I'm looking at building my own trailer, but have many questions on the design options. I'll probably start with a set of plans already out there, but modify for my needs.

Some of the things I'm looking for...

Tongue length:
What are the effects of a longer/shorter tongue length? Consider a 16' trailer, I think the 'ususal' tongue length is about 4'. It seems though that if you make it longer, like 5', it would give you more clearance on tight turns and make the trailer track better and more stable. Is there a downside to this? Or a formula for figuring the optimal length?


Wheels/tires:
I've ruled out car/truck tires and will use trailer tires. From searching, it looks like Goodyear Marathon's are a good choice. Will standard 15" car/truck rims work so long as the width is correct for the tire? Or are trailer rims special in some way?


Toolboxs:
For those with toolboxs on the front or tongue. Do you have problems with getting the tongue weight right? It seems you could end up with a wide range of weights with an empty trailer, loaded trailer, empty toolbox to several hunderd pounds in the toolbox. Is it really an issue, or do you just set the axle location for a 'middle-of-the-road' toolbox weight and make sure you have enough length to be able to move the load a little bit based on what's in the box?


Springs:
Slipper or double-eye? Haven't really seen anything on the plus/min of either type.


Axles/hubs:
I'm looking for 5k or better axles. These are all greased hubs it seems and I've seen options for either 'E-Z-lube' or 'Nev-R-Lube' hubs. Preferences?



thanks
--Dan

I'll be watching this thread.

Dan, why the 5k axles? You planning on building up a bigger rig in the future? Doesn't your truck only weight about 4,000 lbs?

-Wayne

I ain't skeered but, on the other hand, about all I have to offer is general info. If you're gonna build it, build it how you want to.

Tongue length is a matter of preference and your always going to have to locate the load for balance/tongue weight. A 3/4 or 1-ton pickup with a Class 5 receiver should handle a reasonably loaded tongue toolbox on an unloaded trailer. But I could overload my F-250 w/Class 5 easily if I tried to.

The longer the distance between a towrig's rear axle and the trailer's axles, the smoother the ride and more gentle turning....especially when backing. But unloaded tongue weight will be the determining factor.

Car wheels are inapplicable for a 10K trailer. 8-lug wheels are the norm, though I've seen some 10K trailers with 6-lugs.

Where hubs are concerned, I prefer to hand pack my bearings and don't know anything about greaseable hubs.

A while back, I did a search of all the "sticky" info FYRMAN assembled and recall that there's info there regarding general trailer design. Check out Billavista's info here: Trailer Tech (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Towing/index.html)

In the event you consider building a gooseneck, I have a file containing a materials list and dimensions. Let me know and I'll locate and e-mail it to you.

Good luck.

Sam

Dan, why the 5k axles? You planning on building up a bigger rig in the future? Doesn't your truck only weight about 4,000 lbs?

The rig is ~4500. Figure 1.5k - 2k for the trailer, a few hunderd pounds of 'stuff' and a ~10% safety margin and I'm pushing the limits for 3.5k axles, especially if the trailer comes out heavy (I'm considering a tilt-deck so it may). 5k axles really don't add much to the cost over 3.5k. I'd just rather be well under the axle's load limit than hovering right under it. 5k's also have much larger brakes, spindles and wheel bearings. I like that :smokin:

I'm planning on brakes on both axles, possibly a tilt and 96" - 100" max width deck & drive-over fenders to fit through my RV gate.

--Dan

5k's also have much larger brakes, spindles and wheel bearings. I like that :smokin:

Yeah, the 5200# axles are nice... Plus, wheels are easy to come by in the 6x5.5 pattern. Wish my trailer had 'em.

For the springs.. double eye, fer sure. slippers have alot of friction, which leads to a rough ride IME.

Yeah, the 5200# axles are nice... Plus, wheels are easy to come by in the 6x5.5 pattern. Wish my trailer had 'em.


Depending on your towrig, you might want to see if you can upgrade to 8-lug hubs. My 10k trailer has 6 lugs, I wish they were 8 so I could use the truck's spare if needed.

