I just ordered a JD2 bender and a couple of dies - 1"x3.5"-180* and 1.75"x5.5"-180* to be exact. I will be doing the front part of the cage (with .120" tube) and and new fenders for my TJ.
I've got a friend wanting to do an exo-cage on his Toyota. What thickness does it need to be? Will the 1.75" with .120" tube be ok for it?

I've done a search and came up with .120" is ok for internal cages, but nothing for external.

The search did help me a lot with the purchase of the bender and dies. Also with how I want to build my fenders - front and rear.

.120 IS FINE........

BUT WHEN I DO MY ROCKERS ....BUMPERS AGAIN.....IM GONNA USE SOMETHING THICKER... .188...3/16......WITH ALL THE USE THEY GET THEY ARE SHOWING A LITTLE BOW TO THEM....AND IF YOU HIT THEM HARD THEY DENT.....

0.120 is good; you can use thicker (0.156 or 0.188) if you want, but it adds a fair bit of weight, cost, and difficulty in bending, for some strength gains that you'd be unlikely to need.

One thing that I do on all cagework, internal, exo, whatever, is always use DOM tube. It's stronger for the same size and weight, vs. hot roll or similar. More expensive (usually close to double) but it's worth it.

Question for 71RCKCRZR,
What size tubing have you been denting (assuming .120"?)?
Has anyone bent 3/16" tubing with a JD2 bender. That's got to be tuff stuff to bend!

Jason :)

Originally posted by Brutpwr
Has anyone bent 3/16" tubing with a JD2 bender. That's got to be tuff stuff to bend!

I routinely bend 1.5" 0.188, 0.250, and 0.375 in mine. Also 1.25" 0.219, 0.281, and occasionally 2" 0.250.

That is not possible by hand; mine's heavily hydraulic powered.

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper
.
One thing that I do on all cagework, internal, exo, whatever, is always use DOM tube. It's stronger for the same size and weight, vs. hot roll or similar. More expensive (usually close to double) but it's worth it.

CHRIST!!:rolleyes:

Here we go again, another dumbass post.

Originally posted by Keith
Here we go again, another dumbass post.

Are you calling me a dumbass for asking about trying to be a little safer while wheeling?

Not really, I dont care if you hurt yourself.......Just build the dam thing out of 120 wall and get on with it.

Well..... excuse the hell out of me Mister Keith, The Rock God, Most Intellegent of All...... I'm sorry for taking up your time and bandwidth. :flipoff:

Originally posted by Outlaw99TJ
I just ordered a JD2 bender and a couple of dies - 1"x3.5"-180* and 1.75"x5.5"-180* to be exact. I will be doing the front part of the cage (with .120" tube) and and new fenders for my TJ.
I've got a friend wanting to do an exo-cage on his Toyota. What thickness does it need to be? Will the 1.75" with .120" tube be ok for it?

I've done a search and came up with .120" is ok for internal cages, but nothing for external.

The search did help me a lot with the purchase of the bender and dies. Also with how I want to build my fenders - front and rear.

If you have to ask then you have no business buying a bender, cause what i would like to see is what your bends look like.

Originally posted by Brawler


If you have to ask then you have no business buying a bender, cause what i would like to see is what your bends look like.

That is the gayest thing I have ever heard! You gotta learn how to bend tube somehow jackass. Some peope actually build their rigs, not just send it off to Fat City and let them do it. :flipoff:

Has everything you learned just popped fawking magically into your head? Didn't think so.

Originally posted by MudYoTa


just send it off to Fat City and let them do it.



I'm pretty good:smokin:
Thanks
eric@fatcity

Originally posted by Brawler


If you have to ask then you have no business buying a bender, cause what i would like to see is what your bends look like.

I'm sure they'll look just fine with a little practice and Rob Park's Bending 101 write-up.

I sure am glad most of you either come across this stuff naturally or can afford to take your rig to someone and have it built for you. I learned my lesson about having someone do work for me.

Thanks for all the help

I think this is a good question and I want to know the same thing. I've been looking at cages and the 1.75/.120 just looks small, although it might work fine for all I know. Theory and ratings are fine, but practical experience counts more. You guys with exo-cages and 4000+ pound rigs, what size tube do you have and what do the tubes look like after you roll or hit something? So .120" tube gets dented from running into stuff? Do the 1.75/.120 cages get tweaked out of place if you flop on your side a few times?

