We've been sucker punched.......

[Rubicrawler]

by the USFS and I (and I'm sure most of you) don't like taking one in the gut without fighting back! Being nice and "working" with them doesn't seem to make a difference. They'll play us as long as we'll let them :mad3: Our club has made a consious effort to stay off the Rubicon this year in an attempt to keep usage down in this critical season as we were asked last spring. Right now, I wish we hadn't:( What can we do to fight this?

Rant over. This just makes me sick :barf:

[Rollie]

Mark I hate to say it but I've given up. I will still do my part on the trail as usual but this burocratic bull$$$$ has gone nowhere.
On my way out from the trail I passed 3 different USFS trucks going the other way on ice house rd. I stuck my arm out and waved at them as usual. Everyone of them gave me a dirty look. I don't get it and don't care anymore. I can't imagine the frustration Dell goes through. One step forward and they kick you back 3. :barf:

[tacomamike]

by the USFS and I (and I'm sure most of you) don't like taking one in the gut without fighting back! Being nice and "working" with them doesn't seem to make a difference. They'll play us as long as we'll let them :mad3: Our club has made a consious effort to stay off the Rubicon this year in an attempt to keep usage down in this critical season as we were asked last spring. Right now, I wish we hadn't:( What can we do to fight this?

Rant over. This just makes me sick :barf:

Are you talking about the Spider Lake closure or the Eldorado National Forest starting a "closed unless posted open" rule? I'm sure you know that one was brought about by a lawsuit by Center for Sierra Nevada Conservation, Center for Biological Diversity and California Wilderness Coalition.

Maybe we need to raise a bunch of money, hire some slick lawyers, and sue the Forest Service on behalf of OHV users. Just have to come up with the right angle. Maybe the closures could be considered descriminating against handicapped people or something. I dunno. But if enough money were dumped into the pockets of enough lawyers I'm sure they could weasel up some kinda plan.

It really sucks that things have come to this, but litigation is how the greenie groups seem to get things done.

Later,
....Mike
http://www.toy4x4.net/

[tacomamike]

Mark I hate to say it but I've given up. I will still do my part on the trail as usual but this burocratic bull$$$$ has gone nowhere.
On my way out from the trail I passed 3 different USFS trucks going the other way on ice house rd. I stuck my arm out and waved at them as usual. Everyone of them gave me a dirty look. I don't get it and don't care anymore. I can't imagine the frustration Dell goes through. One step forward and they kick you back 3. :barf:

Funny you mention that. We were airing up some rigs at a trailhead on highway 88 a couple weeks ago. A hottie in a USFS truck drove past us slowly, and being the friendly people we are we all waved and smiled. All she did was give us a look like she wished we were all dead!

Later,
....Mike
http://www.toy4x4.net/

[Crash440]

[QUOTE=tacomamike]

It really sucks that things have come to this, but litigation is how the greenie groups seem to get things done.
QUOTE]

That is the sad truth :(

The NRA is a good example too.

[GoingOffRoading]

by the USFS and I (and I'm sure most of you) don't like taking one in the gut without fighting back! Being nice and "working" with them doesn't seem to make a difference. They'll play us as long as we'll let them :mad3: Our club has made a consious effort to stay off the Rubicon this year in an attempt to keep usage down in this critical season as we were asked last spring. Right now, I wish we hadn't:( What can we do to fight this?

Rant over. This just makes me sick :barf:


Wait so what happened?

Are you talking about the Spider Lake closure or the Eldorado National Forest starting a "closed unless posted open" rule? I

x2

[BrettM]

I miss Nevada.

I was out near the BlackRock Desert with a big group over Memorial Day weekend and a hottie BLM lady came by (driving a truck, glock on the hip, tattoo on the back of the neck, etc :smokin: ); she BSed with our group of about 20 guys for 20-30 minutes and was very cool, even told us some cool stuff to go see. You could tell she was happy to see people out enjoying the land she was a part of managing.

[Jeepndel]

The Spider Lake closure hit the Sacramento Bee today, Monday, August 1st, Metro Section, B-1,2.
Many of my jabs did not make the article, but some did.
We got some comments like:
*off road users blame poor management for a decision banning vehicles from(spider lake)...*
*shame on the USFS, they haven't done enough to manage (the area)...*
and my favorite:
*The volunteers have done all the work. I'm sick of it. The Friends of the Rubicon are tired of it, says Del Albright*

A similar piece should be coming out in the Mountain Democrat any time.

