What I need are measurements for a roll bar.

I have the main hoop that came stock with an SSII, and I have the smittybuilt front cage bars. They rise from the front floor boards, bend to avoid the dash, then bend again to go back and meet the main hoop. Anyone used this setup? Can you tell me the distance from the main hoop to that first bend? Since I can't put the bar in until I get it cut, all I can do is set it close, then start cutting it back until I get to the right length, and then, I have to take into account that I will be coping it as well, so it gets a little complicated, and trial and error cutting is tedious and could leave me a little short.

If someone has done this, and has the measurement, I would appreciate it.


It looks like the leg portion is already the correct height. All I need is the horizontal length.

Thanks

OK, more work but it will probably work well...

Unbolt your stock cage and slide it back, prop the front bar in and then slide the rear bar forward till it hits the front (uncut) bar. The measure how far back your stock bar it from bolting back in place.

That would work for a good first measurement/starting paint. Cut and cope the SC88 too about 1/8" from that measurement, bolt the main bar back in and test fit. then trip from there till you get the fit and placement you want.

Should atleast give you a close starting point....

Hoop,

Any chance that the bar will fit behind the dash? I really want to postion the front bar behind the dash, for clearence and the cool factor. If you could post some pics of the mock up. All the pics I've seen of the Shitty-built look like it would be possible. What is the material used? Is it 2" 1.20 wall, or :question:

Joe

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
OK, more work but it will probably work well...

Unbolt your stock cage and slide it back, prop the front bar in and then slide the rear bar forward till it hits the front (uncut) bar. The measure how far back your stock bar it from bolting back in place.

That would work for a good first measurement/starting paint. Cut and cope the SC88 too about 1/8" from that measurement, bolt the main bar back in and test fit. then trip from there till you get the fit and placement you want.

Should atleast give you a close starting point....

You are right. That sounds like a lot of work.

Actually, I think I figured out a way. I need to set my SB bars in place up front, with the bar rotated slightly so the horizontal arm runs on the outside of my existing hoop. That will tell me where the SB bar needs to run to clear the dash. That will tell me where the front riser meets the floor. I can mark that, then just measure from where my main hoop meets the floor, forward to that point. That distance is the distance from the inside of the cope on the horizontal bar of the SB tube to the foot. I just need to lay out a grid on my garage floor, and I should be able to mark the smitty bar to match.

In any case, as I think about it, I do have some room for slack. I obviously want the front bar as close to the dash as possible, but half an inch forward or rearward to adjust would not be a crisis. I don't have windows to roll up, in any case. Only casualty will be my ability to open my glove box.

I would start with a tape measure. :flipoff2:

Do you want the bar *right* against the dash, or will you want it spaced back just a touch (headlight/e-brake/??)?

Don't forget to have the "feet" attached and/or at least taken into account before you assume the front upright part doesn't need trimmed.

I'd start by putting it all in place and standing it with the "L" bar just to the outside of the top bend of the main hoop.

That would be pretty darn close.

Shove the bar as close to the dash as you can, then measure where the bar comes to the main hoop.

You'll probably be moving the side bar inboard an inch or two away from the bend and onto the horizontal top section anyhow, so measuring for the "fitting" with the bar just outside of the bend should be pretty close when you change to just inside of the bend.

Probably not enough of a difference to really worry about angling the fish-mouth - make it at 90-deg.

Remember that if you're fish-mouthing with a hole-saw, you'll want the pilot bit to take a bite right about the center of the main hoop - so mark there.

Worst case when you assemble it the bar will be rearward of the dash a little bit when you finally fit it all up..

Originally posted by jdjanda
Hoop,

Any chance that the bar will fit behind the dash? I really want to postion the front bar behind the dash, for clearence and the cool factor. If you could post some pics of the mock up. All the pics I've seen of the Shitty-built look like it would be possible. What is the material used? Is it 2" 1.20 wall, or :question:

Joe


I doubt hoop is going that way. No real need with an SSII... however.. wait a month or too till I do mine... it will be that way.

Three "problems". Two are easy, one is less easy.

The dash and dash pad will need to be cut. Metal dash is easy, the pad may be a little harder to get it to look good (not a hack-job).

The bigest "problem" will be the suport bar under the dash. A through the dash bar will very likely right through the mounts for it. Easy to fix with a welder... if you want to weld it together.

I'll be looking at it though.

The Smitty is 2" dia. I will *probably* use it for the race truck. Most rules require 2". I belive the trail truck will be 1.5" custom made up by the SNORT boys (S&N Fab... tubing masters!!) to fit seamlessly under the 1/2 cab.

The race truck will be the "test" canidate.....

Originally posted by jdjanda
Hoop,

Any chance that the bar will fit behind the dash? I really want to postion the front bar behind the dash, for clearence and the cool factor. If you could post some pics of the mock up. All the pics I've seen of the Shitty-built look like it would be possible. What is the material used? Is it 2" 1.20 wall, or :question:

Joe

2"x.120 (not 1.20 :flipoff2: ) HREW.. you can see the seam.

I thought I had some pictures of mine.. but hellifIknow where..

Originally posted by tsm1mt


2"x.120 (not 1.20 :flipoff2: ) HREW.. you can see the seam.


No I meant 1.20, I thought we we're suppose to build it beefy around here ;)

Don't start the seam debate, because DOM has a seam.

Joe

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
The dash and dash pad will need to be cut. Metal dash is easy, the pad may be a little harder to get it to look good (not a hack-job).

Use a hole saw, with the drill running in reverse for the dash. Should give you a nice smooth cut.


Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
The biggest "problem" will be the support bar under the dash. A through the dash bar will very likely right through the mounts for it. Easy to fix with a welder... if you want to weld it together.

Yup, from everything I've seen the support is the challenge. I thought about running the support to the bar and welding it there, then building tabs to mount the dash support bar to. Should also help tie the cage and body together.

Any thoughts about frame tie-ins? I want to isolate the frame tie-ins from the body. Thought about using a poly pad at the foot of the bar, sandwiched between the frame tie-in, body, and bar. I don't like the bushing at the frame, because it would seem to allow the cage to shift.

Joe

Originally posted by jdjanda
Hoop,

Any chance that the bar will fit behind the dash? I really want to postion the front bar behind the dash, for clearence and the cool factor. If you could post some pics of the mock up. All the pics I've seen of the Shitty-built look like it would be possible. What is the material used? Is it 2" 1.20 wall, or :question:

Joe

Not even going to try :) Mine will run in front. Mark sounds like he has some good ideas on that though.

Originally posted by tsm1mt
I would start with a tape measure. :flipoff2:

Do you want the bar *right* against the dash, or will you want it spaced back just a touch (headlight/e-brake/??)?

Don't forget to have the "feet" attached and/or at least taken into account before you assume the front upright part doesn't need trimmed.

I'd start by putting it all in place and standing it with the "L" bar just to the outside of the top bend of the main hoop.

That would be pretty darn close.

Shove the bar as close to the dash as you can, then measure where the bar comes to the main hoop.

You'll probably be moving the side bar inboard an inch or two away from the bend and onto the horizontal top section anyhow, so measuring for the "fitting" with the bar just outside of the bend should be pretty close when you change to just inside of the bend.

Probably not enough of a difference to really worry about angling the fish-mouth - make it at 90-deg.

Remember that if you're fish-mouthing with a hole-saw, you'll want the pilot bit to take a bite right about the center of the main hoop - so mark there.

Worst case when you assemble it the bar will be rearward of the dash a little bit when you finally fit it all up..

Correct. It won't be *right* against the dash. Ebrake and headlight concerns. I realize I want it as far forward as possible so I am not banging my knee on it, but I am not a big guy, so I don't think that is going to be a big problem.

I was looking at that bend in the main hoop you are talking about. Too bad it has to come in like that. It would be cleaner if it could go straight back, parallel to the axis of the truck, but it just won't work that way. So, the inboard, outboard measurement should be pretty close.

I will have a pc of 1/4" plate on the floorboard when I do my final measurements for the vertical leg, but that is an easy measurement. Just measure to the top of the main hoop, then make the smitty match, taking the plate into account.

That is my biggest headache is the coping or fish mouthing. Don't have a drill press. Kevin has offered to help with that, or I might just run it down to a local shop and see how much they would charge for those two holes.

Hey, what is the diameter of the main hoop? Can't remember.

Originally posted by jdjanda


No I meant 1.20, I thought we we're suppose to build it beefy around here ;)

Don't start the seam debate, because DOM has a seam.

Joe

Hmmm.. 1.2 wall by 2" OD.. that's more than solid! :D

Yeah, talk about beef... but I bet you'd end up Turtle more often than not!

I wasn't arguing that the seam meant HREW.. just that "you can see the seam".. so it's not the high-zoot truly seamless stuff.

And I really doubt it's DOM.. given it's a "show bar" and it would cost more for DOM. :D

My front kits were under $100 each ($86?).. I have two of 'em.

Heck, might be for sale with the bender on the way n' all..

I bought them when I was in Spokane about 5 or 6 years ago because I was *told* at the time they couldn't be shipped, and I was in the area, so..

I haven't fixed the body mounts, and don't want to put the 'cage in until I can fix the mounts n' floor.. and bedline...

Which at this point also means putting the new quarters in, tubbing the back half.. *sigh*

Originally posted by Hooper

It would be cleaner if it could go straight back, parallel to the axis of the truck, but it just won't work that way



It would work if you angled it DOWN just a bit.. but then you're into head-room in/out, and you'd need to increase the bend at the top of the windshield.


Hey, what is the diameter of the main hoop? Can't remember.

Should be 2", same as the SC88 kit.

Originally posted by jdjanda



Any thoughts about frame tie-ins? I want to isolate the frame tie-ins from the body. Thought about using a poly pad at the foot of the bar, sandwiched between the frame tie-in, body, and bar. I don't like the bushing at the frame, because it would seem to allow the cage to shift.

Joe

Easiest would be to just make the feet fit over the body mount bolts and use a longer mounting bolt.

Easy to get the foot-well mounts, and if you re-work the rear cage, you can run it back to the rear of the tub where the rear most mount bolts are.

Hard part is the mid mount/main hoop, since the floor is so much higher than the mounting bolt..

Originally posted by jdjanda


Any thoughts about frame tie-ins? I want to isolate the frame tie-ins from the body. Thought about using a poly pad at the foot of the bar, sandwiched between the frame tie-in, body, and bar. I don't like the bushing at the frame, because it would seem to allow the cage to shift.

Joe

actually, the mount you picture there is really nice.... who's is it??


probably would be harder to do with a front bar through the dash, you would be in the body mount area.

Another idea (and since I *should* do my front mounts anyway) would be to rebuilt the front mounts out of some MUCH heavier stock.. say 2" 1/4 wall square tube or so.... build them AS front frame tie-downs, then upgrade the body bolt and frame mount..

Not sure if it would pass some race techs... but would be great for a trail rig.

What you have pictured I don't think would "seem to allow the cage to shift". The frame is bolted securaly to the body.. so the only "shifting" is the normal body shift. *I* don't think a piece of poly between the mounts would give enough isolation... unless it was thick and soft... but then the bolts wouldn't be tight...


I like the "spring bushing" idea pictured.. but I would be inclined to bolt it on... less chance of "peeling" the frame at the weld point...

Your trying to notch 1.5" tube to 2" tube? Print this out and wrap it around the 1.5" tube. Cut to fit. I'll also E mail it to you so it's the right size.
Or you could just use my tubing notcher.:)

Originally posted by Scoutaholic
Your trying to notch 1.5" tube to 2" tube? Print this out and wrap it around the 1.5" tube. Cut to fit. I'll also E mail it to you so it's the right size.
Or you could just use my tubing notcher.:)
Hmm, I like the sound of that!!! :D

I'll be measuring and marking this weekend, soooooo, I might be ready to do some cutting next week or next weekend.... :D

So, how many times do you figure I will whack my head on the bars before I figure out I need to duck when I get in and out.

On a positive note, I will be able to use the bars to climb in and out, instead of the steering wheel. All you folks who complain about climbing in and out, remember the inserts on an SSII are 4-5 inches higher than the bottom of a standard door/top of the rocker. I have to sweep my feet that much higher to get in and out. It helps to have something to hold onto.

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
actually, the mount you picture there is really nice.... who's is it??

Not sure pulled it off the BB a while back.


Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
What you have pictured I don't think would "seem to allow the cage to shift". The frame is bolted securaly to the body.. so the only "shifting" is the normal body shift. *I* don't think a piece of poly between the mounts would give enough isolation... unless it was thick and soft... but then the bolts wouldn't be tight...


I'm just concerned about the angle, and having something that allows the support to move. If you had a body mount tear off at that point that setup is not going much as far as keeping the cage from moving up and down.

Joe

Originally posted by Hooper


So, how many times do you figure I will whack my head on the bars before I figure out I need to duck when I get in and out.

That depends on how bad it hurts the first time.:D A good lump could be a great reminder.:p

Originally posted by Scoutaholic

That depends on how bad it hurts the first time.:D A good lump could be a great reminder.:p

I bet it hurts enough I will remember pretty quick.... :)

OK. Time to see if the garage floor is dry enough to go work on the truck...

Dont know how they quote the message text but this is my version
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Since I can't put the bar in until I get it cut, all I can do is set it close, then start cutting it back until I get to the right length, and then, I have to take into account that I will be coping it as well, so it gets a little complicated, and trial and error cutting is tedious and could leave me a little short.
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Hey Pat i had to chuckle here I read your description of complicated above and laughed. Funny thing is when someone says my job is easy and takes no experiance :flipoff2: . I just laugh and smile. Guess my experiance comes in handy every so offen when I am doing a job. Then ya get bitchers about cost on doing shiat.

Give me a call if ya want and I can give ya some ideas. Mark covered one of the best ways thought :beer:

Fleckster

OK. Here is what I have found.

In order to get the top bar parallel to the ground, I need to kick the foot all the way forward on the floor pan until it is almost even with the body mount bolt. With the foot in this position, the bar angles up, scrapes by the dash, bends out, heads for the windshield frame, but clears by about half an inch (to the rear of the frame), then bends rearward, parallel with the ground. I can set the bar so the outside of it is flush with the outside face of the aliminum SSII windshield spacer where the SSII doors ride against so I shouldn't have any interference there. The way I measure it, it will connect to the main bar about 4 inches or so from the vertical leg of the main bar. This is technically still part of the bend of the main tube, but it has mostly flattened out by this point. Hmm, I did not check for interference with the SSII side bars that run from the windshield frame to the rear hoop. Have to take a look at that. Also, although the headlight switch clears, no problem, the ebrake is completely blocked. (I don't have an ebrake right now in any case)

Also, with it in this position, I do not need to cut any off the vertical leg of the bar. And, in fact, it seems like it would be good not to cut any off, to keep the top bar as high as possible, and still be parallel to the ground. As it sits, it is pretty close to even with the top of the SSII aluminum bracket on the windshield frame. A good place for it, I think. But, because of the angle of the bar, to get the top parallel, the flat face of the bottom of the vertical leg is not parallel to the floorboards. It kicks up maybe a quarter of an inch on the front (front of vehicle) I thought to remedy this, perhaps get some tube that has a 2 inch inner diameter, cut it to the correct angle so it sits flush against the foot plate, then weld that to the foot plate. I could then sleeve the end of the smitty bar inside that, and that minor space at the bottom becomes irrelevent..

For the dash bar, did you run it along the top of the dash pad, that is, so the bottom of the dash bar is almost touching the top corner of the dash pad? The dash bar kind of runs between the dash pad and the back of the steering wheel, and a little above the dash pad?

Biggest question is whether running the bars that far out will interfere with the windshield frame to rear bow bars. I suppose I could figure out a way to shorten those bars so they tied into the roll bar then pushed into the rear bow, then just put a couple snaps into the roll bar itself for the top to snap onto...

So, what else am i forgetting???