here's the deal i know i spelled philosophical wrong. really i value your input and want to know your thoughts on a project i am under taking.

the base is a cj3b. it is a frame, stock f head, tcase, trans, and axles. it has 4 inches of lift, 32" tires and limited slips front and rear. armstrong steering and manual brakes. oohh yeah the body is made of plywood and there was no roll bar so there is no rust. it my have been very unsafe but i have witnessed that thing in the hand of a cappable driver reduce the drivers of high dollar trailer queens and well built trail rigs to tears crying for their mommies, wishing they could follow it. bottom line is the thing is the stuff of legend in my neck of the woods.

the owner stripped the body off of it and was going to replace it. long story short he got invovled in a cj-8 project and has no time for his beloved plywood Jeep. he offered it to me to for nothing as long as i built it and wheel it according to it's legend (i.e. i have to build it so it works, wheel it hard and put it away wet).

i know you guys are of the bigger is better school of thought but does anyone think that bigger isn't better. you see part of the reason this thing was so good was that it fit places no one else could even go near. it was light so the 72hp terror could power it over things pretty good. and the low hp helped it not blow up its drive line.

(sorry this post is getting so long)

to end this epic tale i'll just tell you what i want to do to the little monster. i am looking at this through the K.I.S.S. mind set.

stretch the wheel base to 94", box certian parts of the frame, 258 or 4.0L with a t-18 and 4:1 geared dana20 (a D300 would be nice but i believe an adapter is needed), narrow width dana 44's, spooled rear and locked front, 35's, soa with rear wrongler springs + shackle reversal. i have the cj3b body, hood, fenders, and grill. add power brakes from the engine donor, maybe hyrdo steering becuase i can and a cage and i have a winner.

what do you guys think and why. i want to know your philosophy on why bigger is better. oohh yeah in the back of my mind i'm thinking tube body/cage with cj3b stlyed body panels but that may be a little to far beyond keep it simple.

dan "sorry for being long winded flame me for it later" P

What is there to debate?!

... a dude offers you a free "base" for a project Jeep.

Why would you say no? Too much lead paint as a kid?

cmk

it's not whether i should take the thing and build it or not. and retard should know if the junk is free take it. the question is should i go big dog with a tube frame, full width 60's, and coil overs with a cobra jet or what i outlined already thats all. i want to have a discussion on little and lite vs. big and heavy.

Hell, if it runs now, slap a body on and GET IT! My opinion: If it aint broke, don't upgrade till it is :flipoff2:

One thing that makes a rig capable is the ability to take the difficult lines. Usually these are offcamber and some require momentum:flipoff2: :flipoff2: . In order to run these lines, stability is key. If you want that, don't run it on narrowtrack axles. Wider is more stable, so figure out how wide is practical for what you do, and build it that wide. Low is also key, so plan to cut the body up to keep it as low as possible, just address skidplates and such to avoid getting caught on them (smooth). Center of gravity is going to make a huge diffenece. Unsprung weight will keep COG low, sprung weight won't. As far as suspension, go with what you can afford. Coilovers are becoming popular, and produce a very stable, controlled suspension. SOA will be cheaper, and still do very well with the right setup. HTH

the question is should i go big dog with a tube frame, full width 60's, and coil overs with a cobra jet

Why ruin a good jeep. By the time you do that all the glory will be gone. Most of the parts you get will dissapere also. I say make it a bit better than it was. The outline you gave would make a real jeep. It would out wheel most of the rigs around here plus look way better.
All the high noses :flipoff2: with more credit card debt than brains like to debate the merits of air bags, and shaved 60's but they have no clue. They say use 60's or nothing mostly because they haven't got enough savy to wheel a real rig. There is no difference between most of them, and the mall hoppers.
I'm always glad to see a real jeep project

that took some guts be prepared for flame. i happen to agree with you on most accounts but i would not say that most guys here

"haven't got enough savy to wheel a real rig. There is no difference between most of them, and the mall hoppers"

i think most of them could wheel anything they just chose to wheel heavy duty junk cause that is what they have found works in their neck of the woods.

i am planning on going "real world" becausee i have seen that work very well and i am confident in my driving ability.

again bonestripper good luck walking out of here unscathed. but i salute you for voicing such a strong (although wrong) opinion

later
danP

example of big vs small

my friend has a stock cj2a and i have a stock (not for long :flipoff2: ) fj40.

when wheeling he thinks he can just go around stuff and avoid obstackles but that defeats the purpose of wheeling. isn't the purpose for wheeling to have fun and to dominate the biggest rocks and deepest mud holes you can find.

When wheeling with him he can't go a lot of the places i can because his shit is too damn weak and too damn small. I am having all the fun in the mud holes and on the rocks while he is "having fun" (my ass) driving around the rocks and mud holes because he doesn't have the power or size or width to go over them.

i say small suck go big and GET IT

I like your plan except:
1) A straight 6 is too long. Make it a Buick or Chevy V6.
2) Put an SM420 behind that.
3) There is no 4:1 for a Jeep D20- only 3.15 (Terra) & 3.6 (O'brien). You would need an adapter w/ the SM tranny, so go w/ the D300 t/c. Or keep the D18 t/c. O'brien makes gearset down to 4.86:1

i say put another plywood body on it and then enter the next arca comp. i want to see it send send the "trailor queens" go crying to thier mommies :flipoff2:

TRD - this "little" cj3b never went around anything only over. sure it didn't have the same motivation in the mud as my buddys 42" super swamper wearing f550 but we sure had fun skipping across the mud and getting stuck. as for rocks smaller is better look at all pro's rock truggy that features a bone stock toy 4banger and 35's or 37's i can't recall. not to mention tricounty gear's wrangler with 37's and a stock engine and trans. a light weight rig with low power allows you to run smaller axels (with no chance of breakage). the smaller axels force you to run smaller tires but don't sacrifice the ground clearance like a d60 or 14 bolt. and no the point of four wheeling for me is not to "dominate the biggest rocks and deepest mud holes you can find." its to have a great time with my buddies driving our junk over stuff we couldn't last weekend. competition is for football and i never liked it anyway.

cj-jeeper - i think i can find a way to shoe horn an inline 6 in there. the radiator is going in the back behind the seats so there is no fan only the pulleys up front. the head lights and anything else in the way is gettin removed from the back of the grill and if i have to i'll clearance the firewall. i can't find an sm420 but i have a t18. plus i am too cheap to buy adapters. i may keep the d18 tcase because i already have the adapter for it. and th e4:1 was only a dream. like i'm really gonna spring for that in the middle of a build up. maybe down the road. for now i'm putting the lowest gears i can find in the pumkins (i have a buddy who sets up gears for me for free)

finally high5 - you have to understand that trailer queens around here are mostly super high lifted peices of crap. they are built by shops that suck and wouldn't know dana 60 from a ford 9". the owners are equally clueless. an example would be a guy i knows blazer with 22" of lift on 44's with a d44 front axle and he just recently went from a 12 bolt to a d60 with non functioning rear steer. he's also got 4 chrome shocks at each end . now if i lived in an area were the currie fire ant was a trailer queen i'd still make fun of them. but only cause i am jealous.

plus i don't wheel in places that in anyway resemble an ARCA competition and as i stated earlier i think competions are kind of wierd.

danP

Find a tub and drive it. 72 HP is fine for a little Willys, it's all about torque, and a really short wheelbase. It would be a shame to mess up a complete willys. If you want to build a rock crawler, it's easier to start from scratch, you'll wind up throwing everything away anyways.

Good luck

10-4 on the throwing everything away. Just look at Lance's crusier. it started life as fully intact FJ40 and now I think the grill is the only real crusier part left on his buggy.

i don't want a crawler. the type of wheeling i do is multi faceted. in one trip i can go from high speed logging roads make a left into potentionally rig swallowing mud, cross over into technical rockcrawling, do some weird off camber hill climbs or twisty slow woods trails through mud water and rocks. those rigs that are purpose built only do well in what they are built for. if you take a baja 1000 score truck and throw it on the rocks of farmington it's not gonna get ten feet. on the other hand if you take an arca comp. rig and put it in some florida gumbo mud i'm pretty confident it won't fare too well. my rig is being built for my purpose of keeping it simple and capable where i wheel.

ohh yeah i just got done talking to my buddy. he's giving me a new body, a dana 44 rear, a dana 30, and a military jeep (MB i belive) with the cj3b. all for the grand total of nothing. plus i get a title. this thing is gonna be off road by the end of the summer.

Dude you got a free hoopty Jeep (that is supposed to work)with a hoopty body. Revel in it like the last guy. Just wheel the piss out of it. fix what's broke. Fix it again, and break it some more. Plywood body? too funny. Keep it the way it is (unless it's a safety issue) and get it!!!!!


The reason it works is it's light. Think about it.

no seat belts no roll bar and a ply wood body. it was wheeled like that for 4 years. any damage was easily fixed and and people looked at it funny. i never thought about as being a saftey issue. that is until people started pointing it out. the best story about this jeep i can remember is this -

the owner went wheeling one 4th of july weekend. he hammered that little beast all morning and got it filthy. when he got home his wife said the car club called and asked when he was going to make it to the car show with his jeep. my buddy has a fully restored ford GPW and an all original 49 cj2a in great shape that were supposed to go to the show that 4th of july and be in the parade. the cj2a wasn't running so he filled it's spot with the plywood jeep. he drove to a car show with a filthy, junk pile and the gpw. people just stared at the plywood jeep and didn't know what to say. a couple people asked if was safe to drive and he just laughed.

safety is of no concern to us

I am running the stock drivetrain in my 51 CJ3A with the exception of the rear spider gears being welded...the only thing I could ask for is a little more power and an overdrive! I have been contemplating the V8 swap but the extra 300lbs up front seems like a little much with everthing else stock, not to mention the "extra" 250 or so HP over the stock L-head 134 motor.

If you can, upgrade the brakes to at least 11" drums or even better get front disk if not all 4 disks. Stopping my willys with 33's and 9" drums is scarry when the idiots pull in front of you and slam on the brakes:eek:

Ryan

Thanks, ES I got my asbestos undies on.

You project will give you mass joy with not much pocket book dent, if you don’t sacrifice the Jeep for the rock. That is the only thing I was really talking about.

Most of the time too much mental anguish and cash is spent trying to go bigger or better, and people forget about jeeping. Climbing up on a big rock is just that. I can’t count the times I have see 10 idiots spend hours trying to climb 2 rocks.

Taking a jeep and going on an 8 hour trail run is great. Nothing like crossing a old mountain pass, cresting a hill, and seeing a valley with a perfect lake, and watching it get bigger as you move down a steep trail to it. Pitching a tent, or sleeping under the stars, and taking a different route back to base camp the next day. Spending 6 hours going 2 miles, and climbing 2 rocks is cool for some but it ain’t for me.

You have an opportunity to enjoy an awesome old jeep, and I know you will never regret anything you do to it. Big or small is your choice. So do what makes you happy. If you get into the rocks that is awesome because anytime some is enjoying a jeep it is good. Just don’t let the hype over run you fun.