What problems have people had because of them, and is there any solutions to those problems? im pretty sure i am going to just run extended arms, but before i do that i just want to figure out the problems with the wristed.

Thanks

I ran extended arms with hiems on a 70's f150 based rig at one time, worked good, I have a friend that ran extended and risted radius arms worked awesome...He only risted the passenger side. both side would give you problems with the axle walking towards the center, and drivers side wrist would cause driveline problems. just my .02

i can see that there is some problems with it, ive bent the stock arms without them being wristed, but i havnt decided how to go about beefing them up so that they could handle the extra load on them.

another thing, and i think the thing that scares me the most is the fact that i hear of a lot of people who have problems with the tubes spinning. how do i go about fixing that potential problem? running the radius arms, i do not have the space needed to run a truss on the driver side, and i am not totally sure about welding the tubes to the pumpkin, would that not cause the tubes to warp?

If you are set on using ford style radius arm and panhard bar I would build some of these beefier boxed radius arms, or you can buy them, then cut a wrist into them. Not any more work to eliminate the panhard and run upper and lower links (3 or 4 link). as far as spinning tubes Ive alway trusses them out, but you can warp your tubes if your not carefull.

also, you dont want to weld your tubes to the center section, reason is because your weld will penetrate the tube, but not properly bond to centersection(cast), the tubes are pressed into the center section, plug welds keep them from spinning(or are supposed to) something you might want to look into rather than wristing the control arm having a wrist in the long side tube..cant remember the name of it but there is a company that makes them, that would allow your radius are suspension to droop and take the pressure of the tube keeping it from spinning.

Your thinking of the Wristed Axle Housing (WAH) by BC Broncos. http://www.bcbroncos.com/frontsusp1.html
There's also a couple of write-ups in a few different places (classicbroncos) about it, if you do a Google you'll find them. Also, I'm sure there are more than a few guys running them, just gotta ask around.

I would think that for the effort you'd be better off making your own three or four link.

I did a wristed arm on my full size and the poroblem I had was the wristed side wristed too much and bent the other sides arm!

Your thinking of the Wristed Axle Housing (WAH) by BC Broncos. http://www.bcbroncos.com/frontsusp1.html
There's also a couple of write-ups in a few different places (classicbroncos) about it, if you do a Google you'll find them. Also, I'm sure there are more than a few guys running them, just gotta ask around.

I would think that for the effort you'd be better off making your own three or four link.


good link Apogee, thats exactly what I was thinking about.

i can see that there is some problems with it, ive bent the stock arms without them being wristed, but i havnt decided how to go about beefing them up so that they could handle the extra load on them.

another thing, and i think the thing that scares me the most is the fact that i hear of a lot of people who have problems with the tubes spinning. how do i go about fixing that potential problem? running the radius arms, i do not have the space needed to run a truss on the driver side, and i am not totally sure about welding the tubes to the pumpkin, would that not cause the tubes to warp?

"A lot"? Are you sure about that? Just wrist the damn thing, the wristed arm if done correctly will be much stronger than any stock or stock/lengthened arm. Breakage isn't much of a wristed arm fault at all, the downsides of a noncentered panhard 3link is.

welcome to the board kris-and why don't you just ditch the radius arms and use a two link instead......sure,it has a few handling quirks on the street,but it will outflex a slinky.

If you are set on using ford style radius arm and panhard bar I would build some of these beefier boxed radius arms, or you can buy them, then cut a wrist into them.

buildup of arms here (http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21495)

welcome to the board kris-and why don't you just ditch the radius arms and use a two link instead......sure,it has a few handling quirks on the street,but it will outflex a slinky.

right now im hurting for cash, id love to have a 2 link, but i question the streetability of it, i really like how the truck handles, it flexes as much as i need, but i figure if i do just replace the bent arm, its going to bend again until i can afford a proper arm.

as for the wristed housing, no thanks :shaking:

Your thinking of the Wristed Axle Housing (WAH) by BC Broncos. http://www.bcbroncos.com/frontsusp1.html
There's also a couple of write-ups in a few different places (classicbroncos) about it, if you do a Google you'll find them. Also, I'm sure there are more than a few guys running them, just gotta ask around.

I would think that for the effort you'd be better off making your own three or four link.

