closed????

The trail is open until you come to the sign at the bottom that says "Now leaving public lands" After that it is Fish & Games property and you have to park and walk.

coo thx, thats all i wanted to know.

Originally posted by Keith

It will be a cold day in hell before I dont visit public lands because of a jack-ass mud puddle. No damage to the road caused by us driving down there. You have got to be kidding me, now I cant drive on a dirt road if it makes my tires a bit muddy. This crap is going to come to a head one day.

NO, the federal govermant is not kidding you!!
If your tires are getting mudded up that means your transporting soil, which is by definition "eroding or destroying" the trail. Here in CA, especially in the Federally Protected, Pine Hill Plant Preserve destroying trails is pretty much NOT ACCEPTED and is THE MAIN REASON our trails are being closed!!

Please do us all, including youreslf, a favor and try and get a little educated!!

addtionaly, In fact the trail is supposed to be closed during the wet season EXACTLY like it was LAST YEAR!!!!!!!!!! the only reason the gate is not locked is because it was vandalized to the extream.
If ya really want the facts, visit the BLM office in Folsom, ask em how you can help keep the place from getting shut, ask em for some trash bags to clean up the place, maybe then thay'll say soon as it's dry,(end of march i think), go in ?? that would truly be a win-win situation.!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Hate to tell yall but the greenies:flipoff2::flipoff2: :flipoff2:
won't settle till all the roads are closed no matter what. As far as cleaning up after ourselves goes..
Yeah great idea but who cleans up after all the others that visit the trails..?(no need pointing fingers) I don't wheel but KEITH has a point. It will be a cold day in hell before I lay down and give it all up

On another note, the folks on this bulletin board are not just the only people who wheel, I think some forget that at times. A lot of bitching goes on between us on this board about what needs to be done to keep trails open. All of us here know what needs to be done. It is now our responsibility to relay a lot of the good ideas that come up here to the non-board using offroad crowd and get them involved.

Originally posted by FLASHLIGHTMAN


NO, the federal govermant is not kidding you!!
If your tires are getting mudded up that means your transporting soil, which is by definition "eroding or destroying" the trail. Here in CA, especially in the Federally Protected, Pine Hill Plant Preserve destroying trails is pretty much NOT ACCEPTED and is THE MAIN REASON our trails are being closed!!

Please do us all, including youreslf, a favor and try and get a little educated!!
You think by going to the meetings and having the "yes sir, anything you say sir" attitude is going to keep the trail open????? Wake up dude, all that is, is complying with whatever anyone requests. This whole area is becoming soooooooo liberal, you wont be able to do anything around here. Fish and Game cop said if his biologist had it his way, there would not even be any foot traffic at Jergens. Give me a BREAK! They will keep taking and taking until the people who want to retain these RIGHTS, stand up for them. These liberals are the same people that move to the Sac area, bitch about how "wheelers" are destroying natural habitat, and commute to the Bay Area with their polluting cars, to work. You can keep kissing there ass, just use lots of chapstick. The only thing that will change our status is if this type of recreation becomes profitable for the politicians. Just like ski areas. Once they get a bit of money in their pockets for it, you bet we would have more places, more often to enjoy. Sorry for sounding sooooooo down about this matter, but face it, it is pretty depressing.

When I was down there, I was tossing a stick into the water for my dog to fetch, and noticed that she was stirring up some silt and it was running down the river. Was I being a enviro masher? What about when someone wants to go to the American and look for gold with a sluice box. They go up on the bank, did under some boulders, fill a 5 gallon bucket, then walk to the sluice box and dump it in. All the dirts washes downstream. What the fawk does that person think he is doing? How dare he!!!!! All those houses being built above Browns Ravine. They stripped the hillsides and ran bulldozers over it to build lots and roads. Man was that a mess.

What is it going to take to bring this crap to an end? I dont know, but closing the Jergens area due to some plant that grows on hard soil, that is not even near the road, is simply just a pile of stinky "Liberal" garbage. I only have one interest in educating myself, and it is not in deep bunghole tongue plunging!

Originally posted by Keith

You think by going to the meetings and having the "yes sir, anything you say sir" attitude is going to keep the trail open????? Wake up dude, all that is, is complying with whatever anyone requests. This whole area is becoming soooooooo liberal, you wont be able to do anything around here. Fish and Game cop said if his biologist had it his way, there would not even be any foot traffic at Jergens. Give me a BREAK! They will keep taking and taking until the people who want to retain these RIGHTS, stand up for them. These liberals are the same people that move to the Sac area, bitch about how "wheelers" are destroying natural habitat, and commute to the Bay Area with their polluting cars, to work. You can keep kissing there ass, just use lots of chapstick. The only thing that will change our status is if this type of recreation becomes profitable for the politicians. Just like ski areas. Once they get a bit of money in their pockets for it, you bet we would have more places, more often to enjoy. Sorry for sounding sooooooo down about this matter, but face it, it is pretty depressing.