Pete

I built my own trailer last year, and I really enjoyed it. Used C5 Channel on the main beam and tongue. 10K ball coupler, 4' tongue with tool box, 16'x 8' wood deck with driveover fenders. 5200lbs axles each with brakes, GY marathon 225 75r15 load D. The tires came mounted on trailer rims already. Double eye springs, etc... After a dozen trips and so far, I wouldn't change a thing.

I built my own trailer last year, and I really enjoyed it. Used C5 Channel on the main beam and tongue. 10K ball coupler, 4' tongue with tool box, 16'x 8' wood deck with driveover fenders. 5200lbs axles each with brakes, GY marathon 225 75r15 load D. The tires came mounted on trailer rims already. Double eye springs, etc... After a dozen trips and so far, I wouldn't change a thing.

This sounds a lot like what I'm after. Got any pics or buildup info on it? What did you use for crossmembers and what's it's weight?

--Dan

Tongue length is a matter of preference and your always going to have to locate the load for balance/tongue weight.

Understood. What I'm getting at is that it seems if the tongue is a little longer, load location becomes less critical. You'll end up with a longer "sweet spot" for the load and it'll track and back better with more distance to between the truck and trailer wheels.

I just want to know if/what the downside is. I mean you could go too far right? A 6' - 8' tongue for instance??? I think 3' - 4' is common for a 16' trailer and I was thinking of about a 5' tongue. I just don't want it to bite me in the ass later on if there's something I'm not thinking about.



Car wheels are inapplicable for a 10K trailer. 8-lug wheels are the norm, though I've seen some 10K trailers with 6-lugs.


The axles come standard with 6-lug. Even the 3.5k can come with 6-lug as well though. This is the one I'm looking at:
http://www.etrailerpart.com/52ktraileraxle.htm


In the event you consider building a gooseneck, I have a file containing a materials list and dimensions. Let me know and I'll locate and e-mail it to you.

Thanks, I would like to see that. I'm not building a gooseneck, but I would like to see the materials list just for more examples on what to use. My email is linked to my ID.

And BTW, the tow rig is an '01 Expedition w/ class IV hitch.

thanks
--Dan

This sounds a lot like what I'm after. Got any pics or buildup info on it? What did you use for crossmembers and what's it's weight?

--Dan

Picture of trailer without deck:

http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/4483/t654sc.jpg

With deck:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8083/t681eb.jpg

Cross members and side supports are c4 @ 5.4, main beams and A-frame c5 @ 6.7. Trailer weighs around 2250 lbs.

Another question. Do drop-axles suck off the main road? It seems for rutted, washed out roads, the corners of the trailer may drag before that axles really do. Right now I'm looking at a nearly deck-over deck height of about 28". Not bad for less-improved roads, but a little higher than I wanted.

--Dan

Understood. What I'm getting at is that it seems if the tongue is a little longer, load location becomes less critical. You'll end up with a longer "sweet spot" for the load and it'll track and back better with more distance to between the truck and trailer wheels.

I just want to know if/what the downside is. I mean you could go too far right? A 6' - 8' tongue for instance??? I think 3' - 4' is common for a 16' trailer and I was thinking of about a 5' tongue. I just don't want it to bite me in the ass later on if there's something I'm not thinking about.

thanks
--Dan

Lengthening the tongue adds more tongue weight unless you relocate the rear axles more forward proportionately; or, you'll be locating your rig more rearward to compensate. With a WD hitch it wouldn't make a lot of difference with proper springbar selection.

I think the gooseneck file is about 3 MB....are you up to it? :flipoff2: FILE SENT 09/12/05 @ 1820 hrs EST

Personally, if I were going to pull a 10K and up trailer I think I would go with a gooseneck system. My F-250 is good with all systems but tows like a dream with my gooseneck and 5th wheel hitches.

This is the one I'm looking at:
http://www.etrailerpart.com/52ktraileraxle.htm


I have also looked at getting axles from this place. Anyone buy from them, or recommend somewhere else?

here is a slightly lower priced place:
http://abctrailerparts.com/traileraxlekits10.4k.html

(Sorry for the hijack Dan..)
Anyone hear anything about building up a set of axles from the spindles some of these trailer supply houses sell? Since my axles will be a bit on the narrow side, I'm thinking of building up from the spindles. Might save on the fright of the axles anyhow.