Originally posted by Outlaw99TJ
Well..... excuse the hell out of me Mister Keith, The Rock God, Most Intellegent of All...... I'm sorry for taking up your time and bandwidth. :flipoff:

This time I will let you off. But you are still a WHEELER.......and a stupid jackass. What a dorky f%cking question to ask on this board.
:smokin:

Well, heres what BITD (Best In The Desert) has to say.

Vehicle Weight
Open Cockpit
Closed Cockpit

-2000 lbs. 2000 - 2999 lbs. 3000 - 3999 lbs. 4000+
1.5" x 0.90" 1.75" x .120" 2" x .120" 2.25" x .120"
1.5" x .090" 1.5" x .120" 1.75" x .120" 2” x .120"

Material

Rollcage construction material may be crew, dom, whr, wcr mild carbon steel or 4130 chromoly. 4130 chromoly is highly recommended for all rollcage construction. Stress relieve all welded intersections by flame annealing. All welds must be of high quality and craftsmanship with good penetration and with no undercutting of parent material. Oxy-acetylene brazing on rollcage is strictly forbidden.

Course they go much faster than I do. Dont know about you.


ARCA Says:

Round steel seamless tubing with a minimum outside diameter measurement of 1.5" and a minimum wall thickness of .120 is compulsory for the basic roll cage.

course that was all pulled up in 5 minutes on the web ;) Seems to me 1.75" .120 or 2" .120 would do fine.

Originally posted by MudYoTa


That is the gayest thing I have ever heard! You gotta learn how to bend tube somehow jackass. Some peope actually build their rigs, not just send it off to Fat City and let them do it. :flipoff:

Has everything you learned just popped fawking magically into your head? Didn't think so.


Slow down cowboy. First of all, do i know you? No? Well then you should think twice about who you call jackass. Second, that was a stupid question. Why? Cause it could have been answered had he bothered to do a browse. All he did was say hey, i just spent hundreds of dollars on a tube bender that i have no fawkin clue how to use. Maybe i should build a life saving device after i figure out how to bend tube, oh wait, do i bend tube or pipe. Fawk i better ask.

And mudman, i'm pretty fawkin smart...yeah baby!!!

Here's a cool link if you want to know how much your cage will weigh. Just plug in the #of feet and the size/wall thickness of the tubing.

http://home.netcom.com/~dwelding/Calculator.htm

Originally posted by Keith


This time I will let you off. But you are still a WHEELER.......and a stupid jackass. What a dorky f%cking question to ask on this board.
:smokin:

LMAO!! Thank you. Again, sorry for asking such a stupid question. :D

Originally posted by Brawler



that was a stupid question. Why? Cause it could have been answered had he bothered to do a browse. All he did was say hey, i just spent hundreds of dollars on a tube bender that i have no fawkin clue how to use. Maybe i should build a life saving device after i figure out how to bend tube, oh wait, do i bend tube or pipe. Fawk i better ask.


I did do a search.
How do you learn how to use a bender without one or access to one?
I wouldn't want to build a life saving device BEFORE learning how to bend tube.
I didn't ask about bending tube or pipe. I asked about thickness.

Thanks for the help

Originally posted by mike

ARCA Says:

Round steel seamless tubing with a minimum outside diameter measurement of 1.5" and a minimum wall thickness of .120 is compulsory for the basic roll cage.


Seamless?
Jay

Originally posted by ROKTOY
Seamless?

I haven't read the ARCA rulebook, but I'd interpret that as being that DOM is OK, drawn seamless tube is OK, but HREW/HRW/ERW/CREW/CRW/other stuff that is welded-seam, is not permitted for cage construction.

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper


I haven't read the ARCA rulebook, but I'd interpret that as being that DOM is OK, drawn seamless tube is OK, but HREW/HRW/ERW/CREW/CRW/other stuff that is welded-seam, is not permitted for cage construction.

I find it vaguely amusing that ARCA is more stringent on this than BITD... but less stringent on tube diameter and wall size, which have more effect on overall strength. go figure.