When I was down there, I was tossing a stick into the water for my dog to fetch, and noticed that she was stirring up some silt and it was running down the river. Was I being a enviro masher? What about when someone wants to go to the American and look for gold with a sluice box. They go up on the bank, did under some boulders, fill a 5 gallon bucket, then walk to the sluice box and dump it in. All the dirts washes downstream. What the fawk does that person think he is doing? How dare he!!!!! All those houses being built above Browns Ravine. They stripped the hillsides and ran bulldozers over it to build lots and roads. Man was that a mess.

What is it going to take to bring this crap to an end? I dont know, but closing the Jergens area due to some plant that grows on hard soil, that is not even near the road, is simply just a pile of stinky "Liberal" garbage. I only have one interest in educating myself, and it is not in deep bunghole tongue plunging!

Keith, mellow out, you were not at the meetings, no one was licking the BLM's Bunghole. Had we not attended it would have been a done deal. We were able to substantialy change what is going forward in the BLM recomendation. We made such a huge difference, that the homeowners are most likly pissed, and the best they could muster was having you guys harrased. But geuss what, you guys shined in the way you handled it, and did a great job representing the wheeling community in a postive light to the F&G Ranger.

Lets quit fighting amoungst ourselves, does nothing to help

Steve, we should not even have been approached. Homeowners up there just want to keep the land that is PUBLIC, all to themselves.
I wont go to the meetings, the whole thing is a serious joke. There is no way we can control the asshole off-roader. No matter what the outcome, someone will ruin it, just like they ruined the gate. Also realize that not all folks who use that area, are members of the PBB, not all people may get the word if the trail is opened or closed. The F&G cop on Sunday said the road was not closed, and did not give a fawk that we drove down it. Gate is not locked, no rain for quite sometime, just a few puddles on top.....are people supposed to think the road is closed? WTF. Self policing is the only way we have a chance. Wait til July 4th weekend at the con, that will surely be the last straw. Waaaaaaayyyyyyy too many people drinking and not being responsible, and way too much poop. You guys are in a dream if you think everyone is going to pack out their crap. Wake up......

The whole situation is :rainbow: and for somebody to tell someone they have no idea who they are talking about to get themselves educated is not very smart either!! I know Keith is very well educated and he (we) might not be at those meetings but we are on the trail taking care of the other hands on crap I don't see most of you doing!:mad2: :usa: :smokin:

Rob, I know where you could get a job.......Forest Service.......

......yeah so all these guys could hate me!!:D

I might like that!!:skull:

Originally posted by Keith
Rob, I know where you could get a job.......Forest Service.......

:laughing: And when you start getting that regular paycheck, don't forget that you still owe ole Glenn a few 'Ben Franklins'. :eek: :D:D:D

you sayin I still owe you 200.00 bucks.....:eek:

Last I heard, Ben Franklin was dead:D

I think the main thing to consider is that this trail WOULD ALREADY BE CLOSED if not for some concerned wheelers that attended the meetings and at least showed our side of the argument.
You can bitch about how unfair it is and how they won't stop until they have won and go on and on about how you don't give a fuck what they say you will do it anyways but the truth is that in this case going to the meetings and coming to somewhat of a consensus DID help our position. Sure it may not be as good as it was in the beginning but it's a lot better than it could be. Am I happy about this? NO I would much rather things just be left alone the way they were but unfortunately that's just a dream at this point and I'd have to be high to think it was any more.

Originally posted by Keith
Steve, we should not even have been approached. Homeowners up there just want to keep the land that is PUBLIC, all to themselves.
I wont go to the meetings, the whole thing is a serious joke. There is no way we can control the asshole off-roader. No matter what the outcome, someone will ruin it, just like they ruined the gate. Also realize that not all folks who use that area, are members of the PBB, not all people may get the word if the trail is opened or closed. The F&G cop on Sunday said the road was not closed, and did not give a fawk that we drove down it. Gate is not locked, no rain for quite sometime, just a few puddles on top.....are people supposed to think the road is closed? WTF. Self policing is the only way we have a chance. Wait til July 4th weekend at the con, that will surely be the last straw. Waaaaaaayyyyyyy too many people drinking and not being responsible, and way too much poop. You guys are in a dream if you think everyone is going to pack out their crap. Wake up......

I hear ya Keith, we won't change the assholes now or in the future, but I will never dog someone out for trying to help, it's better to die trying then to just let it happen without a fight, geez, Cali went even more to shit while I was up in Oregon .......

