Loon Camping areas closed to vehicles..

[poorwheeler]

According to the USFS person that was up at loon this weekend. He said all the non designated campsites all around loon were to be closed to vehicles as of next week. You would have to pack your gear in and out. He said we couldn't even use an ATV in your campsite. Think parking is tough now on the road. This is probably known to most but I thought I chime in anyways.

Sam

[tacomamike]

Many of the nice spots don't have parking anywhere nearby. And it's not just Loon Lake, it's the entire Eldorado National Forest. Everyone should take a minute and think about how many great camp spots all over the forest are now inaccessable via vechiles.

How many people are going to stop on a blind corner next to Loon Lake, toss out all their crap, drive a mile to find a place to park, then hike back?

Later,
....Mike
http://www.toy4x4.net/

[UGET IT]

This is fawking insane..............................

Time to buy a Harley................

[k5chevyblazer]

We were just up at Loon last weekend camping in a non-campground and nothing was said to us. Atleast they could have mentioned it so we could have cherished the moment a little more :(

[peesalot]

Can you still park a tow rig and trailer at the spillway ???

[randii]

The Emergency Forest Order currently under discussion won't go into affect until the judge finalizes his response to the ENF lawsuit (anticipated in August). After that, FOTR will post specifics as they become defined, but in short, this lawsuit will close traffic in the forest to anything not deemed a USFS system road or trail. This sucks, but the nature of emergency closure is that we can't effectively protest it until it happens, and realistically, we can protest all we want then, but the next steps are where we should probably spend our effort. The Forest Service is trying to get better signage in place for both open roads and good places to park, but they will be enforcing according to their map, not what's signed.

The real work on this will be re-opening the trails currently listed in the inventory but not classes as Forest System Roads (IIRC, that's 2200 miles). Even without public comment, they can institute the emergency action that they plan, but they'll need to plan forward in a public process to create a maintainable forest recreation plan with respect to motorized recreation. We need to get every trail out there entered into the inventory (IIRC, currently 3000 miles of road/trail) and then prepare to lobby insistently, persistently for inclusion of the differnce AND criteria under which new trails/areas can be developed.

Back to the emergency closure: it doesn't apply directly to the Rubicon Trail, per se, since the trail exists inside a county-owned easement with FS lands on either side, and is not a USFS system road. It does, however, impact the land on either side of the trail:
* Don't plan on driving spurs off the trail if they aren't numbered USFS system trails (off the top of my head, the only FS-approved system road that intersects with Rubicon is Barker Pass, and note that the FS does not deem the Ellis to McKinstry road that's been there since the late 70s to be a system road). Access to Forest Service lands at Loon, Spider, and Buck will be a mess -- you can walk, but don't drive... and parking is gonna suck.
* Park carefully within the easement (tough, since the route itself isn't clearly marked, nor are its edges). Specifically, the Loon Lake spillway area may be affected based on the width of the easement, and exact routing of the trail. The FS has committed to moving boulders and marking the parking areas well with signs, so we'll have to see what they actually do.

Randii

[peesalot]

Thank you , that was the best info. yet . What can we do or who do we contact about maping and numbering the trails specifically ? Can satelite photos and GPS coordinates suffice or does there have to be a ground survey to make it stick ?

[BEAR]

That seems to be really unfair to the gen. population that uses the forest. :mad3:
Is it really worse to have a motor driven vehicle on a dirt road than the hundreds of new housing developments going up daily? :rolleyes:


Does anyone have the Judges name and maybe an e-mail so we could try to stop this before it even begin's?

Im leaning more torward the Harley route myself, this is getting outta control.

[randii]

What can we do or who do we contact about maping and numbering the trails specifically?
Here's a post on one of the meetings they held:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365499
Keep in mind that this is a separate effort from the lawsuit results -- the judge is gonna have his say, but the trail inventory needs completed regardless, and we'll use that information to try to get a reasonable settlement after the emergency closure. I know that sounds kinda hopeless, but the fact is that the judge is gonna make his stand based on the case in front of him, and then the Forest Supervisort (John Berry) is going to issue a Forest Order to comply with the judge. As I understand it, neither has any immediate obligation to read email or letters to the contrary... that's the nature of an emergency clsoure. :rolleyes: Sucks.

