Has anybody installed a downey fuel injection kit on a 2f? Does it work good, easy to install, worth the money, will it pass smog?

Tom Quinn has a pretty good write-up on the conversion.
Tom Quinn's TBI site (http://www.tomquinn.com/lc/2f_fi/index.html)

Unfortunately the Downey kit is not CARB approved, therefore if your cruiser is not smog exempt in California you are out of luck. :mad:

I think Mike Smythe (spaceghost) is in the developmental stages of producing the adapter. I'd wait, if it is anywhere near the quality of his sm420 adapter it'll be bitchin'. I have the EPROM burner Tom Quinn talks of to burn the EPROM with the proper info, which you can get from Chet Wagner(hangs out on the LCML). It's a pretty straight forward deal, just understand that the donor 4.3L v-6 is much different in fuel and spark demands than the 2F, so unless you get the EPROM reprogrammed you will be running like shit and complaining about the swap like many others who have done it. One reccomendation is to run a better alternator, as the stock Toyota will be taxed at lower RPM's in comparison to newer alternators. CS130 series are pretty simple conversion, and are pretty easy to wire, if you have questions on wiring, check www.alternatorparts.com under cs130 repair...

HTH

Thanks for the kind words there cruiserbrett!

I am in fact working on an adapter for the tbi to f/2f manifolds. I have one on my cruiser now and aside from the non stock air cleaner I am very happy. I'll touch on this somewhat here and follow this thread for input.

Anyone considering this swap has to make some decisions, and probably some compromises. I won't go into the many different types of injection here, but focus on the common TBI from the GM 4.3 v6's.

First how much electronic engine control do you want? The GM version controls the ignition and the fuel delivery. This requires a little more in the way of sensors and programming. This is what Downey is doing, and with the help of Chet may actually get it right.

An alternative (and the way I went for now) is to have the ecm control only the TBI or fuel delivery. Using common GM parts and and operating in Closed Loop mode you will get huge improvements in cold starts, off camber driveability, and in my case a nice increase in useable power.

So that is one decision.

Additionally any conversion has compromises. I really want to use my stock airbox, but this will take some creative mods to do. I am near the point of accepting some other alternative, like a 14" round x 3" tall open element on a custom base. The base needs to be offset a bunch to clear the booster/master. Today I have a hokey 6" round thing.

One snag I encountered was the addition of the second fluid temp sensor. The 2F has a second boss for this, used in the emission computer circuit of some models. Well the adapter is only 3/4" and prohibits the use of this boss. I installed the GM sensor in the lower thermostat housing, where it reads the water temp in the block. Works fine, I just don't know which years had the vacuum valves there that can be replaced.

Another item that has to be resolved, Cruiser by Cruiser is accelerator linkage/cables. I had a non usa carb which requires a stock cable. It was plenty long enough to use, but the cable needed an attachment point or mount. On my Cruiser this was easy, I have the F intake from my original motor and it has 4 bosses on the side for the original oil filter. I simple made a bracket that mounts there and positions the cable. No biggie for me, but other will have to purchase this cable or have a custom one made. The advantage was the 4 bosses on the intake.

The next prototype adapter will have a cable mount incorporated into it. Will likely have a second piece, a clamp that will attach to the adapter. It is coming soon, and it's not that hard to do, just gotta get on the very busy machines to do it.

Another decision that must be made is whether to buy a kit with all new sensors, throttle body, harness and all the stuff, or to make a trip to the junkyard and pull this stuff yourself and build your own kit. Either will work, but I'm not convinced the junkyard method will save enough money to make it the best choice. Consider a few things and for each it is different, what is you time worth (most of us underestimate this and it's not only what you make an hour working), what is the likely hood that the used parts are either good now or will fail in the near future, and are you capable of the work needed, and able to manage the frustration as you sort it out?

I have an 89 astro van with all the goodies. I spent at least 10 hours (maybe I'm slow) pulling all the stuff off to do the conversion myself. It would have been at least 5 more to trim and mate the harness to my Cruiser. When I called the local junkyards they wanted $500 for the stuff I pulled.

I have all the stuff in a box if somebody else wants to pursue this project, make me an offer. Why? Because I made a phone call and decided that it would have been cheaper and more efficient for me to buy the kit and use my adapter. Yes I get satisfaction from making stuff work, but wheeling is much more fun!

I called Howell Fuel Injection, and yes this is a plug for which I get nothing in return. They provided all the parts (except ecm and adapter) for a very reasonable price, and everything was new. I installed it in a day taking my time, making sure all was tidy and clean. This included an eprom calibrated for the Cruiser. I did not incorporate the ignition control in to my setup. It can be done, with a few additional parts and I may someday.

I did however replace the non usa points distributor with a DUI unit. This combination with my ecm and adapter cost about $1500. The Distributor was $400 of this. From what I understand this is about what it will cost to go Downey and the junkyard to get Fuel Injection.

WOW, I didn't expect to sit here and go into this much detail, but since I have, I hope someone finds it useful. If anyone is interested in the adapter which is hoped to be available by the end of March, you should contact me (msmythe@iei.net) and let me know.

Howell Fuel Injection (http://www.howell-efi.com)

Spaceghost,

Cool stuff. One thing I was looking at was to make a new thermostat housing so I could fit in the larger GM coolant sensor. Ahem, Milling machine comes in handy for that sort of stuff.

