IH flat top knuckles ?

[Brawler]

Did a search and found that there was a discussion awhile back about international flat top knuckles. If i only want to raise the steering to eliminate the Z do i only need the pass side? Do i have to change anything else? Does anyone know where i can get them (not parts mike)? Thanks.

[Scout Dude]

yes, you only need the pass side one..J&W auto wreckers has a them but they want $100 per knuckle. If it were me, I would swap to the jeep/chevy knuckles, spindles, and outer axles...use the ford rotor/bearing hub and buy some warns premium hubs...call it a day. A little more money, but stronger set up than the external hubs and easier to find parts for.

[Brawler]

Originally posted by Scout Dude
yes, you only need the pass side one..J&W auto wreckers has a them but they want $100 per knuckle. If it were me, I would swap to the jeep/chevy knuckles, spindles, and outer axles...use the ford rotor/bearing hub and buy some warns premium hubs...call it a day. A little more money, but stronger set up than the external hubs and easier to find parts for.

I'm gonna go with the warn internal hub conversion and warn/ctm combo on the axles. Just want to keep it simple.

[jdjanda]

Just pick-up pass and driver chevy knuckles and have them redrilled for the 8 bolt pattern, then you have move options down the road. You can even do it at home with a drill using the spindle as a pattern. The top and bottom bolts line up, so you only need six new holes, and there is plenty of meat for the extra holes.

Joe

[Old Scout]

Originally posted by jdjanda
Just pick-up pass and driver chevy knuckles and have them redrilled for the 8 bolt pattern, then you have move options down the road. You can even do it at home with a drill using the spindle as a pattern. The top and bottom bolts line up, so you only need six new holes, and there is plenty of meat for the extra holes.

Joe

Something like this?

[jdjanda]

Originally posted by Old Scout


Something like this?

Gee where'd you get that:question: :question:

The BB is down this morning couldn't pull a copy, glad someone is on the ball.

Joe

[Old Scout]

Originally posted by jdjanda


Gee where'd you get that:question: :question:


Joe

100 gig hard drive. I have everything!:flipoff2:

[Brawler]

Looks easy enough. Looks like four holes lined up. My next question would be is that all that needs to be done? Can i still use all my other scout stuff? And who has one of those knuckles they want to sell me?

[Old Scout]

Here are the two best places to find them:

Try here first (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=14)

Try here 2nd (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=15)

[Ben W]

Originally posted by Scout Dude
yes, you only need the pass side one..J&W auto wreckers has a them but they want $100 per knuckle. If it were me, I would swap to the jeep/chevy knuckles, spindles, and outer axles...use the ford rotor/bearing hub and buy some warns premium hubs...call it a day. A little more money, but stronger set up than the external hubs and easier to find parts for.


I don't think only getting the pass side on would work very well. The cast arm on a scout knuckle is higher than the cast arm on a flat top knuckle, so the tierod would be at a funky angle.

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by Ben W



I don't think only getting the pass side on would work very well. The cast arm on a scout knuckle is higher than the cast arm on a flat top knuckle, so the tierod would be at a funky angle.

oh...learn something new everyday.

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by Ben W



I don't think only getting the pass side on would work very well. The cast arm on a scout knuckle is higher than the cast arm on a flat top knuckle, so the tierod would be at a funky angle.

:idea:

Someone might want to measure.. what if you put the tie-rod BELOW on the Scout knuckle, and ABOVE on the GM knuckle? I wonder just how far off they'd be.

Aside from that.. what's the functional drawback to a tie-rod that isn't perfectly parallel with the axle tube?

what if you used a Z tie-rod (not a "Z" like we usually think, but a shorter Z?). The stock tie-rod has the bend in the middle to clear either the diff or the oil pan (not sure which)..

Or is this just a "look" thing that I don't understand yet? Probably right up there with paint or something.. :D

[Ben W]

Originally posted by tsm1mt


:idea:

Someone might want to measure.. what if you put the tie-rod BELOW on the Scout knuckle, and ABOVE on the GM knuckle? I wonder just how far off they'd be.

Aside from that.. what's the functional drawback to a tie-rod that isn't perfectly parallel with the axle tube?

what if you used a Z tie-rod (not a "Z" like we usually think, but a shorter Z?). The stock tie-rod has the bend in the middle to clear either the diff or the oil pan (not sure which)..

Or is this just a "look" thing that I don't understand yet? Probably right up there with paint or something.. :D


You've got to be kidding me. :rolleyes: Why is there a trend on this board of wanting to hack something together half assed because 'I don't see why that's needed'? :confused: There is a big difference between being a budget builder and being a cheap hack. Odds are, if you locate a pass side flattop knuckle, you are about 4 feet away from a driverside flattop knuckle. GET THEM BOTH.