Also I notice some axles are sold with caster in them. Why?

That's enough dumb questions for now.

-Wayne

Sorry for the hijack...... n9emz, can you send me the gooseneck file too?
Thanks,
RickyB

Sorry for the hijack...... n9emz, can you send me the gooseneck file too?
Thanks,
RickyB

FILE SENT 09/12/05 @ 2145 hrs EST

I have also looked at getting axles from this place. Anyone buy from them, or recommend somewhere else?

here is a slightly lower priced place:
http://abctrailerparts.com/traileraxlekits10.4k.html

(Sorry for the hijack Dan..)
Anyone hear anything about building up a set of axles from the spindles some of these trailer supply houses sell? Since my axles will be a bit on the narrow side, I'm thinking of building up from the spindles. Might save on the fright of the axles anyhow.

Also I notice some axles are sold with caster in them. Why?

That's enough dumb questions for now.

-Wayne If you build your own axles you should put caster and camber in them. Factory made trailer axles have both. They do it for the same reason auto manufacturers do.

Not sure which reasons you're speaking of, but i've heard trailer axles are cambered a bit so that when they are loaded they will flatten out for better tire wear. Dont know how you'd put caster in a non steering axle though :confused:

Dallas

Here are some good resources for trailer building and parts
http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1080235/f/Design_Considerations.pdf
http://www.dexteraxle.com/trailer_resource_library

I bought a lot of my parts from these guys:http://www.redneck-trailer.com/

Dont know how you'd put caster in a non steering axle though :confused:

Dallas

That's right, trailer axles have camber built into them, not caster.

n9emz, if you don't mind sending that file one more time, I can host it for everyones use. admin@flashover4x4.com.

Thanks

n9emz, if you don't mind sending that file one more time, I can host it for everyones use. admin@flashover4x4.com.

Thanks

No Problem....

FILE SENT 09/13/05 @ 1320 hrs EST

Here is the info from n9emz (http://flashover4x4.com/pirate_trailer_construction) I will update the page when I get home.

That's right, trailer axles have camber built into them, not caster.
Maybe I am using the wrong terms? I hope I can explain :-). Camber would be when viewing an axle from front (or rear), and the tires are tilted in at the bottom, like this \ /? Caster is when the tires (toward the tongue of trailer) would be narrower, compared to the rear measurement. Hard to explain, wish I had a camera. Before I hang axles, I measure then and have found they have both camber and caster. I have noticed really light axles (1lb capacity) sometimes have no caster. All of the 3500 lb axles I have measured have camber and caster?

Maybe I am using the wrong terms? I hope I can explain :-). Camber would be when viewing an axle from front (or rear), and the tires are tilted in at the bottom, like this \ /? Caster is when the tires (toward the tongue of trailer) would be narrower, compared to the rear measurement. Hard to explain, wish I had a camera. Before I hang axles, I measure then and have found they have both camber and caster. I have noticed really light axles (1lb capacity) sometimes have no caster. All of the 3500 lb axles I have measured have camber and caster?

You are describing toe, not caster. Toe is the difference between the front and back of the tires, camber is the angle that the tire sits compared to vertical. Caster is a measurement for steer axles only. It is the angle from the lower ball joint to the upper ball joint from vertical along the length of the vehicle. I am not sure on the toe of a trailer axle though.

5200# and 6000# axles use the same beam. If you use 6 lugs hubs, you have a 5200# axle and with 8 lugs, you have a 6000# axle. the 7000# axles use a larger beam.

You guys got me curious, so I called a source I purchase axles from. He says some manufactures have camber and caster, and some don't. He says toe and caster are the same.

So I'm guessing that if I had an axle with toe on it I would want it to have toe in, and i would want that for both front and rear axles? I'm also guessing this toe in is very slight.

-Wayne

All I can advise is--yeah put the toe in (front). When measuring the toe- it isn't much. I think maybe 1/4 at most on the ones I have checked (measuring tire to tire).

