I got everything in and just need to weld the brackets for the rear support on but my question came up when I put the shifter back in the hole. How far up and towards the driver does your shifter come? I have no choice but to cut about 2 1/2" off the base of the shifter that goes straight up, and also reweld the top angled part more aligned with center (like 3-5" over to the right). In first the shifter hits the dash right at the first switch hole. In reverse it is as far over as the edge of the gauge panel. I have a 15" wheel and reverse is so far down and over that I would have to cup the shifter from the underside because my hand won't fit between the wheel and the top of the shifter.

Questions- Is 1st supposed to be much more forward than 3rd? Cause mine hits the dash when I put it in first but not when it is put in third.
First comes at least 2" more forward then 3rd does.
Reverse comes so far over and down that I would have to move my leg and push against the seat to engage it.
The shifter from the top of the tower to the bend is 6", and from the bend to the ball is 18", that sucker is LONG! Is there a different type? Maybe mine is from a truck and the car is different?

Also how much play is acceptable when in gear? My tranny seems to have a lot of play in each gear. I can move the shifter back and forth about 1" (guess).

This is all with the tranny bolted up, and the tranny and tcase being supported by a chain hoist in the rear. I tried raising and lowering it and left it and it is at the position that the engine and tranny seem to be right about level.

IT sounds like you have the same shifter as I have in my CJ,

Just heat and bent it to the location as you want it, I had todo that on the CJ and its perfect now..

I have pictures someplace..

SM420s came in such a varaity of vehicals that there are many different size shifters out there, It sounds like yours is like mine which came in the delivery van style trucks.


The amount of play sounds about right, remeber this is a truck tranny, not a honda gear box

Originally posted by Joey
Questions- Is 1st supposed to be much more forward than 3rd? Cause mine hits the dash when I put it in first but not when it is put in third.
First comes at least 2" more forward then 3rd does.
Reverse comes so far over and down that I would have to move my leg and push against the seat to engage it.
The shifter from the top of the tower to the bend is 6", and from the bend to the ball is 18", that sucker is LONG! Is there a different type? Maybe mine is from a truck and the car is different?

I think the way to solve the shifter problem is to use the stock toy 3spd shifter lever. It interchanges perfect. Doesn't interfer with the dash or steering.
On my sm420 1st and 3rd throw the same distance.
Mike

Either fix above will work. The three speed is supposed to be a better shifter, but I have never driver a setup like that so I can say for sure.

But for now, put it in first gear, heat that sucker up and bend it. Wait for it to cool and check the pattern. I had to heat and bend mine 2 or 3 times before I was completely happy with it.

Flexing40 is right. Use the stock three speed shifter if you've got it. If you are replacing a stock four speed tranny, and don't have a three speed shifter available you can cut the lower portion (below the ball) off the four speed shifter and replace it with the lower portion of the sm420 shifter. Just measure twice, cut and re-weld. I also sleeved mine with a short section of tubing for added strength. Using the stock shifters works great, eliminates all the clearance issues, and makes for a clean looking install.

Originally posted by Shipwreck
Using the stock shifters works great, eliminates all the clearance issues, and makes for a clean looking install.

I kind of like that long ugly sm420 stick with the knob way up around your ear. Short sticks are :rainbow: Just heat up the shifter arm and bend it away from the heater and dash.

The throw into first is noticably longer than into 3rd because the non-synchro first gear has to move farther than 3rd.

I just removed mine, heated it, and bent it until it fit right. The shifter is cake to remove.

I am using the 3 speed Toy shifter in my SM420.....works grear.

Originally posted by Eric
I am using the 3 speed Toy shifter in my SM420.....works grear. Does it help plug up the hole in the side, though?? :D :rasta:

Does it help plug up the hole in the side, though??

Is this some inside joke?

How do you do the quote somebody bit?

Thanks for all the info. :emb:

PM, or E-Mail Matt Hodges, TheLakeRat

He just put in my 420 not long ago and did a real good job, and with good fabricating...
BTW...does anyone else notice that the stars are now yellow???

Joseph A.

Originally posted by Joey
Does it help plug up the hole in the side, though??

Is this some inside joke?

How do you do the quote somebody bit?

Thanks for all the info. :emb:

Yup - that's an inside joke - Eric's never gonna forget that one!

You quote by clicking on the "quote" button in the bottom right hand corner of someones post.

Yes, it is an inside joke if you were not around on this board in 1998. JB weld is a wonderful invention! It fixes holes in the side of your SM420s :eek: .....It has been holding strong for a few years now.

Just don't get too carried away with grinding the reverse hump to clear the drive shaft. Woops!!!!

SM420s can have a close ratio or a standard ratio shift pattern. I haven't quite figured out how to tell them apart yet, but the cover and the shift hub are matched.

A close ratio cover won't work properly on a standard ration shift hub and vice-versa. I was told it causes problems holding third gear.

If I can figure it out from the 5 trannys I have I'll post the info.

Phil

How do you tell which one is the close ratio and which one is the standard ratio?

How about casting # for the covers?

Originally posted by PJohnson
SM420s can have a close ratio or a standard ratio shift pattern. I haven't quite figured out how to tell them apart yet, but the cover and the shift hub are matched.

A close ratio cover won't work properly on a standard ration shift hub and vice-versa. I was told it causes problems holding third gear.

If I can figure it out from the 5 trannys I have I'll post the info.

Phil


Phil,
My sm420 pops out of third gear when I let off of the throttle. I have taken it in and there does not appear to be any significant wear to the synchros to make it do that. Now, how the heck would I figure out which variation of tranyn I have and which top plate I need?

Or, do you happen to have a spare shifter cover that I could try???

I haven't figured out which is which yet.

I do know that the width of the shift hub body that the shift forks ride on is the key. One of them is about 1/8" wider. If the top cover (or maybe the shift fork or rail) is not correct for that width shift hub body, it can cause third gear to not engage fully. Popping out of gear could be a symptom.

I just learned all this from Marlin about three weeks ago. As soon as I figure out exactly how to tell the difference, I'll post it for everyone.

Phil