Ok, let's say you got a waggy 44 to swap under the front of your XJ. Now you are not limited to the stock mounting locations or parts. What would you do?

Leafs - I've already figure what I would use if I go Leafs up front so I don't need much info there.

Stock type link - I'll be running about 8" and really don't want to use the stock setup or drop backets.

Longarm - Alright, I've seen them and they look good, but I wonder since I don't have stock mounting locations, can I locate the mounts better then stock? Why mount the uppers so high on the axle end? Higher = more stress on the mount yes? Why not put the uppers on top of the tube closer to where the lowers mount?

Radius arm - need some pic's of the broncos frame mount end. I like this idea, and I believe I can yank the trackbar this way.

So, what would/could you do?

Actualy the taller mount have more leverage on the axle therefore less stress. And if you start changing the locations on the body, you have to change them together (same amout top and botom) or go to the Y arm design or just go with leafs.

You should do one side a long Y arm and the other side a lower
long arm. If your not understanding what i'm talking about look at
the TJ with coilovers. He post has a post that shows some picures.

i have some friends that have gone front leafs on an xj, lots of lift but not so much flex, keep the coils, build long lower arms, build a custom mount at the t-case member, and "y" the upper arms off the lower.
check out my pics, build up is almost complete and will post more soon.photos.yahoo.com/petehamann
just my .02

I do know Bill (on this board) gets pretty good flex out of his Leafs. I like the leafs for their simplicity and easy maintenance. Locked front and rear and the flex is not as important.

If I do the longarm, it would definitely be the "Y" style. I guess my question on the longarms is since I have no mounts currently (on the axle) why should I put them in the stock location? Where would be the best mounting location on the axle and why? Also I'm wondering how much it matters as to where the upper and lower part of the "Y" come together. I would think the further back the better.
BTW, great work on the belly pan/mount. I wonder why a lot of longarms don't mount inside the frame rails instead of under them.

If your using a 44 front then i think what i would do is make square tube long arms, triangulated to the centre of the (fabbed) t- case mount with a wheel bearing close to the mount, this will give you ultimate flex. on the axle side i would sandwich the arms on the factory leaf pads using the u bolts and leaf plates, this way you leave the axle tubes practically un touched, fab and mount a track bar to support it laterly. find a way to mount the currie t.j. antirock sway bar. mount the coils on top of the arms.
this is how i'm building the rear on my xj with a 44, so it should work in the front as well.

On the front I think there will be clearance problems with the D-shaft and exhaust, no?

Rockkrawler used ths 'torque rod' or something like that on one side only with their longarms. (instead of y-type longarms)

FarmerMat (not sure if he's on this board) took Ford Radius arms and instead of the through the bushing frame mount like broncos have he welded on a johnny joint.

Both seem to be pretty effective setups.

I'd go with coils overs up front to get rid of a bunch of bracketry for the standard coil mount

Bob

You were talking about eliminating the track bar, with leafs you'd have to have it, or you are going to be facing some negative handling on road. 8" lift springs are going to move side to side a fair amount. Food for thought

triangulate a 4 link, with that much lift you won't have to worryabout contact underneath.

xj4rocks - I've seen farmermatts and I like his setup. Would have been easier if I had the ford 44. I'm thinking about something simular, a radius arm, that mounts like his at the frame end, but at the axle end it seperates (simular to "Y" long arm) but mounts to the axle with busings the upper part of "Y" right above the Lower part on the axle tube. What do ya think?

Karl - I would be using stock XJ rear springs up front in an SOA and make the height adjustment with the shackles. Plenty of CJs with this type of setup and no trackbar.

Originally posted by JnJ
I'm thinking about something simular, a radius arm, that mounts like his at the frame end, but at the axle end it seperates (simular to "Y" long arm) but mounts to the axle with busings the upper part of "Y" right above the Lower part on the axle tube. What do ya think?



I'm assuming you mean the upper directly above the lower? I don't see any problem with that. I think the only reason most kits like the RE TJ kit and Clayton's Longarm for the XJ use the factory mounts is just because they're there. But if they're not there on your axle then I probably 'would' put them directly above one another.

Bob

To not run a trackbar on a front axle with leafs is (no offense) stupid. You cause extra play in the steering my allowing the axles to swing freely side to side. Off road this is okay, but on-road, this is a serious accident waiting to happen. :skull: :skull: :skull:

Originally posted by Karl Andraschko
To not run a trackbar on a front axle with leafs is (no offense) stupid. You cause extra play in the steering my allowing the axles to swing freely side to side. Off road this is okay, but on-road, this is a serious accident waiting to happen. :skull: :skull: :skull:

So every CJ to ever hit the street is a hazard and stupid? Not to mention every FSJ out there, most full size 4x4 pick up trucks and about every HD truck made?

