Full Hydro Help

[JorgeFdz]

Im a newb in full hydro so im gonna ask this one here.

I have a set up with 2 Rams. and my problem is that when im not hitting the gas, the rig wont turn...nothing! any suggestions?

[Tim84K10]

Not enough fluid flow.

[JorgeFdz]

so how do i fix this? a better pump? more fluid? swap for just 1 ram?

[wizard_Drd]

If everything works fine at higher RPM's and you are filled with fluid and bled, then you need a better pump. Check out the tech for options: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/index.html

What vehicle and pump are you running now? Also some specs on the steering unit and cylinders (bore, diameter) would help really diagnosis the problem.

[welndmn]

Why do you have 2 rams?
What size?

[JorgeFdz]

The ram has a label, it reads,

Lion 2500 (wtf?)
8" stroke 2" bore measured the shaft and the shaft is 1.25"

this jeep was not mine, but i dont know what the fuck this guy did, looks like he "decreased" the stroke by welding some kind of stops on the shaft on both of them.

On the pump, i think it is the stock one, if its possible.

[44Runner]

The ram has a label, it reads,

Lion 2500 (wtf?)
8" stroke 2" bore measured the shaft and the shaft is 1.25"

this jeep was not mine, but i dont know what the fuck this guy did, looks like he "decreased" the stroke by welding some kind of stops on the shaft on both of them.

On the pump, i think it is the stock one, if its possible.

Yeah, so that sounds kinda ghetto.

I would change out your ram setup. Definately go with just one ram and make sure to get a bore that your pump can move effectively...

[welndmn]

one 2x8 ram is more then enough for most people.
I bet your pump does have enough PSI to move the 2 rams.
Just remove the lines from one ram and plug them, see if that helps.

[JorgeFdz]

you mean just unplug them, then plug them?

[wizard_Drd]

you mean just unplug them, then plug them?

Below is a picture of what it should look like now with the lines in black. Remove the T-fittings where they branch off and just run those lines into one cylinder. It should look like the lines in red now. It should not matter which cylinder you use, but make sure you keep the lines feeding the same ports so you keep Left/Right direction correct when you turn the wheel.

Thanks to BillaVista for the original picture.

[RedRooster]

Some people use two rams to make the steering speed the same in each direction. It should also make the amount of turns left or right the same. However, two rams that size are not necessary. One will suffice. The difference in speeds and amount of turns is almost unnoticeable once you get used to it. The difference in speed and turns is a product of one side of your cylinder having space taken up by the chrome rod. It takes less oil to fill that area than the area without the rod therefore it is faster.
I would suggest changing the pump. If that does not fix your problem then either you have hoses that are too large or your pump does not provide enough flow for two cylinders (not likely). The hose size should be the same as the ports on your ram. I believe that ram has 3/8" ports.
BTW... the 2500 on the sticker means it is rated to 2500 psi max. The model would be a 20TL080.
What model valve are you using? There should be a tag on the front.

[RedBullJeep]

Why don't you try to switch to a smaller pump pulley first???

Basically, if you have good turning at higher RPM but not low, spinning the pump a little faster with a smaller pulley will most likely get you over the hump. It is an easy and inexpensive first step. Call West Texas OffRoad (325) 651-5010 or Station at Performance OffRoad (334) 567-7229 for more ideas/info.

[Bandit0]

Why don't you try to switch to a smaller pump pulley first???

Basically, if you have good turning at higher RPM but not low, spinning the pump a little faster with a smaller pulley will most likely get you over the hump.

x2

If it steers fine at higher rpm's then all you need to do is overdrive the pump.

[Tim84K10]

You mean overdrive the pump. If you underdrive the pump it'll turn slower.

[RedBullJeep]

If overdriving the pump and underdriving the pump don't work, then you can driveover the pump...cause it would be tough to driveunder the pump...unless you put it on a bridge...does that help?

[Bandit0]

You mean overdrive the pump. If you underdrive the pump it'll turn slower.

Your right overdrive the pump, underdrive the motor, hard to put the pipe down some days.

[JorgeFdz]

thanks for all the help,

this is what i did.

I followed the first thing that i was told. Eliminate 1 ram. so i did. I have the same problem, it wont steer al slow rpms, and now is way to fast! its like 1 turn lock-to-lock.

Ill call tommorow about the pulley cause i know i need more fluid flow for the rams to work properly, or any other suggestions? also about the lock-to-lock issue.

thanks

[Bandit0]

I guess no one said it before, if the strokes on both of your rams was reduced, the fluid displacement would be near equivalent to that of one regular stroke ram. Therefore when you take a ram out of the system it cuts the fluid displacement of the system in half, the orbital valve then only needs half of the cycles that it normally would to move the ram (in short less fluid displace = less turns of the wheel). Your problem, however, is not the amount of fluid being moved it is the "pressure" ie. "speed" at which it is being moved. Your stock pump can't create enough line pressure at low engine rpm's to move the ram. You need a smaller pulley or better pump.

Lock to lock issues- make the rams travel further.

[JorgeFdz]

.

Lock to lock issues- make the rams travel further.


You mean like, buying a ram with more stroke?

[Bandit0]

or just grinding off the homemade stops that are on the one's you have and move them further inboard on the axle, so that the arms have greater travel

[wizard_Drd]

Before doing much more, we really need to find out the specs of the system. You already gave the cylinder specs, now we need the steering unit model or displacement so it everything can be calculated such as lock-to-lock.

[JorgeFdz]

I dont know anything about this steering unit, because the rig was not mine.

Ill search for some kind of plate or numbers in the morning.

[RedBullJeep]

money says the solution is the pulley...

in short...steers great at higher RPM, does not at idle...doesn't matter what the rams are in this case, it works properly at higher RMP. He just needs to get it to work at lower RPM too. That can be done by spinning the pump a little faster.

[JorgeFdz]

but what about the lock to lock issue? i cant seem to find any kind of id or something on this pump as this guy also coated it with a shitload of paint. what should i do!?

[RedBullJeep]

If you did not have a turning issue before, except at low RPM's, hook it up the way it was and simply run a smaller pulley. No sense in re-inventing the wheel if it already worked the way you wanted except at idle.

Basic question...was it good before (with the way it was before this all got started) at mid and high RPM's? If the answer is yes, then put it back the way it was and try a smaller pulley. It is a $50 solution that takes only a few minutes to do...remember, you'll possibly need a new belt length with the new pulley size.

OR

Call:

Matt at West Texas OffRoad (325) 651-5010
or
Station at Performance OffRoad Systems (334) 567-7229