I've got a 4x4 project vehicle that I'm getting back to working on that has a 14-Bolt FF rear axle. I've not been out looking around in the 4x4 world lately to know if anything new has been introduced for the 14 bolt rear axle?? I've been considering a Detroit Locker however if there is anything else like a ARB or electric locker I'd sure like to hear about it's availability.

I'm going to post in the "Wanted" forum for a used 14-Bolt Detroit Locker however I'd sure appreciate any referrals/suggestions on where the 'good deal' exists for purchasing a new Detroit Locker.

Thanks!!

Gone 'XPLRN'

PS.....If anyone has a reccomendation of a particular add-on diff cover(14-bolt) protection manufacturer I'd certainly appreciate the referral.

Detroit is the best dif IMO
I wouldnt consider anything else, my new 1978 ford has them front and rear

the best deal I have seen is available in the P4x4 Vendor section.

ARB is available

weld that fawker and dont look back. but if you want to drop some cash, you can get an ARB now

Yukon also makes a full spool. Havent heard any one who uses one though. Or get the Lincoln out. My .02$

ARB is available

Thanks for the "heads-up" on the ARB availability!! I did locate the RD114 part number on the ARB website for the 10.5" FF Corperate 14-bolt axle. I'll have to check with some of the P 4x4 vendors and see what kind of price they have on that unit.

The other suggestions, Lincoln Locker and spool are options I probably won't pursue. I'd like to have decent turning capabilities off-road as I've got a little excess front OA weight with the 6.2 TD engine. It's got the "lighter" Dana 44 front axle so I'm trying to avoid stressing the axle/axle shafts by not installing something in the rear diff that will want to "push" that front end around a corner.

If any other manufacturers of a stout/reliable traction device besides the stand-by Detroit Locker come to mind I'd sure like to hear about them. Thanks!

'XPLRN'

Teraflex is also supposed to have a T-locker out for it which is like an ARB...

I think Tractech also sells a Tru-trac for them too... But thats an LSD.

The other suggestions, Lincoln Locker and spool are options I probably won't pursue. I'd like to have decent turning capabilities off-road as I've got a little excess front OA weight with the 6.2 TD engine. It's got the "lighter" Dana 44 front axle so I'm trying to avoid stressing the axle/axle shafts by not installing something in the rear diff that will want to "push" that front end around a corner.


I really can't see that being a problem. If a rear spool or welded diff puts too much stress on the front axle by simply turning, than you better never go off-road because the first time you try to climb any obstacle the entire front axle will explode into dust..........

yea i wouldnt worry about the rear pushing the front around unless you are in 2wd and its muddy or snowy/wet

welded driveability sucks ass compared to a detroit

i welded the 14ff in my k5 and wouldn't ever go back. cheap and works fine. i dont see how it would push the front end in cornering since the front is open and able to turn. i've never heard of the front letting going because the rear was spooled/welded. *shrug*

Teraflex is also supposed to have a T-locker out for it which is like an ARB...


I did contact Teraflex and was informed that there will not be any futher development work on the 14-bolt FF T-locker for 6 months to a year. Sounds like they are REAL busy with just trying to keep up with their current product line, that is great that their business is booming!!

Anybody drving their spooled/Lincoln Locked 14-bolt FF equipped vehicle on the street with any regularity?? I'm curious as to how the rear tires wear?? I have quite a bit of rear OA weight so the rear tires will have more load on them than say a pickup would

Thanks to everyone for their input on the 14-bolt FF axle situation. Since this vehicle(4x4 van) will also be utilized for street usage/road trips I'm leaning towards either a Detroit or ARB setup.....time will tell!! IF anyone has a DL sitting around on a shelf not being utilized shoot me a PM with a price.

'XPLRN'

Why go spool? I can't believe any wheeler installs a spool in an axle that will accept a detroit. Detroit's aren't that much more expensive. A spool (or welded diff) will cause excessive tire wear, IMO. Not that the detroit is much better, but it is definitely better, tire-wear wise. Also, before tires break loose in high traction situations, the detroit will give some, with its ratcheting, so it's easier on axles and R&Ps than a spool or welded diff.

The van's rear weight will help tame the detroit's unfavorable on-road characteristics, namely the sudden jerk when letting off the gas on a curve.

Why go spool? I can't believe any wheeler installs a spool in an axle that will accept a detroit. Detroit's aren't that much more expensive. A spool (or welded diff) will cause excessive tire wear, IMO. Not that the detroit is much better, but it is definitely better, tire-wear wise. Also, before tires break loose in high traction situations, the detroit will give some, with its ratcheting, so it's easier on axles and R&Ps than a spool or welded diff.