In a leaf spring setup the lateral stablility comes from the springs. Buy a clue, then post.:rolleyes:

if I were starting over, and didn't have the mounts for stock arms on the axles, I'd go with either a ford radius arm or a 3 link with an "A" arm,

I've seen one where they did mount the frame end of the radius arm inside the frame rail, and if the guy hadn't been such a hack, it could have looked good, I have seen another long arm, not radius arm that was inside the frame rail, so it is possible, without to much trouble, I mounted mine underneith cause I didn't think I'd get hung up on them enough to warrant the extra trouble of sticking them inside the frame rail, and I haven't.

on the other hand if I were to loose the track bar, I'd do the 3 link with an A arm, and put the A arm on the bottom, this would clear you of the oil pan problem. run the upper links from the axle to the body up high where there are no clearance issues, and the A arm on the bottom where the oil pan and exhaust are issues, I have seen this done, but on a tj and a tube frame / used to be EB

"To not run a trackbar on a front axle with leafs is (no offense) stupid. You cause extra play in the steering my allowing the axles to swing freely side to side. Off road this is okay, but on-road, this is a serious accident waiting to happen. "

Ditto what Dug said, wake up dude, look around you. Very few (YJs being the exception) leaf sprung vehicles have trackbars. Get a little info (knowledge) before you come on here calling people stupid. :flipoff:

Did your moms let you play in the street as kids? If she did I'm suprised you made it this long.

Of course you can get away without a track bar on a stock CJ, the leaf packs are flat with short shackles. In that scenario there is little room for side to side move ment of the axle because the springs would actually have to twist for it to happen.

Once you add a spring over, lift spring and/or lift shackles you've moved the axle further away from the frame (I'll use little words for JnJ and Brent here) which allows for an easier swaying effect and allows the axle to apply more leverage against the springs laterally.

Even with a 2 1/2" lift and a spring over you are going to have slop in the front. While this isn't that big a deal off road, at 55 miles an hour, it is a safety issue. The handling you need to compete with Suba-friggin-ru's is gone.

With a combined 8" of lift, an unresprained steering axle will easily move side to side inches.

Chrysler added the track bar for a reason, if it wasn't needed, they wouldn't have spent money on doin' it you friggin tards!

:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Karl....wrongo
"Of course you can get away without a trackbar on a stock CJ "
"Chrysler added the trackbar for a reason"???????????????????Guess they were planning on us going SOA huh ???puhlease.
A suspension can be built anyway you want it ( by those of us who wheel and wrench ) w/trac bar or without.....leafs ,coils,coilovers,bags even hydraulics.
Chrysler never ran 33's-44's but ......I have and your stupid SOA example is just that.....stupid.I have never had a trac bar yet managed to drive my SOA w/16/38's 100 miles round trip 5 days a week to work....it drove perfect becouse I built it that way.I now own a YJ....may keep trac bar....if I dont it will work correctly,why ?becouse I will build it that way.
print this out and when you are waiting on the short bus in the morning you can reread as many time as you need.

JNJ,

I've recently converted my ZJ to extended radius arms in front and triangulated four link long arm in back. I'm running about 7" lift, no sway bars, and 36" Swampers. The ZJ rides sweet, and wheels like crazy.
Have a look at my sig link. Email me if you have any questions.

Karl, wake up. First off stock CJ springs are not flat. YJ springs are flat, but they came with a trackbar? Do you own a Jeep or are you just a wantabe?
Next, I didn't say anything about lift springs, I said stock cherokee leafs.
Please go out, learn hands on, then come back.

:flipoff2:

LOL, the only hands on he's interested are 'all hands to the pump' !

What a wanker :)

DS

Originally posted by Karl Andraschko


Chrysler added the track bar for a reason, if it wasn't needed, they wouldn't have spent money on doin' ...



THEY didn't spend money on it, YOU did. (consumer) :laughing:

DUDES. Dont need trac bars on leaf sprung vehicles. I have a friend who competes in the ARCA in his 89 XJ with enough height to clear 37SSr's, (recently converted to Boggers) with a leaf sprung front end, no trac bar, AND can plant a tire on a 38" rock while keeping ALL 4 tires in contact with mother Earth.

ANYTHING is possible, with the right planning, trial-N-error, etc.

I have seen many suspentions with the upper links triangulated and the lowers straight, am I correct in assumeing that you could reverse this and triangle the lowers instead ? The reason is that there is no room to triangle the uppers on my MJ, unless I make the upper in a large U shape and then the clearance is still questionable, but the lowers would have plenty of room. Any thoughts ?

Grndhog; I know at least one person in the process of doing just that. I think it'll work great.

About this running the upper "U" link on the front, I was discussing this very similar set-up to a friend of mine about a couple weeks ago, he didn't think that this would work. So I took a few preliminary measurements and come up with the solution that if the frame mounted end were placed right, this WOULD work. I have most everything I need except a tubing bender, (currently in the works) and the tubing notcher. One would definitely have to pre-fab a new crossmember, but hey, that"s a good idea anyway to beef that up while you"re there. What I did was lift the front end onto jackstands to have the axle droop, and made up a "mock-up" tube "U" out of my kids old swingset, (tubing was bent weird but had the general shape) and then I played with it underneath usind a tape-measure and an anglefinder.
This will definitely work for me, and as to the exhaust clearance? I need to rework the exhaust to tuck it up higher anyway.:smokin: :usa: