Wentworth Springs Parking

[randii]

Here's an idea that Dennis and I have discussed... l

Let's take the pressure off of the Loon Lake entrance and park tow rigs more near Gerle Creek. Airport Flat (just north of the creek) offers free group camping and legal parking. Just south of the creek, there is even more dirt parking, as long as we stay close to the trail and leave room for traffic to pass. There's room for 50+ rigs there if people park sanely...

From there, you can take the dirt road northeasterly across the washed out bridge (CAKE for a 4x4) and rejoin the paved road just west of Lawyer's Cow Camp before taking the historic Rubicon Trail as it winds through Wentworth Springs on into Ellis Creek. In doing so, you'll miss the traffic jam at Gatekeeper, and the parking issues at Loon.

Randii

[randii]

From there, you can take the dirt road northeasterly across the washed out bridge (CAKE for a 4x4) and rejoin the paved road just west of Lawyer's Cow Camp before taking the historic Rubicon Trail as it winds through Wentworth Springs on into Ellis Creek. In doing so, you'll miss the traffic jam at Gatekeeper, and the parking issues at Loon.

The USFS has agreed to cast a blind eye on on-road OHV use for:
* from the Airport Flat entrance, over the bridge to the old Wentworth Springs Road (north to south)
* from the old Wentworth Springs road (where it joins the pavement) to the Wentworth Springs turnout (west to east)

Please note that the USFS has *not* OK-ed OHV travel over the road all the way into the Loon Lake connector trail.

Randii

[mucknet]

Here's an idea that Dennis and I have discussed... l

Let's take the pressure off of the Loon Lake entrance and park tow rigs more near Gerle Creek. Airport Flat (just north of the creek) offers free group camping and legal parking. Just south of the creek, there is even more dirt parking, as long as we stay close to the trail and leave room for traffic to pass. There's room for 50+ rigs there if people park sanely...

From there, you can take the dirt road northeasterly across the washed out bridge (CAKE for a 4x4) and rejoin the paved road just west of Lawyer's Cow Camp before taking the historic Rubicon Trail as it winds through Wentworth Springs on into Ellis Creek. In doing so, you'll miss the traffic jam at Gatekeeper, and the parking issues at Loon.

Randii

Hi Randii,

I haven't ever come in this way, do you have a map that shows the area, so I can get an idea of the distances involved here?

[randii]

http://home.4x4wire.com/randii/fotr/rubicon_west_entrances.jpg

* The blue line is the road in past Chipmunk Bluffs to Loon Lake.
* At the second dam, the line goes green where the Loon-to-Ellis Connector starts up. This connector runs through Gatekeeper and intersects with the main Rubicon Trail 400 yards west of Ellis Creek.
* The purple line is the route past the Loon Lake turnoff, continuing on Icehouse Road past Airport Flat at Gerle Creek, around to Lawyer's Cow Camp in Gerle Meadow and through past Wentworth Springs City to Wentworth Springs Campground.
* At Wentworth Springs Campground, the purple line goes green and is the traditional Rubicon Trail which runs through to Ellis Creek, picking up the Loon-to-Ellis Connector on the way, and continues on to Spider Lake and points east.
* the orange line is the actual dirt county road, but the bridge over Gerle Creek washed out in ?1977? and traffic has diverted ever since to the USFS road. The creek crossing is easily passable by any Rubicon-worthy vehicle, I've seen 2WD trucks roll through without problem.

Hope that helps,

Randii

[randii]

The USFS has agreed to cast a blind eye on on-road OHV use for:
* from the Airport Flat entrance, over the bridge to the old Wentworth Springs Road (north to south)
* from the old Wentworth Springs road (where it joins the pavement) to the Wentworth Springs turnout (west to east)
So based on the map above, the 'blind-eye' sections of paved road upon which USFS is letting us run OHVs are:
* the section of purple line directly under the white box that contains the words "Airport Flat"
* the section of purple line directly north of Gerle Meadows and Lawyer Cow Camp, connecting the old county road and the Wentworth turnoff which is at the end of the straight purple line on the map (i.e. the main road forks to the left and continues paved northward where the Wentworth turnoff is dirt and continues eastward)

Please note that the USFS has *not* OK-ed OHV travel over the road all the way into the Loon Lake connector trail.
In other words, you should not drive your OHV-but-not-street-legal rig either north or south of the 'blind-eye' forgiven section at Airport and Gerle. If you proceed much further south than the turnoff after the river, you risk a ticket. If you make it to the Loon Lake turnoff, you still risk a ticket, since it is not legal or 'blind-eye' until east of the Loon Lake Chalet.