When building up a harness, I hate tracking down those little connectors. Thankfully a few Autozone & Pepboys stores carry those little Conduct-tite electrical connectors. Expensive, but oh so nice not have have to hassle with an old harness. Then again you get enough of those and that Painless Wiring TPI harness looks better all the time!

GM CTS - Coolant Temperature Sensor #85100 ($10 Pepboys)
(note fits WELLS SU109 $8 Autozone)

GM MAT - Manifold Air Temp Sensor Socket #85110 ($12 Pepboys)
(note fits WELLS SU107)

GM Idle Air Controller Socket (IAC) #85112 ($15 Autozone)
(these are the bigger weather pack style arranged as 2x2 for a total of four connections)


FUTURE -- For IGNITION CONTROLLER:
'90 GM Camero RS 305 Ignition Module (external style with 8 leads, built in limp home mode) WELLS DR140 ($26 Autozone) connectors:
2 lead (B C) socket #85100 (same at CTS)
4 lead (GBRE) socket #85135 ($12 Pepboys)
2 spade connector to pickup coil: use 1/8" F spade connectors.
(note: if idle is rough, swap leads and try again!)

Hope that is of help. My PORT INJECTION 2F is still many months away, as I have lots to get done first. :D

Tom :usa:

I am going to go this route, and I'm eagerly awaiting one of Mike's adapters. I've got a couple 4.3L throttle bodies, two computers, and I'm either going to try using a modified FJ60 distributor or I'll bite my knuckle and buy a DUI distributor. I haven't gotten a harness or any of the little parts yet. I think I will probably buy an aftermarket harness.

Mike, is there anyone at Howell you'd recommend I call?

Morgan

Thanks Tom for the input/additions. I think this is going to be a great thread.

I replaced the valve thing (that was broken anyway) with the coolant sensor. If it wasn't the same threads it was very close. Since the housing is so thin, I was reluctant to crank it much. Just enough to seal and all is well.

Morgan, I recommend talking to Troy, he is a hands on guy. Matt (owner) is very busy and defferred to Troy on the tech stuff. Some of you know the purpose of my call was to establish interest in a kit specific to Cruisers. The truth is, the harness and the eprom are the only things different than their Jeep kit, and of course the adapter. This is a lay down for these guys to provide a solid bolt on kit for this community. With the help of some of the pioneers here, a junkyard (meant positively) is going to also be an option for the do it yourselfers. I apologize for the delays in getting the adapter to market, and thanks for the support.

BTW, I failed to mention this earlier, in the kit I got was a C.A.R.B. exempt sticker that had precise instructions for placement. They have gotten the exemption in CA for the earlier 4.2L Jeep. This is huge, Downey may never achieve this, if they even try.

what a great thread, i have been reading up on TBI, and i too am ready to get this going.
if you go the lesser route, can you add the other switches and controls later?
can you make a more or less stand alone unit with the TBI?, similar to the pro jection.

Thanks for the killer responce

4n - just another option-

I recently installed the Holley Pro-Jection kit on my 2f. It is a single-barrel, 300cfm kit for CJ's. The aluminum adapter need some "modification" but other than that, it was a pretty simple install. It runs wayyy better than ever, and does great off-road. It was $720 from Jegs, plus $100 for a throttle cable conversion from Downey.

The ECU is tunable, not closed-loop, and it ONLY controls fuel delivery, not ignition. It is a stand-alone setup. For an additional $100, you can get a closed loop kit, which simply is an o2 sensor, that will fine tune the mixture automatically.

Just another option for ya'

Originally posted by RHINO
what a great thread, i have been reading up on TBI, and i too am ready to get this going.
if you go the lesser route, can you add the other switches and controls later?
can you make a more or less stand alone unit with the TBI?, similar to the pro jection.

Yes you can add the ignition controls later. I was told that the egr valve can be controlled also.

i had the kit from up and over (www.upnover.com), it's basically the same as the downey kit(howell) but they make there own adapter which i thought was better. they have since stopped working with howell and are now working with turbo city. they have a buick v6 distributor they are using that is controlled by the computer. the machine a new dist shaft and use a toyota dist gear and it seems to work much better. i have since sold that 40 and now have a fj-60 and on cold mornings i really wish i had that TBI system again. i would do it again but i'm building a minitruck now.

dave

Originally posted by davefj40
now have a fj-60 and on cold mornings i really wish i had that TBI system again.
dave

A friend of mine has a FJ60 up in Nevada. I explained for cold start: "put in the clutch, foot all they way down on the gas
pedal" crank while counting to 10. Dont let off. Count to 10. Crank for 10. NOW pump the gas pedal 5 times, and crank with the choke pulled out.... fires right up! :D

Ya, her other car is an Accord... which always just fires up. Oh lucky gal, they don't plow the the last 3 miles up to her house!

Ya a simple TBI would be ideal for her cruiser.

Tom :usa:

This is a great thread for those of us who need to keep our stock motors. I have a few questions for those of us who live in CA where FI kits are not smog legal. If you buy the Jeep kit, it comes with a CARB sitcker so will that pass in CA?

If not, how difficult would it be to swap back to the normal carb once every 2 years for out smog inspections? IE, are their any "no going back" modifications or would it just be a matter of removing the TBI and installing the stock smog gear and carb?

Going back would be easy enough, I did it a couple of times while putting mine together.

Someone should ask Howell about the CARB sticker, and I will nect time I talk to them.