i am going to be buying a rig soon, and i was wondering if i could get some trained oppinions. obviously, one of the cheapest would be a sammi, but i need something stronger becasue i plan on doing highway traveling throughout new england. so then i thought a yj. i could do soa and buy some used 33's or something and keep open diffs for the d30s. but then i was told that insurance on a 17 y/o with a wrangler could be ugly. so then i thought an xj. they are cheep and everywhere... but i like the thought of a yj better. so tell me what you are thinking, and could a sammi be worthy of highway traveling and daily driver around town with the 1.3 and some lower gears? its deffanatly my favorate 4x4

Sammi's are not great for long highway drives in my opinion. Cheap and Samurai seems to have parted ways too, at least in Oregon. I have seen stock ones going for $3000, they couldn't have been much more then that new. You can usually find XJ's pretty cheap, if you get an XJ avoid the ones with the 2.8 liter V-6 like the plague.

Samurais are great wheelers, but pavement time can be excruciating in one.

Would a pickup suit you?
I'd probably look at the early-mid '90s Ford Ranger pickups. They can be had for $2000 or a bit less if you look around some. The drivetrains with the 4.0L engines will support 35" tires no problem, most lockers are available, and gears as deep as 5.13 can be had for it. Don't go any earlier than 1990s with a MFG date 11/'89 though, those kindof suck (weak axles & transmissions).

If ins. on the XJ is cheap, it'd be one to consider too, yes.

1st Generation 4 runner.

CHEROKEE cheap to build cheap to fix easy to maintain great performance for little cash

I'm pretty sure that wranglers are one of the cheaper vehicles to insure. I'd look into it if i were you, and not just go off of heresay (even if my comment is pretty much heresay). YJ's are not too great on teh freeway though, even with the 4.0.

I'm pretty sure that wranglers are one of the cheaper vehicles to insure. I'd look into it if i were you, and not just go off of heresay (even if my comment is pretty much heresay). YJ's are not too great on teh freeway though, even with the 4.0.

on the insurance end most wranglers are a 4 or 5 and a cherokee is a 3, much cheaper to insure

on the insurance end most wranglers are a 4 or 5 and a cherokee is a 3, much cheaper to insure

The XJ is a better daily driver as well, and the stock wheel base is better in most situations, that extra bit helps quite a bit with stability. With what your saying, i wouldn't worry about the unibody too much either.

First, sammis are fawkin great period. Highway driving does suck regardless of how much power they have, there is just no leg room and they will vibrate the fillings out of your teeth

Second, XJ, dirt cheap, stout drivetrain (if had with a Chrysler 8.25" rear), budget boost, sawzall fenders, 31/32s, locked, period. Invest in skidplates :flipoff2:

Third, TJ: same as above buy you can fit much larger tires on them

Dont buy a YJ unless you plan on tearing most of it out. Have never built one but they are only good for the motor, maybe the trans, and the body/frame. The axles suck. Yeah, you can do one piece shafts in front but you can also band aid an amputated limb. The rearend is useless. They ride like shit (that is why you buy a sammi, they still ride like shit but you dont have to swap out the entire driveline)

First, sammis are fawkin great period. Highway driving does suck regardless of how much power they have, there is just no leg room and they will vibrate the fillings out of your teeth

Second, XJ, dirt cheap, stout drivetrain (if had with a Chrysler 8.25" rear), budget boost, sawzall fenders, 31/32s, locked, period. Invest in skidplates :flipoff2:

Third, TJ: same as above buy you can fit much larger tires on them

Dont buy a YJ unless you plan on tearing most of it out. Have never built one but they are only good for the motor, maybe the trans, and the body/frame. The axles suck. Yeah, you can do one piece shafts in front but you can also band aid an amputated limb. The rearend is useless. They ride like shit (that is why you buy a sammi, they still ride like shit but you dont have to swap out the entire driveline)