I've been making a few basic layout drawings to help me visualize different designs. The idea is to decide on a layout, then detail the drawings with cross-members, material selections, etc. I've got a few versions, but here's what I'm liking best so far. The suspension is attached to the tongue and the bed lays on that. There are wheel pockets for the truck and the tongue rails are narrow enough to fit between the tires of the truck. Bed is about 27" high (28" trailer tires) and pockets about 6" lower. Deck is 96" wide x 16'. Max width at the tires is 98".

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=205678&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=205677&stc=1


The tilt here is only partially effective. The height of the bed doesn't allow it to tilt all the way to the ground unless it's pointed up at a rediculous angle. A side view of the above shows the back of the bed about a foot off the ground.

The other type of tilt I've seen is a little different. The suspension is tied to the deck and the tongue hinges in front of the front axle. When tilted, it lifts the front axle off the ground with the deck, basically rotating around the rear axle.

This has the advantage of keeping the bed 4" - 6" lower as the tongue rails stop in front of the axle instead of having to go over them. Also, the tilt is more effective being able to reach the ground. This type doesn't seem as sturdy though, so more beef will need to be built into the bed. Think it's a big deal? I'm working on a version drawing like this as well.

About the deck height. It's about 27" as-is with about 5" of space between the tongue rails and the axle tubes. I like the height as it won't drag so much over curbs, over bad roads, pulling into gas stations, etc. Is that height noticibly worse towing though than say an 18" - 20" deck of a 'normal' hauler?




--Dan

Also, I've seen reference to Unistrut for tie-downs but can't really find any info specific to trailers. It's a rail of steel you run down each side of the trailer that you can put anchors into anywhere along it.

Anybody know what to use for a trailer like this? Unistrut seems to be used for everything from trailer tie-downs to holding up shelving. Just need to know what size/type to look for that'll hold the load on a 7k - 10k trailer.

--Dan

Also, I've seen reference to Unistrut for tie-downs but can't really find any info specific to trailers. It's a rail of steel you run down each side of the trailer that you can put anchors into anywhere along it.

Anybody know what to use for a trailer like this? Unistrut seems to be used for everything from trailer tie-downs to holding up shelving. Just need to know what size/type to look for that'll hold the load on a 7k - 10k trailer.

--Dan

I don't know about Unistrut but you might check out E-tracks. A buddy of mine uses them on his trailer with wheel harnesses. Here's a link: E-tracks (http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=E&Category_Code=ET)

Etracks will fill with sand and dirt. Not my favorite. They work, but you will have to stay on top of the cleaning of the tracks.

-Wayne

Here is what I did.

I built a 16 Foot trailer with a 4 foot tongue and it tows great and straight..

I did not do the norm.. I used 4x4 1/4" Angle Iron .. which with a wood deck put me right at 2000lbs..

As for Tires YES do get Trailer Tires :)

As for Tool Boxes I have towed with added weight on front of my trailer and have seen no really problems at all. But yuo may have to put your rig a little farther back to adjust weight

oh ya here is a link to my trailer build up
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=300188

I will be updating soon with new winch pics and tool boxes being added

I think I want a tilt more than a drop-deck. I can fit a 100" wide axle through my RV gate with a couple inches to spare and I should be able to fit an 80" deck between the tires with an inch to spare on each side. That's still wide enough to fit my rig.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=206997&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=206998&stc=1


From the materials list, I'm looking at about 850 lbs for the chassis (estimating 500 for the axles, wheels, tires and springs) and 980 lbs for the deck with x2 lumber. Plus another 3 - 4 hundred for more cross-members, a jack, tilt mechanism, coupler, etc.


Can also do a "convertible" :) If I don't get the deck built right away, and/or make it removable, the bare chassis fit's my truck's width and wheelbase. I figure I could drive up and over the trailer axles and have the front axle drop into a carriage at the front that I could cinch the axle down into. Then use straps front and back on the body.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=206999&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=207000&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=207001&stc=1


--Dan

Progress?

Progress?

I'm not quite to the point of being able to start buying parts and steel, so I'm still plugging away on the design. Here's a couple AVI's of the tilt/rollback deck:

http://www.houlster.com/trailer/images/trailer.avi (800k)
http://www.houlster.com/trailer/images/trailer2.avi (500k)

It's ram operated and the links are angled to give lateral stability when tilted (they'll have additional braces between them). I'm still figuring out the cost and weight of the tilt mechanism. It's a 15' deck and I added a 16" tail to the end of it to help reach the ground when tilted.

