Another welding question for us dummies

[sandman]

I've been using my 220V mig for awhile now, which has been working great for a newbie, and I just read it's good for 22gauge to 5/32." The thing practically burns through 1/4" so how do they come up with these ratings? For our safety? Also, if you have a welder that's rated, say for 1/4," what do you do when you want to weld 1/4" plate onto 1/2" plate. Are you not supposed to do this? A question that's been bothering me, so I had to ask.

[Aces'n'8s]

I've been using my 220V mig for awhile now, which has been working great for a newbie, and I just read it's good for 22gauge to 5/32." The thing practically burns through 1/4" so how do they come up with these ratings? For our safety? Also, if you have a welder that's rated, say for 1/4," what do you do when you want to weld 1/4" plate onto 1/2" plate. Are you not supposed to do this? A question that's been bothering me, so I had to ask.

Have you checked your heat setting/voltage/amperage??? 1/4" stuff is pretty thick to be just burning through it.

If you want to weld thinner material, you might want use a lower heat setting, slower line speed, and thinner diameter wire like .023-.024" etc.

I am sure one of the professional welders will provide more detailon this

[D60]

I gotta agree it sounds a bit suspect that you're burning thru 1/4" plate. I'd say you must be going much too slow *or something*

As for welding 1/4" plate to 1/2" plate with a welder that is rated for no more than .250", I'd bevel the 1/2" plate if possible. If not possible, then pre-heat the 1/2" and/or do multiple passes.

[sandman]

Ok, I exaggerated a bit, but when I check the end of the 1/4" plate it's penetrated well over 50% of it. So that makes me think I could burn through what the welder is rated for. I guess it does make sense you're going to burn through when you get to the edge of the metal. I'm starting to worry about the thicker stuff I welded, such as my D-ring hangers on my bumper. They were 3/4", but I did bevel them quite a bit. The bumper itself is a little heavier than 1/4". I'll test it on a tree before I go pulling other vehicles around. The welds looked like they penetrated fine, not much build up, but I'm definitely no expert.

[jerseyzuks]

Much thinner wire, much lower heat

[BlackSkies7]

They were 3/4", but I did bevel them quite a bit. The bumper itself is a little heavier than 1/4". I'll test it on a tree before I go pulling other vehicles around. The welds looked like they penetrated fine, not much build up, but I'm definitely no expert.

If your worried, it may be a good idea to step back and possibly do it over.
A little bigger then 1/4", so 3/8" or so.. different animal.

I personally like to ARC weld the thicker metals, especially something like 3/4", but thats just personnal preference.

[PAToyota]

I'd agree with BlackSkies. Back up, take some scraps and spend some time welding them together, putting them in a vice, and breaking them back apart. Make sure that you are getting full penetration before you're welding things like D-rings. It may seem like a simple task, but if you yank on something and it breaks off and flies through someone's head -- then you have other problems...

[JeepAddict]

I only wish I had a mig, but I've done a lot on them to get familiar enough to make a good descision when I actually break down and get one. Many of these welders are rated at around 1/4 inch, but that's the thickness they will weld in a single pass. You could weld thicker material in multiple passes. If you're burning well down into 1/4 inch, then it seems that's about right. You should be melting well into the parent metals. If I don't like a weld, I'll cut it out and start over. I've learned quite a bit about weld quality by doing this too. Since I have an AC only stick welder, they don't always look as pretty as a MIG, but they are usually stronger than I thought. As above, weld some scrap then cut it apart, pound on it with a sledge hammer etc. and see how strong they really are!

[sandman]

I guess I'm just jumping the gun, maybe it's time to upgrade my machine. I took a sledghammer the side of the hanger and it didn't budge. I don't know if this is a good test or not but it seems solid. I understand the safety concerns though. Here's a picture of it but I suppose it's hard to tell if the weld is ok.

[JeepAddict]

I've seen lots of weld critics and they can seldom agree. A 220 MIG should be enough to do about anything on a jeep. Many have done it with less. If you're still concerned, give it the tree test. I'm betting it's stuck on there pretty good. If you try hard enough you can break anything!

[rusted]

I guess I'm just jumping the gun, maybe it's time to upgrade my machine. I took a sledghammer the side of the hanger and it didn't budge. I don't know if this is a good test or not but it seems solid. I understand the safety concerns though. Here's a picture of it but I suppose it's hard to tell if the weld is ok.

Well if you hit it *really* hard with a sledgehammer then it seems like it would be ok. That's a serious shock load, I assume in shear. If you then load it in use (tension) it's probably going to hold up.

As for welding two thicknesses, If you weld 1/2 to 1/4, you set the welder to weld 1/2 and then direct your arc mostly to that metal. Of course it would burn through the 1/4, so you don't want all the heat on that, but you want the full penetration on the 1/2. So if it was a lap joint instead of pointing it at a 45 to the root of the joint you would split the difference *towards* the 1/2 and adjust accordingly.

Of course if you have a 220v that is only rated for 1/4, you should have bevelled the 1/2 anyway. Then you can do multiple passes and if you follow your rules for laying passes you should get full penetration on the 1/2 because you will be laying more beads in that direction.

My welder will do 1/2 but I haven't run it that hard yet.

Also, I AM A NOVICE WELDER so my advice means nothing. I have just started farting around with two different thickness materials. 1/8 to 1/4.

[PAToyota]

What welder do you have. Miller makes the Millermatic 175 up to the 350 for 220V. Obviously, the 175 is going to be a different animal than the 350.