The van's rear weight will help tame the detroit's unfavorable on-road characteristics, namely the sudden jerk when letting off the gas on a curve.


I agree.. I was going to weld the rear of my truck and detroit the front... I ponied up the extra $375 and got a detroit for the rear.... works great... love it and glad I did it... funny how when you are at a stop and hit the gas... turn... the rear tires BARK ... it is funny to see peoples faces...

there aren't many options because the Detroit is so damn reliable, unbreakable and cheap (especially compared to an ARB!). Hard combo to beat. I run them front and rear in my rig and wouldn't have it any other way.

j

there aren't many options because the Detroit is so damn reliable, unbreakable and cheap (especially compared to an ARB!).

I don't usually get into the ARB vs. Detroit pissing contests because they both have their pros and cons and this has been bantered back and forth way too many times...however the 14 bolt Detroit is not one you can argue your point on except that it is cheap. I have seen more broken Detroit 14 bolt units than any other model Detroit (well okay not counting the D35 model, but that's not a real axle :D ). They went the cheap route and only offer a drop in lunch box style. The ARB is a full carrier replacement that'll hold more load than any lunch box unit period.

yeah, good point... the ff14b detroit definitely isn't 100% bomb proof. It is pretty dang strong though, and even if it does break... a new carrier for a ff14b is what? $50?

j

does anyone have a side by side comparo of the detroit 14ff and lets say one from a d70 to compare component size.
the 14ff detroit is nothing like a 'lunch box locker' IMO
no goofy spring loaded pins to fail like a LBL

are you saying the carrier fails and needs to be replaced to make the 14ff strong?

Man weld that sucker up and dont look back.Save your money and spend it where its gonna help you even more off road.Any locker is gonna be locked up in a corner under power so whats the difference?UNless you opt for the big money ARB's there all gonna act very similar.One bad thing about the detroit or any other locker is that it will act quirky while cornering and you get on and off the gas.Welded or spooled will act the same ALL the time.I ran a welded 14 bolt in daily driven 1 ton chevy pickup for about a year and yes there was a little more tire wear than "normal" but it wasnt excessive.And to be honest the only time I didnt care for it was when I was driving on ice and even then a locker would have acted the same........just my .02...... :)

my 14 bolt had the stock gov-loc and worked like a posi all the time let me just say i broke the pinion teeth before the gov-loc came close to breaking.

I don't usually get into the ARB vs. Detroit pissing contests because they both have their pros and cons and this has been bantered back and forth way too many times...however the 14 bolt Detroit is not one you can argue your point on except that it is cheap. I have seen more broken Detroit 14 bolt units than any other model Detroit (well okay not counting the D35 model, but that's not a real axle :D ). They went the cheap route and only offer a drop in lunch box style. The ARB is a full carrier replacement that'll hold more load than any lunch box unit period.
Perhaps you're right that 14bFF Detroits would be stronger if offered as a full carrier replacement, but does what's in your sig have anything to do with your opinion that 14bFF Detroits are "cheap" "lunchbox lockers?" :shaking:

Tim the tech man
206-264-1669
Air Locker Inc.
20 So. Spokane St.
Seattle, WA 98134
tlund@arbusa.com

Poet, Tim has never tried to hide his employment...

Second, 14ff detroit are lunchbox lockers, not full case units, which does make them weaker.

There is no question arb's are stronger. The only question is, "Are you willing to pay three times as much for greater strength(which you may never need), and better road manners?"

Perhaps you're right that 14bFF Detroits would be stronger if offered as a full carrier replacement, but does what's in your sig have anything to do with your opinion that 14bFF Detroits are "cheap" "lunchbox lockers?" :shaking:

Tim the tech man
206-264-1669
Air Locker Inc.
20 So. Spokane St.
Seattle, WA 98134
tlund@arbusa.com


Most everyone on the board knows I work for ARB and I usually don't get into the ARB vs. Detroit pissing matches. They both have pros and cons and you can argue back and forth until you're blue in the face and that has been done way too many times on this board. Oh wait a minute, this sounds almost like the disclaimer I put in my first post... :rolleyes:

However.... I have been wheeling and working on diffs for 16 years now and have only owned ARBs since I started working for them 7 years ago, so that leaves 9 years where I ran many different 4wd rigs with just about everything else; Open, True-Tracs, Power-Locks, Power-Brutes, Lock-rites and Detroits and either wore out, broke or ruined just about everyone of them. SO I do feel fairly qualified to chime in about diff locks, it's what I do every work day and it's not only ARBs, although you wouldn't think it, occasionally we end up fielding calls about other differentials and at least try to help the guy out so he knows what to do or where to go next.