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper


I haven't read the ARCA rulebook, but I'd interpret that as being that DOM is OK, drawn seamless tube is OK, but


DOUBLE CHRIST!!:rolleyes:

DOM HAS A WELDED SEAM!!!! then drawn over a mandrel
ericfilar@fatcity

P.S.
You could have been done with you're cage a day ago

Originally posted by mike


I find it vaguely amusing that ARCA is more stringent on this than BITD... but less stringent on tube diameter and wall size, which have more effect on overall strength. go figure.


The ARCA rule book was put together by FARMERS, don't use it as a reference
ericfilar@fatcity

Originally posted by Outlaw99TJ


LMAO!! Thank you. Again, sorry for asking such a stupid question. :D


As they say in the army, "Thank you, sir. May I have another, sir?"

Hang in there, outlaw, I still say it's a good question. And you got some good answers, too, and we've got Keith to keep things lively every now and then. I'd say that's about par for POR and its why I like this board so much.

I've searched google pretty good, and I get the same kind of stuff mike posted - ARCA and other racing body standards that say .120 (or even .090) is okay. But when I search on roll cage damage, I get lots of stories of people who had to withdraw from races because they flipped and damaged the .120 so bad they didn't pass the safety test anymore. Now that's racing, not rock crawling, so I suppose they've mostly got lighter vehicles and higher impact speeds. What I want to know is, if you build a cage out of .120 and then use it a bunch, rolling heavy at low speeds, are you gonna have to keep redoing it? I'd rather spend a little more up front so I could roll and come up smiling and keep on going.

And I'd rather have answers from somebody who's rolled a dozen times than strength figures or standards.

Now, here's a racer who has probably got an overkill cage. What's this tube, people, 3.00/.250 maybe? That's more like what I'd like, how much more would that stuff cost (and weigh)? Couldn't you make up some on weight by having fewer tubes?

http://www.dakar4x4.co.uk/vgallery/images/dakar1.jpg

Originally posted by 92xj
I think this is a good question and I want to know the same thing. I've been looking at cages and the 1.75/.120 just looks small, although it might work fine for all I know. Theory and ratings are fine, but practical experience counts more. You guys with exo-cages and 4000+ pound rigs, what size tube do you have and what do the tubes look like after you roll or hit something? So .120" tube gets dented from running into stuff? Do the 1.75/.120 cages get tweaked out of place if you flop on your side a few times?

my old rig was a exo toy that weigh in at 4700 lbs. it was rolled probally 36 times and was made from mostly 1.75 x .120 hrew. for the most part it held up pretty well. you just need to stay on top of replacing crushed tubes.

my my new rig i went full buggy and it is made from 2" x .120 hrew. only been out twice with it and have rolled it 5 times already. it seems much more stout. oh ya the new rig weighs 3400 lbs

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FatCity
[B]



DOM HAS A WELDED SEAM!!!! then drawn over a mandrel
ericfilar@fatcity

That is exactly right. basically DOM is material that has been sized or "blue-printed". Just because it's DOM doesn't mean it is extruded or seamless.

Originally posted by FatCity



The ARCA rule book was put together by FARMERS, don't use it as a reference
ericfilar@fatcity

HAHAHAH you and I are on the same page :D course.. I grew up on farms.... ;) :beer:

[
ARCA Says:

Round steel seamless tubing with a minimum outside diameter measurement of 1.5" and a minimum wall thickness of .120 is compulsory for the basic roll cage.

That's funny I have yet to see a seamless cage at an ARCA event Other than Walker Evans extruded chromoly. Their tech dude needs a set of glasses. and a brain. Of course if the cage is painted it must be seamless. RIGHT

Originally posted by 92xj



Now, here's a racer who has probably got an overkill cage. What's this tube, people, 3.00/.250 maybe? That's more like what I'd like, how much more would that stuff cost (and weigh)? Couldn't you make up some on weight by having fewer tubes?

http://www.dakar4x4.co.uk/vgallery/images/dakar1.jpg

You should deffinetly use 3"x.250,
you need to protect what ever is left of you're brain.
Judgeing from that post you've hit it 1 to many times already:D

Originally posted by FatCity


You should deffinetly use 3"x.250,
you need to protect what ever is left of you're brain.
Judgeing from that post you've hit it 1 to many times already:D

Aw, you aint gonna goad me into saying anything mean to you, fatman, I've read enough of your posts to know you could answer my question if you wanted to. Alright, scratch the dakar, how about a roll cage like this (I don't remember where I got the pic but it's the big stuff like I like).............

http://www.fatcityoffroad.com/carpics/fabrication1.jpg

P.S. Camo, who sounds like the voice of expereince in these matters, has already said that rolling 36 times on 1.75/.120 tubing requires maintenance - replacing crushed tubes. He says 2.00/.120 seems better so far, but he's just begun to roll it, a mere 5 times in 2 whole trips, and I'm guessing he'll have to fix that cage too before he's done with it. It kind of seems like the .120 tube is kind of like a Trojan, it'll save your life once but you got to throw it away and get a new one after each use.

So, is it impossible to have a maintenance free roll cage, in which case you should just go cheap and keep fixing it, or would heavier tubes do you once and for all.

Originally posted by 92xj


Aw, you aint gonna goad me into saying anything mean to you, fatman, I've read enough of your posts to know you could answer my question if you wanted to. Alright, scratch the dakar, how about a roll cage like this (I don't remember where I got the pic but it's the big stuff like I like).............

http://www.fatcityoffroad.com/carpics/fabrication1.jpg


Thats pretty funny:D

I'm thinking that looks like some 1 3/4 with some 1 1/2 and perhaps a dash of 1", and if my .003 eye still treats me good I'll bet it's all .120 & .095 wall HREW tube.

ericfilar@fatcity

That was a good one:flipoff2:

Originally posted by 92xj

So, is it impossible to have a maintenance free roll cage, in which case you should just go cheap and keep fixing it, or would heavier tubes do you once and for all.

OK,

Here it is,

It is possible to have a maintenance free cage by useing huge thick tubeing, But at the same time you are doubleing the weight on the top of you're vehicle causeing you to use the cage even more.

I've had a 2" cage before, and it lasted 20 roll-overs, 5 of witch were very hard, I have since replaced it with 1 3/4 and it will probably go another 20 before I feel it needs to be replaced.


Every time a vehicle rolls the cage will bend ever so slightly, then you roll on the other side and it will bend ever so slightly the other way (I don't care who made it or how big and thick it is) eventualy this weakens the metal and it is time to replace the cage.

Judgeing from you're name you run an XJ, If you use an internal cage ( whitch I strongly suggest ) 1 1/2 .120 will do the job, there is no need for anything larger.

ericfilar@fatcity

P.S.
I appolagize for the sarcasim, but I could'nt resist

Thanks, dude. Sarcasm and answers are BOTH appreciated.

just the idea of a maintance free roll cage make me wanna vomit

maintance free = death.


fyi i give my entire rig including every welded tube on my chassis a complete going over almost every trip. nothing can withstand the kinda punishment these rigs take for long. at best i will use my chassis for 3 years before i throw it away and build another. FYI my last one only lasted 2 years and was wasted when i cut it apart and tossed it. it had cracks and smashed tubing every where.

Originally posted by Keith
Here we go again, another dumbass post.
FAWK YOU GAY BOY!
leave my Texas buddies alone....I might have to borrow a bender...:D

Originally posted by Cutter

FAWK YOU GAY BOY!
leave my Texas buddies alone....I might have to borrow a bender...:D

You think?? :D :flipoff2: :D

Guess you do need to do some tube work to that thing to put some metal back on it! LOL!

Originally posted by camo
oh ya the new rig weighs 3400 lbs

Not with 60s I'll bet :D :D :D :D

I'll bet there are plenty of HREW cages running in ARCA.

Jay

Originally posted by camo
maintance free

Is anything:question:

Just one question for Camo....do you scratch marks in your rig to track the number of times or just take pictures? From what I hear, you tend to roll at least once a month....

On the roll cage note...shop around first talking to people who bend tube for a living, cause you can bend tube following the guidelines but most of these guys got skills and have thrown away countless feet of tubing......