Friend of mine is putting 35's on his 97 tj and we can't decide whether to go 4.56's or 4.88's. I've heard that the 4.88's for that axle are very weak. Someone care to enlighten me? BTW it' a 4 cyl. 5 speed. Thanx in advance.

It's not the ring gear that is weak it is the smaller pinon gear!
Go with the 4.56's for the most strength but the 4.88's would allow you to crawl a bit slower and give you more torque going up hill at a slower speed.
Mike:fj: :jeep2:

dont waste the money on that axle, you will regret it

I agree with YJTJ don't waste the money on that axle. Your gonna wind up breaking it with the 35's. At least move up to a 44.

Originally posted by yjtj
dont waste the money on that axle, you will regret it

Ditto. I mean, we can forgive you for askin' 'cause you're obviously from the Toyota board, but dumping any money into a Dana 35 is pretty much counterproductive... Unless the guy is sticking with stock-sized tires--and even then the shafts (and in the case of 4.88s, the pinion too) would be marginal in a D35 with such low gears.

Better (and cheaper) to spend his money on a D44 or an 8.8 out of a Ford Exploder.

Jake

4.88's with the 4mice under the hood, he won't be able to pull fith on the highway with 4.56, and with the weak torque of the 2.5 the lower the better.

If he's determined to run 35's on a 35 then he should run 4.88's. I'm running them with a 4 and 33's and it's performs like stock. Even uses the stock speedo gear.

Will the weakness of the pinion be a problem with 4.88's in a TJ Dana 44? I already have this set up and broke it once but I am convinced that it was as a result of braking the TrueTrac a cupla of ledges before the R&P blew up.

crawling toy.

Let me put it this way. With 33s and 4:10's and a 6cyl. I blew up. And I mean NUKED! six Dana 35c ARB units.

Sure the ring and pinion were ok. But that was just luck.

456 NOT 488! Tooo small of a pinion.

I am assuming he has a dana 30 front end too right?
488 is too smallllllll up front.

Bert,
Wouldnt you ask yourself a question after the 4th ARB? :eek: 6, man you have a long learning curve.

Anyone have any DATA on the strength differences between 4.56 and 4.88's?

I ran 4.88's in my XJ with 33's and a locker with no problems.
I also was running a 4cyl. and a 5 speed.

Gearing was still a bit high for rock crawling so on some of the stuff I did have to gassit and bounce through.

Never broke anything but the surface of the paint on the XJ.

Originally posted by Lame
Anyone have any DATA on the strength differences between 4.56 and 4.88's?

Yeah I'd like to hear from everyone who has creamed a 4.88 in the D30 or D35. They haven't been available very long. How much smaller is the pinion on a 4.88 than a 4.56 anyway?

Originally posted by bigjeepinYJ
Bert,
Wouldnt you ask yourself a question after the 4th ARB? :eek: 6 you have a long learning curve.

thats not a number i'd be braggin' about:D six! man-o-man:rolleyes:

I havn't heard of anyone damaging 4.88's, but twisting and breaking the axles - for sure! With the 4.88's you will reduce the torque on the driveline from the motor to the R&P. Thats why the dana 35 sucks, the axles are to weak for the torque

If you are set on using the 35c I would say go with the 4.88's until it goes boom boom and then swap it.....or just save yourself having to make it go boom boom and swap it now :flipoff2:

Originally posted by 4004ever
With the 4.88's you will reduce the torque on the driveline from the motor to the R&P.

No. You'll reduce the mechanical advantage resisting the torque on those components, but the torqe at a given engine speed will be the same regardless of whatever happens to be "downstream" in the driveline.

4.88s will, however, INCREASE the amount of torque on those little D35 axle shafts by about 7.6% over the 4.56:1 gearset.

Jake

The actual engine torque will remain the same, but the applied force of the torque will be moved 'downstream' to the axles. Therefore, the amount of torque applied to the axles in a 4.88 R&P application will be greater than say 4.56 or 4.10. This becoming the weak link to your 4wheel drive system. A ford 8.8 is the best overall remedy to this situation. IMHO.