I hate to tell you most tj's interchange most parts with both xj's and yj's

most Tj's come with the same d35 as the yj's

ok so im gonna rule out the sammi, unfortunalty. i think ill buy one when i get older and use it as a toy. ok so more about the yj and xj/mj. ill get an mj if i can get my hands on it. what are the popular issues with them? something that sucks that should be swaped out, or complications when lifting? i know the d30s and d35s arent any stronger than round butter sticks, so im planning on keeping open diffs and 33s with just enough lift to tuck them in. will i have to trim any? will the 30/35 handle open diffs and 33s? thanks for the info, im soaking it in

the 80's fullsize bronco's can be had for pretty damn cheap, and even cheap if you buy a modded one :cool2:

ok so im gonna rule out the sammi, unfortunalty. i think ill buy one when i get older and use it as a toy. ok so more about the yj and xj/mj. ill get an mj if i can get my hands on it. what are the popular issues with them? something that sucks that should be swaped out, or complications when lifting? i know the d30s and d35s arent any stronger than round butter sticks, so im planning on keeping open diffs and 33s with just enough lift to tuck them in. will i have to trim any? will the 30/35 handle open diffs and 33s? thanks for the info, im soaking it in on street yes off road Id say 32's max. amount of lift about 4.5" for 33's 3" for 32's and trimming will be required on the xj/mj

I am speaking from an insurance agent's perpective, so call your insurance company/agent and ask them to do a "what if" on the jeeps that you are looking at. That will help you in deciding what kind to go for or if your insurance company will even insure that vehicle with a 17 y/o. But also ENJOY YOUR JEEP!!! :D

you can find 1st gen 4runners for pretty cheap i just bought an'89 for $1000 & it is still in great shape.

Late 80's early 90's toyota pickups and runners, cheap, reliable, can wheel the piss out of 'em. With an 1" of bl you can run 33's and the 4 cyl. driveline is incredibly stout. Not the fastest things in the world, but adequate for highway driving, if your over 5' 10" a trip of more than two hours will kill your legs.

Late 80's early 90's toyota pickups and runners, cheap, reliable, can wheel the piss out of 'em. With an 1" of bl you can run 33's and the 4 cyl. driveline is incredibly stout. Not the fastest things in the world, but adequate for highway driving, if your over 5' 10" a trip of more than two hours will kill your legs.

I'm 6'4"...get the Runner or Xtra-cab.

ok so im gonna rule out the sammi, unfortunalty. i think ill buy one when i get older and use it as a toy. ok so more about the yj and xj/mj. ill get an mj if i can get my hands on it. what are the popular issues with them? something that sucks that should be swaped out, or complications when lifting? i know the d30s and d35s arent any stronger than round butter sticks, so im planning on keeping open diffs and 33s with just enough lift to tuck them in. will i have to trim any? will the 30/35 handle open diffs and 33s? thanks for the info, im soaking it in

If you're planning on 33's then you don't need to worry about the Jeep axles breaking. Once you lock them, I'd worry about the rear D35. XJ's come with a high pinion d30 front and is argueably as strong as a low pinion d44 in the front.

If I was just planning on running 33's, I would do a super 35 kit for the d35 and alloy shafts in the hpd30 front with 4.56 gears and arb's or detroits. I would have no concern hammering on that setup with a 4.0.

my insurance guy told me once the cheapest thing for me to drive was a pickup, when i asked him what if? about a car for mpg. said suvs, and cars would cost more, cause i have a heavy foot. Just my .02

good to know that the hpd30 is "argueably" as strong as a low pinion 44. thats good news. i dont plan on locking anything any time soon.. and hell... if i did lock anything, i would just weld them.. i dont see how spending money and upgrading anything under a 44 makes sense.. besides, i never know if i will win the lotto or something and just swap in stronger axles anyways. but acctualy i need open diffs cuz im 17 and this will be my dialy driver. i really wouldnt even need the extra performance of a locker anways.
i am juggling between an mj and xj.. i would like the bed for hauling my bike, and i love the look of a comanche. with an xj, i would just tow a light, single bike trailer to my races... and i can bring friends wheeling with me... plus its hard to find a comanche w/o nasty bed rust for my price range. what do u think? xj or mj