If you want to get something to your local paper, drop me a note and I'll set you up with quotes and facts.
Del

[teapot]

Burocratic BS is whats printed in papers these days if the money is there they'll print it. Right or wrong the news only says what the highest bidder(donation of course) gives them. Printing only partial sentences is also wrong and misleading. My nieghbor is a Liberal tree huggin frickin hippie.Alway giving me looks and telling me i'm waisting oil and gas. He comes out of the house with a smile when i'm wrenching reminding me that I won't be going anywhere in my rig well, his pot smoking, acid trips, extacy loving days are over. Aug 9 1995 was a beautifull day. I'm ticked off :mad3: Sorry, I'm just venting about my nieghbor. How can we resolve this issue? What's it going to take to keep Spider and the Rubicon open?

[G.C. Bandit]

Well i have only had one good experience with the forest service. We were on the rubicon a couple of weeks ago, and one came into r camp around 10:00am sat morn. We were all kinda sitting there wondering what the hell he could possible say that we were doing wrong, but instead he asked what the rectanglular shaped tent was. So we told him in was for r shitter. Kinda shocked him comming from some 21-24yr olds. But after that he was super cool. Talked to him for about a 1hr or so and off he went. But like i said he is probably the nicest one i have ever met. I usuallly try to wave and be friendly, since r trail is in their hands, and all i usually get is the dirty looks :mad3:

[Lil Uzi]

I have said this before, but I admit I am as hypocritical as the next guy or worse. What I said was we have thousands of people that can drop THOUSANDS into their rig, but they wont give JACK to protect their trails. ( Mrs reminds me I have dropped over $7K on my POS) The lawyers work. Believe it. We abhore it it. Using the legal system reeks of everthing we stand against. Freedom and responsibility. But it will work. Rolle, I know you are totally frustrated, but you cant bail. Where is our Redneck Johnny Cochran ? Half my work at Caltrans to maintain public roads that are used by MILLIONS is delayed and FFF'd with by these environmental groups. When the general, stuck in traffic jam, french fry eating, Starbuck swilling soccer mom public gets this rubbed in their face like Puppy that pooed on the rug, there will be hell to pay. The USFS station was literally NEXT to the entrance to Bassi, yet they claim they were "surprised" at the condition of the road. uh, whats up Willis ? :mad3: ( I last threw in $$ to BRC over a year a ago, and I am due :shaking: ) (Edited: Fixed that :) )

[welndmn]

by the USFS and I (and I'm sure most of you) don't like taking one in the gut without fighting back! Being nice and "working" with them doesn't seem to make a difference. They'll play us as long as we'll let them :mad3: Our club has made a consious effort to stay off the Rubicon this year in an attempt to keep usage down in this critical season as we were asked last spring. Right now, I wish we hadn't:( What can we do to fight this?

Rant over. This just makes me sick :barf:
Yes, after the last item, I decided I am going to be up there as often as I can, thinking this may be my last year..........

[jeeperrick]

I have said this before, but I admit I am as hypocritical as the next guy or worse. What I said was we have thousands of people that can drop THOUSANDS into their rig, but they wont give JACK to protect their trails.)
We just had a similar conversation around the campfire this past weekend. There is more money spent by the OHV crowd, be it 4x4's, ATV's or moto-X's, every year to improve our toys,then any other non professional motor sport. As a whole our ranks probably far out number those of the enviro groups, yet in this day and age we still can't seem to get our collective butts together and pony up the funds in order to put a stop to what is happening right in front of our eyes.
Everytime I go wheeling now and I meet someone on the trail that doesn't belong to a club or organization, I try to shed some light on the importance of clubs and organizations, great means of educating, as well as becoming a voice. We are all here, I hope for the same reasons, to enjoy our sport with friends and family, without the bureaucracy.
Just my $.02

[Jeepndel]

I ( I last threw in $$ to BRC over a year a ago, and I am due :shaking: ) (Edited: Fixed that :) )

Great, Lil Uzi, and thank you. It's BRC that keeps me going financially. They are working hard to keep our trails open, around the country. Cal4 and others are too, but fortunately, BRC is now big enough where they can help guys like me with some expense money to keep in the game. If it were not for them, I'd not be working this hard on the Rubicon Trail. I couldn't.

So if you can drop them a donation, mention the Rubicon, or my name in the memo field, you'd make some great points with me. :)
Truthfully, it never hurts for the book keeper to see the Rubicon Trail bringing in some donations.

Thanks, Del

[Jeepndel]

Everytime I go wheeling now and I meet someone on the trail that doesn't belong to a club or organization, I try to shed some light on the importance of clubs and organizations, great means of educating, as well as becoming a voice.

Well, I sure couldn't agree with you more. JOIN. Join everything you can afford or that even comes close to doing something to support our trails and our sport. NO ONE ELSE is saving your sport. NOT businesses....I can tell you that. Certainly NOT Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Jeep or any of the industry big boys. THEY DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO OUR TRAILS and big organizations that much.