As a side note when I first started for ARB they didn't make lockers for the axles I had back then and I attended 4wd events as a rep for ARB for the first year of my employment with a lock-rite in the front and a Detroit in the rear until I was able to build up a set of real axles and drop in a couple ARBs.

As you might have noticed I didn't say anything bad about Detroit in my post, only stated that the 14 bolt drop in was the most comon broken model of Detroit besides the D35 I had seen. Detroits are good solid units (just like any differential: if installed right and kept in good condition) and I've owned a couple of 'em in years past.

OK, my mistake. I apologize.:)

Most everyone on the board knows I work for ARB and I usually don't get into the ARB vs. Detroit pissing matches. They both have pros and cons and you can argue back and forth until you're blue in the face and that has been done way too many times on this board.
As you might have noticed I didn't say anything bad about Detroit in my post, only stated that the 14 bolt drop in was the most comon broken model of Detroit besides the D35 I had seen. Detroits are good solid units (just like any differential: if installed right and kept in good condition) and I've owned a couple of 'em in years past.
I, for one, do appreciate your input regarding my options for the 14-Bolt FF axle I'm dealing with. I've not been around the 'wheeling community as long as a lot of the folks that have contributed their thoughts to this thread that I started, however the discussion has helped with the thought processing of my needs.

For the vehicle application(4x4 van) that I'm dealing with, having a lot of OA weight, infrequency of situations where I really need to be locked up AND the need for on-road vehicle operation predictability in varied weather conditions the ARB will probably be the way I go. Thanks to all who shared their thoughts regarding traction options for the 14-Bolt FF axle; Happy 'Wheeling to all!! :)

Gone 'XPLRN'.......

seems like the perfect application for a Detroit
put it in and never have to think about it again

As you might have noticed I didn't say anything bad about Detroit in my post, only stated that the 14 bolt drop in was the most comon broken model of Detroit besides the D35 I had seen. Detroits are good solid units (just like any differential: if installed right and kept in good condition) and I've owned a couple of 'em in years past.

Not trying to argue or anything, but exactly how many / how often do you see someone break a 14FF Detroit?? I know some people can break anything, but I always considered a 14FF Detroit just about as close to bullet-proof as you can get.

Also, in regards to all of the Detroit failures you have seen how many had a shaft failure at the same time?

Regarding the durability of ARB's, I have never seen anybody actually fail the differential itself. However I cannot count the number of times the locking function has been disabledd due an issue with internal seals, air lines, air compressor, solenoids, switches, etc... It could always be poor installation or maintenance, but everybody I ride with on a regular basis who has ARB's has had an issue on the trail with them not engaging at one time or another. Do I think ARB's are bad........no, just that they have some negatives to go along with their versatility.

Also, in regards to all of the Detroit failures you have seen how many had a shaft failure at the same time?

However I cannot count the number of times the locking function has been disabledd due an issue with internal seals, air lines, air compressor, solenoids, switches, etc... .

I'd hear about some of the "issues" relating to ARB's also.......however in talking with some seemingly knowledgeable sales people about those "issues" I was informed that there had been a notable re-engineering by ARB on the seal issue in Jan/Feb 2005 and that the 'new' 14-Bolt FF ARB would have those improvements.

I'm sure that 'Tech Tim' could elaborate on that and I'd also appreciate hearing a bit more about the 14-Bolt DL breakage(under what kind of usage/conditions) and or shaft failures. Just trying to glean knowledge about the rear axle in My project vehicle. I'm NOT trying to stir up any kind of "pissing contest" about the relative strength of different axles......just trying to get a sense of what the axle I've got will take!! Thanks in advance 'Tech Tim'! :)

'XPLRN'

welded driveability sucks ass compared to a detroit

I differ in opinion here... Granted they weren't in a 14FF, but I have had both welded and Detroit'd 12 bolts. I much preferred the Welded over the Detroit.... No quirky locking and unlocking from the welded. Both rear were in K5's with the same lift and tires so they were pretty comparable and weren't completely different vehicles.

If I had the funds to go with anything I wanted, I would go with a selectable locker and probably an ARB(in all my diffs)...

detroit it and dont look back i love my detroit :smokin:

Not trying to argue or anything, but exactly how many / how often do you see someone break a 14FF Detroit?? I know some people can break anything, but I always considered a 14FF Detroit just about as close to bullet-proof as you can get.

Also, in regards to all of the Detroit failures you have seen how many had a shaft failure at the same time?

Regarding the durability of ARB's, I have never seen anybody actually fail the differential itself. However I cannot count the number of times the locking function has been disabledd due an issue with internal seals, air lines, air compressor, solenoids, switches, etc... It could always be poor installation or maintenance, but everybody I ride with on a regular basis who has ARB's has had an issue on the trail with them not engaging at one time or another. Do I think ARB's are bad........no, just that they have some negatives to go along with their versatility.


6.2 wants to put me on the spot so... AGAIN with a disclaimer: I am not flaming Detroits, I've ran them in years past and have high respect for them AND everything breaks, alot of the time it is a matter of improper application or just flat out cyclic fatigue. Keep in mind that I see broken diffs just about everyday as does the Detroit tech guy, so we both have many stories to tell of wild carnage.........that said, on we go.....

My original post was I saw more 14 bolt lunch box units break more than any other (besides the D35) and that was due to JKBROWNS claim That "the Detroit is so damn reliable, unbreakable and cheap (especially compared to an ARB!)" Sorry Couldn't let it slide.

Thinking back I would say I've seen about 6 or 7 broken 14 bolt FF detroits, mostly in full size trucks with big blocks and 44" tires, so they are getting stressed pretty hard. 2 of 'em in the same truck within a couple months and yes the guy is an absolute yahoo driver and beats the hell out of his truck and no he wasn't pissed that he broke it, if anything he was quite proud he did. Talk to Keith over at Appalachian Off Road in GA, his big blocked Chevy with 44 Boggers will tear them out at will if he is not careful. It's been a few years since I've been out to see him, but last time I was he had the rear on the bench putting in a new diff lock.

Can't say I've seen a 14 bolt shaft break yet, I've heard of people breaking them, but haven't seen one myself. And yes I do know that when you break a shaft the rapid unlock and lock-up can cause a failure in an automatic locking differential like Detroit. This is also why it is not recommended to run Warn fusible hubs links, but that is something you accept if you run an automatic locking diff. On the flip side a broken shaft can damage an Air Locker too, but most of the time it will only hog out one of the end caps and so it is a relatively inexpensive repair.

Now to show I am not biased to flaming any one brand over the other: What model Air Locker have I seen break more than any other? The Dana 35 of course, put a real axle in your rig first then spend your money on gears and lockers, not the other way around. The next most comon, the Dana 30; size your axles to your application and you'll cut down the failure rate immensly. Maybe the Detroit tech/warranty guy will come on and candidly tell what the number 1 and 2 models he has seen fail, probably the same as ours.

Are there more parts in an Air Locker system than an automatic locker system, sure, you've got to operate it some how. As to your claims that uncountable times have you seen air lines, switches, solenoids, air seals fail..... You tell us, why did each one of those fail? Anything that fails has a reason: Was it poor quality of materials, improper assembly at the factory, bad installation, poor maintenance, bad electrical connection, poor routing of the air lines or ?

OK I've written way too much for a PBB post... sorry to put you all to sleep, us tech boys can get a little boring at times... back to your fast paced exciment filled lives... :flipoff2:

Detroit in my 14ff for 16 years, 454, auto, 39.5" Swampers, lots of street and highway driving. Offroad mostly mud and snow. No problems. I love it. I wouldn't mind an ARB to save on rear tire wear. Sometimes the Detroit is quirky like on ice on the highway. If I feel the rear starting to walk on me I just let off the throttle and coast so I straighten out. Just got to be an alert and competent driver, but I can see how it can be scary sometimes. I've been caught by surprise a few times with that one quirk.

I have 2 1978 broncos in my driveway, one welded rear and ezlocker front, the other detroit front and rear.
driving the welded rear is a PITA
ran a detroit in the rear of my chev for a decade
never owned a selectable but have wheeled alongside them.
I agree 100% with jekbrown, ARB cannot touch Detroit reliability

yea but the point isnt why the ARB failed, its that it did. i think what everyone is trying to say is that a detroit is a little more foolproof. there is just more of a chance of an arb failing because you have external components to deal with

check genera;l diss. aussie is having a give away for every one contacted them they'll have production unit out at the end of summer but if you win you can get a prepodution unit buddy of mine has on in a d44 loves it and no probs :shaking:

Sidebar:

I've been looking for side gears for my 14 bolt Detroit for months. I tried the dealers but they want a fortune. If you have a set please PM as I don't want to hijack this thread anymore than I already have. TIA.