There's no way the impact from the traffic on that road will ever come close to the damage that has been done, and will be done as development continues, so ya, bottom line is it is always about dollors and who's pockets get filled. The major damge in reagrds to all the plants etc was done a long time ago predomently in the Cameron Pk. area many, many years ago. It's just an excuse that is being abused by the people in that area who want the Public land to be there private playground.

Guess what, go ahead, close it off to the good people, the assholes will still be a problem, closure won't solve anything in regards to trash and idiots

Originally posted by Whitewater
I think the main thing to consider is that this trail WOULD ALREADY BE CLOSED if not for some concerned wheelers that attended the meetings and at least showed our side of the argument.
You can bitch about how unfair it is and how they won't stop until they have won and go on and on about how you don't give a fuck what they say you will do it anyways but the truth is that in this case going to the meetings and coming to somewhat of a consensus DID help our position. Sure it may not be as good as it was in the beginning but it's a lot better than it could be. Am I happy about this? NO I would much rather things just be left alone the way they were but unfortunately that's just a dream at this point and I'd have to be high to think it was any more.

Let me see. Hmmmmm. Better than it could be huh. If getting harassed by the F&G, threatened my rig will be impounded, treated like a god damn criminal, kicked off the prem, is better than it could be, then I would hate to see what it is really going to be like.

Originally posted by Glenn


:laughing: And when you start getting that regular paycheck, don't forget that you still owe ole Glenn a few 'Ben Franklins'. :eek: :D:D:D

Damn I geuss I should have sold that hardtop and tailgate from that Blazer myself cause I figure If I still owe you that amount then you either didn't sell them or just gave them away figureing I would make the difference!!:(

Originally posted by Keith


Let me see. Hmmmmm. Better than it could be huh. If getting harassed by the F&G, threatened my rig will be impounded, treated like a god damn criminal, kicked off the prem, is better than it could be, then I would hate to see what it is really going to be like.

I hear you Keith but my point is that at least we can still go down there. Heck I didn't know driving on the rocks wasn't allowed and I've been going down there for the better part of 10 years now. :eek:
I strongly agree this whole issue is a big piece of stinky shit and wish it would all go away. I'd really like to find the asshole that called DFG and talk to him to find out exactly what his intentions are and just to see if he is stand up enough of a man to outright say he is a greedy asshole that wants the land for his own selfish wants. Or maybe it's just the fact that he is jealous that other people are having a good time. Who knows. This whole thing makes me sick. :mad:

Originally posted by Whitewater


I hear you Keith but my point is that at least we can still go down there. Heck I didn't know driving on the rocks wasn't allowed and I've been going down there for the better part of 10 years now. :eek:
I strongly agree this whole issue is a big piece of stinky shit and wish it would all go away. I'd really like to find the asshole that called DFG and talk to him to find out exactly what his intentions are and just to see if he is stand up enough of a man to outright say he is a greedy asshole that wants the land for his own selfish wants. Or maybe it's just the fact that he is jealous that other people are having a good time. Who knows. This whole thing makes me sick. :mad:

Ditto..... I know I have been a whinny biotch lately. Believe me, I am on your side, I just sound like a punk right now. I will get over it.....

Originally posted by BigRob


Damn I geuss I should have sold that hardtop and tailgate from that Blazer myself cause I figure If I still owe you that amount then you either didn't sell them or just gave them away figureing I would make the difference!!:(

:( I sold the tailgate for 50 bucks and was lucky to give the top away since nobody wanted it... You still owed me 350 at the time so I figured..... Ah, what the hell. Just forget it... You don't owe me anything then... :flipoff2:

:eek: Kwitcherbitchin. :eek:

If we hadn't gone to all those damn meetings and conducted ourselves well, we would be fully closed out of that chunk of land, even now. I sat through almost all those meetings and I can sure tell you that is what many folks wanted. We've bought ourselves some time on the BLM land, at least until the next round.

If you aren't going to show up at the meetings to help manage our public land, then you don't get a say in it, so :eek: Kwitcherbitchin. :eek:
Just like if a guy has a chance to vote but doesn't, he doesn't deserve to be able to bitch about the gubmint that gets installed without him.

You have three choices:
1.) show up at the planning meetings
2.) shaddup about the consequences

..or, if you have real balls, step up to the ranger and call his bluff. The F&G land is supposedly closed, but I don't believe they have done the paperwork to enact or enforce it, and the practical reality is that arresting you and impounding your vehicle will be a SERIOUS pain in the ass down by the river... that would take a helluva tow-truck to get it outta there. You can go on record as effectively a peaceful resistor, and force the court case... I'd bet money on you winning, in the long run... how deep are your pockets. This is a real sack check. :rolleyes:

But in the long run, I think we have a better chance of retaining access to this and other lands by working with the land managers, instead of coming up opposite them in court.

That's why I go to the meetings...

Randii