Since there are a lot of Pittsburgh/Ohio folks here on the board, I thought you'd find this information useful.
A group of 7 of us from HRJA went to the Wellsville, OH trails yesterday (3/10) to scout the trails for our upcoming HRJA trailride that we have scheduled for our members on 3/16. One of the first guys from our group was stopped in the parking area, there was a gentleman there saying that he isn't allowed to ride there. (our buddy was driving an old chevy pickup towing a decently equipped YJ). The second guy there from our group (who is from Ohio), talked to the gentleman who was stopping people. Apparantly, the landowners are being sued by the family of a guy who died on his dirtbike riding on the trails a year or two ago. Also, they have been having problems with "riff-raff" as everyone who has frequented the trails there you have seen the burnt out cars etc. However, apparantly the problems are escalating - in fact the gentleman had been there since before midnight on Saturday (this was around 9:00AM) because some kids started a big tire fire.

I have the gentleman's name & number and Rick (my husband, who is president of HRJA) is going to call and talk with him this week (probably on Tuesday) about our trailride this weekend and what HRJA can do to help insure that the trails there stay open. The gentleman stated that the landowners and some people from the campsites were going to have a meeting as to what to do about the situation.

In the end, the gentleman did let us ride on the trails yesterday after we talked to him, he did turn back a pickup truck that had a bunch of firewood and teenagers in the back.

We had a great time on the trails & hit a lot of great obstacles that will be shameful to lose access to. The thing that punctuated the problem over there is that when we got done for the day & were airing up in the parking lot, there was only two of us left. We looked up the hill that is directly next to the lot and saw a giant jacked up white (older) suburban coming down the hill, followed by a jacked dodge ram. The suburban also had a plow mount on it. It was making time down the hill & accelerated through the parking lot then purposefully slammed straight into two burned out cars that were there in the lot. He then turned around and backed into them, hard. In one instance, it was strangely amusing, but mainly it was distirbuing.

I will let you folks know what I find out later this week.

I've only been to Wellsville a couple of times, but it was apparent that there is little regard for that land. Not necessarily by all, but by enought that if it were my land, I'd shut it down too.

Yah, it's an old slag dump, so it's not like virgin forest is being destroyed, but the burned out cars, dumped crap and whatnot everywhere is just stupid.

I seem to recall that the WREVs host a cleanup out there every year, but you could host a cleanup every weekend for a month and not get it clean.






oh, and suing the landowners because your kid had an accident and died is dumb. It's not the land owners fault your kid bit it. :rolleyes:

Keep us informed. I don't want to loose this place, especially when I am actually starting to see the time when my rig will be done enough to wheel!

Wellsville is a fun place. The Triangle 4wd club has a scheduled ride there on Sun 03/17/02 Hope we can ride.

MILKMAN/ BADASSJEEPGUY hope you see this thread.

Seems like the clubs who ride there need to get REAL involved, REAL fast...


Are the clubs who ride there having cleanups too? Are they just driving by the burned out cars, etc. every time they ride and not dragging them out of there?

Well, we will see what HRJA can do... I know Triangle 4wd had on their email newsletter that there is a cleanup run in Wellsville on 5/11/02. I'm sure HRJA could be involved also.... this will be our second ride there ever (if it even happens), since we've only been around since May of 2000. These are certainly some of the things we hope to talk to the powers that be about.

Anyway I could get that gentleman's name an number from ya? RRORC has a "cleanup run" planned on 5/17/02...same weekend as Triangle and a couple other clubs. I would like to call him and let our intentions be known. I think we need to get out there and have one in the next 30 days....can't hurt to try to help the situation!

keep us updated and if i can help with the cleanups let me know! i riden wellsville, great but as MO said, it is pretty junkie there but a great place to ride. i'm only 2 hrs. from it.