Getting a trail added to the inventory is as simple as going to their offices (or one of the outrach meetings) and adding it to their maps... they are obliged to do a ground GPS survey later.

That seems to be really unfair to the gen. population that uses the forest. :mad3:
Yup, and there's little comfort in finding that the general populace is just as screwed as 'wheelers this time.

As for buying a Harley, that's giving up... and I ain't ready to do that yet. Our country has a fine history of civilians standing up to bad government. :cool2: This is even more motivation to get engaged... not get out.

Randii

[rockmup]

Yup, and there's little comfort in finding that the general populace is just as screwed as 'wheelers this time.

As for buying a Harley, that's giving up... and I ain't ready to do that yet. Our country has a fine history of civilians standing up to bad government. :cool2: This is even more motivation to get engaged... not get out.

Randii


Well said.
Just what I was thinking.

[BEAR]

Don't mistake my comments as giving up, just getting tired.

I started wheeling for the adventure of exploring, not a challenge. Back when the hard rocks were a deterrent rather than an attractant.

The more I think about it, it seems the reasons I have enjoyed wheeling all these years are now mostly gone. I don’t enjoy it nearly as much anymore with all the politics, PC'ness, showoff's and jerks.

That’s all. :zzz:

[randii]

Don't mistake my comments as giving up, just getting tired.
I'm with ya, Ryan, I'm tired of it, too... hitting the trail is WAY better than hitting a slew of meetings. The politics are no fun but the weekends are WORTH it. Watching the sun set through the trees over granite... WORTH it.

Hang in there,

Randii

[Lil Uzi]

The more I think about it, it seems the reasons I have enjoyed wheeling all these years are now mostly gone. I don’t enjoy it nearly as much anymore with all the politics, PC'ness, showoff's and jerks. That’s all.

Words right out of my mouth. But that said, I have met some of the best people wheeling. Even Rolle !! :smokin:

Randii ????????? IS there any more space in the garage yet ??

[randii]

Randii ????????? IS there any more space in the garage yet ??
Temporary space, Mark, but not permanent space. :p

[NOTPRETTY]

So for the laymen...I go wheeling mid August on the Con...Where can I go legally and how do I know I am in the right spot.

Truth is, you just don't know yet. And how the FS handles this is anyone's guess. We know this. The trail is legal. If you know where the actual GPS mapped trail is, you're fine. If you don't...and 95% of you don't...then be nice and do what the FS says for now. We can fight this over time...not in one weekend...even though a short rope and big branch might seem like justice at this point.

[Jeepndel]

I'm hitting my 44th year of wheeling and motorsports.....I will NEVER give it up (until I can't get around to drive). :)
But I sure have learned some things you guys might find interesting.

1. If we were not there (on the Rubicon, going to a few meetings, having folks like the Rubicon Trail Foundation crew on our side), we would not have a trail.
2. If our effort gains ONE new recruit, or converts ONE bad guy, then we've done our job for our kids and grandkids.
3. It only takes action -- making something happen. Do it at the local level, on the trail, one day, one dude....giving him a change of heart.....action....it can make the difference.
4. ALWAYS enjoy your ride, no matter now much the other stuff gets in the way...enjoy the ride because THAT is why we are out there in the first place.
Del

[jeeperrick]

After spending the past weekend up at Loon lake and the Con, our group talked with a couple of Forest Service people, they mentioned that as long as your vehicle is within reasonable distance ( one car length) from the road there shouldn't be any problems. The closures were mainly due to the number of ATV's and Moto-X bikes that have been found running rampid up there. As for trailer parking the spill way is still open, if there is no room there it is fine to park at Loon Lake Chalet RV parking and drive Red & Green Sticker vehicles to the trail head without fines. Same goes for parking at Airport flats and driving to the Wentworth springs entrance.

[scotte]

As for trailer parking the spill way is still open, if there is no room there it is fine to park at Loon Lake Chalet RV parking
Just to be clear, if you park your trailer+tow rig around the Chalet you will probably get a ticket as trailer parking is not allowed there - make sure you park in the area jeeperrick is referring to - the BIG gravel area to the right as you go into the Chalet parking lot.

[Jeepndel]

Stay away from the Chalet, my friends. The USFS wants that for their rental cross county skiers and other visitors (non wheelers for the most part). No trailer parking for sure. Tickets will be given from what I am told.

The bottom line is that the USFS has provided us NO parking for the rubicon trail. The parking we have along the road, and at the bottom of the spillway is EL DORADO COUNTY property. The feds have done NOTHING to provide parking....or for that matter, signs, access routes, bathrooms, etc.

Del

[jeeperrick]

I really wish the Forest Service would get their info straight, I guess that parking @ the Chalet RV lot is not a good idea, contrary to what the Officers told us. Thanks for the heads up Del.

[FLASHLIGHTMAN]

Just to be clear, if you park your trailer+tow rig around the Chalet you will probably get a ticket as trailer parking is not allowed there - make sure you park in the area jeeperrick is referring to - the BIG gravel area to the right as you go into the Chalet parking lot.


yes, even if YOU rent out the Chalet and park YOUR trailer in chalet pavement parking area, expect to find a ticket on your windsheld when you return.
we we told this by the rangers a few weeks ago when we rented out the Chalet and a few buds parked their trailers there.

It's OK to leave trailer in the adjacent unpaved parking lot next tot he chalet.

[FLASHLIGHTMAN]

Getting a trail added to the inventory is as simple as going to their offices (or one of the outrach meetings) and adding it to their maps... they are obliged to do a ground GPS survey later.

Randii


heres a pretty decent link to maps showing trails and service roads up there,
go to the bottom and click on the 1/4 quad index map
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route/inventory-maps/index.shtml



It looks like they have Loon lake listed as Pleasant lake on the wentworth SE 1/4

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/documents/route/maps/enf_se_wentworthsprings.pdf

[welndmn]

So the only parking is now on the side of the road?

[scotte]

yes, even if YOU rent out the Chalet and park YOUR trailer in chalet pavement parking area, expect to find a ticket on your windsheld when you return.
we we told this by the rangers a few weeks ago when we rented out the Chalet and a few buds parked their trailers there.

It's OK to leave trailer in the adjacent unpaved parking lot next tot he chalet.
And note that YES the sheriff does park their tow rig and quad trailer on the pavement around the Chalet where the rest of us cannot. Personally I think they should set the example and part up in the gravel too, but that's just my opinion...

[randii]

Thanks for the link, Brian! :cool2:

It looks like they have Loon lake listed as Pleasant lake on the wentworth SE 1/4
Some of the old-timers can probably provide more info, but IIRC there were three or four lakes originally, and the lake has been redammed twice over the years. Pleasant Lake became the eastern-most 'leg' of Loon Lake.

Randii

[cruzila]

Bigsby, Marys, Quail and Pleasant

[NOTPRETTY]

A good public protest against the FS would be to reserve the chalet every weekend this year...but do it all by wheelers. Nothing personal to snow cat guys. I have no issue with them at all. But it would piss of the FS and that seems fine with me right now.

[randii]

Apologies for quoting out of context... but I agree with this:
I really wish the Forest Service would get their info straight
The FS said in the Rubicon Oversight Committee last week that they were not yet enforcing the Forest Order that has yet to be finalized... but that doesn't mesh with the reports we hear from users on the ground. :(

Randii

[peesalot]

In regards to the non pay campsites off to the right as you approach loon dam , they were open and no one said anything about vehicles driving down there . We did notice one asshat that actually drove his buggy in the lake and on the marshy area where there is clear signs to stay off.

[NOTPRETTY]

In the lake...Great...maybe we don't deserve access.

TAKE PICTURES OF THESE THINGS AS THEY HAPPEN!!!

[Todd W]

In the lake...Great...maybe we don't deserve access.

TAKE PICTURES OF THESE THINGS AS THEY HAPPEN!!!

And don't post them on the internet submit to forest service/law enforcement.