xj, cuz a good 'cheap' commanche can't be found

get a toyota 22re pick up or runners their great on gas, cheap to insure and strong. i beat the shit out of my 88 runner and its still runs like a champ

yeah i had an 88 toy pickup. got it for a grand, got ripped. i just sold it for 350. i want solid axels, and i dont want a 2.4.. and i now have decided to get an xj. it will handle 33s with open diffs with a 4.5 lift and my driving style. and i will eventualy drop in a 8 1/4 in the rear and never have to worry about much for a long time, or just find an xj with a d44. thats really all i need. thanks for all of your help

xj, cuz a good 'cheap' commanche can't be found

really I have 3 LOL :flipoff2:

http://fototime.com/%7B2F5F6BCD-EA0F-44E1-81F1-A3AFA2B2552C%7D/picture.JPG
red 2x4 4 cyl 4 speed dana 44

http://fototime.com/%7B7A57302B-BEF3-42D1-96BE-34400C41AC30%7D/picture.JPG
blue 4x4 4.0 6 cyl, ax15, np231, dana 44 rear, dana hp30 front

http://fototime.com/%7BE192CBF3-BDAC-4FCF-8F22-8010EDC043EC%7D/picture.JPG
grey crawler project, 4.0, aw4, Klune V, np231 HD sye and outputs, front HP 44, rear zuzu 44, 3 linnk front 14" coilover front

easy to find! :flipoff2:

omg you suck! i wanted an mj and its impossible to find one in north east in that condition, let along 4.0 manual trans 4x4. i looked all thought the pirate classifieds, and i only found like three manual xjs!!!! WTF. why arent there any manual trans anywhere?? that last mj is sick. i would kill for that.
it seems like u know your x/mj's tho. when i finaly find my 1992 and up (those r the HO years right?) 4.0 manual trans xj, what should i do to it? im planing on just a 4.5 lift with 33s and open diffs. i will get my hands on a d44 or explorer axle (8 1/4 right?) and swap that in when i break the 35. i am hoping that is all i will have to do, and the terain around here... that is all i will need. theres not much i will be doing that could break that set up. whats your take? i know now im getting off subject of what this thread is originaly about. can we make a new thread on this subject or something? im new to this forum and i dont know how it all works yet. help me out if u can. im gonna start a new thread in the newb section on how to build an xj. post and help me out. thanks

really I have 3 LOL :flipoff2:


must be nice having 20% relative humidity and less than 20 inches of rain each year :flipoff2: , but for everyone else...

must be nice having 20% relative humidity and less than 20 inches of rain each year :flipoff2: , but for everyone else...

20% try 5% but we do average about 9' of snow a year

stupidfast This is your thread take it where you wish it to go. I would actually not look for the manual trans unless its before 90 or after 95 the4 rest of the years used a peogot BA5, possible the worst trans ever put into a jeep.

The AW4 4 speed auto is a killer trans though the HO started in 91 but I am a big believer in the ol Renix system of the earlier units. The renix system 4.0 tend to run for around 300,000 miles or so and the HO motors simply dont measure up for durability. The HO actually only has a few more HP anyway. and some 5.0 mustang 19# injectors and turbo city adjustable map sensor you can get the same HP as the H0

Yes the 4.5" and 33's will wokr keep to 10.5 or 9.5 width it will make your life a lot easier

perfect. ok so then now i will look for a pre 90. maybe 87, 88 or 89. good, becasue there seems to be lots of them and easy to find.. i have issues with autos.. i just dont like the idea of autos.. give me my clutch and shift lever.. id rather have that. thanks tho. ur making shit easyer for me. ill stick with the 4.5 lift and 33-10.50. thanks

1st Generation 4 runner.
agreed, EFI 4 banger= killer gas mialage... just make sure you get a 5 speed cause the auto and 4 banger are just plain sluggish

no reason not to throw an aussie locker in the front hpd30. It's about $250 and you won't break it. Even just a locker in the front will make a huge difference offroad and you won't notice it onroad in the front. You WILL notice a spooled or welded front axle onroad on any Jeep without lockout hubs...ie. everything after CJ's.

omg you suck! i wanted an mj and its impossible to find one in north east in that condition, let along 4.0 manual trans 4x4. i looked all thought the pirate classifieds, and i only found like three manual xjs!!!! WTF. why arent there any manual trans anywhere?? that last mj is sick. i would kill for that.
it seems like u know your x/mj's tho. when i finaly find my 1992 and up (those r the HO years right?) 4.0 manual trans xj, what should i do to it? im planing on just a 4.5 lift with 33s and open diffs. i will get my hands on a d44 or explorer axle (8 1/4 right?) and swap that in when i break the 35. i am hoping that is all i will have to do, and the terain around here... that is all i will need. theres not much i will be doing that could break that set up. whats your take? i know now im getting off subject of what this thread is originaly about. can we make a new thread on this subject or something? im new to this forum and i dont know how it all works yet. help me out if u can. im gonna start a new thread in the newb section on how to build an xj. post and help me out. thanks

thats an 8.8, did you try looking at bargainnews yet andrew?

MJ, XJ, comes in at good prices until you want to lift them or have to fix them all the time. (still going to buy one of the 2 this year, mall krawler/tow vehicle for my sami)

But my vote goes to the sami, I have wheeled mine forever and the crap is soooo cheap. way smaller so that opens more trails too! if your worried about the roll over thing....just learn how to drive. Just kidding. I rolled mine and it took me and two or three friends to put it rubber side down.

yeah the only reason why i cant go sammi is because i would need it to tow my bike to the races. it wouldnt fair well enough on the highway.. i dont care about drive quality or anything, but it wouldnt be able to go over 65, and the hills around here on the highway are long, sometimes pretty steep, and it just wouldnt work no matter how low i geared it... which is the ONLY reason i CANT get one. pisses me off tho.

have you considered a isuzu, trooper or rodeo?
do a easy sas on the front and it will be great. i had a moderatly built yj and switched to my 91 trooper.
i like the toys, but not the rust! seems like they come from the factory like that! :shaking:

i think some great wheelers, would be.....
of course with a little work.

trooper,rodeo,yj,xj,LJ,sammi,cruiser,runner,toy etra cab,sidekick/tracker,lada,old EB bronco(pre 76)
etc....

guess it all comes down to how much you want to spend, how much work oyu are willing to do to it. and of course, what type of wheelin will you be doing?

my 2 cents

yeah the only reason why i cant go sammi is because i would need it to tow my bike to the races. it wouldnt fair well enough on the highway.. i dont care about drive quality or anything, but it wouldnt be able to go over 65, and the hills around here on the highway are long, sometimes pretty steep, and it just wouldnt work no matter how low i geared it... which is the ONLY reason i CANT get one. pisses me off tho.1.6 16V from a tracker will fix that. OR if your power crazy there are aton of sami's w/a 4.3 Cheby in them. I'll be pullin my mx bike once I do the 1.6 swap. or just pull it w/ the heep. (xj/mj)

is a 1.6 tracker motor that much better than a 1.3? i would buy a 4.3 sammi in a heartbeat. that would be sick... but youd probly snap the axles with stock tires w/a 4.3.

i vote yota..ive had an 86 runner and currently have a 93 pickup. I love them. Picking up a 85 4runner soon too. Sammy can be had in CT for relatively cheap. I see a few popping up every year. I just recently was going to buy 2 Sammys for $200. One (tin tip) was w/ a 3 inch lift and runs good, and other was a soft top with a blown engine. When I went back to buy it the morning after I saw them, they were gone. I was so pissed. Last year there was one for free like a mile from me. Rusty, but worth free. I didn't know anything about it, but the day after I saw it I went to get it and they had junked it. I have always wanted one..next time I will buy one right when i see it.

Plus one for a toy PU if you like PUs.