I run the WAH from BC Broncos and I love it. I've had it for about 2 years now without any problems and it flexes great. This was my crappy front end flex before the WAH:
http://www.dustyland.net/broncos/badlandsmar03/DSCN2259.jpg

And this was after installing the WAH, with nothing else changed:
http://www.dustyland.net/broncos/scb-0308-lockwoodmiller/P1010059.jpg

Both pics are with BC 5.5" coils, 14" Bilsteins and F150 rear leaves. I like the WAH for my purposes, others like the wristed or long arms for whatever they're doing. Each approach has merit as there are pros and cons to each, but the WAH has worked out great for me so far. Let me know if you want to know any more about it.

Dusty

i dont like what the wristed housing does to the steering one bit, id much rather a radius arm being wristed.

those pictures are without a wristed arm, but the top was still on the truck, looks like ive got a bit of flex for stock arms and no wristing

http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/180575/fullsize/200522313538_DSCN3124-2.jpg
http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/179667/fullsize/200522123528_3.jpg

on another wristed arm rig I seen the non wristed arm shear all 4 bolts off the cap of the arm.

but i question the streetability of it

it is a proven design, used for at least 100 years. look under early fords 1900-1940s, unimog to present day
what exactly do you doubt about it's "streetability"?

how is it going to stop, corner, accelerate compared to what i have? my truck is sketchy eanough driving it on the road

i dont like what the wristed housing does to the steering one bit, id much rather a radius arm being wristed.

What does it do to the steering? I'd love to hear your theory on this. I haven't noticed any affect on steering with my wristed axle housing.

Dusty

toe in would definitely change when the housing twists
you didn't notice that?

I wheel the piss out of my bronco and drive it on the street a fair amount. Haven't even pinned the arm in years.

The beauty of a wristed arm is it costs $30, where others spend a grand or more for similar performance. Certainly it's not the best solution out there, but that money saved sure is nice to use elsewhere. Then again, I guess some folks won't consider it unless it's endorsed by a vendor and comes with a sticker :rolleyes:

Since we're posting poseur shots, here's my pos.

http://www.broncoii4x4.com/bb/flex.jpg

http://www.broncoii4x4.com/walker_valley-12-11-04/walker_valley-06.jpg

http://www.broncoii4x4.com/bb/rockramp.jpg

toe in would definitely change when the housing twists
you didn't notice that?

yeah it might change a cunthair or two but that's all. The housing twists maybe a quarter inch when flexed up. That's all it takes to relieve the bind that inhibits flex. What does this translate to in terms of toe-in change? Not much. The tie rod becomes just slightly misaligned with the axle housing, bringing the steering arms on the knuckles ever so slightly closer together, which in theory would affect toe-in at the microscopic level. Like I said maybe a CH or two, probably just a few thousandths of an inch, and that's only when flexed up. And in real world use, no I can't notice it since its so minuscule. Come on down sometime and I'll give you a ride. Its very stable at high speeds through the sand washes.

Dusty

seems like a lot of work to retain the C bushings

ill wrist it before i do anything to the housing. and before i would wrist a housing id spend the extra cash on a 60 or 404's and then just 2 link it, but im not at that stage yet, and by the time i am, i wont be driving this on the street at all

I only mentioned the wristable housing because It seamed you were interested in keeping the ford style radius arms and you mentioned bending radius arms and spinning tubes, that would prevent the pressure that would do such things, I believe that a three link would be easier.

as far as wristable housings and radius arms being streetable, you could fab them to accept pins so as to not wrist when you hit the streets.

yeah it might change a cunthair or two but that's all. The housing twists maybe a quarter inch when flexed up. That's all it takes to relieve the bind that inhibits flex. What does this translate to in terms of toe-in change? Not much. The tie rod becomes just slightly misaligned with the axle housing, bringing the steering arms on the knuckles ever so slightly closer together, which in theory would affect toe-in at the microscopic level. Like I said maybe a CH or two, probably just a few thousandths of an inch, and that's only when flexed up. And in real world use, no I can't notice it since its so minuscule. Come on down sometime and I'll give you a ride. Its very stable at high speeds through the sand washes.

Dusty


Well truthfully, 1/4" at the housing is going to be more than an inch at the TRE...more than enough to give bad steering. I still haven't ever seen a good argument as to why a wah is better than a simple wristed arm...

Well truthfully, 1/4" at the housing is going to be more than an inch at the TRE...more than enough to give bad steering.