:goofball:

can I be first in line to sell ya my used shafts :)

In all seriousness, the D35/D30 combo really isn't worth puttin too much time into, if you get a good deal on the gears, and do the work yourself, maybe, ortherwise upgrade.

No real hard data, but I've heard that with gears that low on the D35/D30 setup, the ring and pinion only has one gear tooth engaged at times. 4.11 (I believe) at least have two teeth transfering torque at all times. If this is true (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) then it doesn't take a math major to figure out the major disadvantage of those deap of gears.

Maybe an off-the-wall idea, but if your set on the stock axles, maybe a low-geared truck 4-speed would help you more than new gears, the lack of OD wouldn't really mater with 35's and 4.11, and the lower first gear would let you get things rolling. At least that way when you do grenade the rear end from the torque, you won't be regretting the money spent on the axle.

chad

Originally posted by chadl

No real hard data, but I've heard that with gears that low on the D35/D30 setup, the ring and pinion only has one gear tooth engaged at times. 4.11 (I believe) at least have two teeth transfering torque at all times. If this is true (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) then it doesn't take a math major to figure out the major disadvantage of those deap of gears.

You're kinda right. Don't really need someone to show you a creamed D30/D35 4.88 pinion to know that it is not as stong as taller gears or bigger diameter ring gears. Check this (http://www.randysringandpinion.com/gear/g0100.html) link. The D30/D35 is not the only one with the problem. I've seen creamed low gear D44 pinions. I guess the reason why there aren't a bunch of creamed D30/D35 4.88 pinions is because they are new and most of the engines turning them are 4's.

Originally posted by 4004ever
I havn't heard of anyone damaging 4.88's

As I mentioned above, I broke my 4.88 R&P in my TJ Dana 44 but I think the TruTrac broke first (causing the R&P to brake in the rock garden). I should have heeded their warning about not going over 32 inch tires.

Who is doing the set up? Is he also getting a locker? If he spends a grand on that thing it will be a grand too much. I hope he is not going to go for the whole super twin turbo 35 axle and truss kit, what a waste of money.:rolleyes:

I run 4.88 gears in my rear 44 and front 30. I have not wheeled them a ton yet but i love them. I run Q78's . I never would have done it in the Dana 35 and should not have dumped the money in to the 30 that i did. (front hub conversion) Basicly what i am trying to say is at least upgrade the 35 and seriously consider the dana 30. Take care and good luck! 4X4XFAR

Originally posted by Recurve


You're kinda right. Don't really need someone to show you a creamed D30/D35 4.88 pinion to know that it is not as stong as taller gears or bigger diameter ring gears. Check this (http://www.randysringandpinion.com/gear/g0100.html) link. The D30/D35 is not the only one with the problem. I've seen creamed low gear D44 pinions. I guess the reason why there aren't a bunch of creamed D30/D35 4.88 pinions is because they are new and most of the engines turning them are 4's.

I should have remembered I'd read that at randy's... Your definetly right, I don't need someone to show me a creamed D35, I got my own :) Obviously the D35 is weaker than a D44 (which is weaker than a D60) for a lot of reasons, but the small ring and pinion is a big one, when looking at low gears. It would be very interesting to expand on Randy's explanation, and develop a chart showing different axles, and where tooth engagement changes from 2 or 3 down to 1 or 2. It would seem to me that anyone setting up an axle would want to avoid that change over be it at 4.11 for a D35, or 5.13 for a D60.

Personally I'm going with a 9" rear and D44 up front, with 4.11 gears. I'd like to go lower, but 4.11 are readly available, and should be relatively strong. I make up for the only adequate low axle gears with lower tranny and X-case gears. Plus 4.11 and 35's will mean lossing Overdrive won't be that big of a deal since my junk still sees some pavement pounding.