The snowmobile and motorcycle businesses, on the other hand, DO SUPPORT land use, access and big organizations like the BRC. Hmmmm, makes you wonder, huh?

WE must do it ourselves. We must join -- become members. To put it simply, it's memberships ($20 a year for BRC) that keeps guys like me in the game and trails like ours open.
See about joining BRC here: http://www.sharetrails.org
if you're in CA, see about joining cal4wheel here: http://www.cal4wheel.com

Del

[cruzila]

If you want to help with money we have a venue set up already. It is the Rubicon Trail Foundation and you can follow the links in my sig to get there.

We will be using the money exclusively for the Rubicon to maintain public access and to continue education of trail users.

Scott

[Rubicrawler]

Mark I hate to say it but I've given up.

Ron, I know just how you feel, but we can't give up! We have too much invested to let them win. It's obvious we need to go at it from another direction but I just don't know how to go about it.

[NOTPRETTY]

Yes, after the last item, I decided I am going to be up there as often as I can, thinking this may be my last year..........

It is sad to say, but I am hearing this more and more..."Get in while you can...." :(

[Rubicrawler]

It is sad to say, but I am hearing this more and more..."Get in while you can...." :(

I'm hearing it too but we can't accept it and give up (not that you are). Once we loose it, we'll never get it back so I''m going to do everything within my power to stop the madness :mad3:

[Bonecruncher]

WE must do it ourselves. We must join -- become members. To put it simply, it's memberships ($20 a year for BRC) that keeps guys like me in the game and trails like ours open.

Sorry I haven't joined until now. Money sent.
Thanks Del for working so hard for us.

[Jeepndel]

Sorry I haven't joined until now. Money sent.
Thanks Del for working so hard for us.

Thanks Curt, this is really what it takes. If everyone on the pirate board were to join BRC and whatever else they felt important, our fight for access would take LEAPS and BOUNDS ahead.

I read one report that said there are at least 36 million Americans with toys (jeeps, quads, 4Wd's, bikes, etc.). And if you add up all the organizations we have across the country, we don't have ONE million members. Not even close.

Just think if we all joined stuff so we had more membership money to do business with.....wow.
anyway, thanks for doing your part. I appreciate it.
Del

[Brandon]

Bring back Ranger Dan (Wait, I think that was his name, the dude that could cruise the trail end to end in record time on his bike)

[Rubicrawler]

Bring back Ranger Dan (Wait, I think that was his name, the dude that could cruise the trail end to end in record time on his bike)

Now you're talkin'! You got it right, Dan was his name and he was a great asset to the trail back in the day;)

[randii]

The Spider Lake closure reinstatement sucks but is old news -- the worse news on the horizon will be the USFS's response to the judge's ruling on the ENF lawsuit, which will likely close 800 miles of established trail and leave open only 2200 miles of system roads and trails.

Are you talking about the Spider Lake closure or the Eldorado National Forest starting a "closed unless posted open" rule?
I don't mean to split hairs -- the rule sucks, to be sure -- but the planned ENF action is not closed-unless-posted-open. Their intent is to mark as well as possible, but to enforce according to THEIR system roads and trails map. IIRC, there's good legal precedent that they can't close unless posted open....

We need to hound them to publish that system map, and continue to work the inventory to make sure all existing roads and trails are recorded, then work to get them added from the inventory to the system roads and trails map. We should also push to have a procedure set in place for further trail development (unlikely).

Maybe we need to raise a bunch of money, hire some slick lawyers, and sue the Forest Service on behalf of OHV users.
I support this now, and when the time comes, will put some bucks behind supporting it in court. That said, it is a parallel action, one that needs to occur in tandem with FOTR's continue efforts to engage ROC issues on the ground... in other words, we can't JUST do lawsuits, we need to keep working the issues as best we can in the meantime.

Lawsuits are just another layer, and though I don't think the USFS is working well with us, I haven't given up working with them, and will continue to try to do so.

Bring back Ranger Dan!
FWIW, Eldorado National Forest has a new OHV Ranger who will be focusing on OHVs in ENF. That's a step in the right direction...

Randii

[FLASHLIGHTMAN]

are we pissed off enought to protest the focking BS yet??

might be too short of notice but sure would be a nice date to protest on a NATIONAL level...

http://www.npld.com/


couldn't think of a beter day than this to throw it back in their face.........
Although a weekday may work better than a weekend... stay tuned

[FLASHLIGHTMAN]

sure would be nice if we could get some boy scouts and girl scouts to protest this thing.
That would make for good news... some kids crying cause they're locked out of their favorie hunting/camping/hiking sites