Hope that helps,

Randii

[Brandon]

this is like advertising barrett!

Noooooooooo

that entrance is pristine, let's keep it that way

[Rollie]

What about the Sheriff are they in on the blind eye thing

[randii]

Brandon, I'm just publishing the original route of the Rubicon Trail. :shrug: The Loon entrance is a recent addition, with respect to the history of the Rubicon Trail.

Loon Lake has become such a pressure on resources, that spreading the load has been explicitly requested by the Forest Service. Anything we can do to manage trailer parking should be a significant gain, no? Publicizing an alternative APPROVED entry/outlet to the trail should minimize pressure on the trail, and the bypassing that can result.

Ron, I'll ask tomorrow in the ROC meeting about what the Sheriff has to say about the USFS 'blind-eye' policy. I'm not quite sure who has jurisdiction, actually? :confused:

Randii

[Brandon]

if we want to spread the load why do we keep closing the "passing lanes"??

Your right, that is the original and my favorite way. It is not worn out like the rest of the trail.

http://rcrc4x4.com/gallery/albums/rubicon5_04/rubicon_5_04_001.jpg

I'm posting pics but I'm just fine with everyone going through Loon myself..

http://rcrc4x4.com/gallery/albums/rubicon5_04/rubicon_5_04_004.jpg

I don't think the cabin owners will like the extra traffic either..

[randii]

if we want to spread the load why do we keep closing the "passing lanes"??
Dunno if I get that, B. Passing lanes being bypasses? We're working to keep bypasses open that make sense, including alternate easier routes and room for vehicles to pull out to allow vehicles to pass, vehicles to break, etc. IMHO, with the 8/25/05 Forest Order, there's more need than ever before for safe and legal pull-outs, so that we can walk to our campsites. :rolleyes:

I don't think the cabin owners will like the extra traffic either..
I'm just not to worried about that, in that the trail has BEEN there for so many years. [i]:shrug:[i] If they've become used to artificially low traffic numbers since traffic shifted back in the '80s, that's THEIR issue.

Randii

[cruzila]

So based on the map above, the 'blind-eye' sections of paved road upon which USFS is letting us run OHVs are:
* the section of purple line directly under the white box that contains the words "Airport Flat"
* the section of purple line directly north of Gerle Meadows and Lawyer Cow Camp, connecting the old county road and the Wentworth turnoff which is at the end of the straight purple line on the map (i.e. the main road forks to the left and continues paved northward where the Wentworth turnoff is dirt and continues eastward)


Randii, the second part of the line you describe is part of the County road. The FS has no claim to it as a FS road. So since it "is" the Rubicon trail, it is legal for OHV use. Paved or not. The first section is however FS road . We need to get the FS to write an exclusion order for this if they are serious.

Any CHP or Sherriff with a hard on could go up there and start writing tickets. I have seen them up there recently so they have it in the patrol logs. I have little hope for interagency cooperation at the level you are describing.

Scott

ps Let's see what happens at ROC today.

[cruzila]

this is like advertising xxx trail!

Noooooooooo

that entrance is pristine, let's keep it that way


I have to respectfully disagree. That is the trail. As far as I am concerned the rest of the trail past Arnolds Rock is pristine too. There are sections of the trail where it is double the width it used to be. Or more. The reason for that is people driving rigs are trying to push the boundaries of what they can do with them. That means getting over that bigger rock right next to the trail........not a bad thing right?

Well, when it gets done over and over and I have seen major oil on rocks that just make me wonder.......the next thing you know a guy from Oregon is driving up the hill right out of the first corner at Gatekeeper to get back to his motorhome parked by the spillway. Jiminy Christmas, what is going on in these guys heads??

I went up and got into his face about it and his reply was "I thought there were hundreds of spurs" to the road. My reply was that there are many but to make your own?? NO. One of the FS guys was telling me about a guy he came upon that bragged "it took us two years to brush our way in here". They were camped way off the trail and where noone had driven before.

It is this stupidity and ignorance of the problem we need to address. If using Wentworth is going to take pressure off Loon, noone that is a OHV user should bat an eye. To be honest if it falls into too little use we could lose it based on just that.

Scott

[roundeye]

I agree but need some clarification. You say we should park at the Airport Flat area and then drive in from there?
I think the issue most have is once you see the Loon turn off, you're that much closer to wheeling instead of having to truck another 10 miles to Wentworth.

[peesalot]

would like to try that entrance for once.
So you pass the loon turn and then is airport flats down a road like loon ? , is it marked ?
Is airport flats the last stop for trailer parking when going in via wentworth ?

[mucknet]

would like to try that entrance for once.
So you pass the loon turn and then is airport flats down a road like loon ? , is it marked ?
Is airport flats the last stop for trailer parking when going in via wentworth ?

I would like to try it as well.. we're heading up there at the end of september, we'll probably go in that way.

Thanks for the map!

[randii]

Sorry, my intent was to flag two small segments, one near airport flat and one by Lawyers Camp, and NOT the connection of the two. I'll post an update map with better clarification soon.

FOTR is working with the county to get formal dual-purpose designation (OHV and street-legal) for both of these chunks, as well as the Chalet-to-Dam chunk of road. This should be the final word on making sure nobody gets a ticket, when it finalizes.

Randii

[randii]

...that entrance is pristine, let's keep it that way
I'll give hearty agreement to this, though. Whether increased traffic or not, let's keep this entrance pristine.

We have a perfect opportunity to showcase how this resource can sustain increased usage with minimal impact if users show that FOTR's education and peer-enforcement programs have paid off. The dividend is a better trail experience for us all!

Randii

[jitami]

Noooooooooo

that entrance is pristine, let's keep it that way

This was my gut reaction as well.

After reading the rest of the thread and thinking about it further I think we also need to consider the fact that this way in is more fragile than the loon lake entrance. If people treat this entrance(lots of soft soil, water crossings, delicate plant life, etc) the way they treat the loon entrance... and I don't see any reason to believe they will not treat it the same... I would think there would be an increase in damage to the trail and surrounding area. The damage in this area is/would be easier to see than it is going over the granite slabs.

Also, even though this is the original trail route, I don't think it's fair to compare recent traffic on the trail to traffic in decades past. The rigs are different, people and their attitudes different, and there are alot more of us out there than ever before. There are also more environmentalists watching our every move than ever before. I can't see how increasing traffic on this relatively fragile section of the trail would be beneficial.

I'm new to this game, though, and I know many of you have dedicated your lives to saving our trail... thank you... and can anticipate the impact more accurately than I. Just wanted to add my .02 and maybe give you something to think about.

Tami

[Brandon]

I just don't see any gain, all it will do is cause more wear/tear/erosion a section that doesn't get it. It ties in before any really issue areas on the trail so it doesn't do much good. It's not like it's a secret, any rubicon book will tell about this entrance.

I take that route whenever I drive by myself or with people that also drive (not trailer). I usually tell people about that way too - but to say have trailers park elsewhere? Once again, I don't see the gain but that's just my opinion..

[randii]

Guys, I appreciate your concern for this section of the trail, and I share these concerns for this section and the rest of the trail. With this thread, I'm simply detailing what FOTR has been asked to do to ease parking conflicts, and the efforts that the ROC is currently undertaking, all in answer to a significant change in use. Remember, we're not the only users in the Forest -- our parking affects other Loon Lake users, as well (moreso now than ever since the 8/25 Forest Order that limits off-system parking). FYI, The ROC meetings are the second Thursday of each month, and public comment is welcomed.

Here's the above map with the 'blind-eye' sections highlighted for clarity:
http://home.4x4wire.com/randii/fotr/OHV_blindeye_rubicon_west_entrances.jpg

After this week's ROC meeting, FOTR will be writing a formal request of the El Dorado County DOT to change the three boxed orange sections of road to dual-use. As is so often the case with Rubicon issues, each issue has sub-issues:
* the section of purple line directly under the white box that contains the words "Airport Flat" (pretty simple, but worthy of note that this is only a short section, and OHV dual designation does not extend north or south beyond this short section)
* the section of purple line directly north of Gerle Meadows and Lawyer Cow Camp, connecting the old county road and the Wentworth turnoff which is at the end of the straight purple line on the map (theoretically, this should already be designated 'dual use' since this is the traditional all-the-way-from Georgetown Rubicon Trail)
* the section of blue line between the Loon Lake Chalet and the second dam (this has been long-discussed but never formally requested, and will allow legal on-road travel of OHVs between trailers at the Chalet gravel overflow lot and helipad and the dam; note that this would not affect our seasonal over-the-snow no-go gentlemen's agreement)

Whew, this sure gets complicated fast.

Randii

[randii]

Update: FOTR was asked to help minimize parking conflicts by parking at Airport Flat and the gravel lot near the Chalet. We did this, as discussed above and elsewhere on the Pirate4x4 Rubicon forums, as well as at ROC meetings, at several informal FOTR gatherings, and on at least one FOTR/USFS/County field trip. This was also discussed this on the trail with many people on the July 4 and August 20 trail-count weekends.

In FOTR's name, I submitted a request to El Dorado County (EDC) and Eldorado National Forest (ENF) to reclassify several short sections of paved road that are currently legal only for street-licensed vehicles to dual-designation (street-legal AND green-sticker). All of these sections are currently available for street-licensed vehicles, and enforcement has been turning a blind eye to ticketing on them. The FOTR request is an effort to formalize this arrangement and define it on paper for the sake of permanence.

Our letter contained GPS coordinates and an annotated map, the latter of which can be seen at: http://home.4x4wire.com/randii/fotr/OHV_blindeye_rubicon_west_entrances.jpg

ENF1: The short stretch of North-South road and bridge over Gerle Creek (between the Airport Flat Campground driveway and the turnoff just south of the bridge to the East that is the old Wentworth Springs Road). This is not part of the traditional all-the-way-from-Georgetown Rubicon Trail, which followed the old Wentworth Springs Road on the south side of Gerle Creek and crossed the old washed-out county bridge, but classifying it for Dual-Designation allows OHV access from Airport Flat to the old Wentworth Springs County Road, which *IS* part of the traditional all-the-way-from-Georgetown Rubicon Trail.
ENF2: The short stretch of North-South road runs just North of Lawyer’s Cow Camp (between the Wentworth Springs turnoff and the northern-most paved section of road to the north). This is not part of the traditional all-the-way-from-Georgetown Rubicon Trail, but classifying it for Dual-Designation allows OHV access further to the north, to McKinstry, and other areas in the forest.
EDC1: The short stretch of East-West road that runs just North of Lawyer’s Cow Camp (between the northern-most dirt part of the old Wentworth Springs Road just west of Lawyer’s Cow Camp and the Wentworth Springs turnoff). This is a portion of the traditional all-the-way-from-Georgetown Rubicon Trail, and is thus County Road, but classifying it for Dual-Designation allows OHV access from the old Wentworth Springs County Road to the traditional Rubicon Trail via Wentworth Springs.
EDC2: The chunk of road that runs from the Loon Lake Chalet to just past the Loon Lake North Shore RV Campground (between the Loon Lake Chalet driveway and the eastern-most paved section of road that runs just to the north of the Loon Lake North Shore RV Campground. Re-classifying this for Dual-Designation allows OHV users to park near the Chalet at the old quarry near the helipad and then travel over pavement to access the Rubicon Trail via the Loon-to-Ellis Creek connector.

As far as I know, we don't need letters of support for this. Both the County and USFS report that this should be a slam-dunk (which means a few months to a year, generally, in government-speak). I've asked that this be tracked as a regular agenda item for ROC meetings so that we can stay abreast of status changes. Let's keep an eye on it there and escalate to request letters of support if necessary. If the powers that be are correct, it should slide through with no further effort from FOTR or its grass roots.

Randii

[randii]

Eagle-eyed viewers will notice an extension of scope...

ENF2: The short stretch of North-South road runs just North of Lawyer’s Cow Camp (between the Wentworth Springs turnoff and the northern-most paved section of road to the north). This is not part of the traditional all-the-way-from-Georgetown Rubicon Trail, but classifying it for Dual-Designation allows OHV access further to the north, to McKinstry, and other areas in the forest.

This doesn't relate to the Rubicon, per se, other than access to the headwaters of Ellis Creek via McKinstry Lake. I added this bullet after a FOTR/USFS/County field trip when I realized that green-stickered rigs would technically be in violation of the law if they drove over this short stretch of pavement. I consulted with several FOTR folks and also discussed this in a ROC meeting, and met no opposition, so I added it to the request. It seems like a win-win for motorized recreation: extended access for OHVs, no change for street-legal rigs.

Randii

[RCKRATZ]

:smokin:

[randii]

Through cooperation with the Forest, County, and CHP... the 'blind-eye' policy has been formalized with real dual-designation, as discussed:

This is great... and worth of celebration, but be aware that with these new signs, there is enhanced enfrocement of the new limits. Heed the signs -- if you have an OHV legal rig without a street legal tag, you may be ticketed outside the mixed-use areas.

I'm gonna steal the pictures straight from Ken's post...

On Saturday, July 15, Scott and I went to the Kiosk at Loon Lake armed with our materials from CA4WDC and FOTR....

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7152006/loondam2006.jpg

A new addition that was a welcome sight, was the new Combined Use signs. It is now legal to park at the Chalet, in the dirt area around the helipad. So Green sticker vehicles, including motorcycles and ATV's can use the paved section to reach the trailhead. This is a LONG TIME OVERDUE. It's imperative that this does not get abused!

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7152006/chaletsign2006.jpg

When you arrive at the Chalet area, you are greeted by the first sign which lets you know it is now a combined use Road.

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7152006/share2006.jpg

Then a second sign, reinforces the fact that we have to share! This is a great sign, and really drives the point home.

Remember, if you're interested in Trail Patrol, to visit us at http://rubicontrailpatrol.org and sign up.

[randii]

Through cooperation with the Forest, County, and CHP... the 'blind-eye' policy has been formalized with real dual-designation, as discussed...

I'll say more about this, since I'm often told by the agencies that they see criticism but little thanks (hey, it goes for volunteer organizations, as well!).

Those signs were a good bit of work to make happen, but really show the fruits of FOTR's labor, cooperating with the Forest, County, and CHP. We discussed the issues with each individually, then all of them together in the ROC meeting, and then wrote a letter to the County DOT formally requesting that these areas be dual-designated, with supporting maps and GPS coordinates. A number of people worked to make this happen, and I can't recall who all helped, but I do recall the efforts of Dennis Cullen, the Eldorado National Forest LEO leader; Rich Platt, the Eldorado National Forest Pacific District Resource Officer; and Tom Celio, the El Dorado County Deputy Department of Transportation Supervisor. These fellas stepped up well beyond what they technically were obliged to do, and helped speed the process... :grinpimp:

THANKS!
Randii

[welndmn]

damn, I knew i should of taken pics of them...........

[cruzila]

Not to mention that fact that Randii almost singlehandedly wrote this deal and put it into motion. A Big Thanks to you man!!! You rock!!

[welndmn]

Also, I know there were 2 area's while driving to wentworth that had those signs. Is that right or did I just think i see something?

[randii]

You saw it right, Mark, going in Wentworth, there are two areas:
* short stretch of road over Gerle Creek, between Airport Flats and the old county road (ENF1)
* short stretch of road taht runs past Lawyer's Cow Camp between the old county road and the Wentworth Springs turnoff (EDC1)
There are actually four distinct areas overall, detailed a ways above as ENF1, ENF2, EDC1, and EDC2.

Thanks for the good words, Scott -- I pulled the letter together, but this could not have succeeded without support and follow-through from FOTR, ROC, USFS, EDC, and CHP.

Randii

[atvobsession]

Wentworth Side - Photos.


Ok. Last week I took photos of the signs around the Chalet. This Saturday, I went over to Wentworth.

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7222006/wentworthsign.jpg

Ok. Once you pass Loon Lake Road, you only have to 2.2 miles before you hit the next Combined Use Road sign. It's before ANY available parking, so essentially, any legal place to park after the sign is ok.

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7222006/wentworthsign2.jpg

At the end of the curve in the previous photo, just around the corner, is the "Share The Road" sign.

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7222006/wentworthsign3.jpg

And coming back, is the End of combined use. It's 2.2 miles to Loon Lake Road.

http://www.atvobsession.com/pictures/trailpatrol/kiosk7222006/trail.jpg

The signs are right next to this trail...if you'd like to check your Forest Map. But trust me...there's no parking prior to the sign anyway.