[sandman]

The thing was given to me and I believe it came from the infamous Harbor Freight Company. Only thing is, this one was made in Italy :confused: I thought all Harbor Freight stuff was made in China. I have to say it's worked pretty good so far, for a beginner anyway.

[chumly2071]

The thing was given to me and I believe it came from the infamous Harbor Freight Company. Only thing is, this one was made in Italy :confused: I thought all Harbor Freight stuff was made in China. I have to say it's worked pretty good so far, for a beginner anyway.

If it is made in Italy, it may be a unit made by cebora... Daytona mig badged units are (at least were) also rebadged ceboras, so if you ever need parts or consumables, you might try them... daytona mig (http://www.daytonamig.com)

[sandman]

I'll look them up. I've been using Lincoln tips.

[Goat]

The material thickness rating is marketing bullshit that is used to sell welders. Any competent welder doesn't pay attention to the specs and evaluates the machine for them selves.

[sandman]

I just assumed they rate them low for liability concerns. When you guys are talking about multiple passes, do you blend a couple together and then make another bead on top of that. Do you need a bead on the top of two passes? Or am I way off here?

[Goat]

I just assumed they rate them low for liability concerns.

What liability concerns? The person that performs the welding is liable for it...

False advertising? That is a stretch even for a real sleazebag, since most processes are spec by amperage and they provide that...


My welding supplier is also a good friend of mine and his biz is doing awesome because he focuses more on the hobbyist/artist/enthusiats market. We often had disscusions about the future of the welding industry and he often said that he believes the future of most manual welding is going to be in the hobbyist garage.

Well you know what...once American Chopper came out he became a very very rich man...built himself a new facility and expanded the buisness greatly. Seems like he was right...everytime a new one of those shows comes out, he just smiles and watches his sales double.

So my point is that only the newb runs down to the supplier and says "I want a welder that welds 1/4". The competent welder tests out the machine and determines what it is capable of.

Here is a case...take any of the smaller Miller machines and try out the settings on the little door chart. You'll notice that most of them are on the cold side. Just an example of...somethings you shouldn't just take on faith.

[4Runnerdude]

I am no welding expert, welds look ok to me. I have seen it where people want to penetrate so much that they overheat the metal they are welding. If you went ahead and welded that thing anymore, your welds would never break but the metal could possibly just sheer off around that area due to the HAZ(heat affected zone) effect. Just something I remember from a welding class a while back, like I said I am no expert plus I don't know how thick or strong the metal used to make the bumper is.

[redrangie]

Here is a case...take any of the smaller Miller machines and try out the settings on the little door chart. You'll notice that most of them are on the cold side. Just an example of...somethings you shouldn't just take on faith.

Goat, I find the opposite on the lincoln specs. I find that they are rather conservative. I use a 175 for most of my stuff, and find the settings seem to be for "no prep" fillets and laps.

just my worthless .02

[BlackSkies7]

Sandman-

Is that tab butt welded to the face of your bumper or does it pass through to the backside or possibly plated to the frame?
Reguardless of anyones welding ability I am not a strong advocate of butt welds. I had an argument with my friend about this when I was welding up my radius arms a few weeks ago. Yes welds show significant strength when placed in a tensile pull, however the material they are welded to may not. It is plausible to believe the bumper may start to deform over time thus weakening its design.
If you want to be totally confident with your design (it sounds like you do want to), if your tabs are not somehow linked to the frame directly, I would start over and go that route. If they are linked to the frame then I dont think you have much to worry about.

[rusted]

Sandman-

Is that tab butt welded to the face of your bumper or does it pass through to the backside or possibly plated to the frame?
Reguardless of anyones welding ability I am not a strong advocate of butt welds. I had an argument with my friend about this when I was welding up my radius arms a few weeks ago. Yes welds show significant strength when placed in a tensile pull, however the material they are welded to may not. It is plausible to believe the bumper may start to deform over time thus weakening its design.
If you want to be totally confident with your design (it sounds like you do want to), if your tabs are not somehow linked to the frame directly, I would start over and go that route. If they are linked to the frame then I dont think you have much to worry about.

A lot of people run their tabs through the bumper and weld it on both sides of the box tube or if it's a channel bumper then provide another gusset or brace from the back of the channel.

[BlackSkies7]

A lot of people run their tabs through the bumper and weld it on both sides of the box tube or if it's a channel bumper then provide another gusset or brace from the back of the channel.

I agree, and thats what I was getting at. Either way it safer then a butt weld to the face of the bumper.
Although I still like tabs that root to the frame.

[sandman]

Sandman-

Is that tab butt welded to the face of your bumper or does it pass through to the backside or possibly plated to the frame?
Reguardless of anyones welding ability I am not a strong advocate of butt welds. I had an argument with my friend about this when I was welding up my radius arms a few weeks ago. Yes welds show significant strength when placed in a tensile pull, however the material they are welded to may not. It is plausible to believe the bumper may start to deform over time thus weakening its design.
If you want to be totally confident with your design (it sounds like you do want to), if your tabs are not somehow linked to the frame directly, I would start over and go that route. If they are linked to the frame then I dont think you have much to worry about.

It is only butt welded to the bumper. You do have an interesting point and I think I will grind them off and start over. Thanks for the advice. Practice, practice, practice....

[Tim84K10]

Mine are butt welded to the bumper. I didn't do the welding, and I wouldn't have done it that way (had the bumper fabbed, big mistake) but they haven't broken and I'm not worried about them failing. Worst case scenario, cut them off, push them through, and weld them front and rear and you should be good.