[jdjanda]

Originally posted by Ben W



You've got to be kidding me. :rolleyes: Why is there a trend on this board of wanting to hack something together half assed because 'I don't see why that's needed'? :confused: There is a big difference between being a budget builder and being a cheap hack. Odds are, if you locate a pass side flattop knuckle, you are about 4 feet away from a driverside flattop knuckle. GET THEM BOTH.

Because you have to drill 6 extra holes, jeez do you know how expensive drill bits are :flipoff2:

Really I can't see a reason either, and the drivers side is already flat-top and ready to go.

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by Ben W



You've got to be kidding me. :rolleyes: Why is there a trend on this board of wanting to hack something together half assed because 'I don't see why that's needed'? :confused: There is a big difference between being a budget builder and being a cheap hack. Odds are, if you locate a pass side flattop knuckle, you are about 4 feet away from a driverside flattop knuckle. GET THEM BOTH.

Hey now, there's a difference between wanting to know "Why wouldn't it work?" and "I'm going to do mine that way" :flipoff2:

*I* don't have a problem sourcing flat-top knuckles - IH or Chevy.

I have a source for high-steer arms to do the steering the way I want to.

That still doesn't explain what is inherently wrong with a Chevy flat-top on one end, with the tie-rod entering from the top, and a stock IH knuckle on the driver's side, with the tie-rod entering from the bottom - or even running the tie-rod at an angle.

Each person gets to make the call whether they're happy with the way it LOOKS and the way it works.. I was just wondering why it *wouldn't* work.

Worst thing I can think of is some skewed Ackerman angles thanks to potentially different distances from the knuckle pivot center-line (ball-joints) to the tie-rod mounting location.

That could make things a little screwy.. but it's not like we have a "correct" Ackerman to begin with.

Personally, I agree, Ben. Grab both arms, and do it right.

But for "your" rig.. "you" make the call.


As long as there's no welding involved! :D

[Brandonw]

Originally posted by tsm1mt


That still doesn't explain what is inherently wrong with a Chevy flat-top on one end, with the tie-rod entering from the top, and a stock IH knuckle on the driver's side, with the tie-rod entering from the bottom - or even running the tie-rod at an angle.

Each person gets to make the call whether they're happy with the way it LOOKS and the way it works.. I was just wondering why it *wouldn't* work.

Worst thing I can think of is some skewed Ackerman angles thanks to potentially different distances from the knuckle pivot center-line (ball-joints) to the tie-rod mounting location.

That could make things a little screwy.. but it's not like we have a "correct" Ackerman to begin with.



Thats how the tie rod on my rig is. Since I put a 44 flat top on the 10 bolt axle, one end goes from the top and the other goes from the bottom. Thats how it will stay til I get enough cash to raise the tie rod above the springs. Havent noticed any real weird handling so far. One thing thaat worys me is that since its at an angle seems like it may bend easier since force is being pushed on it from two diferent angles isntead of a straight line.:confused:Is this a problem that I should worry about?
http://208.185.216.253/ebaypixx/2001-01-21/DSC00050.JPG

[Bindernut]

Originally posted by Brandonw

One thing thaat worys me is that since its at an angle seems like it may bend easier since force is being pushed on it from two diferent angles isntead of a straight line.:confused:Is this a problem that I should worry about?


Not at all. Because, your reasoning is faulty. The tie rod ISN'T being pushed on from "two different angles". Tie rod ends are effectively "pinned" connections, meaning they cannot transfer bending moments, which means that the net force transfered through the tie rod is along the direction of the tie rod. So, just because one end is up and the other is down, that doesn't introduce any bigger loads on it than any other arrangement. Don't worry about it.

The news to me is that a D44 knuckle has the same ball joint locations as a 10-bolt yoke! Are they really the same, or just close enough to adjust the ball joints to make it work?

Thanks,
Sean

[Brandonw]

Originally posted by Bindernut


Not at all. Because, your reasoning is faulty. The tie rod ISN'T being pushed on from "two different angles". Tie rod ends are effectively "pinned" connections, meaning they cannot transfer bending moments, which means that the net force transfered through the tie rod is along the direction of the tie rod. So, just because one end is up and the other is down, that doesn't introduce any bigger loads on it than any other arrangement. Don't worry about it.

The news to me is that a D44 knuckle has the same ball joint locations as a 10-bolt yoke! Are they really the same, or just close enough to adjust the ball joints to make it work?

Thanks,
Sean

Cool, thanks for explaining that to me. i thought that I was gonna pretzel it soon if i kept driving it like that. The location of the TRE's seem to be the same just that one comes from the top and the other from the bottom.The knuckles as far as i know are interchangable between 10 bolts and 44's, i just dont think that 10 bolts ever came with flat tops.