Plus one for XJ. Rarely have I seen or heard of one that let someone down. I personally have wheel the piss out of them and they keep on coming. I also was a fleet manager of about 20 that got the piss run out of them. 2k of weight in them between equipment and techs and they got run about 70 hours a week on some of the most knarly stuff that most people will never see. (That is low budget cell site access roads in WV. They great people by shooting 000 buckshot over your head out there.)

MJ are the little jeep pickups that are the brother of the XJ. They have an almost cult following and are hard to find. I have own 6 mostly to keep them from going to waste. If I could fing a desent one for something less than my first born I would scoop it up.

yep, Toy PU if you like trucks. 22RE can't be beat for reliability. go XJ if you would rather have a SUV

is a 1.6 tracker motor that much better than a 1.3? i would buy a 4.3 sammi in a heartbeat. that would be sick... but youd probly snap the axles with stock tires w/a 4.3.yeah the 16v has right around 100hp and the 1.3 has 64hp. I know a guy in baltimore that has a 4.3 in his zuki w/stock axles. Roadlessgear.com has newfield axles & birfs and calmini offers HD rear axle shafts all for Zuk's housings.

Full Size Jeeps from 76 thru 91. They're generally but ugly with wood trim and crap, but the 360/slush box combos are quite decent, the later part time 208 (80 and up) is a solid t-case and they have D44 fronts and either AMC23 rears or D44 rears. Then the usual solid frame, power brakes and steering, york compressors, etc. Oh yea, they're @#$#@ cheap as hell most places.....

yeah j trucks and the older cherokees are sweet. but you cant really pick one up without having to do work on it. i mean, you cant expect to pick anything up w/o putting work into it, but an older vehicle like the fullsized jeeps are not seen often in wheeling worthy condition

yep, Toy PU if you like trucks. 22RE can't be beat for reliability. go XJ if you would rather have a SUV
i dunno about that sure they have lots of aftermarket support but dose the roof come off. 1st gen 4runners have a boxed frame and the same reliable 22re. the pickup and 4runner are identical except for the tub i think. i don't have anything against xj and think either is great.

Nuther vote for the J series trucks :smokin: . They come with D44's, V8's, T18's or burly automatics. Source a J20 and ya really found a cheap beefed wheeler, possibly a 401 in it 44 front D60 rear. Throw on some 33's or 35's and wheel the wee out of it plus they have a comfy bench seat for road trips!


-Picked my 77' short bed J10 up for 800$ with a rebuilt 360, T18, D44's. It was a blast to run it bone stock with 33's.

hey does anybody know about those subaru Brats?? lol i saw one at work one day and they look like a little El Camino, with a manual t/case 4Lo and Hi. just thought it would be interesting to see what ppl think of thoes. heres one i just found on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-SUBARU-BRAT-95-943-original-miles_W0QQitemZ4568288222QQcategoryZ6467QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

MJ, XJ, comes in at good prices until you want to lift them or have to fix them all the time. (still going to buy one of the 2 this year, mall krawler/tow vehicle for my sami)

But my vote goes to the sami, I have wheeled mine forever and the crap is soooo cheap. way smaller so that opens more trails too! if your worried about the roll over thing....just learn how to drive. Just kidding. I rolled mine and it took me and two or three friends to put it rubber side down.

an xj/mj is one of the most reliable rigs around, how many miles on a non rebuilt sami....130,000 if you are lucky!.. 4.0's and aw4s will got 300,000 miles on a regular basis, a well built xj will run class 5 trails and still cruise the highway at 80+ with the A/C on...crap a sammy cant even do 80, If you only had a clue

4800 total including the rig on the xj in my avatar, Stock gearing, stock xfer, dana 44 rear, HP30 front, ran mall trails like lost world, annaconda, axle alley, sledgehammer, jackhammer, etc.......oh yeah I drove the XJ to all the trails and back again......from Arizona

thats the shit right there. a rig that can drive u to the trails at speeds around 80, and wheel the shit outa it when you get there. then, you drive home in it. x/mjs are deffanatly awsome 4x4s. thats why im getting one

just paid 100 dollars for an 85 cherokee

just paid 100 dollars for an 85 cherokee

what engine? tranny?