They're not drawn in yet, but the idea is to have 2 rollers at the back of the tongue/frame. The deck will lay flat on the frame rails, but as soon as it starts to tilt up will contact the rollers at the back to roll on/off the frame.

--Dan

www.tufindustries.com. Good plans at a reasonable price. Mine is in the customer built section. 4 years with no problems other than crappy Carlisle D tires. Get E's right off the bat.

Wow.. Getting fancy. Was working on my Solidworks skills last night, i still have a lot to learn!!!

Looks big and heavy doing things that way. You will basically have to have a frame for the trailer section, and another for the deck section. That will add up to more money, and weight. I think that is the nice feature of the "A" frame tilts.

You really think you need a power lift on this? You planning of towing dead vehicles alot? You consider just a teeter totter method where it tilts based on the vehicle weight on the ramp? You could slap some shocks on it to slow things down a bit...

Seems a over designed for hauling a trail rig around, but maybe you have other plans for it?

Probably place an order for my axles today even though I have not finished the design. Just running out of time, and the axles will take a while to get. Tried to find some local, but not having much luck.

-Wayne

I will try to get some pics of a tilt trailer they sell here in NC..

it is very nice and easy to use.. it does not use a hyrdo ram or anything it has rollers... so when you stop you get out push a button that locks the trailer tires and you take out a pin and then drive forward by doing this the tires stay in place and the trail tilts.. it is a very cool trailer...

Very hard to explain but I will do my best to get pics this weekend

I will try to get some pics of a tilt trailer they sell here in NC..

it is very nice and easy to use.. it does not use a hyrdo ram or anything it has rollers... so when you stop you get out push a button that locks the trailer tires and you take out a pin and then drive forward by doing this the tires stay in place and the trail tilts.. it is a very cool trailer...

Very hard to explain but I will do my best to get pics this weekend

There's a few picks of the trailer that I built HERE (http://members.shaw.ca/hackers/trailer.html) and more details HERE (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366664&highlight=trailer)

Looks big and heavy doing things that way. You will basically have to have a frame for the trailer section, and another for the deck section. That will add up to more money, and weight.


Yep. I tried to add it up and for the powered hydraulics, links, hose, hardware, etc., it's looking like about 600 - 700 lbs and $800 - $1000 additional expense. That's more than I want to deal with.



You really think you need a power lift on this? You planning of towing dead vehicles alot? You consider just a teeter totter method where it tilts based on the vehicle weight on the ramp? You could slap some shocks on it to slow things down a bit...


I don't have plans other than towing the Amigo, but if I'm gonna spend this kind of time and money on a trailer, I may as well make it work universally as well. Right now, all it's costing me is time playing around with SolidWorks which is kinda fun.

That said, I've spent the last week or so on another type. A rollback that doesn't use hydraulics or links. Benefit here is I get an even shallower angle on the deck without the cost or weight of the hydraulics. I kinda based it off how Texas Rollback's (http://www.texasrollback.net) trailer works.

The wheel carriage has a series of rollers on it that run in tracks on the deck. I can put in adustable stops as well so I can adjust tongue weight practically infinitely as well if needed. You lock the trailer brakes, pull a few locking pins and back the tow vehicle up till the deck touches down.

http://www.houlster.com/trailer/images/rollback.gif

I also added stake pockets around this one and will add in lockable storage in the triangle over the tongue for straps, chains, etc.

http://www.houlster.com/trailer/images/rollback1.jpg

http://www.houlster.com/trailer/images/rollback2.jpg

--Dan

I will try to get some pics of a tilt trailer they sell here in NC..


It sounds a lot like the Texas Rollback I just posted about above. This is just how the current design I'm working on will work.

It really seems like a cool design. Low angle-tilt makes it useful for cars as well, adjustable wheel carriage means tongue weight is infinitely adjustable if needed and it's comparativley light-weight and inexpensive compared to the powered tilt version I drew up previously.