Braxton think about the geometry a little bit. Yeah maybe when flexed one end of the tie rod is an inch or more higher than the other end. But what does that translate into in terms of how much closer together the steering knuckles get to each other? Regardless of the fact that you can't seem to get your mind around the geometry, in the real world there has been no steering problems for me or the dozen or so others I know who run it. Its a non issue that people glom onto when searching for a reason to bash something they don't understand. I haven't sat here and bashed the hinged arm's tendency to dive in hard braking, or the fact that you have to pin it to avoid that, or the fact that it places more stress on the unhinged arm which you also need to beef up for peace of mind. In fairness I will point out the only downside I know of with the WAH, and that is that it can place more rotational torque on the center section under acceleration, which now there is only one side rigidly attached to a radius arm to counter this force (as with a hinged arm). I've seen one axle tube spun in the housing on the rigid side of a WAH'd D44 from this. This is opposed to a hinged arm, where these forces are applicable in both acceleration and braking, but only in acceleration on the WAH.

I still haven't ever seen a good argument as to why a wah is better than a simple wristed arm...

Truthfully there is no good argument for you, since you already have your hinged arm and have convinced yourself how bitchin it is. I don't think I ever claimed the WAH is better than anything else for every person and every rig, but for me it was the best option and I've been very happy with it. Others will place more value on the ease of install or the cheaper cost, or some percieved design superiority of other methods. That's fine with me, to each his own, and if your setup works well for you that's great. But if someone is planning or build a rig and considering all of the various alternatives for enhancing flex in the radius arm style suspension, there are several options to consider and the WAH is one of them. And since I'm happy with mine I will always be happy to tell others about it and counter the bogus arguments against it.

Dusty

The beauty of a wristed arm is it costs $30, where others spend a grand or more for similar performance. Certainly it's not the best solution out there, but that money saved sure is nice to use elsewhere. Then again, I guess some folks won't consider it unless it's endorsed by a vendor and comes with a sticker :rolleyes:

]
I agree, People think wristed arms make the other arm bend is BS, Radius arms bend because they are junk, when you add tires and gears its only a matter of time.
I think the guys tossing almost 800$ for aftermarket arms is crazy, thats a lot of cash to be spending on a radius arm front end.

it is a proven design, used for at least 100 years. look under early fords 1900-1940s, unimog to present day
what exactly do you doubt about it's "streetability"?

what i have found from a streetability point of view is that with a long travel suspension it is prone to bump steer.normally with a track bar the axle moves sideways with suspension travel,but is kept perpendicular to the frame because the links to the frame(be they radius arms or four-link or whatever)tend to form a parellelogram...in the two link since there is a single pivot point behind the axle,the axle swings around this point so as the suspension cycles the axle does not remain perpendicular to the frame,thus inducing a steering input.with a short travel suspension,this effect is negligible,but as the track-bar swings through a larger arc,it becomes pronounced enough to affect handling.i've run this system for three years now,and while i've gotten used to it's effects,they are still noticeable.
on a historical note,while the mog system is by design identical to mine,but using coil springs instead of transverse leafs as i have,the transevrse leaf on those early fords is used to locate the axle rather than using a trac bar.i use the leaf solely as a spring,and not a locating device.

I think the guys tossing almost 800$ for aftermarket arms is crazy, thats a lot of cash to be spending on a radius arm front end.




But they have MAD flex....

I have twisted the 44 housing with a wristed arm and so have a few friends. For hardcore wheeling, dependability is number 1 for me. I copied Jim Howells front 4 link that uses a panhard bar (factory link). This is a pic of the 4 link using the factory lower mounts on the frame. it now flexes much better than the wristed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/toxicar/4link1.jpg

Longer arms such as Jim Coles design (Cage offroad, duff's) works extremely well also. Add 5.5" coils that are broken in and with this design you can actually reach the limits of heim joint in the steering (close to 15inches of travel!! got the pics of Karl Bradley's rig in paragon flexing incredible!!)

Extended 68 EB frame and drivetrain. Flex shots in action.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/toxicar/paragon2.jpg

4 link front, national 11 leaf rear, 3.5" rockcrawler coils up front. More flex could be gotten out of 5.5" springs up front.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/toxicar/Paragon1.jpg

or some percieved design superiority of other methods

that is fawking hilarious

Swapped EB axles into my Jeep and kept the radius arm stuff (the axles were free and I wasn't spending any more money on them) so I kept the radius arm stuff and just wristed an arm, I also moved the trackbar mount up on top. It works good and has held up well during all the hard core stuff. I still pin it when driving on the street. I don't like the dive with it unpinned.

http://members.cox.net/riophaz/djeep2.jpg

http://members.cox.net/riophaz/djeep1.jpg

that is fawking hilarious

Glad you got a kick out of it! :grinpimp: