Did you get it?

TU BE ...----> Tube or not Tube, Ok.... so I should keep my day job.

Anyway.. I have discovered my Mog's Radial tubeless Alliance 12.5x20 tires all have tubes in them. I discovered this by picking up a nail on passenger rear thus getting a flat tire. . I mean INSTANTLY FLAT and climbing off the bead. I was on city highway and pulled over quick. I did pretty good for my first Mog tire change. Especially since the tire weights literally double of my own weight. . (they do weight around 300lb right?) Now here is what concerns me. According to Doc at the tire shop the disadvantage of tube tire is that like mine did they do go flat instantly when punctured. WOW.... I don't think I should have tubes in my front tires!!! If this is true. Maybe should not have it in any of them.

Why would the PO have tubes in my tires? He did use the rig off road in several types of terrain, particularly desert sand, and snow. Don't know if this makes any difference. So far all the things I have found him to do have been spot on. This one baffles me.

Any thoughts on this? Should I have the tubes pulled on all the tires?

Thanks in advance.

Tubes in tubeless tires are handy for off-road situations where you can get crud into the bead area when aired down. The tubeless GY MTR's on my Rover are famous for picking up crap in the bead and then not holding air afterwards.

Of course, tubes in air-down situations are prone to having the valve stem ripped off when the tire rotates on the wheel - hence the invention of bead locks on dirt bikes. However, tubeless wheels are less prone to creeping tires.

I guess it's a matter of choice and personal experience...

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Another reason is that maybe those rims are not tubeless rims...

BTW - sand and snow are PRIME areas for ultra-low tire pressures.

These are 9x20 rims. Not sure if this plays into things or not.

The 11x20's on my 416 are tubeless rims - don't know if the early 404 rims were or not.

The 11x20's on my 416 are tubeless rims - don't know if the early 404 rims were or not.

Story I got over at Benze World Mog forum is that the 404 rim is NOT tubless, thus the need for tubes even with Radials.

Sounds logical to me. Any one agree or disagree?

Uhh, I run tubles tires on my 404 rims. They work just fine. Define a tubeless rim and a non tubeless I dont see the differance.

Damn young-un's - probably never even seen a car come from the factory with tube tires :flipoff2:

That said, it's always been my understanding that tube & tubeless wheels differed in the angle of the bead mounting surface. New-fangled tubeless wheels have a more angled bead surface (something like 15-20 degrees) vs a tube type wheels almost vertical bead area.

The sloped bead seating surface of a tubeless wheel closely matches the profile of the thick bead found on a tubeless tire where a tube-type wheel just needs to hold a thin wire bead. That's why (I thought...) a tubeless tire would not seal correctly on a old tube-type wheel.

'course, I could be wrong.... :) (hey - it's happened before - just ask my wife or kids)

And, I know plenty of guys run tubeless tires on 404's - so, IF there are two type of wheels, the change may have happened MANY years ago. But, given the beef of Mog parts, it's likely there are plenty of 40 year old wheels still rolling about.

Just looked at a couple different style wheels I have in the shop, some would have had tubes some are tubeless. They are all the same shape and profile etc. I still do not see that there is any difference.

Just looked at a couple different style wheels I have in the shop, some would have had tubes some are tubeless. They are all the same shape and profile etc. I still do not see that there is any difference.


So Puffdragon,Are you running your Iroks tubeless? If so,how low of air pressure are you running? I'm likely picking up a set of Iroks tomorrow or friday(If my car sells tonight) and I'll be mounting them up this weekend on my 404

Dont know how low I can go. I know they are around 20 or so right now. I really dont have to air down to do anything except really steep climbs.

Dont know how low I can go. I know they are around 20 or so right now. I really dont have to air down to do anything except really steep climbs.


Well,I'll probably just start out with tubes in them,I'd like to run them lower than 20,Got alot of muddy steep climbs to deal with.Once I get a better air compressor on the Mog I'll experiment with tubeless,Just have an old Land Rover compressor that's kinda weak that I pulled off of a Range Rover while doing a coil conversion,Takes forever to air up a tire with it.

Sold my car tonight so I'll be picking up the Iroks tomorrow :smokin:

I like running my d-90 down to 3psi, so I understand what your saying, but #1 if you are upgrading from the old mil tires, you will be amazed at what your truck can do with IROKS, #2 20psi is not very high for a truck that weighs in at 6-7lbs min. My 404 is about 5500lbs completly stripped down. I would shoot for 15PSI, no less

My 404 is likely as light as yours,I haven't had a chance to weigh it yet.
Front one is mine(single cab)
http://home.insightbb.com/~d.may/mogfest1.JPG
The Doka behind mine showed 4700lbs on a scale,I'm skeptical of that but both of ours are pretty stripped down(and mines a bare bones 1955 Frenchy)
I'm considering trying some thing like I did to make my mountain bikes tubeless,depends on how hard it is to install the bead over the rim for my idea to work.

additional good discussion on this topic HERE (http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1215787&posts=6)

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm debating having Doc. pull the tubes and use Bead Glue liberally. Maybe run a bead of black silicon sealer around the edge of the rim to keep sand/mud out when aired down. Unfurtunately that does not happen often :( Gawd I hate the lack of four wheeling options in FL. :mad3:

I have a 404 that I just put 39.5 Iroks on. The other day I was in the woods and hit the drivers rear on a root sticking out into a trail. The tire almost instantly debeaded and there I was. When I pulled the old mil tires off, they said they were tubeless, but had tubes in them. I never had any problems with the bead on the mil tires, even when aired down to 8-10 psi. The Iroks were at 18 I think. It looks like the lip on the mog wheel is very deep compared to the sidewall of the Iroks. The tire guy who put them on said it looked like the bead wasn't fully seated. Anyone else have any problems with debeads on Iroks? I also am debating on whether to put the tubes back in the Iroks like the mil tires.

Now that I have been driving my truck more, (finally got title and registration after 5 yrs) I have been noticing that my Iroks have been popping off slightly here and there. I cant say that the rim profile is wrong, but it could be the depth of the bead.

Now that I have been driving my truck more, (finally got title and registration after 5 yrs) I have been noticing that my Iroks have been popping off slightly here and there. I cant say that the rim profile is wrong, but it could be the depth of the bead.


Popping off slightly? Does it lose all the air or just blow out some.
Got my first run on my Iroks yesterday,of course we had to get it stuck in a deep mudhole,but overall they did great.Ran 20lbs air.I was amazed how much quieter they were on the short 15 mile drive over to Redbird from my house than the military tires.
Power steering is next,the tires will take it places that aren't safe to go w/o good steering.

I have 404 wheels with 39" iroks, tubeless, on my buggy. I have weld on beadlocks on the outsides. I can run down to about 6 psi and I will pop the inner bead just by turning. There is no safety bead on the 404 wheel. I will be installing rim screws from www.inchwormgear.com tomorrow on my inner beads. These are very effective, cheap and dont add any more weight to my already heavy wheels.

My tire/wheel setup is 160 lbs. Thats two 1/4" beadlock rings and (48) 3/8" bolts.

i have 275 80 20 mich.xzl tubless on stock rims on a 8100lb 1965 radio truck(.i have a slow leak on 1 tire from crap in the bead,too lazy to pop the bead and clean it.otherwise no troubles(except that these tires dont do very good in mud,okay everywhere else).these tires are u.s. surplus.got them from dealers tire supply in phoenix az.$169 a tire (in 2003)