Keep us all posted on the deal. I'm sure that there are plenty of us in the Ohio, western Pa. region that would come over and round up a bunch of that junk. Just need a place to take it once it is gathered. We are real lucky that the EPA hasn't shut the place down due to all of the burnt vehicles there. It's really a damn shame that the place gets trashed the way it does.
I'd guarantee that 90% of it comes from locals.:mad: :mad3: :flipoff:

I'd be more than happy to help out. But like D.H. said, we'd need a place to dump what we take out... The place is fun, but it is a wasteland :(

i've linked to this thread at therangerstation.com and f150world.com, so we can get the word out, a lot of members of both those sights, as well ass rrorc, wheel there. Hopefully we can make ourselves noticed enough, and pull together and help thease people to keep the gound open for us to wheel!

Mel, I would like to talk to you asap about this. Please call me at 216.287.5627, I will get your # and call you right back.

I have been riding there since I moved back to Ohio. I have been directly involved in several issues down there, and am currently working on another right now.

I need information!

FYI, an ATV organization has a cleanup planned for Saturday 3/16!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Welby
I'd be more than happy to help out. But like D.H. said, we'd need a place to dump what we take out... The place is fun, but it is a wasteland :(

I would have to think the local authorities would be responsible for removal (once you get them to the road access point of course) of any abandoned automobiles... not sure about the rest of the trash though...

Originally posted by little_joe


FYI, an ATV organization has a cleanup planned for Saturday 3/16!!!!!!!!!!

RRORC has the cleanup planned for in may, and we got guys from f150world planning a cleanup also, potentially the same day as the roughrangers one.

Sounds like the area clubs,, ATV and 4wd ought to get together and draw up a proposal to present to the landowners at their meeting...
Perhaps offering to put up gates and try to control access to the land allowing only organized clubs that are willing to help clean the place up in exchange for permission to ride there...

Controlling access will help keep the place clean after you clean it up.. Maybe give the president of each club willing to participate in the clean-up a key...

You might check with local scrap metal places, they may pick up the junk cars and metal once you drag them out...

Local trash companies may be willing to drop some dumpsters for the other trash, as a good will environmental donation..

Perhaps even draw up some Liability Waivers for club members to sign, (some say they are worthless) but they might help ease the landowners concerns over being sued again...

If your club is a member of a larger body organization perhaps they should be contacted so they can get involved also...
.

Just outsider looking in - but it looks like lots of well meaning people are having clean-ups out there, but the property owners don't know about it? :confused:

That's probably a part of it....

other parts are:
drinking/driving (and the associated liability)
burning of crap (like cars)

Originally posted by Mo
That's probably a part of it....

other parts are:
drinking/driving (and the associated liability)
burning of crap (like cars)

Maybe the "good guys" need to step up to do some self-policing or risk losing it all :(

Hey tators, Get Real!
If you have never been to Wellsville, you definately don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Not trying to bash you here, but people come from all over come to ride at Wellsville.

There are at least 6 different ways to get into it and the real problem is the locals that use it as a dump. I'm not sure about the majority of the people from around that area, but clubs really are not that predominate around me. I'd hate to have to join a club from Cleveland or Pittsburgh or the such just to be able to wheel at Wellsville.

All someone has to do is say the word and I'll show up to help out if I am available.
Last time we were there, we talked to the owner's buddy and he gave us his phone # and told us to give them a call if we needed a place to camp. At that time they just didn't want people "camping" there. I'm sure it is due to all of the BURNING that goes on at night. All the guy is asking for is some respect for the land and to stop the dumping.
I'd really hate to see this place close, but I wouldn't blame the guy if he did.

Sorry for the rant!

Dumping seems easy enough to combat - I doubt the dumpers are bright enough to remove all tell-tale signs of who the trash came from.... just find something to link the trash to a person and the dumping can be legally dealt with quite easily.


BTW - I don't want to come across as having all the answers, just want you guys not to lose a place to wheel....

man this sucks , thats a great place to wheel! i never noticed much trash, but loads of cars, i would go for a clean up run. it may be too late. there were burt cars in the parking area in the fall , are they still there?:mad:

Again, this is what gets me....


Are you guys saying you have been driving right by burnt out cars for MONTHS and haven't said/done anything about it?

Sheesh :(

Coming soon "Wellsville" Golfcourse comunity

Concerned as I am about Wellsville, I appreciate the outsiders offering up their thoughts. So take this in the proper spirit.

You guys have no idea how screwed up Wellsville is. It's easy to say "stop them" or "trace them" or police the area, when in fact all of that would be like trying to prevent a fish from pissing in the ocean.

We have been shielded from the landowners until recently. The only experience we had was with Springer, who screwed everyone. The guy who owns the campground doesn't own any wheeling land there. With the help of folks like Mel, and Bill Kaeppner from OMTA, we will get to the bottom of this asap and hopefully something constructive will happen.

To those who won't pay to ride: it may be that or nothing. Considering it is private land and we are trespassers, $10 or $20 a day is nothing.

As soon as I get my junk running, I'll volunteer a weekend to drag burned out vehicles from whereever they lie to the entryway.

Joe, you're right. That place is a wreck. I've only been there a couple times, but I've never been there and NOT seen an open fire. Not to mention the drinking and riding. Hell, I'm surprised more people don't get killed in there.

I had no idea that the campground is owned by someone other than those that own the trails. That cannot be helping matters any.

Originally posted by little_joe
Mel, I would like to talk to you asap about this. Please call me at 216.287.5627, I will get your # and call you right back.

I have been riding there since I moved back to Ohio. I have been directly involved in several issues down there, and am currently working on another right now.

I need information!

FYI, an ATV organization has a cleanup planned for Saturday 3/16!!!!!!!!!!

Glad to see you're on the case Joe!:beer: Haven't been to Wellsville but I'd like to someday. It sucks but this type of situation seems to be occur over and over all across the country. Just how many f'ing scumbags are there??:mad3: :mad3:

**Joe, why the hell can't I log in on 4x4wire??? Every time I click log in it says 'thanks for logging in' then comes back and says I'm not logged in again. :confused: :confused:

Mel I would be able to get a few people together for the cause, we ride there once a year! I would hate to see the place totally shut down. The locals are very bad( well there I go; there a re a few that make everyone look bad) .... Let us know here, so we can plan!!!

I wheeled there once and was amazed at the trash. The unemployment in that area of the state is high which does not help the situation.

Somebody could turn that place into a PHAT off road park with some heavy machinary.

Originally posted by DRM
Again, this is what gets me....


Are you guys saying you have been driving right by burnt out cars for MONTHS and haven't said/done anything about it?

Sheesh :( somebody already drug them out to be hauled away! and you just dont want to go draggin dead shit all over wellsville without a proper disposal plan . there is enough burt cars to start your own salvage yard . if there deep in the woods until the proper time it does not look so bad to the average joe who can get to there in his minivan.:eek: :eek:

little joe, mel, anyone who has contact with the actual landowners..... please get in touch with me.... i pulled out of vp for triangle due to work schedual..... but i accepted to help with land use issues............... this is very important to me......... wellsville is i great place.... its true though us clubs need to get stronger some how..... the problem is the local people dumping theyre shit there........... busy weekends you dont see dumping.... well ya you do usually beer cans from the camper's.... but i think the burnt (stolen) vehicles in such happen late at night when the scumbag drunkin stoopers dump there stolen carp! :mad:


maybe the land owners, myself and some of you can go to the local council to try and get something goin............... i can talk with the local coppers... :D

count me in Mel for a clean up or anything. just keep me posted.
i would love to help any way i can, because this is exactly what happend to hillsville. i dont know if any of you have ever been there but i guess it was the same deal, but due to people dying and all the burnt and stolen cars they shut it down and i never got to ride there.
long story short, i will try to stay posted and round up any help i can.
as far as the burnt cars go, what about just draggin' them to the road and calling a local scrapyard or junkyard. they would probably come get them for free.

Brent

BAJG & Todd- Rick will be calling the guy tommorrow (Rick had to travel all day to start a job today). We'll see what we can find out - BTW, Glenn, Greg & Bob (who belong to Triangle, also) were with us, so they can give you the scoop, too if you happen to talk to them.

I certainly believe that Triangle & HRJA & Premier should triple-team this issue representing the *Pittsburgh* crowd at least. I didn't mention it before, but the guy did complain (to our member from Ohio) that "Pittsburgh people" were coming in & partying & causing problems. I take that with a grain of salt, but it'd be nice to get our groups together on this, especially since there is a decent amount of overlapping members nowadays.

I'll keep you all up to date as to what we find out....

I have a small Jeep trailer for small trash.... I got to fix my ARB so I can pull it easier thru the muk etc..

Once this is done I can do planned Sunday runs most likely and maybe sat runs. I often work 7 days a week but Ill do it if Im dont end up scheduled.

Originally posted by Mel85CJ
BAJG & Todd- Rick will be calling the guy tommorrow (Rick had to travel all day to start a job today). We'll see what we can find out - BTW, Glenn, Greg & Bob (who belong to Triangle, also) were with us, so they can give you the scoop, too if you happen to talk to them.

I certainly believe that Triangle & HRJA & Premier should triple-team this issue representing the *Pittsburgh* crowd at least. I didn't mention it before, but the guy did complain (to our member from Ohio) that "Pittsburgh people" were coming in & partying & causing problems. I take that with a grain of salt, but it'd be nice to get our groups together on this, especially since there is a decent amount of overlapping members nowadays.

I'll keep you all up to date as to what we find out....


just give me a holler and keep me informed..... any kind of meetings i would like to be at.... sunday meetings are good, as i am off work... :D call whenever 412-414-9046

Premiere is definately a supporter of Triangle and HRJA, and also this issue. Pittsburgh people partying there not us, members of the off road community! I know on all of our trail rides :beer: is not exeptable! Now after we cann really drink some :beer: :beer: :beer: but that is a differant story. We would never leave trash anywhere, I know most of our jeeps come back full of trash that we already picked up throughout the day!! Well Mel Rob anyone else email me or call me so we can discuss what the plans are......
724-246-2893 home
412-691-3929 cell
toddkish@hotmail.com
premierecrawler@hotmail.com
thanks
TK

I talked to a couple of the guys that I wheel with from around here and they all said to let them know the dates and they would show up to help too. We just need to organize and invite the landowner too. If we can get him out there to see that we mean business, maybe he will consider allowing access for offroaders.
It's worth a try.

You guys pick the date and I'll do what I can to help out :D

Originally posted by Welby
You guys pick the date and I'll do what I can to help out :D

ditto this, i will do my best to make it also;)


just let us know when, if everybody from around the area helps, we'll make a diff.:D

Originally posted by DRM
Just outsider looking in - but it looks like lots of well meaning people are having clean-ups out there, but the property owners don't know about it? :confused:

Dave, Wellsville has a large parking area at the entrance.
This is where everyone unloads there Jeeps/ Dirtbikes/ quads and then camp right there.

Seems like the burnt out cars are scattered throughout the entire off road area. In the creekbeds off the main traveled area's over embankments. You name it there is a burnt out car/truck/minivan/whatever there.

It will take an orginized team effort to drag this junk out. some places will require 2 or 3 tow rigs in line to drag them to the parking area. (where they could be picked up by scrapyards)

If you saw how large an area we are talking about you might understand it better. But thanks for the input.

As for trash, I would say most is camping leftovers and its in the parking area... ANYONE DISAGREE ON THIS PART?
So that part would clean up quickly. The big problem is the junk cars/trucks...

Camping leftovers would be a fairly easy cleanup. What would be tuff is the tires, rims, old roofing materials, and the general crap that gets dumped there.
As for dragging out the burnt vehicles, I don't even know how to start pulling some of those out. Anyone have a dozer w/ a heavy winch? I'm not sure you could do it with truck winches.
I think that the biggest problem is that you can get anything back there. And I mean anything, cars, vans, 2wds.
Even if they close it, the dumping will not stop. All the locals know about 6 different ways in.
I've been told that the place is around 2000 acres.

:smokin: :smokin: POST #420:smokin: :smokin:

Its a true wasteland. There is no possible way to gate it or keep locals out.

I think all these respectable, intelligent, and effective clubs need to organize. ATV & 4WD. Wellsville is a cool place, it should not be closed. The way i see it is, these clubs need to show the land owner/s that our community(offroaders) are not the ones dumping and trashing the land. 9 times out of ten when an ATV or dirtbike rider is injured severely or killed, (at least in my area), alcohol was invlolved. Hell when i was at wellsville a guy on a quad wrecked and broke both legs and he was so far out the emrgency workers couldnt even get to him. We were talkin to some of the emergency personel and they said it happens way too often and most of the time the people involved were drinking.
Since it is private property the land owner really needs to step up. After all its his/her land, they need to be in control of it. I know they had a terrible time and money was lost before(different land owner i believe). But maybe passes should be issued to legit users.

I know i am rambling, Joe, BadAss, i know you guys and everyone else involved will come up with a good proposal for the land owner. Something has to be done about this place, personally if i owned it, it would have been closed a long time ago.

GOOD LUCK!

Originally posted by YJ4RoX
Its a true wasteland. There is no possible way to gate it or keep locals out.

Since it is private property the land owner really needs to step up. After all its his/her land, they need to be in control of it.


Don't you think these two statements are contradictory??:confused:

I know what you're getting at, but it seems for the owner to 'control' the property he would have to build an 8' wall around it or hire a platoon of Marines. There is a much smaller place with a similar situation close to me. Burned cars, trash, and other crap. The owner keeps putting up signs and cables, and the locals keep tearing them down. There is even a really brave SOB around there with a Bobcat, made himself a nice motorcycle track, and even pushed down a large berm at the entrance.

The world is full of sh!theads, and there's nothing we can do.:( :mad:

Never been to wellsville, but was planning on it.....heard great things. We all know what happened to hillsville, I'd hate to see that happen to another great local spot. Don't belong to a club....can't find one really, but do have tons of friends who would be willing to help out. Send me an e-mail updating me as far as what I can do, and when it is going to be done. Could probably get another 10-15 guys, to give a helping hand. Let me know.

Hello,

I represent the Trail Keepers Foundation. We can help you with the cleanup. We organize the annual Livingston Cleanup every year. Last year we made the Lexington Herald and the 11 o'clock news with the cleanup. We had over 200 people show up, removed 3 dumpsters of trash, 4 vehicles, 200 small tires and 20 "earthmover-size" tires. Here are some reports about the event:

http://www.trailkeepers.org/TKF/TKFWeb.nsf/docs/TJRG53JH4P

http://www.jeepaholics.com/feature/livingstoncleanup/

In the articles you will see we offer many incentives for the volunteers who work the event - free gloves, free drinks, prizes for the most trash collected, t-shirts, raffle items, etc. We are a non-profit organization and we raise money with trail rides and rock-crawling events, then spend that money on trail maintenance and cleanup events. We have several competitive rock-crawling events this year, and we hope to make a significant amount of money, so we may even be able to rent earth-moving equipment for your cleanup. We can also take care of the waste removal costs, which we did at Livingston.

You can read about our competitive rock crawling events here:

http://www.erocc.com

You can read about our upcoming fund-raising trail ride here:

http://www.trailkeepers.org/TKF/TKFWeb.nsf/docs/TJRG56JRCB

In addition to our events and trail maintenance work, we are currently pursuing 501(c)3 status, which would make us a public charity. Once we have that status, land owners, like those in Wellsville, could donate recreational use of their land to our organization, who could then manage it for them. It would offer them a tax break, plus reduce their liability.


Thank you for your time.

Tim Rettig
President
The Trail Keepers Foundation
http://www.trailkeepers.org

Tim,
Sounds like you guys have a great thing going there...

C'mon guys, let's get a date set in stone and a meeting time. I'm ready to clean some sheeot up :D :bounce:

If I understand correctly, Triangle is going to be there on Sunday.
I think that I am going to make a pass by there on my way back from Slippery Rock on Sunday and pick up a few bags of trash and run a short trail or two.

Please check out the updated thread on this subject:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39315

hey guys i linked to this post out of ju so i did my part and took it over to quadratec. i and as many people as i can will be down there on the 23rd doing a cleanup. id go down tommorrow but i got to get my jeep running first. btw heres my post: http://www.quadratec.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=003731

there are wellsville pics in my photos if youy have never been there and want to see what its like.

Maybe we could bind together an effort to clean

check out the link.... click here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42619)

Pottsy