--Dan

Yep. I tried to add it up and for the powered hydraulics, links, hose, hardware, etc., it's looking like about 600 - 700 lbs and $800 - $1000 additional expense. That's more than I want to deal with.





I don't have plans other than towing the Amigo, but if I'm gonna spend this kind of time and money on a trailer, I may as well make it work universally as well. Right now, all it's costing me is time playing around with SolidWorks which is kinda fun.

That said, I've spent the last week or so on another type. A rollback that doesn't use hydraulics or links. Benefit here is I get an even shallower angle on the deck without the cost or weight of the hydraulics. I kinda based it off how Texas Rollback's (http://www.texasrollback.net) trailer works.

The wheel carriage has a series of rollers on it that run in tracks on the deck. I can put in adustable stops as well so I can adjust tongue weight practically infinitely as well if needed. You lock the trailer brakes, pull a few locking pins and back the tow vehicle up till the deck touches down.

http://www.houlster.com/trailer/images/rollback.gif

I also added stake pockets around this one and will add in lockable storage in the triangle over the tongue for straps, chains, etc.

http://www.houlster.com/trailer/images/rollback1.jpg

http://www.houlster.com/trailer/images/rollback2.jpg

--Dan

I was going to do my trailer the same as this, but ran out of time. I was going to mount my spring hangers on heavy angle iron lined with teflon so it would slide easy, then either lock the trailer brakes and slide the deck back, or even use a boat winch to slide the axles. Oh well....next trailer.

Ok, take a look:

http://www.houlster.com/trailer/images/deck.gif

This is the deck for the rollback posted above. The weight for the frame as seen is 875 lbs and full up trailer is around 2000 lbs.

I'm looking for opinions on how much steel I need in the deck. I ended up up-sizing the main rails, but would like to cut some lbs out if I can. I'm hoping someone with more experience with trailers might have an idea of what's "strong" enough. All of these are box tubing. No angle, I or channel.

The 3 main rails and angled neck braces are 4 x 3 x 1/8
The pivoting tongue is 3 x 3 x 1/4 (the dot out front is where the ball coupler will sit)
The cross members (12 on 16" centers) are 2 x 2 x .090
The decking on the tail is 3/16
Side straps and pockets are all 1/4"
Decking is 2 x

In addition to this, I still need to add strips of C-channel along the bottom of the main rails. The channels will act as tracts for the rollers going into the wheel carriage. This is *not* in the drawing above.

Is this over-kill? Or still not enough? Considering that the C-channel and the 1/4" side plates will stiffen the main rails and give plenty of thickness on the bottom where the weight sits on the rollers, is it safe to go smaller? Say, 3.5 x 2.5? Or maybe with thinner material? .090 instead of .125?

And, just to be clear, I am using 5k axles for the extra beef and bigger brakes, but won't be towing that kind of weight. Figuring 2k for the trailer, I expect to tow about 6k - 6.5k normal, probably 7.5k max if I have the truck really loaded up, spares, toolbox, etc, or towing a fullsize for any reason.

Fire away :flipoff2:

--Dan

Take a look at how I did my tounge. The way i did mine would work for you, and would be stronger and lighter. 2x4x0.188 is good for the main rails, and 3x 1/4" angle for the xmembers. Angle iron for x members works way better than box tube, in my opinion. Way easier to screw your decking down, or add eye bolts later.

You really don't gain anything with that rail down the center of the trailer, and the trailer will be hard to build and keep squared while welding. Unless, of course you have other reasons for it.

I think trailer decks tend to have cross beams a bit wider apart. Rather then every 16" I think most I have seen are more in the neighborhood of every 24" to 48". Seems more related to the decking material then anything.

I'm no expert!

-Wayne

I put mine at 16". I was going to go 12" but when it was all laid out it looked like just too much. My xmembers are 2.5" x 3/16" angle, and they hold up good; very little flex. If i did it again, however, I'd use 3" angle, because of the loads i'm hauling.

Dan, any progress?

-Wayne

hey fellows let's keep this goin.plan on building mine soon.need all tha help i can get.i might have a friend that has an original rollback. he might let me borrow it and get some measurements off of it.we'll see how it goes.